Episode 70: School Leadership, Culture, Social Media, and Comedy: How Nick Holtvluwer Builds Trust, Teams, and Impact

Welcome And Guest Setup

Principal JL 1:21

What does it take to lead a school for over a decade to build a culture that students, staff, and families love? And somehow make people laugh about it along the way. If you've ever wondered how leadership, authenticity, and humor can come together to create impact, not just in a building, but across thousands of people online, this episode is for you. Today I'm joined by Nick Holt vluwer, Principal of Mammoth Heights Elementary in Parker, Colorado. Nick has spent the last 10 years leading his school community while also building a powerful presence on social media, reaching over a hundred thousand followers, by sharing the real and often hilarious day-to-day life of a principal. And if that wasn't enough, he's also taken the same energy to the stage as a stand-up comic at Comedy Works in Denver. Now let's get to the conversation with Nick Holtvluwer. Today I am super excited to bring in not in just an educational leader principal, but he's also a comedian. His name is Nick Holt vluwer. Nick, welcome to the show.

Nick Holtvluwer 2:47

You got it. Thank you so much, Jeff. Yeah, you can use that word comedian lightly. It's it's yeah. I'm not sure if I've earned that label just yet.

Principal JL 2:58

Well, hey, I see you on social media, going to shows, performing. You know, I love watching your content out there on top of your stuff that you do as a principal. So I'm gonna go ahead, I'm gonna dive right in, Nick. See the very first everybody on the show. What inspired you to become an educator?

Nick Holtvluwer 3:16

Yeah, so my it's not my first career. Education was always a dream of mine, but when I was in college, I fell in love with television production. So I decided I was just gonna go full board into television production, even though I had this dream in the back of my head to be an educator and to be able to work closely and inspire children. So I thought I could combine the two, and I thought maybe I'll go work in children's television, you know. And what's the pinnacle of children's television at the time when I was in college? Mr. Rogers, right? So I thought I'm gonna go work for Mr. Rogers. I knew he produced his show in Pennsylvania, and I did everything I could to get out there, and I moved, I did a semester through my college in Philadelphia, and then it wasn't too long after that. Mr. Rogers films in Pittsburgh. So I had to veer off and I worked for a PBS station in Philadelphia. So I fell in love with television, first of all, went back home to my hometown in Grand Rapids, Michigan, where I worked for the local NBC affiliate. And still that nagging feeling of I missed my calling to go into education. I think it is. It's a calling, right? Nobody kind of goes into the career of education for the money or the fame or the uh or the respect. So I went back to school at my home alma mater, hope college in Holland, Michigan, and I turned my communication major into a language arts teachable major. So after five years, I was a 29-year-old dude going back to college, and not only that with elementary education, and so it was uh I had to kind of swell my pride and take some risks, go back, and then from there I knew that's where I needed to be. And I I taught first grade, third grade, and fifth grade, and that was in Tampa, Florida. And then I got my master's at USF in Tampa, Florida for my admin license, where I became an assistant principal, and then from there moved back home to Michigan for my first principal job. And then finally, my wife had an opportunity out in Colorado where we are now, and I've been a principal out in Douglas County at Mammoth Heights Elementary for the last 10 years. So definitely not the normal path of an educator. Some of it was trying to avoid becoming an educator, but always knowing that's what you needed to do with your life. So I've learned though, even though you may take a different path in education, the lessons you learn every step of the way are valuable as an educator. Because the what I learned in television production and scheduling and in a little bit of sales all comes back to what we do in education, especially in the principal role. So a long winding road, but I learned lessons along the way that were valuable to where I am today. You think you're wasting your time on such a winding road, and that maybe you wasted opportunities, but there's always value in those experiences on the way to becoming an educator.

Principal JL 6:38

Now, you and I have kind of similar paths, but we're both non-traditional educators. I didn't get into education right away. I took what we call the tenure route to just graduate undergrad. A lot of that had to do with, you know, just life choices I made when I was young. I worked in a factory, I was in the military, and you know, it wasn't until I was twenty-eight years old, twenty-nine, I think I turned twenty-nine when I got my first job as an educator. So I mean, I'm like going to my ten year graduation reunion talking to people, what have you been up to? Uh, not much, just trying to finish college. Now I got my first job and we're off and rolling. So I've been been doing it ever since and I just love it. There's times where I go, Man, I wish I would have started sooner, but I think life takes you the way you're supposed to go in those moments. So you you I mean, you kind of just I mean, you're all over here in Philadelphia, you know, Michigan, Philadelphia, Tampa, back to Michigan. I mean, we're gonna maybe get into some of that. I don't know, you know, how what got you to all those places, but you know, just as a teacher, you taught if I remember right, tell me if I'm wrong, first, third, and fifth grade, is that correct?

Nick Holtvluwer 7:50

First, third, and second. I think I may have said fifth. So always inter uh always the primary grades.

Principal JL 7:58

Alright, so those primary grades, you know, special man that can handle that. I I'm secondary all the way. I think it takes a special type of person to be down in elementary. Now, as a principal, I was a 712 principal at the last place I was at before I became the head principal here at Hasty Ty. Yeah, my favorite thing to do when I was having a rough day was go to the elementary site and get hugs. Because they love giving hugs. And I was like, Oh yeah, I'll go over there, make myself go back, go back. But don't ask me to discipline, and that's I was an elementary principal for about a day, and I said, Nah, you can have it back. I'll go back to my science.

Nick Holtvluwer 8:36

Yeah, that's one of my one of my jokes I sometimes say is that people would ask me why did I choose to go into the elementary level instead of the middle school or high school? My answer is always the same. I like to be worshipped. So I just hilarious.

Principal JL 8:55

Yeah, they do look at you like you know, ooh, like, oh Mr. Like run up to you, and you're gonna be having a trapping day ever, and they're gonna give you a hug, and you know, you know, you'd be excited to see you. And I'm just like, okay, I get why people were down here, but at the same time, I have a daughter that is a fifth grade teacher in Kansas City. Um so you know, I try to talk to her about her experiences on things, so it's kind of fun.

Speaker 2 9:19

Nice with that.

Principal JL 9:20

So as a basically a primary teacher, first second, third grade teacher, what are some things you learned as a teacher that helped you become the leader you are today?

Classroom Lessons On Team Support

Nick Holtvluwer 9:31

Yeah, I think what I think it's always incredibly helpful to have that perspective from especially the the lower grades, because I always knew elementary education was where I where my zone was. And so being able to talk to what we have to go through in the trenches as a first grade teacher, second grade teacher, third grade teacher, what I learned the most though is you know, when you try to go it alone as a teacher, it gets tough. It's a really tough job to be able to do it all by yourself. And so I learned, you know, just how to rely on the resources, rely on admin for their support, and just you know, rely on the uh interventionists, the special ed teachers. That was something I took me a little bit longer to realize because I was like, I was like, I'm gonna go in, I'm gonna do it all myself. This I can handle it, I got my own little space. I don't need to listen to any teammates because I'm a little bit different and how I on my approach to to teaching. But it you really I learned a lot about just being able to rely on those support systems that are in the school. And if you try to do it by yourself, you try to go alone, makes the job incredibly difficult. So that kind of goes into my educational leadership philosophy is that uh we're in this together, and it's best to be a servant leader and to support your teachers, and so they always know that you're there for them. It's because it's a it's a stressful job as a teacher. So you come from an angle of our I've been there, I've tried to go it alone, but I understand the power of the team and the resources that a school provides.

Principal JL 11:10

I hear you there. I know one of the things that I love about the work we do at our school is the PLC aspect and you know, where we collaborate, we have dedicated time for that. And that's one of my hiring points when I hire somebody. You're not gonna be isolated because you know, me and my assistant principals, we have worked at school districts where it's like, here's your classroom, there's your books, see you later. You know, like figure it out. You know, I remember that very clearly when I took my had my first job, got my math room, I got my books. Oh, there's the books, yeah. See you later, figure it out. Like there was no guidance, and that's what one of the things I try to do is like we try to we set we have our system set up in place to where if we bring someone in new and they got things, they got systems, they got people to go to, and so I really that you learn that you know, don't do this alone because you can't, it's harder, and it's a lot. It's one of those things you can't do this job alone, you need people around you, good people around you to help you all the way through on that. So what was it that made you go, huh? I'm gonna try this, you know, educational leadership administration round. You know, was there someone that kind of nudged you along the way? Was it something you just knew you were gonna get into? You know, what's the story? What got you in to become an I believe a system principal first?

Jump To Assistant Principal Reality

Nick Holtvluwer 12:38

Yeah, you're right. Well, you know, I would watch really great leaders who hired me and who I worked for as principals very early on. I was I was observing them, and it didn't take me long to realize there's no way I'll ever do that job. They got it under control, and that's that's a pretty heavy lift uh for an educator. But it didn't take very long for Mrs. Bass, who was my principal in Tampa, to say, Hey, have you ever thought about going to into administration? And I said, Yeah, I thought about it for two seconds, and then I left that thought real quick. You know, that thought escaped quickly. I didn't fight it, I didn't fight that urge. And so she said, Well, I think you should look into it. And you know how it is when education, you have to continue to keep up with your ed, you know, with your continuing development in education and master's degrees. So, like, well, if I'm gonna go get higher up on the pay scale and I need to get work towards a master's, the only thing that really makes sense for me is educational leadership. So I went back to school at USF and worked towards my master's in educational leadership, and so I thought, I'm just gonna get it, it'll be fine, you know. And then you you start making connections even at grad school, where my finance professor, Dr. Bookman, his wife was a principal in the same district who needed an assistant principal, and just so happened, it was right in the middle of a school year, like in October. So I interviewed, I got the job, and I didn't expect to have to not only go into administration as an assistant principal, but on Friday being a second grade teacher, and then on Monday being an assistant principal, and that was quite an experience. So it happened quickly once I decided to make that move. And so when you have people that are out there kind of encouraging you, you have to listen. And when Mrs. Bass said something who I very much respected, I needed to listen. And then when my professors were telling me you really need to look at this position who I who I respected, you listen, and you hopefully you know you make the best choice for you and your family along the way, and yeah, it just kind of worked out good. And yeah, never look back.

Principal JL 15:00

There you go. So, as an assistant principal, what were some of your roles, your duties that you had to do, and what are some things, what are some experiences you had as an assistant principal that helped you like form your leadership that you have?

Nick Holtvluwer 15:16

Yeah, I remember being so nervous to send out my first email. I remember like, all right, I gotta check this thing over. This is not going to like a few parents, this is going to like teachers and the whole staff. And so I probably combed over that first email for any kind of mistakes or grammatical errors for like an hour. I was so nervous, even to send out the first email. And the thought of getting on the overhead speaker to make an announcement was terrifying, right? And that stuff you just got taken for granted when you're a teacher, it just happens. Emails go out, the overhead announcements go on. You don't think much of it, but when you got to do it, it's it was those little things made me incredibly nervous. And I'll never forget, I came from a very more affluent school where I was a teacher, more high social economic class, and then I went to a school that had a little bit lower social economic, and they had what's called an effective needs program. So I was just sitting in my office, I don't I don't know really what to do. A few days ago I was teaching second grade math, and now I'm just sitting here, and uh a teacher just runs by my office, throws her head real quick, and says, We got a runner. We got a runner, and I was like, Wait, what kids do that? I had no idea. I had no idea that would a kid would be so disruptive just to leave the building, and that was an eye-opener. So I got real good at you know being able to being able to track down kids who maybe who eloped. That was something new. So those things you never learn in college, you have to do right away on day one as an assistant principal. But it was I was there for about three years, and it was a very rewarding experience because you learn so much, and it's uh it's probably the definition of you know, drinking through the fire hose.

Principal JL 17:10

Yeah, yeah, but I remember a few times where I we had some kids at my last district that would elope or run out the building. They gotta realize our our with a K 12 district and it was out in the middle of the country. So they're to it as a cornfield. So when the kids are running, I mean, they're getting out on the highway. So we've had a few times where we're like, oh great, we have to go out there and get them back in, and you know, yeah, I I remember a few times having to deal with some kids that decided they were just gonna take off and and they were special needs kids. So it's kind of like they don't like they don't realize the danger they're about putting themselves into. And so you're trying to like get them where they need to go and call the parents and let them know everything's fine and yeah, it's it's there's things that people don't realize that you do when they're in the classroom teaching. They don't realize the things that you're managing, they don't realize the fires you're putting out, they don't realize the people that are coming in and you know, you know, they want to have a conversation, good, positive, and different, who cares? But you're always constantly got something going on from one day to the next. And I found out that no two days are the same.

Speaker 2 18:27

Never.

Principal JL 18:28

Yeah, there's always something that you're not prepared for that you're just like, really? I gotta do this now.

Nick Holtvluwer 18:35

I can think of so many stories. Like even your first staff meeting, standing in the front of all the teachers, and I was like, Do I did I look like that when I was a teacher sitting in the tables? Man, uh you know, was I the one with that scowl on my face? But yeah, you learn to to even manage staff meetings. Yeah, I'll I'll I'll I'll I'll never forget. There was like I wasn't leading a staff meeting, my principal's out for the day, and there were two teachers kind of getting into a a little bit of a heated argument, nothing nothing too crazy. And afterwards, other teachers came up to me and said I needed to put a stop to that. And I was like, Oh yeah, I guess I guess I should have taken more control over that situation. I was just sometimes you were just in teacher mode, not admin mode, and that was a switch I had to turn on quicker than I thought.

Principal JL 19:26

Yeah, no doubt. I mean, I've had a few times where some staff members would, you know, get a little bit too vocal with each other. All right, that's gonna stop right now. Like, you know, you have to look at those things, and when the first time you have to do it, it's kind of like whoa, like you know, that was crazy. This is crazy. You kind of get used to it sometimes, and you know like I've learned like the more you know your staff, and where I'm currently at, I'm about 75 teachers and about 45 classified staff. So I've gotten to know them over the last quarter really well. So I can kind of maybe head some things off before they go down a certain trail now, but it took some time to learn that before you can you know figure out how to how to you know go, oh, we better like go over here now.

Nick Holtvluwer 20:14

Divert, divert, we gotta figure something out. We gotta calm this situation down, yeah.

Becoming Principal And Raising Kids

Principal JL 20:20

All right, so you were assistant principal, and then what got you from assistant principal to building principal? I know you're in Tampa, and then you got out to Colorado as well, but you know what's the story behind becoming a principal?

Nick Holtvluwer 20:52

Yeah, so I was a principal, I was a principal in in Tampa, or assistant principal in Tampa. I had the opportunity to move back home to where I was my hometown in Grand Rapids, Holland, Michigan. And so I was able to secure my first principal role in Michigan. It was at a Title I building, and so it was kind of a little bit of a homecoming. My wife and I had our very first kiddo at the time, and so yeah, a little bit of the opportunity to become a principal in Tampa, they have a very long pathway, so to speak, be what you need to accomplish from being an assistant principal before you can even consider applying for principal roles. And I was in a position where I didn't, first of all, even want to be an assistant principal at the beginning to where I now I was really looking forward to the next step. So being able to kind of go right into a principal role in my hometown made a lot of sense and being close to family with a new baby in tow. So yeah, that that's where I got my first role as a principal, Title I building Woodside Elementary in West Ottawa, Michigan.

Principal JL 22:02

Awesome. So you went from Michigan and then you got yourself out to Denver, Colorado. And I think you're in the Parker area.

Nick Holtvluwer 22:10

I am. Yeah, my wife, she had an opportunity out here in like it's a little south of Parker, is a little south of Denver, Parker, Castle Rock. And so at that time, uh we were we had our third kid, and she had an opportunity out here, and so I had I went and you know put my name in in the hat for some positions out here in Douglas County and was lucky enough to land at Mammoth Heights Elementary, and it's been 10 years now, so and all my kids have come to school with me at Mammoth Heights since kindergarten, and now they're in one's in middle school now, about to go to high school next year, and two are still with me at Mammoth Heights, so yeah, that's a great experience as well. Just having to be able to have your kids with you through that whole elementary experience.

Principal JL 22:58

Yeah, no, and for me, I got to teach one of my kids algebra one. I was a first-time principal with my other one. Okay. So her junior and senior year, dad was the principal of the high school, you know. So that was you know, that was a little challenging you know, during that time. And then we have a fifth grader right now, and so she started in the you know, other school Southern Valley as a kindergartner and a first grader. So it was really nice 'cause she could just come over to my office and hang out after school and you know times that just hey, get on the bus. And go home. So it's nice to have around, but then when you move to you know this job at Hastings, she's in a totally separate building. I'm over up to high school. She's at an elementary. So that took some time for her to get used to because she's used to jabbing around. And then now it's fine. Now she's gonna be a sixth grader going to middle school and I'm like, oh my god.

Speaker 2 23:57

Yeah.

Principal JL 23:58

It won't be long until she's up at the high school with me. I'm kinda like, oh, you know, by but by that time I'll be established um in my role and it it will be just fine. I think it was a little harder on my middle child when I was the principal because she was a junior in high school, junior senior. I wasn't really established in my role. And there's some I'll just say there were some challenges.

Speaker 2 24:22

Yeah.

Principal JL 24:23

You never think of, and it's hard on your kids sometimes uh when you are that building principal because people think you're doing things because your kids telling you things, and that's not 100% true, like you have to keep professionalism and and uh I found too it's it's the after school stuff that it was is probably the most challenging.

Nick Holtvluwer 24:44

I did not expect was all these birthday parties that my kids get invited to that now I have to go, and now I'm the dad, and also kind of still the principal. And it's those were the weird situations, at least at the elementary level, is is the after school events when you have to like determine if you're gonna go to this event as the dad or the principal, or you know what? I'm just gonna send my I'm just gonna send Mrs. Hope Floor, she can take care of that one. So it does get you out of a few things too.

Principal JL 25:13

Yeah. I know for me, like it's one of those things where you know your kids' friends get to see you in a different light, and they feel when you're at work, and so that's that's a little bit different too, because you know, your kids call you a certain name, and next thing you know, their friends are like, No, I'm at work, so you gotta call Mr. Lyndon. Uh you know, it's there's just some of those things. It's it's fine, but it's just one of those weird things you don't think about until you get in the role. And it doesn't for me, it doesn't matter if I'm going as a dad. It d it didn't matter. They wanted to talk shop everywhere you went, especially when you're in a small district. I'm like, well, dude, I'm here to like just dad. And you know, at the district I'm at, I can do that a little bit better because people like people give you that space a little bit more. But when I was in that smaller district, it was like you know, it was they wanted to know about anything and everything, what's going on in school. They also like to, you know, give you their advice on what they would do and how they would do something.

Speaker 2 26:15

That's true.

Culture Hiring And PLCs That Work

Principal JL 26:17

I was a head football coach all over again, and I had that too. Okay, what ways I should run. You know, and I was like, well, you know, you like coaching? Here's an application. So what are some things at Mammoth Mammoth Height that you're like really proud of? You've been there for 10 years.

Speaker 2 26:37

Yeah.

Principal JL 26:38

What are some things that you've done there to really help that school grow and become the school they are today?

Nick Holtvluwer 26:46

First of all, I came in just we we wanted to establish a positive climate and culture. That was a big deal. That was one of my strengths when I when I first became a principal and I and at Woodside in Michigan, where I had I was the like fourth principal in four years. And so I realized pretty quick it's you gotta you gotta really do what you can to create a positive climate and culture, and you can never let your foot off the gas on that. No matter what other initiatives you may have, that are either a district-led initiative or a school-led initiative, climate and culture, making sure your teachers feel supported, making sure the community is building, we're building trust in our community of parents and teachers. So that was a big part of what I had to do at Mammoth Heights as well, is just to build establish trust with my community and teachers. Let them know I'm there to support them and give them the resources they need to be successful. So that was a big first step. And I learned never ever take your foot off the gas on that. And then I would tell you, I'm real proud of how we've done a job of hiring teachers. I think that's a really important job as a building leader, is who you hire and the people you have around you. And so, you know, I remember when we had a principal who was in our district who retired after 17 years of being a principal at the same building. I thought to myself, wow, 17 years at one building. I bet you that guy hired every person in that building. And I thought to myself, okay, I've been here, and this was a few years ago, I've been here like six years, and I kind of went through the roster in my head and realized I've almost hired every teacher in this building in six years. So it can go quickly on who you have to bring in and how they can then influence that climate and culture that you want to continue to create within your building. So, really proud of the hiring that we've done. I'm really proud of all of our teachers. That's why I send my kids to my same school. I wouldn't want to send them anywhere else because I know the quality of educators that are in our building, and we do that through you know, a committee on who we hire. So, diligence in hiring the right people that fit your climate and culture and the vision that you have for your school. So, establishing a positive climate and culture, and then hiring those people to do that, and then lately it's been the PLC process. So, kind of going back to what we talked about in not having to do this job alone, and that PLC process helps to foster collaborative conversations, problem solving that can happen within that PLC, and then being able to utilize the skills that each teacher can bring to the table and how that can help every child, not just the kids in your class, but every child in the building. So all that stuff.

Speaker 2 29:52

Yeah.

Principal JL 29:52

Would I be comfortable putting my own child in that teacher's classroom? And if my answer's no, we're gonna hire you. If the answer is yes, then it's more likely, yeah, you're probably gonna come on. And I know for us, I'm gonna ask you this because I know like when we're hiring, we want to hire great teachers. And we kinda have a a process. We have questions, we have scenarios, we have things we purposely do in the interviews to see the responses, and really we really look at those responses really critically because we know how they respond to these specific scenarios or questions. Will tell us a lot about their philosophy and how they are the teacher. So, do you do some of the same things? I think because I I call it like we mess with them. Like we mess with other people and we ask them questions, and sometimes they're just like flabbergasted. I've never, you know, been asked some of these questions, or I've never had to even think about this type of question when I was, you know, you know, you they don't think about some of this stuff. Do you do some of that stuff too?

Nick Holtvluwer 31:03

Yeah, obviously, we have a lot of questions that our committee kind of combs through. I have two questions on the interview list that I ask every time. And so one's kind of a simple one. I think a lot of people ask this question, but I put so much stock into it because it means something that the question is what you know, basically, what do you know about mammoth heights and why do you want to join our mammoth heights community? And if it's if they've done zero research, it's so obvious. I think I want people that have like are like they're begging to be in this place because they've done their research, they know what we're all about. I'm gonna tell you, Jeff, I'm not hard to find, right? So I think I think I'm not hard to find. Deion Sanders says that I'm not hard to find. You can find what we're doing on social media, on our website, on YouTube. There's so much things that we're doing. If you don't know what we're about, you did like zero research. If you just plug Mammoth Heights Elementary into a Google search, you're gonna find out all about us. So that's the first question. Like if they say, well, you know, uh you can always tell they're struggling through it. So that's the first question. If they don't pass, I lose a little bit of interest. And the second question I ask all the time, and I'm a big John Gordon fan. I don't know if you heard of John Gordon with the energy bus. I'm a big John Gordon fan, and I listen to his podcast, and a lot of the times he'll ask this question. It's called this triple H question. I'm not sure if you've heard of it. And since most people call me Mr. H at my school, I like this question because it's the triple H question. I asked the teachers, the potential candidates, who who's a hero of yours? What's a personal or professional highlight, and what would be a hardship you've faced? So hero, hardship, highlight. And so I learned so much from that question because their personalities come out, and most times a really good candidate will talk about their hero, how their hero got them through a hardship, and then how that hardship turned into a highlight. So when I see how all those three things are connected on their answer, I know I'm on to I have a pretty good candidate. And no matter what they said and their instructional practices, I'm sure it was all good. They know all the buzzwords, but I'm always curious about who their hero is, the hardships they faced, and their personal professional highlight. And I've heard it all, Jeff. I've heard it all. Somebody said that their hero was themselves once, and so I was like, okay, I'm not sure how to accept that as an answer, but let's go with it. But hero hardship highlight gives me a lot of feedback that you don't necessarily get on some of those more standardized interview questions.

Principal JL 33:57

No, I love it. I mean, I'm a big John Gordon fan too. The very first book I read as an educator was The Energy Bus. Yeah, I still have the Energy Bus. I've read it a few times. I actually have it on Audible as where I'll listen to it at times. But it's one of the books I've read more than once. Um I actually have things in my office that talk about the ten rules, you know, to the right of your life. So I mean it's posted. You come in my office, you'll see posted. I got a lot out of that. And I was just, you know, at that time I was teaching, I was coaching, but it's just so true even now today, you know, it still resonates just with education in general.

Nick Holtvluwer 34:40

Absolutely.

Social Media To Share Positives

Principal JL 34:41

So I really love those two. We don't exactly do the three H's exactly like you do. We have very similar type questions that we'll ask, but we get to know what are something you're proud of, what are some things you know what's something that you're proud of a highlight, right? What is something that's challenged you? How did you learn and grow from that? Because we want to know if you're reflective, if you can through things and understand that hey, you know, I'm gonna learn through these things and I'm gonna become better because of that, because that shows us what a growth mindset. Yeah, and that's what we want.

Nick Holtvluwer 35:18

A reflective teacher is so powerful. Oh, absolutely so powerful.

Principal JL 35:24

Did you hire the one that said their heroes themselves? No, no. All right, Nick. I want to kind of get into social media a little bit. One of the first things that I, you know, I mean, I follow you on Facebook and you post a lot. You do like pe you know, public service announcements, TSAs. You do, I mean, you do all kinds of things. You I mean, I don't want to get into the the comedy part yet, but what got you into doing like the videos and TikToks and the things that you post out there? What was it that said, I'm gonna start doing this? And then what kind of impact have you been seeing as you've done those things? And you do it not just for yourself, but you do it for your school too.

Nick Holtvluwer 36:08

Absolutely, yeah. And so I can remember exactly when I started with social media, and I think it clicked with me because I had that communications background, right? That that time in my life that I thought I wasted working in television and communications has now come back. When I heard a speech uh by George Koros, uh, he's a keynote speaker. I don't know if you read the book, The Innovator's Mindset, but he gave a speech at a keynote at a conference I was at, and he talked about what we need to do to put more positive out into the world of education to drown out all the negative. And so that really resonated with me when I heard that. And so I wanted to be able to put as much positive out there to be reflective of what's happening in our schools, then all the negative. And so started with Twitter and started a handle for our school and just started just posting every day. It was a goal. You had to set a goal for yourself to be able to put out content, and it takes work to be able to do that. So putting out content through Twitter was a big part of it, and then that kind of morphed into I read a I read a conversation on I read a it was like a blog post by George Coros about, hey, this new thing called TikTok's coming out, and educators are taking advantage of it. And this was like 2019, 2020. So I said, yeah, let's I'm gonna I'm gonna get involved in in the TikTok as well. And it kind of hit at almost the same time the pandemic hit. So I used social media in that moment to create that connection that we were lacking because of online learning and other things that were happening in the world to connect what was happening in education that think good things were still happening, even though we may be in our homes and our teachers are in their homes, but we're still connecting. And I always had this YouTube video, YouTube channel that I did a morning show, and and I've been doing a morning show for probably 13 years on on YouTube, even at my old school. And so, even things like that were able to continue and keep consistency through the difficult time of COVID. So kids could every morning know I can at least watch the morning show before I log on with my teacher face to face. They're gonna see Mr. H in this difficult time and have maybe maybe be a stabilizing force. So, yeah, a lot of those things kind of help morph what we wanted to do to always make connections with our community and put more positive than negative.

Principal JL 39:25

You bet. And I and I totally subscribe to that wholeheartedly. What got me going in is talking about branding your school. I actually saw Joe San Filippo at a convention and he talked about branding your school and the social media power that you can have and having people see the positives so you can outweigh the negatives. Because a lot of people I mean, we have this thing in Hastings called the Hastings complaint page. You might have something similar out there in your guys' area as well, but I don't get on it. I I I don't care what's on it. You know, sometimes we talk about the school, they talk about a lot of crazy stuff. My thing is is I don't try to dwell. We try to put out positive messaging in our school. And one of the things that we did when I got here, the school had a low social media platform, we didn't put a lot of content out. So it's really hard to like know what's going on with the school, and we have a lot of great things. So now, four years later, our teachers, we have I have a con digital content creator that manages all the content that goes out. They go, we do five posts a day. We have like we have all these like systems in place, and teachers can put posts. I encourage them, hey, show all the great things you're doing. They've done a really nice job of showing all the things that we do. And one of the one of the coolest things I got this year when interviewing, and I kind of asked some questions like why Hastings, and I'm trying to get them like what kind of research have you done? Is kind of what I what I'm trying to figure out. And I've had people reference some of our posts, and that made me go, see it's working. I want to be a part of you guys because we see all the great things you're doing, and we want to be a part of that. That that's why I I'm I'm a huge believer in that. And to be honest with you, when you put out personal content like you and I do sometimes, it's a little scary because you're like, I don't know how people are gonna take it, but you get used to it. Like, I'm first that first time I posted, I was scared to death. I don't want people like bagging on me, you know. Right, that's true. And they do, they will. I'm just like, well, it's hard to be in a person. So with that, you know, what got you into comedy? Like, I see you out, you do some comedy shows, and what kind of what kind of uh sets do you do? Yeah, do you talk about education? Talk about anything, everything.

Speaker 2 41:56

Oh, yeah.

Principal JL 41:57

Some of it. So yeah, take us through that whole process.

Stand Up Comedy As Growth Practice

Nick Holtvluwer 42:00

What got you going and go into comedy works and yeah, I know comedy like jokes and comedy were always a part of my life. I remember I wrote my first joke book in fifth grade, and I made copies of it, and I sold them to all my buddies for 25 cents a piece. That was I jokes were always like always in my life. I was doing dad jokes, I think before I was there were dad jokes, and and so knowing that I just always loved comedy, listened to comedy, like I was a I was a nut about it, even in college, and there was not as many resources as there are now when I was in college. I was in college in the 90s, so no videos or anything. I was just reading and listening to CDs and and audio cassettes, and then I said, I'm gonna try it. And I did stand up at a college talent show when I was a sophomore in college, and it was the most fun I ever had. I don't know why I stopped. I just did. Maybe I thought, let's just do it as a goal, and and then never never never thought about doing it again. And then a few years ago, every every year I we have a talent show at my school, and I'm the host of the talent show. And of course, whenever I'm in front of a crowd, I'm not gonna pass up that opportunity to go into my jokes, right? So I'm I'm hosting, I'm telling jokes, and then there was a lady who came up to me one year after the talent show and said, Hey, have you ever thought about doing stand-up comedy? I'm like, you know, I did it a long time ago. Back in college, it was it was a dream of mine a long time ago. She's like, You should get back into it. And I said, Well, in I'm like, Well, in my head, I'm like, Well, what do you know about comedy? You know, well, her granddaughter was in the show, and and she was the grandma of her, and she was a professional comedian at at comedy works. So she gave me her card. I'm like, oh, maybe she knows something, she does it for a living. And so she was been kind of a mentor to me to push me out of my side of my comfort zone, and that's another the reason why I started to do it again, because I'm a big believer in stepping outside your comfort zone and then not only saying it, but modeling it. And I can't think of anything else harder to do and to step outside your comfort zone than to get up on stage and tell jokes and hope people laugh, right? So that dream kind of got reignited again through another person, right? Who kind of like encouraged me to do it when I never thought I would ever do it again. And so little by little been going on stage. Denver has a pretty, pretty cool system for people that want to get into stand-up comedy with new talent night at comedy works. I've been doing that for about two years now. Took some classes at Comedy Works, opened mics, and was lucky enough to kind of reach out to some other comedians who are former teachers, and they just do a teacher show. I reached out to them and I said, I would I would love to someday maybe be on your show. And they're like, How about you can be on the next one? We'll give you five minutes. I'm like, this is great. This is my audience, it's all teachers, and that's what I I kind of just stick to like what we do as as a principal, as an educator, it's all clean and tells stories and and puns and one-liners just about everyday life. I'll throw some some observational type humor about being married and kids, and but usually it's just it's a perspective from a school principal, and it's been I would say pretty well received, and it's been so much fun. It's a skill that you can take back to the school where you're talking in front of people, it's public speaking. But in the in the end, it was just about like sticking to a big time philosophy of mine is stepping outside your comfort zone, and and that's how you grow. And so I thought to myself, I've been a principal now for almost 13, 14 years. There's really not a lot that surprises me or shocks me anymore. Of every day's different, but nothing like has like I've seen it a lot. I've seen a lot at all. Why not just like go up on stage and and get that heart pumping again of not knowing what to expect? And so yeah, it's been a it's been a fun journey and And yeah, I met some great people along the way, and it's actually kind of refocused what as of what we do as principals to refocus my energy in a lot of different ways.

Principal JL 47:18

I appreciate uh man, that's a lot of a lot of insight prayer. And I really love how, like, you know what, you're able to take something that you know I'm stepping out of my comfort zone, something I haven't done in a while. Uh, what a great message you can send your kids and staff as you know, hey, I do things that I'm not comfortable with, and here we go, right? Like you talk to them about trying a new strategy. I talked about to my staff all the time, don't be afraid of failure. Because if you're afraid of failure, you're not gonna grow, you're not gonna get better because you're gonna be too afraid to fail. And one of my biggest things, as I've gotten better at this the last four years, is getting in front of my staff and talking and presenting and all that stuff because I didn't have to do that as much.

Speaker 2 48:04

Yeah.

Leadership Advice And Final Laughs

Principal JL 48:05

But now it's kind of like almost like I have to because of my position. I'm at a bigger school, and I have to get good at this. And it's led me to opportunities for Zen at our state conference. And then again this this summer, you know, my my my presentation is gonna be called Be the Chain. And so, you know, what can we do as principals to be the chain for your schools before your teachers and for your community? So there's a little teaser if you're gonna come to Nebraska. I'll be doing that this summer, that'll be fun. But yeah, like it's just you know, your the the things that you've done has prepped you up to this point, and you have some great content. I've listened to it, and I love comedy. I love comedy. I can I can sit here and listen to comedy, and there's a lot of good people out there that you may not know, and that's probably why I started watching because you're just funny, and I just like I just love listening to like like where you come up. I know a lot of it's like just your personal experience, but I'm like going, I'm too scared to say some things because I'm worried that people are gonna go, they're talking about me, and there's some funny stuff out there. Oh, yeah, there's some stories that we could tell that are hilarious. There's people out there that you're like going, you know what? If I could, you know, do this. I mean, sometimes take people because you can't believe you're having to have some conversations, but it's another podcast down the road. Right on. That's true. But when it comes down to it, you've been a principal, a leader for a long time, you've got a lot of great things going. You know, what advice would you give somebody that's thinking about taking that next step? Hey, I want to become an educational leader. What advice would you give them?

Nick Holtvluwer 49:58

Yeah, so it didn't when I first became an assistant principal and I had to learn quickly, I was I was kind of under the impression that I, or maybe the delusion that I was gonna do everything I could to make everybody happy. And I couldn't tell you how much I hated the job when I tried to make everybody happy, and I thought it could be done. And you sometimes hear you'll never make everybody happy, you never will. And I was, you know, I was my head was in the clouds enough to say I I could do it, I can make everybody happy. And I sure as heck tried to try to make everybody happy, but the more I tried to make everybody happy, I became less my job became less enjoyable as an administrator. And it didn't take me long to realize, all right, this isn't going in the direction I thought it would. I need to reset, I need to re-right, I need to reflect my practice. And so I decided, you know what, I'm just gonna make decisions that I know is best for my school, that's best for kids, that's best for teachers. Some kids aren't gonna like it, some parents aren't gonna like it, and some teachers aren't gonna like it, but that's okay. And the minute I started to have that mentality of I'm gonna do what's best for our school and for our kids and for the teachers, everything kind of fell fell into place. And I started to enjoy the job, and I started to understand how to deal with conflict when teachers disagreed with the decision, which in my head I was like, I just I can't even imagine going to Mrs. Bass, who I talked to about before, and telling her in her in her office that I disagree with her. I just I just didn't believe I didn't think that would happen. And then when it started happening to me, I just had to also I also just had to say, okay, you know, when it comes to being a leader, you're you're not gonna be able to make everybody happy. And that's okay. And then in doing that, never have never even though you give so much for yourself of yourself to your students and to your community and to your teachers, never expect it to be come back to you. That was that was another big lesson that uh I I always thought, okay, I'm gonna be I'm gonna do all these things for my community, and I'm gonna get so much love back. I'm gonna build up so much capital back that I'll be able to do anything. Everyone's gonna be so thankful for everything I've done for them. And I've learned that that's not always the case, and don't expect it to come back because uh early on in my career, I expected it it, I expected all my goodwill to come back to me, and that was another lesson. So don't worry about making everybody happy, do what's best for your school, and don't expect everything that you do to support your your community to come back to you. You just do it, you just you just do what you gotta do.

Principal JL 52:54

Yeah, I think you do those things because you care about your community, you care about you care about your school, and you want what's best for them, and those things come back in time, but it may be years down the road. Yeah, you're absolutely right. It's not gonna be right away. That's true. That is true. Some of my most gratifying moments in education is when I hear from a former student, a former teacher, a former, you know, somebody I've impacted and not realize it. And when they come tell you their story, you're like, oh, the work I do does matter. Because in the time you don't think it does, or you don't think you have an impact, but you do. And I think that's what makes education special because you will find out years down the road that you impacted somebody you never thought you would have impacted. And I think those are things you take and you run with it. Like those are the moments that you're like, this is why I do what I do, and I really like the fact that you can't make everybody happy because guess what? I always joke, like, half of you love me, half of you hate me. Like, I know that. Like, I'm not going to, you know, I'm not gonna sit here and sweat the small stuff. I'm gonna have a teacher not mad at or not happy with me about a decision that they didn't like. Well, guess what? This is a decision, this is what we're gonna do. And I don't come up with these decisions by myself. I use a collective group of people to help me make these decisions, not just me sitting up there on my little throne telling people what to do. I'm not a dictator. I actually bring people we make decisions as a team, and we say, you know what, this is what the team decided, and we move forward and we go that direction. And not everybody's gonna be happy. And if you think you're gonna do that, you are gonna bang your head against the wall. You know, you don't want to be doing that too much because uh that that burns you out, and it's and you don't want to do the job, so yeah, you're you're absolutely right.

Nick Holtvluwer 54:54

You're you're never in it alone as a teacher, and you're never in it alone as a principal, and you still have the ability to lean in on the expertise of all the stakeholders around you.

Principal JL 55:06

You bet. So, Nick, you have a lot of great things going on. And if people are listening to this podcast, how could they connect with you, learn more about you? Where can they go to find it, Jeff?

Nick Holtvluwer 55:19

So, yeah, I'm on TikTok at Nick Hopefloor, Instagram, Nick Hopefloor, and then on YouTube, uh Nick Hopefloor. Yeah, I'd love for anybody to follow along. And yeah, we like to have fun at our school. We like to tell some jokes, we like to have, you know, it's uh it's not an easy job, it's a sometimes a thankless job, but what we like to do is put out more positive than the negative that's out there in the world and have fun along the way for our teachers and for our students.

Principal JL 55:48

Okay, and what I'll do is I'll put all that information down in the show notes so they can come and find you right away and get connected. And so, you know, Nick, before we go, do you have like your favorite joke that you would like to tell us? Like you don't have to do, like, do you have like, hey, this is kind of like you know, one of my favorite staple jokes? Like, I have dad jokes and people hate them, but you know, I like to joke around, but I mean I'm not you know, I it's you know yeah, I remember the very first joke I ever heard.

Nick Holtvluwer 56:19

I must I must have been like three. My dad told it to me. I don't know if I really understood it right away, but throughout the years I now understand it. But the the joke is how do you catch a unique rabbit? Unique up on it, and uh, and then my dad would say, How do you catch a tame rabbit tame way? There you go. My very first joke I ever heard.

Principal JL 56:51

There you go. Like some of the jokes I would do as a math teacher is like, What did a baby acorn say when it grew up? What's that? Gee, I'm a tree.

Nick Holtvluwer 57:04

So, my favorite joke. Here's my favorite joke I do on stage that I wrote. All right, I would say that teacher evaluation is one of the least favorite parts of my job. I had to ask my music teacher why all the singing kids were asking so many questions. And he said, they inquire. So there you go.

Principal JL 57:30

That's a good one. Yeah, no, it's ever yeah, it's great stuff, man. Nick, I really appreciate you being on the show tonight. Do you have any final thing you'd like to say before we go?

Nick Holtvluwer 57:41

Oh, first of all, I just want to say thank you, Jeff, for having me. And it's always inspiring to talk with other educators across the country and to share ideas, share thoughts. So I'm honored that you asked to have me on the show. And yeah, thank you so much. Good luck as our teachers and schools finish up this school year. And if you're in Denver, I'll be with the Unteachables at Comedy Works South on June 3rd.

Principal JL 58:05

You bet. Check it out, guys. If there's one thing I took from this conversation, it's this leadership doesn't have to be rigid to be effective. It can be real, it can be human, and yes, it can even be funny. Nick Holtvluwer is a great example of what it looks like to lead with heart, connect with people where they are, and bring a little joy into profession that needs it. If you found value in today's episode, make sure to subscribe and share with another educator and continue the conversation. And as always, in order to be the change, be curious and 1% better. Oh yeah, may the 4th be with you.