Welcome And Guest Background

Principal JL 1:20

What does it take to go from a classroom teacher to a transformational school leader? To one of the most influential voices in education today. If you're a principal, aspiring leader, or an educator striving to make a deeper impact, this episode is for you. Today I'm honored to have principal Baruti Kafele on the show. He is a transformational educator whose impact on school spans nearly four decades from being named Teacher of the Year in East Orange, New Jersey, to becoming nationally recognized as a turnaround principal for Newark Tech. Principal Capele has consistently demonstrated what's possible when leadership is rooted in purpose, belief, and action. His school's rise to national recognition and his own Milken Educator Award are just a part of a legacy built on excellence. Today he's one of the most sought-after voices in education, delivering thousands of keynotes, authoring multiple best-selling books, and continuing to pour into leaders across the country. I'm excited to bring you his journey as an educational leader, one we can all learn from. Now let's get into the conversation with principal definitely. Welcome back, everybody, to another exciting episode of the Educational Leadership Podcast. Today I am super excited to have on the show Principal Baruti Kafele. Principal Kafele, welcome to the show.

Principal Kafele 3:01

Good to be here. Thank you.

Principal JL 3:03

All right, Principal Kafele. I'm gonna go ahead, I'm gonna jump in. I'm gonna ask you the same question I ask every guest on this show. What inspires you to become an educator?

Principal Kafele 3:16

Yeah, I um got to a point in my my young life where I felt like it was my calling. So there was really nothing else I wanted to do. I responded and answered to the call, and here I am, years later, now 38 years later, still an educator, but in a different capacity, obviously, but still in still in those education streets, as they would say.

Principal JL 3:39

All right. So as an educator, what did you teach?

Principal Kafele 3:42

I taught fifth grade, fifth grade elementary, and then at some point our district departmentalized, starting in grade three. So I became a social studies teacher full-time for fifth graders. Sometimes I taught language arts for my homeroom, and in addition to social studies, and some years I taught math with my homeroom. It depended on what the what the principal wanted at that time, but social studies all day.

Principal JL 4:06

All right. So you know a lot about history then. I would say God bless you for taking on those fifth graders. I could not get into the elementary side. I'm secondary, lowest I got was seventh grade. I was low enough, seventh grade to twelfth grade is kind of my wheelhouse. So thank you for that. And so, as a teacher teaching fifth grade, young minds, history, math, whatever the district needed you to do, what experiences did you have that shaped your leadership through that time?

Principal Kafele 4:36

Yeah, at the core of that question is differentiated instruction, individual, just individualizing everybody in that classroom, understanding their own individuality. And that before we were even using the word equity equity, it allowed me to transition in my leadership to continuing to recognize the individuality of young people as opposed to just looking at a school as a collection of children and a collection of staff, their individuality mattered. So that came from my role as a fifth grade teacher in East Orange, New Jersey.

Principal JL 5:19

Awesome. So you've been teaching for a while. Now, how long did you teach? And then what inspired you to go from being a teacher into administration? Do you have a backstory about that?

Principal Kafele 5:31

Yeah, absolutely. I taught for seven years, and then I I think after about the third year, I knew that there was a principal in me. So I went on and enrolled in a graduate school here in Jersey, got my degree in two years while teaching full-time and even one teacher of the year while working on my master's at the building level, district level, county level, and New Jersey State finalist teacher of the year. So I was, I was, I was working hard, but I knew probably around the third year, third or fourth, I knew there was a principal in me. So I pursued it. You know, it was nobody that really steered me in that direction, direction, hinted to me that I was a principal. I just felt it based on what I was doing in the classroom.

Principal JL 6:13

So you had some intuition and go, you know what? I think what I'm doing here, I can really help other teachers uh do some of the same things that I'm doing. So I'm really inspired by that because not everybody like gets that calling. For me, it was more of my my wife's grandpa, who was a former administrator, and I was perfectly happy being a head football coach, you know, teaching math. I was like perfectly content because I made it right. And he started going, you know what, I think you could do more. And I'm like, Yeah, okay. But I really appreciate you know the intuitiveness that you had, just knowing, like, hey, there's more that I can give. And so, what was your first administrative position?

Principal Kafele 6:53

Assistant principal of a middle school in the same city I keep referencing, that's where I'm from, East Orange, New Jersey. So, six assistant principal, middle school grade six, seven, and eight. And I did that for a year and then became principal of that school. So then uh, yeah, so altogether, uh 14 years in principal leadership.

Principal JL 7:14

So, in that first year as assistant principal, what are some things you learned about leadership that helped you into the next step to be a building principal?

Principal Kafele 7:23

I learned I learned what was not leadership, let's put it that way. So I was a full-time disciplinarian, full-time cafeteria supervisor, bus duty, and teacher supply inventory clerk. Those were my main responsibilities, but yet I had about 20 teachers reporting to me every day. So I didn't have the opportunity to be their coach. I didn't have the opportunity to spend time in their classrooms as an instructional leader. So I learned what not to do as an AP. I learned what didn't work. I understand why I was utilized that way because so many APs are utilized that way, and then they become principals, and that's how their principals utilize them as the one that does the roll-up-the-sleeve work. So at some point, as I grew into leadership and understood that culture supersedes everything, let me put emphasis on the culture so that we so that I can be who I need to be and the school can be what it needs to be. So the culture, the climate of the building became a priority so that I could ultimately become that instructional leader that my staff and students really required me to be.

Principal JL 8:34

All right, that's awesome. Building principal, and you only assistant principal for one year, then you become building a principal. What are some things that you learned as a building principal? Like, okay, I learned these things as assistant principal. I'm gonna apply this as a building principal. And what's what made you a successful building principal once you applied those things?

Turnaround Work Starts With Culture

Principal Kafele 9:10

Yeah, when I became a building principal, I was starting all over because I learned nothing as an AP or I knew how to discipline young people. So so it was I literally taught myself how to lead. You know, obviously I saw other leaders who were effective in the district. I was a reader of a lot of a lot of different material as it related to principal leadership, but I was figuring it out as I went along, and particularly relative to the population that I serve. So perhaps, for example, some of what I did may not have been necessary in environments that were different from mine. I was in a highly urban environment, predominantly African-American, with a with a smaller population of Latino students and uh a free and reduced lunch population of between 85 and 90 percent. So my leadership was geared toward the population that I served in terms of the need that they brought into the building every day.

Principal JL 10:13

Awesome. So you're also known as a turnaround principal, particularly in Newark Tech, as one of your uh places that you were principal. So, what were the conditions that you walked into? What did you have to do to help turn that school around?

Principal Kafele 10:28

Yeah, you know, a lot of a lot of I guess is just the way people the way I've worded things in bios and all that kind of thing. So, so people a lot of times talk about Newark Tech, but the fact of the matter is I was a turnaround principal years before as a middle school principal. And that was because of a focus, a primary focus, not only on climate and culture, but also on curriculum and instruction. So, in in in this case, curriculum that spoke to the student population that we serve, but then pedagogy that spoke to how we deliver instruction to that population. So we were doing things that were very different from, say, the next school, because of that emphasis on the population that we served and making sure that we were relevant, in this case, culturally relevant relative to how we delivered instruction, so that youngsters could see themselves within the learning, see themselves within the reading, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. So later on, I go to North Tech as a high school principal and had never worked in a high school before. So I've got to learn high school. I'm in a low-performing school, and and and and we went to work. And a lot of those practices that I engaged as a middle school principal, I just transferred over to Newark Tech as a high school principal and was able to do a lot of the same things because the population was the same. It was just they were just a few years older, right? But outside of that, the challenges, they were all the same.

Daily Messages That Rebuild Trust

Principal JL 12:01

Yeah. So what are some big things you tackled right away? Was it like the culture piece? Was it the instructional practices? What are some some tips you can give people when they work into a school that's like, hey, they have some things we got to fix? What were some of the key things that you think were like the most important at that time?

Principal Kafele 12:20

Yeah, you know, and this again, this is not grad school stuff, this is just me intuition stuff that I'm gonna share with you. I felt if I'm in a low-performing school with a dysfunctional culture and all the other trappings of being in urban education, I need to, I need to have a voice with the students that I serve, with the staff that I serve. And I noticed just in in the work, the travel that I do, the work that I do as a consultant, I run into a large number of school leaders who do not necessarily have a voice with their populations. Now I'm talking about schools that are that are low performing, schools that that that have cultures that are dysfunctional, uh those schools, right? So I'm saying, well, I'll say to principal, talk to me about your voice with the students that you serve. Do they hear you? Right. But when we talk about voice, then there's a there's a broader question what is their perception of who you are as a leader, right? What kind of relationship do you have with them? Because as I always say to leaders, and as I would say to myself, students are not gonna respect my voice if they don't respect me, right? My voice means nothing if if this shell means nothing. So I say, okay, let me position myself in their lives while they're in school that I matter. And once I've positioned myself that I matter, now I can start using my voice, which is which is simply the the the the verbalization of my mind, right? So now let me let me talk to them about whatever it is that I feel that they need in order for them to be successful human beings within their lives, whether it be in school, whether it be outside. So now let me tell you what that looks like. That means that there'll be no instruction any day for the 180 days that we're in school before they hear from their leader, right? So every day there will be a message from me. It could be in person in a morning convocation, or it could be over the PA system. It's not gonna be all day, it'll be about three minutes, unless I got a heck of a lot to say, then we'll stretch it to five, right? But typically about three minutes, I just need to say something to them to keep them locked in that what we're to what we're doing is significantly important to their lives. But again, I have to have credibility for that message to be conveyed. So that was me every morning, but that's just a piece of it. Since you asked the question, let me go a little bit deeper. Every first day of the month, I have what was called the state of the school principal's message. We call it the principals' meeting. So now I got the whole school in my gymnasium. And because again, once again, because of my credibility in their eyes, I've got a school full of kids who are sitting there, and you could hear a pin drop on the basketball court because they're locked in. So they're not talking and playing and all that kind of thing. So I'm delivering my message of what I saw the previous month and what I expect moving forward, right? But again, I'm gonna say it again, I have to matter because if I don't matter, my words don't matter. So that was my school-wide meeting. But once I just, and that's about an hour long. Once I dismissed them, now I'm gonna keep my freshman. And now I'm gonna have a freshman meeting because that's gonna sound very different from that school-wide meeting. I have my freshmen for an hour that said, so let's call that September. That's when we start in Jersey. After I dismiss them, now my sophomores will come back, and now we'll have a sophomore meeting, then a junior meeting after lunch, then a senior meeting, and now I'm good for the month, right? And then starting in October, we started all over, right? Because I have kids, and I know that all schools don't have this as a as a challenge, but I did. I have kids who are damaged on multiple different levels. Some of it is school damage, right? Others is community neighborhood damage, some of it's home damage, right? But I got kids who are damaged. So my role, along with staff, because it's not a one-man show or one woman show, my my role is to fix them, right? And a part of that fix and part of that rectify rectifying is those messages, but then there's another piece to that. I had always groomed whatever senior, whatever year I was in, my senior class to be co-principals with me. So the second day of the month, we're pulling the freshmen out of class for another day and my senior males. And now each of my seniors has a message of not more than five minutes, right? So I got my guys in one room and I got my young ladies in another room with doing the same thing with women leaders and and guests presenters, and we're so so they're getting this constant, steady, daily message. But then the last piece is their teachers, you know, as as we took the school and we're shifting the school, shifting the focus, shifting the goals, shift, shifting the the strategy, shifting, shifting everything, so that now teachers are looking at what we're doing through a different lens as well. And now they have that much more preparation to be an asset to students as well. So so my point is this constant communication, because one of the things I didn't say in all this is when we open up the floor, right? So it's a two-way street, they have opportunity to also share. So that way we're being educated, we're being informed. So the communication was critical, and the communication was at the heart and soul of the culture of the building, and hence the turnaround that you spoke of.

Instructional Leadership As Real Coaching

Principal JL 19:00

Awesome. Well, that's really, you know, that's a lot to process in that in that for me. It's like I'm sitting there thinking, like, oh wow, how I mean, I was just visualizing you doing that because I I lead a school of about a thousand students. We have about 250, 260 per class. And I'm like, oh man, I'm gonna be pulling a lot of kids. But I I really like the message of the constant communication, understanding the demographics and the population you're working with, because every school is unique, every school has their their their barriers and they have their their successes, and I think that's really important. But for you, you just felt like, hey, you know what, this is something I need to do. They have to have some sort of consistency in their life, they have to have messaging to let them know, hey, I care about you, I want you to be successful, I have expectations, but it's not just coming from me, it's coming from staff, but you're also building student leadership within that whole thing. And so I think that was just really, really great. And thank you for sharing that. Oh, yeah, and you know, that that just that whole process, like I would have never thought of that, and I thought that was really, really great stuff.

Principal Kafele 20:08

Yeah, that was important to me. And you know, and that's why I write all these books, you know. A lot of that is in some of the books I've written, you know, because it is a lot to take. Yeah, yeah.

Principal JL 20:18

So out of out of some of the books you've written, what are some of your your top ones? Would you say, hey, these are some some good books to start with if you're thinking about, you know, how do I build expectations and cultures in a school?

Principal Kafele 20:32

Yeah, well, the you know, I've I've written quite a few, but the one I wrote most recently is called What is My Value Instructionally to the Teachers I Supervise. That is, as I say every Saturday morning on my live stream, that is the most important book that I've ever written. And I think it'll probably be the most important book that I ever write because it's addressing the most important aspect of the work of an administrator, whether it be principal or assistant principal, outside of school safety, right? I put school safety in a separate category because school safety is not the reason that youngsters walk into a building every day. So when I so so I put so I have that isolated by itself, and then everything else is over here because youngsters are walking in, if we want to reduce it to its lowest common denominator to learn. So I therefore ask the question I say, okay, if they're if they're there to learn, how are we guaranteeing that they are in fact learning? Right? Do they have a competent teacher, a teacher who can meet the academic, social, and emotional needs of each of the learners they walk into that classroom every day? So then I looked at, and this is over the years, I looked at the professional learning that a teacher may receive. So it is so many different categories. For example, it could be a conference, could be an academy, it could be an institute, right? It could it could be conversation with another leader, it could be a book, it could be a journal, it could be a blog, it could be a PLN professional learning network, it could be a podcast, it could be a live stream. There's so many sources of professional learning. But here's the challenge today of everything I just listed and more, not one of those folks, the podcaster, the live streamer, the author, right, the presenter, the break, the keynoter, the breakout session presenter, not one of those folks are gonna be in the classroom on Monday morning to inform the teacher of of his or her effectiveness in implementing what was learned, right? So we can say, Yeah, that was a great book I read. That was a great podcast. Oh my God, the the the PLN with all of us on the on the on the on the on the uh professional learning network, social media, you know, all that kind of stuff. I say, yeah, it's good, but but who's the coach? And the coach is is it's it's one is three people the principal, the assistant principal, the instructional coach, right? Maybe one one could throw in a teacher leader if if if if if it works in that building, right? But I want to look at the ones who assign the evaluation in this regard. So that would be the principal and the assistant principal. If it's a smaller school, it doesn't have an assistant principal and the principal. So so let's say now that the principal and assistant principal are principal, assistant principal's chloral. Let's say that they feel so overwhelmed that they say, for example, I feel so overwhelmed that I understand in theory, philosophically, that I should be in classrooms, that I should be talking to teachers before going to their classrooms in a coaching capacity. I should be talking to teachers post classroom visit in a coaching capacity, but I have so much on my plate that I don't know how to make that happen. So, so therefore, in that situation, you have a teacher who may be in a given school district there contractually. They're evaluated twice a year, observed twice a year, and that's the only time that these folks see an administrator, right? And thereby their direct coach. And I say, man, so when we talk about individual, in the individuality of students, differentiation of students, and meeting the individual needs of students, well, who's coaching that, right? And in this regard, the answer is nobody. So now this teacher, we go on, and based on whatever whatever information that we have, documentation we have on the teacher, we go on and reward this teacher and say, good job, satisfactory, and give them an increment for next school year, but yet there's a percentage of students in that classroom, probably a large percentage of students in that classroom who were shortchanged. And I'll just add this piece. I always say, I probably say it every day, that a student's long-term success could have implications relative to who my teacher is in any given grade. So who my teacher is in any given grade could have lifelong implications. I could go pre-K, kindergarten, first, second, third, fourth, fifth, sixth grade, and I got bad teaching. And then in grade seven, just to pull a grade out of the thin air, this teacher says, if I fail, you fail. And if you fail, I fail. And I refuse to fail. And this teacher does everything humanly possible to make this youngster a success story that one year. Well, if that teacher was in fact successful, then everything that teacher poured into that youngster could could could conceivably stay with that youngster for the rest of his or her life. Right. So therefore, I want to make sure I want to increase the probability that I've got teachers in that school who all of them, each of them, are performing at a high level. And that requires that that coaching is happening. Because let me give you this one more example. Think about let's let's go to football. So you're a high school, you're you you yourself are a high school principal. So you got so you probably have a football team, correct?

Principal JL 26:46

Oh yeah.

Principal Kafele 26:47

All right. So now there's a there's a big game, big, big homecoming game, rival game on a Friday night. Friday night under the lights. And the coach has the team in the locker room, and the team is the team is getting ready. They're putting on their pads, putting on their uniform, and and and and and now it's time to go out onto the field. So the coach says, All right, gentlemen, come on in. And you're gonna give them that big, that, that, that, that final talk. I shouldn't say big because it could be low-key, it could be rah-rah, it could be low-key, or anything in between. So now, once he finishes that message, he says to them, All right, gentlemen, let's get this win. And they respond, ah, let's go. And now they're getting ready to march out onto the field. But the coach, like two seconds later, says, Oh, gentlemen, wait, I forgot to tell you something that's very important. Come back. So they're puzzled. What's up, coach? Coach says, Gentlemen, I forgot to tell you if throughout the course of the game, if you need me or any of the assistant coaches, simply come back into the locker room, tell us what you need, we will respond, and then we'll see, and then and then you go back out there and implement what we told you. So now that game is being played with no adults, no coaches on the sidelines. If the offense is on the field, the defense is on the sidelines with second and third string players, and then vice versa. I don't have to ask you the question if you've ever seen that before, because you haven't, nobody has. But if we change genres, let's take it out of the football field now. Let's let's remove it from the football game and go to school. So now the teacher is the athlete, and the head coach is the principal, and the assistant coaches are the assistant principal. We see this model all over America, where the teacher can go the full game, meaning the full year, without any intervention from the head coach or the assistant coaches, with the exception of two formal summative evaluations. That's not gonna cut it. That's why I wrote the book, What is my value instructionally to the teachers I supervise?

Principal JL 29:13

Yeah, that's great stuff. I I am right there with you. I agree with everything you said. That's been something I've been working really hard, I would say, over the last four years to be better at being in the classroom. I what I try to do is I try to schedule time, you know, try to schedule time, doing some walkthroughs, providing feedback, letting the teachers know that, you know, I'm here to help you, I'm here to guide you, I'm here to coach you up. I always talk about coaching them up and always giving them growth opportunities. Yeah, we have our little rules and the things we got to do, but if I can get in there, like I try to get in there, you know, I've been trying to average between five to six times a year for everybody. And that's me, my assistant principals, and myself to where that's walkthroughs, that's formals, that's you know, informative. There, I'm probably in there more than that, but not every time am I writing something down. Some of it's just checking in, seeing how they're doing, if they have any questions on that part. But I'm talking about like documenting five to six times. I don't know if that's good enough, but I'm trying to get better at it.

Principal Kafele 30:17

It's it's formative. So you know, it's it's it's it's it's not formal, you know. You know, when we get summative that when we're writing evaluations, then it's then it's formal. So there's a different level of documentation.

Advice For Aspiring School Leaders

Principal JL 30:28

Yeah, no, so I really think that's you know, nice thing is is I'll have a a link to your book in the bottom of the show notes so people can find that. And I think that'd be really great for you guys to reach out and and get and learn more because you you've done other instructional leadership type books, but I really want to, you know, this one about the value of the principle in that, I think is really powerful because that is kind of our role. We have to be a coach, and that's my mindset, and that's what I want like people to know. We're here to coach you up. We're not here to like, yeah, we got to help you if you're not doing things, you know, the way they need to be done. We're gonna help guide you to get there. And I'm always trying to push my teachers from being like, hey, quit like doing all this direct instruction all the time. It's good in certain places, but how can you have kids apply their knowledge and think outside the box and do some different things? So I really appreciate the work that you are doing with that and how to mind shift or the mindset of, you know, I'm just you know, here to, you know, evaluate you a couple of times a year and that's it. You have to do more than that, or you're not really doing your job well enough in my book. I think you got you have to get in the classroom as much as possible. And the nice thing is, is I have two assistant principals and we split up the duties amongst each other with so we're all doing evaluations, but we're also having conversations with each other. Hey, you know, this person's doing this, and you know, how can we help them and things like that? So I think those conversations are important to have when you're trying to help each other get people where they need to be. Because always look at if we take care of the adults, the adults will take care of the kids and the kids will grow that way. So we got to grow the adults so they can grow the the students as well. And so that's kind of where my mind shift is, but I really appreciate you sharing that out. So, principal cafele, we've talked about a lot of things here, but there's people that listen to the show that are thinking about becoming an educational leader, and I know you work with new new assistant principals or new principals. You also have a podcast as well, you do every morning on Saturdays, it's live. I'll put a link for that as well. What's some advice would you give somebody that's thinking about, you know what, I think I want to do, you know, become an administrator. What would be some advice you'd give them as they as they are pondering that?

The Real Time Cost Of The Job

Principal Kafele 32:51

Yeah, you know, it's it's it's it's there's a whole lot, and we could talk about that till tomorrow, but in terms of some initial things, look at your own principal or assistant principals through a different lens. Instead of looking at them as your evaluator of record, your supervisor, look at them in terms of them being an extension of graduate school. So just study how they move throughout the school and ask yourself, what would I do differently? So, so so for example, it might be a staff meeting, and you see how your principal or assistant principals conduct themselves and conduct the staff meeting itself. And then you ask yourself, what would I do differently? What would I do the same? What am I in disagreement with in terms of who I'd want to be in their shoes in this meeting, right? Look at who they are as coach and ask yourself, would I be the same? Would this be enough? Right? Or are they an example for me? Look at them in terms of the culture of the school. Look at them relative to the systems that may either be in place or are not in place, right? Look at them relative to the programs that are in place in the school and ask yourself, would these be programs that I would want? Or are there programs that are missing in my school, the school I'm working in right now as a teacher or a counselor, whatever I do, are there programs that are missing that if I was principal, I would make sure that these programs are in place? Are there practices, are there procedures, once again, are there systems that are lacking that I would put in place if I was in this school? So, in other words, I say to aspiring leaders all the time study your principal, study the assistant principals, look at them not as your boss, but look at them as an extension of graduate school. So you graduate school is a lot of it's theory, right? It's it's it's it's it's textbooks, it's the computer, it's it's resources, it's all that stuff. Now you got a real life human being in front of you and use that as an extension. So I've got a whole host of questions that I use with aspiring leaders. I wrote this book called The Aspiring Principle 50. The number 50 is on a lot of books I wrote because it's it's comprised of 50 self-reflective questions. And I've got this list of questions in that book that I say to an aspiring leader, I say, just ask yourself these questions throughout the time that you are aspiring to become a leader, right? And it'll help you with that transition when you make it, because you've been thinking as a leader all along. It's not that you were aspiring to be a leader and then make the transition. You were thinking as a leader, right? Is it you know, there's very two different two very different thought processes. So thinking as a leader and using your principle and AP as your reference.

Principal JL 36:51

Awesome. That's great advice. I know for me, that's kind of what I did is I kind of just sat back and watched the principles that I worked under. And I go, Well, I really kind of like that. Uh maybe not that, you know, kind of like, and I learned through that, and I had some really great principles to learn from. I also had some really not so great ones to learn from as well. So I think you can always take something and learn something from other people. And I think that's really great advice if you're thinking about getting that leadership. Kind of watch the leaders in front of you. And I actually am doing that now at the with my district level level uh leaders. I'm like, hey, how are they doing? How's my superintendent handle these situations? How does my cabinet members handle these situations? So I'm watching how they handle things, and I'm learning, like, well, maybe if I ever get there, I'm not getting there right now. It's not at the point, but I'm learning like, how can I grow as a leader? What are some what things I can take from them as well? So always be out there learning and watching other people. I think that's a really great, great, great tool and asset that you can do as well.

Principal Kafele 37:53

Let me add up, let me add one more piece to that too, which is also critical. You you've got to ask yourself, you you you you've you've got to learn yourself. Because, see, we know ourselves in terms of what we do. But quite frankly, if someone aspires to become a school leader, if you've never led before, you don't know that aspect of yourself yet, right? You're gonna learn that, and you'll particularly learn it when you're on the job. So while you're aspiring, then you've got to look at others who are doing it. In this case, as I said before, the folks in the building. And then you got to ask yourself, based on what you see, have an honest conversation with you and ask yourself, am I built for this? Like notice how the principal is is has has got his is juggling a lot of things at the same time as best you can, because I know you're in the classroom doing what you do, but when you can, just notice what they do because you may not really be aware of what's on the plate. Forge relationship with the leadership, principal, AP, and learn from them and see that it's more than what you see. There's a lot of there's a lot going on behind the scenes that you don't know about. So learn as much as you can, understand the hours that are required, particularly at the principal level versus the AP level, and and and and ask yourself am I built for this? Do I have the temperament for this? Physically can I endure this? Do I have a young family at home? And maybe I can't I can't expend these this this volume of hours, you know, that there's so much to consider relative to making a transition from, say, a teacher counselor to a building leader. When you're a building leader, it's pretty much your life. You know, you have a life outside of this, but a large portion of your life is your school. And if you're one that that that needs your time, particularly in those earlier years, you need your time away from the school. This may not be for you because you need to spend time in the school, and that's including weekends. And if you can't physically be in the building weekends, then you need to bring the school home with you, right? But but it's no way in the world that you could you could check out on Friday and then pick back up on Monday. It just it just doesn't work.

Principal JL 40:06

What you don't you can't just take two days out, yeah, it doesn't work that way. No man, they oh, you're just hitting on some things because no matter what, something comes up, and you're getting your phone buzzed on Saturday morning because something happened at the building. I mean, there's a lot of things that happen.

Principal Kafele 40:25

Yeah, but your building's getting flooded, the pipe bursts.

Principal JL 40:28

Oh, yeah, those those things did happen.

Leadership Teams Need More Strategy Time

Principal Kafele 40:30

I know you wanted to go to that that that that that event on on Saturday morning, but your your building's flooded. So now that's on your your furnace, your your your your boiler is is is malfunctioning. You know, it's I mean, it's just so many. There was a robbery, you know. I mean, it's there's so many things, right? There's there's a kid in distress, right? Or or worse, right? And there's so many things that your plans, you know, that that trip you were about to take, that event you were about to go on, your school's in trouble. And that's and we're talking off hours, you know, it could it could be two o'clock in the morning, like you see. You get that call at two o'clock. There's an issue at the school. Guess who got to get up and go to that school? You know, you you could call the the the maintenance man or woman or the secure or or security or or custodian, but but but that's not their ship, that's your ship. You got to be there.

Principal JL 41:24

No, you're hitting on all of that. That's that's really important for people to really understand what they're getting into when you're talking about that principal ship and the leadership role. And I'm gonna talk about something that we I've actually been, we have some teachers that want to become admins, so they're aspiring leaders, and they've been doing like, hey, how can I better position myself? What can I do? What can I learn? And I have a couple of them that have done a really nice job with the school improvement team process and the things, being a part of some of our leadership meetings, really helping me present to the school board on some different things we're trying to do here at Hastings High. And when they start seeing and you start showing them what it's like to sit in this seat and they start looking at their like, oh wow, we didn't realize this, we didn't realize that. Yeah, there's a lot of things you don't see us do that we work in the background. We have to re you know, and I let people know, like, yeah, we're always constantly working in the background that you guys really don't know what's going on on those things because your guys' focus is the classroom, our focus is like everything else around you. Try to make sure that stays stable so you can do your job. So I think that's really important when you have people in your building that's want to be that leader or take that next step, having them learn some things and giving them some things, delegating some things to them has really been impactful because they get to see, they kind of get a little taste and they can kind of determine is this for me or is it not for me? And I think that's important as well. So let's talk about current principles. I know you work with you know principals across the nation. You go to keynote speaker, you do your podcasts, you write your books. What would be some advice you would give principals that are out there? What's something you're saying? This is something that all principals are we should be focused on because it's one of the most important things that we can do for our schools.

Principal Kafele 43:24

Yeah. Where do I start?

Principal JL 43:27

You could probably go forever. I know you can, but pick one or two.

Where To Learn More And Final Takeaways

Principal Kafele 43:31

You know, since I talked about culture, since I talked about instructional leadership, let me let me go in this direction. I'm I'm gonna use another football analogy. I I had a curiosity some years ago of how how many hours do the head coach and assistant coaches collaborate without the the the football, but without the athletes, without the players, without them present, right? Like how many hours do they work, do they come together and plan and strategize without the players being there? And I and I started doing this research, and it came out to roughly 40 hours without the team, just them. And I said, wow, that that is so interesting, because 40 hours is a typical work week for a nine to fiver, right? But also you look at the amount of time that a football game is actually being played at the professional level, 60 minutes. That's it. You know, for those that will hear this this conversation that don't know football, and they they you see somebody, a significant other or whomever watching a game for three hours, but the game is not being played for three hours. That's that's halftime, that's pregame, post-game, commercials, timeouts, all this stuff. The only time the only the only time that the game is being played is when the clock is ticking, and that's 60 minutes. So I said, wow, so they're they're coming together 40 plus hours for a 60 minute game. I said, that's mind-boggling because it because now I now I transfer it to school like I did with the other analogy. I said, so a period at the secondary level is is just a tad under 60 minutes, and a block is more than 60 minutes, and then I have these these just ongoing conversations with school leaders will I where I will ask them, how often does your team come together to plan, to strategize, to debrief, to set new goals, etc. etc. etc. And and and I get various responses, but there is a prevailing. And the prevailing is typically uh we we we I guess we interact about an hour a week, and I said, Woo. So for a game, these guys are doing 40, and for this thing called education, we're doing an hour, right? And and and again, 60 minutes, the game, 60 minutes just a tad over one period in a day. There's a need, therefore, you know, go going to your question, that we start thinking about to what extent are we coming together and are we strategizing on whatever, right? I won't even go into all the specificity because there's so much we can strategize about, but are we coming together and bringing all these minds, depending on how many people are on the leadership team, including folks who are not in administrative lead administration or administrative leadership, but but who but who fit into the team, such as an instructional coach and a teacher leader, maybe a counselor, right? You know, others who are in quasi leadership roles. How often are we coming together? And then you look at the different places they're all coming from. So let's take, for example, let's let's hypothetically say that me, this 65-year-old man, was still a principal, right? But I got an AP on my squad. Let's say I got two APs on my squad who are fresh out of the classroom, classroom. They're in their late 20s, early 30s. Well, you know something. The bottom line is whether whether someone my age wants to accept it or not, they know some things that I just don't know. They know some things about the world that I don't know. They know some things about perspective relative to a younger mind that I'm that I'm no longer connected to, right? But I know some things through wisdom and experience that they don't know. So now you you bring all these different levels of prior experience and background together in a room, and we're learning from one another. But but but but the rhetorical question becomes what happens when we're not taking advantage of that time? And therefore, we're not coming together as a real team of leaders to break down our day the way uh a football football coaches would break down film because you think about it real quick, I won't go too much longer on this. A team plays on Sunday, hypothetically, a Sunday as opposed to a Thursday or a Saturday or Monday. So the players might have the day off on Monday, they may even have Tuesday off, right? But the but the but the coaches who work seven days a week during the season, they're gonna be dissecting, breaking down, and analyzing film all day long on Monday. And they're not gonna do it in isolation, like one is in a room by himself, another's in a room by herself, another's in a room by himself. They'll be watching together and putting eyes on this film and analyzing this film as to what worked and what didn't work, and if it did work, how did it work, if it didn't work, why didn't it work? And then us as leaders, so many of us, we're not doing that, and then we wonder why we're not getting the results that we should be getting.

Principal JL 49:25

Yeah, that's a great analogy, and I really appreciate that perspective. Me as a football guy, I really can appreciate that analogy because I was starting to think about when I was a football coach and I was analyzing game film and we're breaking things down. What are some things we did well? What are some things we need to work on? Oh, what's this other team do well? What you know? But I also went from working with my coaching staff. But if I had another coach that I knew that played them, I might call and go, hey, we're noticing some things here. Are we off on this? What did you guys notice? Oh, yeah, we picked that up too. So you're right, you're on track. So there's a lot of ways we can communicate. And I think as a leadership team, and we do uh leadership meetings, you know, you know, once a week, but maybe that's something we can maybe try to do better is get more. We do we do a lot of informal talks with each other. So we meet a lot about other things too, but I think there's that consistent like connection to where we're trying to communicate with each other, we're trying to make sure we're on the same page, we're trying to stay consistent with everything that's going on in the building. But yeah, how do we come together to help our staff? I think that would be a powerful thing. How do we come together to create strategies so we could help our staff get better and making sure we're staying consistent on that page as well? So I really appreciate that that perspective and that and that advice for principals out there. So man, we've we've talked a lot about a lot of different things, Principal Gaffelle, and I really appreciate your time. So, how can people like what are you up to? Like, what what are some things you're doing currently? And then if people want to reach out and connect with you, how could they do that?

Principal Kafele 51:10

Yeah, I'm still doing this work. I I took an early retirement back in 2011 when I was 50, because I had one more goal in life, and that was to do this work as a consultant, as a speaker. And I I'll put emphasis on speaker, I just love having a microphone and speaking to an audience. So I wanted to do that, but I but the my audience, I wanted to talk to teachers, I wanted to talk to leaders, and somewhere along the way, I want I really wanted to spend my time with leaders more than anybody else, even more than even more than talking to young people at this point as I got older. So this is what I do. I continue to write as well, and I do a live stream every Saturday for 309, no, 310 consecutive Saturdays for two hours where we're just talking leadership every Saturday at the AP and New Principals Academy on YouTube. Begin the AP and New Principals Academy on YouTube, and all the videos, all 310 sessions are there. So you can go there anytime and then get in touch with me, principalkafele.com. And all my contact information is there, my social media, which is everything is Principal Kaffele. I'm on Instagram, Facebook, and X and LinkedIn. I'm everything's Principal Kafele on X is obviously one word, so Principal Kafele at principal Kafele, one word, but everything else is two words, Principal Kafele, right? And then our email is right on the website as well. So just go to principalkafele.com.

Principal JL 52:35

All right, and we're gonna put that information in the show notes so it makes it easy for people to click and find you. And I'll put the book down there, I'll put the YouTube channel down there so people can find you real easily. And guys, I've I've watched his Saturday shows. I haven't been able to watch all 309 or 10 of them that you've done. But I mean, if you think about that, it's about what six years, a little over six years.

Principal Kafele 52:57

We have our sixth anniversary coming up the first Saturday in May. We started this during the pandemic sitting right here in this chair.

Principal JL 53:03

There you go, there you go. And I I definitely recommend it because he does great work and he has great advice he brings on a lot of great people to talk about leadership and those things like that. So I appreciate the work you have been doing. Well, Principal Kafele, it's been great. I appreciate you being on the show. Before you go, is there anything you'd like to say before we go for the day?

Principal Kafele 53:24

Yeah, no, just some folks just understand that leadership matters. And if leadership matters, then be the best leader you can possibly be.

Principal JL 53:32

Awesome. Well, thanks, Principal Kafele. Have a great evening. You as well. Thank you. What a conversation with Principal Kafele. This story is one we can all learn from. One takeaway I have is how we can value our own instructional leadership and coach up our teachers to be their very best. What was your takeaway from this episode? If you would like to share it with me, please connect with me by going down to the "text me" part of the episode where it's under our show notes. I'd love to hear back from you. If this episode resonates with you, please share it with someone who needs to hear it. And please subscribe to this podcast so you don't miss another impactful episode like this one. Until next time, be the chain by being curious, and one percent better.