Episode 44 - Technology Hacks for the Music Classroom with Debbie Tannenbaum

  I am so excited to have with me today, my friend and colleague, Debbie Tannenbaum, and she is an educator with over 20 years of experience. She's worked both as a classroom teacher and in various grades. I'm going to do that again. She has worked as both a classroom teacher in various grades and as a technology coach.

These experiences have helped her to develop her transform learning framework that she shares as she delivers keynotes, concurrent sessions, workshops, and more around the country. And welcome Debbie. Thank you so much for having me. This is so cool to be on your podcast today. I'm really excited about it.

I'm excited to, you know, learn more about what you do and, um, how you can help music educators. So, why don't you start with a little bit of what is your purpose, um, how did you start, that sort of thing. So, ironically, I started out wanting to be an elementary school French teacher and somehow I've morphed into this.

Um. This is my 25th year in education. The last six years, I've been an elementary school tech coach in northern Virginia. It's a job that I really love because I get to actually work with teachers and help them affect change with students. My primary goal is to make sure that I empower educators and their students to use technology and transformative ways to amplify their students learning.

And so that can take many, many different forms. But the goal of what I'm doing and kind of the last five years of my journey has really been to, you know, that whole idea of being better together, which I know you and I definitely have in common and really trying to reach out so that educators don't feel alone and they have somebody to help them along the way.

So it's not scary. I love it. I love it. And I think that as a teacher, you know, especially for me, an older teacher, I'm very good with technology, but there are a lot of people out there that are not there. They're like afraid to sort of delve into it because they don't have the time. And there, I think there's this fear that they're They're just not sure they're going to be able to do it.

So, um, what are some ways that you can help people to overcome that fear of technology? I think that one of the things is to think about how much technology people are using in their everyday lives. I don't think we think about how much technology influences our everyday lives, but I think about my iPhone wakes me up.

You know, when I go exercise in the morning, I'm using my Fitbit to track it. Like, you know, and going through your day like that is really important. And thinking about how the technology helps you do certain things, you no longer have to worry about whether or not the electricity goes off or your clock battery goes dead because you have a phone that, you know, it's charged and is working, you know, the same thing.

I don't have to like, you know, actually measure the distance of everything when I'm, you know, doing my exercise in the morning, I have technology that helps me do it. And I think that it's the same thing for us as educators. How is that technology going to really help our students in a way that we couldn't do without the tech?

I never tell teachers, Oh, just use technology because you're supposed to use technology. That's a waste of time, right? I really try to root it in the purpose behind it. And what does that technology help our students to do? Because if it's not helping our students to do something, or it's not helping us to teach something, then it's not a good use of the tech.

And so I start small and I'm, I always tell my teachers, let's pick one thing you want to work on. And a lot of times it ends up being things like differentiation or meeting or UDL and meeting the needs of all of our learners. That's a great entry point for tech because there's so many ways that technology can provide.

Differentiation or universal design for learning and so really hooking on something that is pedagogically something they want to work on and then showing how technology those tech tools can help them get there. I love that. And I love the idea of starting small because it doesn't feel so overwhelming that way.

You're, you're starting with just one thing. And so I, I think our, my listeners can think about, okay, what is one way, just one way that I can start using more technology and sort of develop from there. Absolutely. And a lot of times I know I've worked with some of the music teachers in the buildings I've worked at, sometimes it can be as simple as doing stuff with video to start.

I think about, you know, especially during the pandemic, there was a lot of use of flip now, which was known as flip grid, but giving kids the opportunity sometimes to even just watch themselves do things with music to see how, you know, if you're talking about instrumental music, see how they're playing, or if they're singing something to see how listen to themselves and hear their intonation.

You know, and so sometimes something simple like that can be really powerful to give them the opportunity to, you know, reflect on themselves and also then to give each other feedback potentially. And so it doesn't always have to be like, oh, we're making these brand things. It can be something super simple to start and.

You know, especially in the elementary setting, sometimes those simple things are the most meaningful because you're not going to usually have your students bringing all of their computers to the to music class. Right, right. And so really kind of thinking about how am I going to use this really strategically?

Um, you know, are, are we going to use iPads in the class? Or maybe I am going to have the kids bring it. One of the programs I love to use with my students, Wixie, actually has some music templates, which I think is really cool because not all programs have music things. Um, and another program I use called Desmos.

It has some music things in there as well, so you just never know where a tech tool is going to have a link to something that you wouldn't expect. I love that. So tell me more about, um, first of all, Wixie, like what sort of music things are in there? So Wixie has a lot of things where, like, it's using coding to essentially let kids practice playing things in there.

So, like, they can actually, like, click the notes and play things. Um, I haven't explored it that thoroughly, um, but it definitely has a lot of potential. As you know, we're as we're talking, you know, to do to allow kids to explore music, um, even, you know, they can, there's music notes in there. Maybe they could even do some basic composition in there.

Um, so it has a lot of really cool things and it's a super easy program that at least in our school district, everyone pre K to 5 has access to and if your listeners are interested in that, I am more than happy to hook them up with a free year. Oh, that'd be awesome. They can just contact if they contact me or actually I'll give you a form that you can include in the show notes and that way they can get that.

That'd be awesome. That'd be awesome. And so when you say play the notes, so are they using their keyboards and they're playing the notes using their keyboards? Um, I'm actually, as we're talking, gonna try to pull it up on my other screen because I want to speak and not share something that's not true.

Okay. Okay. Absolutely. So I feel like rather than me trying to guess and not guess correctly, let's just do this the right way.

And I can cut out any pauses, of course. Okay. Absolutely. I didn't even think about it until I started talking to you. Um, let me pull that out. Yeah. And if you have like affiliate links or whatever, I'm happy to share those. Okay. Yeah. I mean, they don't give me any money for doing this. I just believe in this company.

So cool. You, you should ask them though. I mean, I have, they don't have the money, but every once in a while they'll pay for other things. So, okay. I have it up now. So, so some of the things that I see is like there, there's sorts with instrument types. They have it so that you can like this one is it's raining, it's pouring play along.

And so you look at the score and you can actually like, like on the keys and play them. Can you hear that? No. Yeah, let me see if I can make it a little louder.

Can you hear that? Okay. Well, if you, um, if you send us the link there, or maybe maybe send us some screenshots or something. Okay. I can absolutely do that. But it's, you know, it lets them play songs in there, um, some of, and they're, like I said, there's a whole, there's a whole section on xylophones in there where they can play a xylophone, um, and there's a treble clef where they can put things.

So lots of really interesting things, you know, playing thing, you know, there's a mute, there's a music keyboard with notes, so it allows them to actually do some practicing using the tool. That's awesome. And tell me, it's really neat that they have that. That is, that's really cool. I love it. Tell me a little bit about the other one that you mentioned.

So the other one I was talking about is called Desmos and Desmos is not just a calculator. A lot of times people just think it is a calculator, but it's actually a lot more. And one of the cool things that Desmos has is they have, it has the ability to use this thing called the poly pad. And I don't know if you've ever heard of like Mathagon.

So Mathagon is linked with this. And basically what happens with this is that It has this thing called a polypad and the polypad actually has all these different types of manipulatives, but it also has things that you can, it also has things you can use, like that are musical as well. So there's a whole section on music where there's a keyboard and there's also some sort of track, something, I guess it must be like a treble clef where, so you can move these things on and actually.

Play them as well. Oh, cool. And it's part of this math program that you might never think would have any of it, but it does have music tools. So it's kind of interesting. So maybe you don't have a keyboard for everybody to practice making something. Well, the, both of these programs would allow your students to use their computer to compose, which is really cool.

That is really cool. That's very cool. You know, one of the things that, um, I want to go back to is the, the whole differentiation. Um, and when you were talking about that, that made me think of, there's a very popular couple of very popular, um, music platforms out there. One is music play online and the other one is quaver and, you know, people have different.

Viewpoints on on both of them. But what I love about both of them is they are able to pull in, you know, eight different ways to teach the same thing with use of technology with use of video with use of animation. You know, all that good stuff that we as music teachers just standing up there. We we can't do that.

You know, we can't We can't differentiate to that point. We don't have, um, instruments of the orchestra, that sort of thing. So, and for someone who doesn't have a xylophone in their classroom, because lots of people don't have, you know, orf instruments, that would be a great option. Yeah, absolutely. And it's just, You know, thinking about giving our kids different ways of learning, you know, as, as you were just talking, I was thinking, you know, a lot of times we just don't think like that about the way that we can use the technology.

Like, another thing that came to my mind as we were just talking is like using something like an Ed puzzles so that they could actually do with interactive video lesson. Where maybe you're showing them how to do something and then they're getting a chance to try it. And a lot of these platforms allow you to incorporate video.

And so you can, rather than you being the one standing in front, they can actually then control the speed of what they want and they can watch it again. And so really giving them those types of opportunities can be really, really important. You know, we really want to be that facilitator and not the stage, stage on the stage, and that can be hard.

But if we really want to get that interaction right now, students are increasingly disengaged in school. No matter what the topic is, we have to get them involved. And that's one of the things that's so wonderful about all of the related arts is that it's we need to, they can get involved. Um, and so this is just another way to get them even further involved.

Right, right. And if you've got, I mean, I had a first grader last week that said to me, I'm, I'm just not a music. What's that? Can you say that one more time? You cut out. Oh yeah, I know we're having a little bit of a, um, an internet problem. I'm not sure why I had a first grader like last week that was like, you know, I'm really not a music guy.

I just don't, I don't like music. You know, it was so funny. He was like, I'm not a music guy. And. It made me think like for those kiddos, technology is really something that can grab them, you know, and even if they're not a music person, it can grab them in a way that absolutely helps them to be a music person, right?

Or maybe creating, like, I know I'm not an artist, but I can really create cool things with the computer. Maybe they can create cool music using it using technology. You know, it's just another way of, you know, hitting those same learning objectives. That makes sense. So one of the other things that I like about technology is the time saving element of it.

Absolutely. I use Google Docs and Google Forms and Google Sheets and all the Google. Um, and, and I know a lot of teachers do as well. Not sure if music teachers quite as much, but can you speak to what would be some ways that we as educators can save time through technology? Absolutely. Well, I think that there's a lot of different ways of looking at it, you know, making sure that, like, you're just, you know, if you wanted to get some sort of assessment, there's lots of ways you could use technology to gather that data rather quickly.

I had mentioned Edpuzzle. Edpuzzle allows you to create. Videos and then have interactive questions in them, and then it grades it for you with AI, even with the open ended questions now, which is amazing. And even in something like Edpuzzle, you can put your voice in, or the students can put their voices in, so they can even do it orally, not just having to use text.

So that's a great example, but just. The idea of if you had to go around and watch every kid do a skill, it's going to take you a long time, and there are definitely tech tools that will help you with that and make you more efficient. Make it so that you're not having to take piles of papers home, but instead you're able to actually watch your students and give them feedback and really get that interaction with them.

I think those are some of the really, the big ones, but also like you mentioned. Making sure that, like, maybe one of my students needs to read something. Another one of my students needs a video. Maybe one of them needs a podcast. Well, I can make sure that I'm meeting all their needs by doing that. And I think that a lot of times we don't think about that necessarily.

Like, oh, well, I'm just using technology for a spreadsheet. And I guess a spreadsheet can be helpful and a gradebook can be helpful. But it's helping us to be more efficient. And our goal is we need to help our students understand how to navigate what they're learning about. Efficiently and also productively.

And so when we're using technology, it's helping them do that. We're trying, we're making it so that they aren't just limited by, Oh, I can only do it this way, but we're really building in so that they can interact with content multiple ways and also perform content multiple ways. Wow. That's, that's a great point.

Um, so a lot of music teachers use this. a way of teaching the recorder where, um, they give out belts like, like karate belts and they have to test their students. So I'm wondering, usually what they, what you do is you, and I say they, because I'm not teaching third, fourth, fifth grade this year, I'm teaching little ones.

So I don't have to do it this year, but, um, They, in order to, you know, for them to get the karate belts, they have to, um, play a song or have a certain skill on the recorder. So would that be something so that you didn't have to listen to each individual child while you were doing your class? Would that be something you could use Edpuzzle for?

Absolutely. So how would that work? Well, I wouldn't use Edpuzzle for that. I would probably use something more like a flip with that where you could. Have a moderated topic and then the kids could submit it to you and then you could just go through all of them and they wouldn't necessarily get to see each other's unless you wanted them to give each other feedback, but something like that would be great.

I mean, even the program I mentioned earlier, Wixie kids can create videos of themselves doing things in there. So lots of different options. Ed puzzles more for like taking a video that's already made and making it interactive. So it could be of somebody playing the reporter and then them giving that person feedback.

Or it could be that, you know, techniques of how do you play the recorder and you're assessing and asking them questions as they're watching the video to make sure that they're focused. Okay. So for example, if I was trying to, um, I, I have this one, uh, Jake Shimabukuro, who I, um, I always put on as like the expert ukulele player before my kids play the ukulele and I could have him playing on the video and then they could make comments on like, for example, his technique and what they notice about the way his hand is being held and all that kind of stuff.

Yeah, you could put like questions and include questions and say, like, what did you notice about this? What are some, you know, maybe what do you wonder about this? And then they can, they can write those answers in and you get all that data from them. I love it. And versus, I mean, so many times we put kids in front of a video and half of them are paying attention and half aren't this way, you know, you can make it so it doesn't skip.

You can really interact with it. That's awesome. And you, I think also music teachers are all always looking for center ideas because, you know, it's one chance where we don't have to stand in front of the classroom and do our song and dance. You know, because, you know, we don't have a lot of those kinds of opportunities.

So people are always like, how do I get centers into my classroom? So I'm, my brain is going 80 miles an hour, trying to go, okay, all these different center ideas that you could do. Yeah. And there's so many things that, you know, and just with those three tools that we've talked about today, there's so many different ways that you can.

To use them to really create things that are more, you know, interactive for your students because you only see your students. So, so much each week, right? And yet you're still expected to take a grade. So you want to get the biggest, you know, bang for your buck when it comes to what you're doing with them.

Exactly. Exactly. So what would you, I just lost my train of thought. Uh, I can't remember what I was going to ask you.

Where would you suggest if somebody knows a little bit about technology, um, but not too much, how would you suggest what sort of resources, like what, where could they go to search for resources for music teachers? Um, well, resources for music teachers, um, I haven't seen a whole lot that's actually, nevermind.

I, I haven't seen a whole lot that's really Based on elementary music teachers. I do know that there's, um, a couple people who do stuff with music. Um, and I can't remember.

I lost you brought her last name. I know, I don't know why my connection is so bad tonight. I'm trying to remember the name of the, I know that there's somebody and I just can't remember her name. I know it's Teresa something and I just don't remember her last name right now. That's all right. That's it.

No, not a problem. Not a problem. You can. But as far as technology resources in general, I have a ton of resources on my website, um, so that's a great place to look, tannenbaumtech. com. Say that again because you cut out. Okay. As far as resources for technology in general, there's a lot of really great resources on my website, tannenbaumtech.

com. I've been blogging on my website since 2019, so you'll never know what you could find that would be helpful. Um, I'm also more than willing to, um, you know, meet up with teachers and help them as well. I, you know, I do provide PD to teachers, both inside of my school and outside of my school. Um, but really just, like I said, start small.

Like, my feeling is start with that video part and just explore maybe 1 tool that you could use for video. Don't make.

Start simple if you're you, you cut out. Sorry, you cut out again. I'm sorry. That's all right. You said start small and then it kind of cut out. Okay, just start small, maybe starting with video or maybe try a program that has one of those programs I mentioned that has some of those music things. Don't make it complicated.

Think about a challenge you're having. Maybe your challenge is that you can't listen to all your kids playing the recorder in class. You just don't have enough time. Then maybe using something like Flip is beneficial for you because then you can watch your students and give them feedback and then the next day they can listen to your feedback.

So sometimes those simple things are the most meaningful. You do not need to make it complicated and don't feel like you have to do everything. This is something I've been working on for the past. I've been a teacher for 25 years and I got my master's in technology 21 years ago. So this is something I've been working on for a long time.

You're not going to get it all at once. The goal is start small and build up, get really good at what the tools that you're using, and then decide if you're ready to add on another tool. But the goal should be find somebody else who might maybe another music teacher who's interested in exploring with you.

Don't feel like you have to do this alone because when you feel like you're doing something alone, it can be really frustrating, but we all have issues when we're using technology. I w you know, I was doing a session today and you know, we had a glitch. It's okay. Mistake. Life isn't perfect. Mistakes happen.

Exactly. Exactly. I love that you said that. And I love that you said. Um, you know, find a buddy to to work with you. I think that's a great idea. You know, find somebody in your school who's also interested in exploring technology, even if it's not another music teacher. It doesn't have to be another music teacher, you know, so absolutely.

And like I said. Feel free to reach out to me. This is something I love watching and helping others figure these things out. And it doesn't need to be complicated. And that's one of the things when I show teachers and I'm like showing them how to do things, I never, I'm always like, we're just gonna do this and it's gonna help you do that.

Mm-Hmm, . And then once they see that like, well, maybe I could do this too. Okay. I can help you with that. It's that organic process that really makes a difference. Mm hmm. Mm hmm. Yeah, I know for me, when I start exploring a new piece of technology or a new platform or whatever, it, it kind of gives you new ideas.

You know, you start with something basic and then, you know, you're piggybacking off of that and, and you're, you know, you're developing other ideas based on what you've started out with. Yeah, absolutely. Just keep building on to those things and, you know, don't be afraid to try something, you know, new and your students, they're used to trying new things and say to them.

I'm trying something new. I'm taking a risk because a lot of times teachers are afraid of saying those things. But if our students don't see us modeling those things, then they don't think we do those things. That is so true. And, and it really is good for us as teachers to be in that situation where we don't know what we're doing, but it's also good for the students to see us in that situation because, like you said, I mean, some of them don't even know we, we live out of the school, you know, they're like, Oh, you must sleep at the school.

Why are you at the store? You know, that kind of thing. So, um, Yeah. Yeah. I do think it's really good for them to see us being human and making mistakes. And maybe they can guide us in some of these technology things, you know? Absolutely. It's definitely something that you can do as you know, but don't be afraid to do those things because a lot of times I feel like, well, you know, especially related arts teachers, Sterling and specialists are like, well, these things don't apply to me.

These are for classroom teachers. Well, there's ways to make. All of these tools apply, and maybe they're not going to apply in every situation, but there are ways. So don't be afraid to try something new. I love that. I love that. Yeah, we have, um, in my school, uh, the librarian has, like, all the little robot guys.

And so, oh, dash and dots. Okay. What's that? Are they dash and dot robots or? Uh, there's that one. I can't remember. There's a couple different kinds. Okay. So I've gone in before and been like, okay. I'm dying to use these in my classroom. What can you suggest? So we'll just kind of go down the rabbit hole and go, okay, well, maybe we can do this or that, you know?

So what else would you like my listeners to know that we haven't talked about yet? Hmm. Let me think. Um. In addition to my website, I also have a book out if you're interested in checking that out. I forgot to mention that. Um, so it's called Transform Techie Notes to Make Learning Sticky. Um, it's a great place to get started.

It shares my journey getting involved in technology. Um, besides that, I'm trying to think. Um,

I think we've really kind of covered it all. Cool. Um, maybe, and I'll put this towards the beginning, maybe tell us a little bit about your journey into, uh, technology. Sure. So, my first year of teaching, I was lucky enough to have a really great computer lab teacher. And one of the things that we ended up doing in the computer lab was we were using Scholastic.

com. And so, we were doing a project called the Trailblazers Hall of Fame for African American History Month. And when I started using it with my students, I started noticing that students who were never engaged in anything started to get engaged in this. And so they would have to pick 1 of the people.

Who was on the website, they would research and then they had to write a nomination that was published on scholastic. com website with just their first name, no pictures or anything. And then part of it was also that they did what they considered a chat or a virtual chat with Colin Powell. So they could submit questions for that as well.

And I watched my students engaged in a way that I had never, ever seen before. They were motivated. They were excited. And they were doing things that I couldn't imagine kids were coming in and being like, well, I spent extra time doing this at home because they were so excited about it. Wow. So I started doing more stuff with that website, Scholastic.

com. And as I started doing that. I, at that point, you know, it was my first year teaching and I was like, I wondered what else I could do. And, um, I ended up looking into a master's program at John Hopkins University and getting my master's in technology for educators. And once you become somebody who's known as being good at tech, people think you're good at all tech.

True. Um, so over the last few years, the last couple of years, you know, 20 years. I've just really, you know, it's something that I've just really taken to. I joke that I wanted to be an elementary school French teacher and to me, technology is like a language and I'm just teaching them the language of how to use it.

And it's changed a lot over the years. When I got my master's, things were very different than they are now, but we're still doing the same essential purpose. We're using the technology to help our students learn in different ways and help them, you know, access content. In a different way. And so we're still doing, and it's still building in that motivation.

And so now we might be able to do more sophisticated things that we could do back then. But it's still building that those same ideas in. Yeah. Yeah. I love that. And how exciting that. Did I lose you again? Like the, Oh, I'm okay. Are you okay? Can you hear me now? Okay. Okay. Yeah. Um, how exciting that you were able to engage them in a whole new way and especially as a first year teacher to, you know, really find something that's going to grab their attention.

That's incredible. I just got really lucky that I had somebody there who was who, you know, helped me find things and, you know, really encouraged me and You know, since then, a lot of that's taken a life of its own. I was always really involved in technology. And then back in 2017, I got involved in social media, but I had my master's back in 2002, I had 15 years of teaching without social media at all.

And then social media has even transformed me even more because it's connected me to other educators. Um, and I learned from other educators. Most of the things I do now would have never happened if it hadn't have been for my connections. And I, that's why I think it's so wonderful that you have your community where music educators can connect because Thank you.

A singleton in a building can be really lonely. For sure. For sure. Yeah, I, I totally agree with that. Where can people get in touch with you? What's the best way to get in touch with you? The best way is to find me on any social media, Tannenbaum Tech. You can also email me at debbie at tannenbaumtech. com.

My website's Tannenbaum Tech. I try to make it really easy. Yeah, which is great. Awesome. Well, I so appreciate your time. I know you're a very busy person and I really appreciate your time and I'm excited for this episode to come out. Thank you so much for having me. It made me think of things in a different way, so it actually helped me do some learning and reflecting, too.

Oh, good. Glad to hear that.