April 21, 2025
Episode 27: Leadership Found Me: My Journey from Classroom Teacher to Building Principal!
Fan Mail! Becoming a principal wasn't on my radar when I was happily teaching math and coaching sports. Someone else spotted my leadership potential before I did—a pivotal moment that set me on an unexpected path to school administration. My journey from classroom teacher to high school principal wasn't straightforward or easy. It required multiple graduate degrees, mentorship from experienced administrators, and a combined total of 25 interview attempts before landing my dream role. Through...
Becoming a principal wasn't on my radar when I was happily teaching math and coaching sports. Someone else spotted my leadership potential before I did—a pivotal moment that set me on an unexpected path to school administration.
My journey from classroom teacher to high school principal wasn't straightforward or easy. It required multiple graduate degrees, mentorship from experienced administrators, and a combined total of 25 interview attempts before landing my dream role. Through each rejection, I refined my approach and learned valuable lessons about educational leadership that I'm passionate about sharing with aspiring administrators.
This deeply personal episode pulls back the curtain on the challenges of transitioning into school leadership. I detail how my perspective on principalship transformed when I witnessed a leader who showed up in classrooms to support rather than criticize. I explain how participation in leadership academies and deliberate resume-building experiences prepared me for administrative roles, even when the path wasn't clear.
The turning point came when a superintendent told me I was "interviewing for the wrong job" because I answered questions like a principal, not an assistant principal. This revelation changed my entire approach to job searching and helped me recognize where my leadership style truly belonged.
For those considering educational leadership, I offer eleven practical strategies developed through my experiences—from wearing school colors to interviews to creating comprehensive transition plans that demonstrate your vision. Most importantly, I emphasize authenticity throughout the process, as school communities are searching for leaders who align with their values and culture.
Whether you're contemplating your first leadership position or looking to advance in educational administration, this episode provides honest insights into finding your place as a school leader. The journey may not be easy, but for those called to make a broader impact in education, it's immensely rewarding.
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01:57 - Journey to the Principal's Office
04:09 - Living My Teaching Dream
08:38 - Mentors Who Shaped My Path
16:21 - The Interview Rollercoaster
19:04 - 11 Tips for Aspiring Principals
30:00 - Being Authentic as a Leader
WEBVTT
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When do you know it's time to step into the principal role?
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For me it wasn't a lightning bolt moment.
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I was living the dream teaching math, coaching football and wrestling, working with amazing students.
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The principalship wasn't even on my radar, but someone saw something in me that I didn't see in myself and that changed everything.
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Today I want to tell you a story how I went from teacher and coach to principal and how 25 interviews and a couple of key mentors and a whole lot of learning shaped who I am today as a leader.
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If you're trying to land your first principal role, today's episode is for you.
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Welcome back, everybody, for another episode of Educational Leadership Podcast.
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In today's episode it is deeply personal.
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I want to take you on a journey, my journey into school leadership, from coaching on the field to leading in a school building.
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I've experienced a lot of bumps, rejections and pivotal moments that eventually landed me my dream role as the principal of Hastings High School.
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Let's be real I never wanted to be a principal.
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I was happy in the classroom.
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I loved teaching math and coaching football, wrestling.
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Happy in the classroom, I loved teaching math and coaching football, wrestling and track.
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I was living my best life in education.
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But something happened early on that planted a seed.
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It started with my wife Heather's grandpa, Don Farley.
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He was a longtime educator, a respected principal and a legendary football coach.
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During one of our many chats he looked at me and said you should be a principal someday.
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I laughed.
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I told him that I wasn't me, but he was serious.
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He said you're meant to make a bigger impact.
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At the time I didn't believe him, but something stuck.
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So I, almost on a whim, I enrolled into my master's program for educational administration, Just to have it in my back pocket.
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Little did I know that decision would change the course of my life.
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While working on my admin degree, I got to work with a principal named Mr Mike Troxel at Hersey Public Schools.
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He did something I never experienced before.
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He just showed up in my classroom.
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And when he showed up in my classroom I was like what the heck are you doing?
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Is there something wrong?
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Do you need something?
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And he goes nah, I'm just here just to hang out, see what's going on.
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I just want to watch you teach.
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And that made me realize something that being a principal isn't about barking orders.
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It's about supporting teachers, encouraging growth, building relationships.
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That shifts something in me.
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I did my internship under Mr Troxel and for the first time I thought maybe I could do this.
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Maybe this is the next chapter.
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I followed that spark with a second master's in curriculum instruction, mainly because if I'm going to be a principal, I figured I needed to have some more tools in my toolbox when it comes to teaching strategies so I can help other teachers have more tools in their toolbox For when the time comes for me to be a principal, I have the background and the knowledge to help them become the best they can be.
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After my time at Hershey, I moved on to the Omaha Metro where I taught at Millard North High School, the largest school in Nebraska at the time.
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I learned so much from Principal Brian Begley, especially around accountability and culture.
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But I knew I wanted more leadership opportunities.
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But Millard Public Schools required three years before joining their leadership academy.
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I didn't want to wait, so I jumped at the chance to teach and coach in Ralston where my friend Dr Josh Wilken was already doing great work.
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The main reason why I made the switch from Millard North to Ralston was to join their two-year leadership academy under Dr Mark Adler.
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T that was a game changer for me because I got to spend two years experiencing his leadership and understanding how he operates as an educational leader, but also learning from him through that leadership academy.
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This experience gave me confidence and also during my time at Ralston I was able to build my resume, where I was able to work with Mr Mike Smith, which was our activities director, and I was able to work some events.
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I was able to be in charge of some events and run some events.
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So that also helped me as well, because I thought I would start as an assistant principal or an activities director when I became principal but for some reason I wasn't getting a lot of callbacks for interviews.
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I was getting some interviews and some AD roles and some assistant principal roles.
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I kept getting told you know, you're great, but you don't have the experience.
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And I'm sitting there thinking, well, I got to start somewhere.
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It wasn't until I interviewed for the AD role in Bayard, Nebraska that's my wife Heather's hometown, and everything shifted.
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I didn't get the AD job but the superintendent, Dr Travis Miller, saw something in me.
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He said you're interviewing for the wrong job.
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You answered every question like a principal.
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So he happily invited me to apply for their principal job at Baird.
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That was the first time that I thought to myself should I become a principal and not an assistant principal?
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So I called my friend Dr Josh Wilken at the time and we had a nice long chat and he said Jeff, you're a principal.
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Every way you answer those questions is telling me that you're a principal of material and not assistant principal of material.
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And that was the first time I went like whoa, I must be presenting myself in a way that I was not cognizant of.
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I didn't know I was presenting myself as a principal leader instead of assistant principal or an activities director.
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That conversation really shifted my mindset when it came to which jobs I applied for.
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So then I started applying for principal jobs after that experience in Bayard.
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It wasn't easy.
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I was applying, I was getting interviewed and even though I applied for the Bayard job and for the principalship there, I did not get it.
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When I didn't get that job, I'm thinking, man, I'm going to be a shoe in for that.
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And when I didn't get it, it kind of made me go wow, what does that say?
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Well, what I took from that is saying that wasn't the right fit for me, that wasn't where I needed to be.
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And when you get the opportunity to get to the place you're supposed to be, it will all just work, it will all just happen.
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And I just kept reminding myself.
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So I kept driving on, kept trying and going to these interviews.
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And so the one interview that I went on was my experience going through the interview process in Shickley, Nebraska, that was a tough experience because that was the first time I did like a half day interview.
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This was long.
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It was a tense interview process that included the entire school and community.
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I didn't just get to interview with the administrative team, I got to interview with teachers, I got to interview with students and I also got to meet the community members and go on a town tour and get to learn about the community.
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And even though I didn't get that job, that led to my next application, where it was to Southern Valley, because the outgoing superintendent of Shickley was the new superintendent at Southern Valley and that person is named Mr Bryce Jorgensen.
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After that interview in Shickley was over, he basically said hey, any of you guys would like to interview for the principalship at Southern Valley?
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I would strongly encourage you to apply.
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And so from there I thought about it.
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I looked into the school and then I talked to my wife and my daughter at that time that was still at home and said, hey, what do you guys think?
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And they said, yeah, go for it.
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So I went ahead and I applied for the Southern Valley job Through that process, because I went through the interview process as Shickley.
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The Southern Valley process was very similar so I was used to it.
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So I got that experience, which was great for me, and then Bryce Jorgensen.
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Mr Jorgensen saw potential in me and gave me my first principalship job, which I'll be ever grateful to him for giving me that experience.
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I spent four years at Southern Valley honing my leadership skills.
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There were some things that happened there that I won't get into because that's for a whole other podcast.
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But when I came right down to it, they were downsizing principalships, so we had the building principal and we had the assistant principal activities director.
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So they were going to take those two positions and put them together.
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So one of us had to basically be the one to leave and we didn't know who that would be.
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The board didn't have a decision at that time, Instead of waiting around to see if they were going to retain me or if I was going to have to find a new job.
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I went ahead and just started looking at new jobs, but I wanted to look for jobs that were like a bigger school district.
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I spent the last two years at Southern Valley not knowing what my future was going to be, knowing that either I was going to be retained or I was going to be asked to.
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They were going to retain the other person over me.
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So, not knowing that, I went ahead and started applying and it just seemed like every time I turned around I'd get into a job interview and I'd get rejected, and it was a lot of just ups and downs through those two years.
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I went on 18 interviews in that two-year span and through that I learned something very valuable and got really good at these interviews and how to prepare for them and what to do.
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It wasn't until that 19th interview was the one where I got to be named the principal at Hastings High School, and so that journey really developed me as how to approach interviews and how to understand that you know you need to find the school that fits you and how you align to that school is very important.
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So you have to know who you are as a leader when you decide to get into these principalships and start applying for these jobs, and then when you get asked to do the interviews, how do you prepare and how do you do for that?
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And so, through that experience that I have, I want to talk to you guys about the things I learned, and here's some tips for you aspiring principals out there.
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I have 11 of them for you here, and these are the things that I've learned through my journey that will help you land your first principalship.
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So I think the first thing you need to do before you start applying for jobs, you need to be able to lead from where you are and you need to be good at what you do at the time.
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So you need to start looking at leadership opportunities as a teacher, join committees, lead professional development, run events, supervise events, do whatever you need to do to build that resume on the leadership side.
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Other things such as, if you're able to, if your school district has it, be a part of their leadership academy or some sort of leadership development programming, because that will get your foot in the door.
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So when it's time for you to apply for those positions within your district if that's where you like to be, or to apply outside of your district, because sometimes you will need to leave the district you're in to get that principalship.
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That's what happened to me at Ralston, where I was trying really hard to stay in the district but there just wasn't opportunities at the time so I had to look outside of it and that's where, going from Ralston into Southern Valley, I had to take that leap and do that just to get my first principal ship.
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So, understanding there's things you can do now as a teacher at the building level to help build your leadership capacity, because those things will help build the experiences you need to be able to speak to in those interviews when you get those chances.
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The next thing you need to do is know your path.
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So for me, I was thinking I need to be assistant principal or an activities director or a dean of students or something.
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Assistant principal or an activities director or a dean of students or something.
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I wasn't even thinking principal because I didn't understand how I was presenting myself until later, right Until that Baird interview, and so, and then talking to my buddy, Josh, about how I answered those questions and he's like, well, you're presenting yourself as a principal, so you need to understand, like, where you fit.
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Do you fit that assistant principal role, that AD role or even building principal role?
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I didn't know that I was presenting myself as a building principal, but once I knew that, that made it a much more targeted process for me, knowing where I was going to apply and how I was going to present myself in those roles.
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And so, through that just knowing your path, knowing kind of where you want to be, and then really hone in onto those schools that are needing those particular types of positions.
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Now some people say, just throw a bunch out there and see what happens.
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That's okay too, but I would say, if you know you belong in that AP role or the athletic director role or even that building principal role, I would say, focus on that and really get really good and find detailed on those things.
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And the next thing I want you to do before you start applying is when you create a resume.
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What you need to put on that resume is your leadership experiences.
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Yes, it's great to have your teaching experiences in there, but you need to talk about, hey, these committees I was on.
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Hey, I supervised events, I did these type of leadership roles throughout my time as a teacher, Even if it's becoming the department head of your department.
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That's something that will show that, hey, I've done some leadership and I'm ready for that next step.
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And then, when you create cover letters, make sure you tailor that cover letter to that specific job and to that particular school district.
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Because one thing as a principal annoys the heck out of me is when I get a cover letter that reads another school's name or another school's job.
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I'm like, oh, and you did not take the time to correct those things and make it personalized to that school district.
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So personalize those cover letters and those resumes and make them look good before you submit them.
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And make them look good before you submit them and make sure you check over that, because you're competing against other teachers and other people that want to become leaders, or, in some cases, you're competing against existing principals or existing APs that want that job as well.
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So you want to make sure you set yourself apart when you put those resumes and cover letters together as well.
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The next thing I want you guys to do is you be able to do your homework.
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You need to know the school district's culture, value, the program, the systems they have in place.
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Are they a PBIS school?
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Do they have an MTSS process?
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Those things are really important to know and yes, it's good to know like, hey, where do they, what are their testing scores and where are they at?
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That stuff's good to know, but it's not what's most important.
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What's most important is to know the culture of the district and know the values, and so some ways you can do that is you can connect with people.
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Maybe you know people that know people in that school district, or you may know a teacher, or you may know somebody that currently works in that district and you can have a conversation with them and go hey, what is it like to work there?
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What are the values?
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What do they uphold?
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Another thing I would like you to do is probably really research that superintendent that you'd be working for, because you need to know if your values and what you bring to the table aligns to that superintendent's values.
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And try to do some research on that superintendent so you can figure out if what you hold dear aligns with that superintendent, because the worst thing to do is get into a job and there's no alignment with the superintendent or the district's path or goals.
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You don't want to be in that school district, so you want to make sure you align yourself with that school district and make sure that's something that you feel like, yep, this would be a good fit before you even step foot into that interview.
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It's really important to know those things.
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So another trick that I would like to you guys to do, or I would like to share it this is something I've done since I was, you know, coming in as a teacher.
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Right, I wore the school's colors during my interviews.
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All right, I did that on purpose.
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I would research because I didn't want to come in with, like, the rival's colors.
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That would just be terrible.
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I didn't want to be like, you know, put them on, like, oh my gosh, they're wearing the wrong colors.
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So what I would do is I would purposely wear school colors and if I did not have their school colors in my wardrobe, I would go out and buy it.
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I'd go out and get the school colors so I can present myself to show them hey, I'm a part of you, I'm ready to be a part of your district, and that's really important to do.
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And I did that with all my interviews from the time I was a teacher all the way through my principalship as I wore school colors in my interviews.
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Another great tip is to have a notebook Before you even get into the interview.
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You want to jot down some questions you may have and if you're becoming a principal or you're becoming, you know, assistant principal, you want to write down questions that would be specific to that school district.
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And for me, as a principal, I would write down questions that I'd want to ask the student committee questions I'd want to ask the teacher committee questions I want to ask the admin committee and then also the community members as well.
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Those are questions that were really something that I did pre and I did those questions around my research and the homework that I did before I even stepped foot into that school for the interview.
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So that was another really important thing understand, depending on the size of district, depending on how many layers of interviews you may have.
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So if you're in a bigger district, you may go through two to three interviews before getting into that building interview.
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If you're in a small district, it may just be that one interview process.
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But there's a lot of ways school districts will go through their interview process.
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So it's always good to ask when you get that first interview, if you're in a larger district, hey, what's your process?
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How, how does this go?
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So I can understand what my next step is.
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And so that's also another thing to know as well when you get into that getting those interviews now kind of got sidetracked in there.
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Let's go back to the note taking here.
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So bring that notebook so you can have questions ready, so you can ask those questions and you're not forgetting them, because I'm telling you, when you get on those interviews, your mind's going to be going a thousand miles an hour and you're going to forget some.
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So having a notebook is handy and a good way to go back and go.
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Oh, yeah, these are some things I want to ask.
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Another good trick with this notebook is you could jot down names.
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As they're going around and they're introducing themselves.
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You could jot down names and you can make it a more personal connection with them.
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You can say, hey, Tom, that was a really great question and then give them your answer.
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That's just an example of why you would want to jot down some names in that interview process.
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That's just another great way to show just attention to detail and that actually will set you above some of the other candidates that may not do that, and you just want to stay engaged.
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It helps you stay engaged with the process as well.
00:20:13.525 --> 00:20:16.114
Now, we talked about doing your homework.
00:20:16.114 --> 00:20:28.146
We talked about doing your research, and so one of the things you need to do while you're doing that research in the interview itself, you want to mention key things that you learned about their district.
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So there could be a slogan that that school district has and you want to figure out a way to interject that into your interview.
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There might be initiatives, there might be different things.
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That's going on.
00:20:40.905 --> 00:20:56.651
You want to be able to speak to those things, but you want to be able to take those things and weave it into what you have done and your experience as a leader and how you can help what they're already doing move forward as well.
00:20:57.332 --> 00:21:00.712
And another thing is it's okay not to know everything.
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That's just showing your willingness to learn and collaborate.
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That's a time where, hey, I may not know everything you guys do, but here's some experience that I have and I'm willing to learn, I'm willing to collaborate, I'm willing to bring everybody to the table so we can move forward when it comes to that.
00:21:21.260 --> 00:21:36.345
So, understanding that you may not know everything, but in that interview it's okay to not know everything, and so try your best to take your experiences and weave them into those questions and to give them answers.
00:21:36.345 --> 00:21:44.992
And the thing I would do, before you even get into interviews, I would jot down some questions that you may think that they may ask you.
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You can actually go online and maybe look up like, hey, what are questions school districts may ask principals, what are scenarios they may ask you?
00:21:52.797 --> 00:21:57.596
And what you do is you can take those things and you can write out answers.
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You can look at those type of questions and write out things.
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That how I would answer it.
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This is how I would answer those questions if I'm asked those things.
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And so that's another thing is when you're prepping, is when you're doing your research and you're really trying to tackle some of these questions out there that they may ask you and you may want to put yourself in their position of what questions would I ask myself if I was them?
00:22:26.730 --> 00:22:31.078
You know about the district and how I can see myself in there.
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And then I think that's another step in is how do you portray yourself to them when you're answering those questions?
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How are you presenting yourself, Are you helping them?
00:22:43.465 --> 00:22:45.670
Imagine you in that seat.
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How do you make it to where, when you are answering a question, you are showing them I belong here.
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I want you to imagine me being your leader.
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This is how I would work with you guys.
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This is how I would collaborate.
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This is how I would do things.
00:23:01.465 --> 00:23:21.109
It may be different than what they're used to, but what you're doing is you're portraying how you would do things to them from the experiences you have and I think that's really important to know as well is to be able to bring these people in and help them see you be their leader, and that's really important.
00:23:21.651 --> 00:23:27.092
Another thing I want you guys to think about is when you're in that interview, you want to be confident but not cocky.
00:23:27.092 --> 00:23:29.172
You don't want to be bolstering.
00:23:29.172 --> 00:23:37.175
You don't want to be like man, I'm so great, I'm so this, I'm so that you don't want to be arrogant, but you want to be confident in a way that says you know what?
00:23:37.175 --> 00:23:38.566
Here's my experiences.
00:23:38.566 --> 00:23:40.367
Here's my experiences From my experience.
00:23:40.367 --> 00:23:46.113
This is how I would handle that situation, or this is how I would collaborate through the experiences I have.
00:23:46.113 --> 00:23:56.922
How do you bring your experiences into the interview and you could speak to the things that they're doing, so you could help them see you be their leader, and that's really important.
00:23:56.922 --> 00:23:57.990
But you would have to have confidence.
00:23:57.990 --> 00:24:19.748
But if you've done leadership things you need to own like, yep, these are some things I've done, this is how I've worked it and this is how I would come in and help you guys do some of the same things that I've already done, and so to them you're just saying you know I have this experience, I want to show you my knowledge and I want to show you how I would do things.
00:24:19.748 --> 00:24:26.732
But yet how do I bring everybody involved and to the table on those things and being able to show them that vision?
00:24:27.244 --> 00:24:29.794
The other things I did towards the end of my interviews.
00:24:29.794 --> 00:24:34.564
So I talked about I did like 25 interviews between two principal ships.
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Right, the first principal ship.
00:24:36.288 --> 00:24:41.592
I did about six interviews before I got that one and then I did 18.
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And then my 19th one, I got my job at Hastings High.
00:24:44.926 --> 00:24:49.915
So over 25 interviews, about 20 of those.
00:24:49.915 --> 00:24:53.007
I did not do this, but the last five I did.
00:24:53.627 --> 00:25:05.268
I created what I call the 60-90-30 transition plan and what I did is I created this plan and I talked about it in one of my recent episodes.
00:25:05.268 --> 00:25:09.557
If you would go back I believe it was episode 25, go back and listen to that.
00:25:09.557 --> 00:25:10.826
I talk about the plan.
00:25:10.826 --> 00:25:17.626
But that plan, my transition plan, helped me land my job at at Hastings high.
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Because what I did is I showed them what I would do in that first year, how I would come in, how I would collaborate, how I would communicate, how I would build the relationships and trust on my staff.
00:25:33.346 --> 00:25:39.766
Because I knew, coming in as a first year principal in that building, I wasn't going to go in there and make changes.
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I was going to go in there and learn.
00:25:42.067 --> 00:25:43.910
I was going to go there and listen.
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I was going to go and I was able to lay that out in my 60, 90, 30 transition plan.
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Now the key when you do this is when you create this, you're showing your vision and you want to be able to show them that and be able to speak to it.
00:25:58.342 --> 00:26:04.451
But then when you get the job and be able to speak to it, but then when you get the job, you better hold yourself to that.
00:26:04.451 --> 00:26:05.635
It gives you accountability and you have to hold it.
00:26:05.635 --> 00:26:10.396
So when my first year at Hastings High, I took out my transition plan and I was following it.
00:26:10.396 --> 00:26:23.768
Man, I was like going through it, checking it off, making sure I was doing what I said I would do and I think that's really important to do when you have these transition plans is to hold to what you said you were going to do in that interview.
00:26:23.768 --> 00:26:33.102
With that plan, I was able to show my vision and show them and be able to really have them see me in that light of being their principal.
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So that was really important.
00:26:34.425 --> 00:26:50.571
And another couple of quick detail things when it comes to that plan, make sure you have that plan with their logo and their school colors and make it look really good when you present that, because you're going to give that to the administrative team, You're going to give that to the teachers.
00:26:50.571 --> 00:27:01.034
You may not give it to the students, but you're going to give it to some of those people, some of those adults in those interviews committees, so you can show them.
00:27:01.034 --> 00:27:07.823
This is what I would do, this is what I'm about and this is who I am, and that's really important to be able to show that.
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And that leads me to my final tip is you need to be authentic.
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Don't be fake.
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