June 23, 2025
Episode 33: Get Organized: Dr. Frank Buck’s Journey and Blueprint for Productive Educational Leadership!
What separates exceptional educational leaders from the merely competent? According to Dr. Frank Buck, it might be as simple and as challenging as reliable organization systems. His journey from band director to productivity expert reveals a crucial truth: educators aren't typically fired because students performed poorly at a concert, but because they forgot to order the buses to get there.
Dr. Buck's leadership philosophy centers on supporting teachers by removing obstacles to their core instructional work. With experience spanning classroom teaching, building leadership, and district administration, he's observed firsthand how systematic approaches to organization create environments where both teachers and students thrive. His fundamental principle? External systems for capturing commitments allow your brain to focus on what truly matters teaching and leading rather than constantly trying to remember countless details.
The digital revolution has transformed how we manage information, but Buck argues the underlying principles remain unchanged. Whether using a paper planner (his original "little book that impressed teachers") or sophisticated digital tools like Remember the Milk, the key is developing reliable systems where nothing falls through the cracks. Buck shares practical strategies for implementing digital task management, leveraging AI tools like ChatGPT to enhance productivity, and creating repeating task systems that eliminate the need to reinvent processes annually.
For aspiring leaders, Buck emphasizes mentorship and persistence, encouraging educators to seek administrative positions before they feel fully ready, understanding that the application process itself builds crucial networks and experience. His most powerful insight might be the simplest: "Good teachers come and stay if you treat them right." Creating systems that support teacher effectiveness ultimately creates the environments where students can flourish.
Ready to transform your leadership through better organization? Visit frankbuck.org to access free resources, join his email list, and discover how simple systems can dramatically improve your effectiveness as an educational leader.
Dr. Frank Buck's Website: https://FrankBuck.org
"Get Organized Digitally!: Here Are Updates To The Book"
https://frankbuck.org/get-organized-digitally-updates/
Dr. Frank Buck's social media links:
Linkedin: http://linkedin.com/in/DrFrankBuck
YouTube: https://youtube.com/@drfrankbuck
Instagram: http://instagram.com/drfrankbuck
Facebook: https://facebook.com/@DrFrankBuck
Bluesky: https://bsky.app/profile/frankbuck.org
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01:56 - Dr. Frank Buck's Journey into Education
05:13 - From Band Director to Principal
10:11 - Leadership Philosophy: Hire Great People
15:46 - Moving to District Leadership
24:05 - Becoming an Author on Organization
32:52 - Digital Organization and AI Tools
40:13 - Practical Organization Strategies for Leaders
46:09 - Mentorship and Advice for Aspiring Leaders
53:32 - Resources and Final Thoughts
WEBVTT
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Joining me today on the show is Dr Frank Buck, a veteran school leader and administrator.
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He has served as a band director, principal and central office leader.
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Dr Buck is a nationally recognized author, speaker and expert in organization, time management and personal productivity areas.
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Every educational leader can benefit from mastering areas every educational leader can benefit from mastering.
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He's the author of impactful books, including best-selling Get Organized Time Management for School Leaders and Get Organized Digitally the Educator's Guide to Time Management.
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Dr Buck has delivered powerful presentations at conferences across the United States, canada and even Australia, helping educators simplify their lives so they can better serve students.
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Now get ready for some practical wisdom, powerful strategies and a deep dive into systems that help leaders do what matters most.
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Now let's get to our.
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I have Dr Frank Buck.
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Welcome to the show.
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Thanks, jeff, it's a pleasure to be here.
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All right, frank, I'm going to ask you the same question that I ask everybody what inspired you to become an educator?
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Jeff, we'd have to go all the way back to junior high school.
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I joined the band when I was in seventh grade and my original dream was to be a professional in a symphony orchestra.
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So I played flute.
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And then I read an article that said well, here are the 150 jobs in the country.
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You're going to have to wait till somebody dies for there to be an opening and there'll be 200 applications for that job.
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So I thought maybe I need a plan B.
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Well, every secondary school in the country's got a band needs a band director.
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I'm thinking those are a little bit better odds.
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And I grew up very near the University of Alabama.
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That was kind of the hub of all things band in the state at that time.
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So I was around a lot of the really good band directors and I was hearing the better bands in the state.
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And so one thing I was noticing early on was this Whenever a band director who had a really good program moved to another school, that next year that band was better, and the next year it was a lot better.
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And it didn't matter if it was urban, suburban, affluent community, large school, small school.
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When a good band director went into another school, the band got better.
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So the message to me was look, if you're willing to work hard, this is a profession where you can experience success, and experience it early in your career.
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So from like ninth grade, I said I want to be a junior high band director when I grew up, and that's exactly what happened.
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All right, frank.
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So let's talk about.
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You know your teaching career.
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You know what.
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What did you teach?
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I mean band, of course, but you know, was there anything like I know for?
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I mean band, of course, but you know, was there anything like I know for my high school?
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We have band, we have orchestra.
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We have other opportunities for directors as well.
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So let's talk about classroom experience in this case.
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And then what are some things that you learn as a teacher?
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Well, I was lucky enough to be in a situation where my full day was banned I mean had a Cadillac schedule and I feel very fortunate to have started in the situation that I did.
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As I look back, I think even back then and we're talking, 1982 is when I started being organized was so much of it.
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Yeah, you need to be a good musician, that sort of thing.
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But let's face it, people don't get fired from their band jobs because the clarinets didn't quite play so well in tune at state contests.
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You get fired because you forgot to order the buses and it's time to go to state contests and we're all standing on the corner waiting for the bus and the bus isn't there because the bus had never been requisitioned to start with.
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So those are the kinds of things that get you in trouble.
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And those were the kinds of things where I was really strong.
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And of course you know you're also wanting to get along with the other faculty members.
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Well, if you turn your grades in late and the homeroom teacher can't put them on the report card, we're talking back in the days when everything was pencil and paper.
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You know, if you're doing that kind of stuff, you're not endearing yourself to your colleagues.
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So when you're handling your responsibilities, especially where they impact somebody else, things just go a whole lot smoother and, you know, gaining the reputation that look, this new band director we got.
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Yeah, he's young, but he's got his act together.
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You're not going to have to stay behind him and remind him to do this or that.
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Once you say something to him, once he's got it, he pulls that little memo pad out of his pocket, he jots it down and it's like a steel trap and so people begin to have confidence in you.
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And, looking back, that was such a big thing for me.
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Yeah, I mean I agree with you.
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As a principal, you know having an organized director and you know choir and band and those are huge because there's a lot of moving pieces and they're not just working on the academic side but they're working on the extracurricular side as well.
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So they got a lot of things going on and you had to learn early how to manage those type of things.
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Let's talk about getting into becoming a school administrator, educational leader, a principal.
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You know what led you to pursue that role.
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If you had asked me my first year as a band director, fourth year as a band director or eighth year as a band director hey, you think you'd ever like to be the principal?
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I would have told you absolutely not.
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I do not want that headache.
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You give me my band program and you get out of the way, because I can control what happens in those four walls and I know how to teach kids.
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That's what I want to do for 30 years.
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Year number nine we got a new principal at our middle school, henry Clark, and what I saw, what one person could do in a situation where we already had a very high performing middle school.
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When I saw what one person could do to take the culture of that school and move it forward and just to get everything running on all cylinders, I began to rethink that.
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And so he was the inspiration.
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So I started taking the how to be a principal courses.
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Dr Clark kind of took me under his wing and did my administrative internship with him.
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He gave me responsibilities like cheerleader tryouts.
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Oh boy, did I learn a lot there.
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And then eventually he was a big one.
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That helped me get that first administrative job and I think you probably hear that from a lot of other people.
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There was that one person where you said, look, maybe I could do that and impact more people than what I was impacting there in the band room.
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And I never regretted it.
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I loved every day as a principal.
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You bet, yeah, I mean you're kind of hitting on things that you know I'm shaking my head too, cause I'm like, yep, that that's kind of how I looked at it too.
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I mean, I taught in the classroom for 11 years.
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I was a math teacher, pe teacher, I coached, you know, um, you know several different uh, sports.
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So you know, for me to step away from what I really, I really enjoyed what I was doing, but it all came down to impact.
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I can have a bigger impact and for me, it was my wife's grandpa that kind of said hey, you're meant to do more.
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You really need to.
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You know, think about being a principal because you do such a good job in this role.
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A principal because you do such a good job in this role you would even do even you know good things in this role as well.
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So I hear you on that.
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When becoming a principal, being able to have the impact yes, you get some headaches, but that comes with the job.
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But at the same time, being able to impact not just students but teachers and community is a huge deal when you're a principal.
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So let's talk about your principalship.
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What are some things that you learned through that process and you know about the leadership role, the people, any systems that you may have used in that time.
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Yeah, you know, through my experiences with Dr Clark, to me the biggest thing was hire good people and support them.
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You know, let them do their jobs.
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When people from the outside looked at that middle school and the way Dr Clark did things, you kind of had the impression that wow, wow, he has his thumb on everything because everything was so smooth.
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But when you were on the inside, you know where you were sitting down with him, one-on-one.
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It's amazing the flexibility that you had.
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I mean his.
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His philosophy was frank when it comes to band, you're the expert.
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If I came to him with an idea band, you're the expert.
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If I came to him with an idea Frank, you're the expert.
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What do you think he expected you to have thought it through.
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He didn't want to do the job for you, but if you came to him and you had a good idea and you thought it through, he'd support you on it.
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He'd say go ahead.
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If you need me for something, you let me know, but you go ahead.
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And to me that's the thing that separated the best ones that I had from some of the others.
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So I tried to take that philosophy with me.
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I was lucky enough as an elementary school principal to be in a building where the faculty it was a more mature faculty.
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It was a place people wanted to come and stay and it continued that way.
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Yeah, nobody ever left.
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So in the summer the hiring process was like, sometimes nobody, you know, nobody can.
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So you know, hiring good people, letting them do their jobs.
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And then the thing that I was really good at was, you know, like as a band director, being organized, putting systems in place and then doing the same thing as an administrator.
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What paperwork can we take off of teachers?
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What procedures can we streamline?
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What can we do that is not central to teaching students that teachers are doing and take that off of them?
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So it was just, you know, one thing after another and you know and teachers really appreciate that you know just putting those systems in place.
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Yeah, I mean you're saying a lot of things there that you know a lot of people out there you know if you're not trying to, if you're not supporting your teachers, you need to Because in order to build that retention, even in the climate of today, they got to know that you have their back.
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And, just like you said, you know the teachers, like at the high school level, they're content driven, so they're the content experts.
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And I taught math, I taught PE, so I have that in my background.
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But when it comes to other things like you know band, when it comes to science, when it comes to English, when it comes to you know other, you know content areas I have to rely and, you know, support my teachers that are in those content areas, because I'm not going to be able to solve all their problems because they're the expert I'm not, but I can support them, I can help them along and maybe help them streamline some things that they're thinking about to make it a better system or a better process that they're working through, and I think having systems in place and streamlining things and trying to take things off a teacher's plates is huge.
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One thing that I did just this past semester is.
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We piloted an AI product called Magic School AI, which has helped teachers differentiate instruction, but also it's reduced some of their planning time so they can focus on the engagement and the teaching of the content.
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And I have to spend so much energy, you know.
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You know thinking of all these different ideas and you know they even more experienced teachers were loving it because they're like, hey, there's ideas I'd never even thought of and I taught for 30 years, so you know, being able to find different ways to do that is huge as an administrator, as a principal, in this role, so I'm really glad that you hit on that.
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But there was a time you went from principal into the district leadership role.
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Could you talk about what that role was and what inspired you or motivated you to make that transition?
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Well, I had been at the same elementary school for nine years, was actually at a point where I could have retired, thought about retiring and going to another state and draw the retirement and cranking it up as a principal.
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But a job came open at the central office, or actually rather, was created at the central office.
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It'd been vacant, where our curriculum coordinator had left five years before and instead of filling the position, they just said Frank, why don't you just kind of do elementary curriculum plus run your school?
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So a curriculum position was created and I applied for it, got it.
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They also gave me special education because okay, because, after all, special education, that won't take much time, you'll do a great job, frank.
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And professional development.
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And it turned out if it wasn't federal programs or feeding the kids, it was me.
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It was a small central office but again, you know, I was the guy that could wear lots of hats and keep lots of balls in the air.
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So I think I was kind of the perfect person for it.
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And again, I'm supporting principals trying to use technology to reduce paperwork now on the entire school system rather than, you know, than just my school.
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And it was.
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It was enjoyable, I'd say not as enjoyable as the principalship.
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So so for the principal who's thinking about, hey, do I want to go to the central office?
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Think twice, think twice.
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You'll miss the kids, you'll miss the teachers.
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I know, as a principal, some of the most down days were those meetings at the central office.
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The central office it was like let me get out of this meeting and go back to my school and run my school and just walk up and down the hall and see what's going on in classrooms and forget some of this junk that we just went over in the principal's meeting.
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Yeah, no, I mean I kind of hear you on that.
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You know I've been blessed.
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My superintendent doesn't require us to be at a ton of district level meetings.
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We have them.
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I mean they're there when we need them, but at the same time they know for us our best spot is in our buildings, with our kids, with our staff, every day, and if we need to go do some things, we go do them, but then we're right back to doing the things that we're designed to do and I think everybody's got a reason and a way to transition.
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But for you, you actually got to kind of do some of the principalship stuff and the district office stuff, and so that's kind of a unique challenge, and so let's talk about that.
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What are some things that were challenges when you're in that role, when you're looking at trying to support leaders in schools but also trying to run your school at the same time?
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Well, of course, you know, every principal has some ideas for how they want to run their school.
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So sometimes balancing, you know, this is what they really need to do with.
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Maybe that's not what they're comfortable with.
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For example, you have, some principals are more comfortable with technology than others.
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So whereas one principal would say, you know, I say, well, you know, there's several ways that you could do this.
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And that principal would look at me and say, well, how did you do it?
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How do you do it Because it's working for you?
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Tell me what you're doing.
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I want to do the same thing.
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And then there would be, you know, another principal that was like no, I've been doing this a long time, Just sort of leave me alone.
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You know, that's one of the things about the central office your influence is broader but the power is less.
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You can suggest things, you can present things, but the ultimate decision maker in so many cases is the principal in that school, which I think is the way it should be, because we do hold the principal accountable for so many things.
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So I think so much of the final word needs to be there with the principal.
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Again, it goes back to the same the support, you know the support for teachers if you're a principal, the support for principals if you're in the central office.
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Yeah, I mean you keep coming back to supporting.
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How are you supporting your teachers?
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How are you supporting the school principals and using those experiences?
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And I know for me, like, yeah, I can draw on my experiences, but at the same time, it's not about how I would do it.
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It might be how can I help you do it to the best of your ability?
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And those are things that I've done as a principal or school leader in my time to help my teachers and help my students, and basically that goes back to hey, you're the content expert, what do you think?
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You know, I'll come with an idea and you're like going no-transcript.
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I'm empowered by this because I'm taking ownership in it, so I think that's really great.
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Yeah, and Jeff, one thing I want to interject.
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So many people talk about the kids.
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Think about the kids.
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We're all about the kids and absolutely yes.
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Kids, the kids, think about the kids.
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We're all about the kids and absolutely yes, kids come and go through the years.
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But good teachers come and stay If you treat them right.
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And good principals come and stay.
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And if I'm, if I'm a principal, the best thing I can do for the kids in my school is put a great teacher in that classroom and then ditto, when you're in the central office.
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How do you get the very best teachers?
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You can attract them to your schools and your school system and then put some, put the things in place that cause them to want to stay there.
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Yeah, and I think that's huge, even like even in the times we're living today, where you know you have teacher shortage, administrator shortage, I mean.
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I mean it's it's.
00:20:18.862 --> 00:20:29.169
It's a very tough time and I've been lucky that I only had two staff members this year not come back, one to retirement one.
00:20:29.169 --> 00:20:41.327
I'm running a building of about 84 certified certificated staff, 130 total staff, and so just to have two turnovers and then I filled all my vacancies.
00:20:41.327 --> 00:20:46.954
I'm like oh and yes, I'm like, you know, that's like got me pumped up, right.
00:20:47.154 --> 00:20:58.986
So you're right on creating a place that people want to come and stay and be a part of something that's bigger than themselves, and it's something that I believe and something you're kind of hitting on there.
00:20:58.986 --> 00:21:02.746
So you're hitting everything right on that one there.
00:21:02.746 --> 00:21:12.644
Let's talk about you know, somewhere along the way you decided I'm going to become an author, all right, and let's talk about you know.
00:21:12.644 --> 00:21:14.248
It looks like you have a few books.
00:21:14.248 --> 00:21:24.643
Get Organized Time Management for School Leaders you have two editions of that and then Get Organized Digitally the Educator's Guide to Time Management.
00:21:24.643 --> 00:21:32.811
So let's talk about what inspired you to write these books and what was it that you said?
00:21:32.811 --> 00:21:33.212
You know what.
00:21:33.212 --> 00:21:37.425
This is something that others may need, and kind of talk about that.
00:21:38.615 --> 00:21:44.930
Well, kind of that story began when I was working on my doctorate.
00:21:44.930 --> 00:21:55.521
Between the band director time and the principal time was four years as a middle school assistant principal, and so during that time I got my doctorate.
00:21:55.521 --> 00:21:59.388
During the time that I was a middle school assistant principal we got the dissertation.
00:21:59.388 --> 00:22:07.434
So from what everybody has listened to so far, it's like yeah, well, frank's the organized guy here.
00:22:07.434 --> 00:22:12.928
So no surprise that I decided to do my doctoral dissertation on time management.
00:22:12.928 --> 00:22:36.576
It was a study of the time management practices of Alabama principals, and so one of the things that I ran across was you know, there's so much that's written about time management for the business world, but especially at that time there was very little written directly aimed at educators, and so you know you could read business books and gain some ideas from that.
00:22:36.576 --> 00:22:48.438
So I thought, well, let's go the other way, let's write our stuff for educators, and if doctors and lawyers and other people want to look over our shoulder and steal our ideas, hey that's fine.
00:22:48.438 --> 00:23:00.921
So did the dissertation and during that time also put together a little workshop for teachers and administrators based on the things that I was doing and the things that I was learning, and that started to grow and grow and grow.
00:23:01.382 --> 00:23:07.397
So I walk in my office one day and there's this email.
00:23:07.397 --> 00:23:25.326
It's an email from Bob Sickles, at that time the president of a company called Eye on Education, and what he said was Frank, I read a review that you did on one of our books, so your name was, kind of you know, front of mind with me.
00:23:25.326 --> 00:23:33.145
And then I read this article that you wrote for Principal Magazine and I said to myself, wow, that's the same name I just saw on this review.
00:23:33.145 --> 00:23:37.342
I googled, you found your blog.
00:23:37.342 --> 00:23:39.586
See, I've been blogging for about a year.
00:23:39.586 --> 00:23:43.240
And he says have you ever thought about writing a book?
00:23:43.240 --> 00:23:47.208
And if you have, I'd love to work with you.
00:23:48.375 --> 00:23:55.788
Now, probably all of us at one time or another have said you know, I'd love to write a book when the time is right.
00:23:55.788 --> 00:24:05.849
Well, the time doesn't get any more right than the president of a publishing company emailing you saying, hey, I want to work with you.
00:24:05.849 --> 00:24:13.964
So basically took the workshop, put it together in the form of a book and six months later it was ready to go to press.
00:24:13.964 --> 00:24:19.327
And about six months later, because you got to pick the cover and all kind of little things that have to happen.
00:24:19.327 --> 00:24:22.282
So another six months and it was out.
00:24:22.383 --> 00:24:26.786
Get organized Time management for school leaders, first edition.
00:24:26.786 --> 00:24:36.663
So when people say, hey, frank, how do you contact publishers and pitch to publishers, I'm like I have no idea.
00:24:36.663 --> 00:24:41.866
I was the lucky one that just checked his email and they want to work with me.
00:24:41.866 --> 00:25:06.386
But loved the process that first book did very well, opened up a lot of doors, speaking engagements and national conventions and especially, being a practicing principal at that time and a practicing central office administrator, national conferences were like come on, come on.
00:25:06.386 --> 00:25:12.738
Now, once you retire and you become well, this is Frank Butt, president of Frank Butt Consulting Incorporated.
00:25:12.738 --> 00:25:17.902
They're not, as you know, they're really looking at those practicing administrators.
00:25:17.902 --> 00:25:30.311
So word to the wise out there for anybody thinking about you know, the side hustle sort of thing Start it while you're actually in your job, where you're walking the walk, not just talking the talk.
00:25:35.295 --> 00:25:40.207
Yeah, I mean that's really great advice there, frank, and you know, like for me, I want to just help other principals and other school administrators out there.
00:25:40.207 --> 00:25:41.778
That's why I started my podcast.
00:25:41.778 --> 00:25:46.116
Yes, I'm still a practicing principal and I plan on being that for a while.
00:25:46.116 --> 00:25:49.746
I still got 12 years before retirement, so I got some time here.
00:25:49.746 --> 00:25:56.279
So you know, I'm 18 years in, I got 12 more and then we'll see how things go.
00:25:56.279 --> 00:26:05.689
But yeah, I mean that's really great advice that you could give other people that may look to want to have something like that in the future.
00:26:05.689 --> 00:26:09.038
So let's talk about just your books in general.
00:26:09.038 --> 00:26:11.984
What were the goals of the book?
00:26:11.984 --> 00:26:13.448
How do they help people?
00:26:13.448 --> 00:26:18.267
What are some big takeaways people can get from reading your books?
00:26:20.236 --> 00:26:23.682
Well, the two that are out there right now.
00:26:23.682 --> 00:26:38.823
The second edition of Get Organized Time Management for School Leaders is written with this idea in mind that if someone picked up that book 50 years from now, it would still be relevant.
00:26:38.823 --> 00:26:52.125
It talks about practices, principles of organization and time management definitely more on the digital side of things, but you won't see the word Apple in it.
00:26:52.125 --> 00:26:59.565
You won't see the word Apple in it, you won't see the word Google, you won't see the word Microsoft in there, because technology changes a good bit.
00:26:59.565 --> 00:27:06.838
But what I talk about in there are things that you could do, regardless of what the tools are.
00:27:07.819 --> 00:27:12.443
Get Organized digitally took the opposite approach.
00:27:12.443 --> 00:27:21.531
My publisher actually came back to me in 2020, and we all remember 2020, don't we?
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