Episode 72: Principal Mo on AI, Leadership, and the Future of Education: Practical Strategies for Today's School Leaders

Principal JL 0:00

Have you heard of the hit show The Rules to Engagement? Have you wondered how you can leverage AI to streamline your workload as an educational leader? Well, today's guest is no stranger to both of those things. Today I'm excited to bring back Principal Mo. Now, Principal Mo was one of my first guests that I interviewed way back 18 months ago. And she's episode 14, so go ahead and uh take a listen to that episode so you can get a feel of who Principal Mo is. But at the same time, this conversation is us catching up on all the awesome things she's doing. Because guess what? After that episode aired, she just blew up all over the place. She's on TikTok, Instagram, she's been a speaker at multiple conferences. She's doing the rules to engagement show that is produced and directed with Principal Rahh. And that is just a really great show. I would I I would highly recommend that you check it out. She's also been somebody that has really taken AI and used it to streamline the workload that she does as an acting principal. So I hope you guys really enjoy the conversation

Principal Mo Returns And What’s New

Principal JL 1:20

that I have with Principal Mo as we catch up. Now let's get to the conversation with Principal Mo. Welcome back to another exciting episode of the Educational Leadership Podcast. Today I'm so excited to bring back on the show Principal Mo. Principal Mo, welcome back to the show.

Principal Mo 1:48

Thank you, JL, for having me back. It's been so good. It's been a while, but we we got a lot of catching up to do.

Principal JL 1:55

Yeah, it's been a minute. I know the last time I saw you was out in Seattle, and so I got to, you know, connect with you there. But really, over the past 12 to 18 months since you've been on the show, you've kind of blown up. You've kind of done a lot of stuff out there when it comes to just being a principal, being an advocate, all the different things you're doing. So I'm gonna give you an opportunity to say, hey, what have you been up to the last 12, 18 months? Because I see you all over the place now.

Principal Mo 2:28

Yeah, so I I have been a little bit of a busy B. I feel like when we recorded your podcast session and we talked, it was just like after that, I just didn't slow down. So since I talked to you last, we recorded and put out the the first season of the Rules to Engagement TV show, which is a live education show that features educators and it's myself. I am the administrative representation of the show. And then there are three other people who are teachers, and yeah, that that was an experience, and it in itself is so good. And so we're right now we're in the middle of planning season two. So we're really excited about that to be planning and preparing to record season two. And since we talked, I've done quite a few sessions at a host of different conferences from our women's conference through MASSP, also the United Conference in Seattle, did a boom session there at my state conference, actually did a uh a session about remixing leadership and using DJing as a form of engagement. So that was fun. I've presented at the National School Board Conference twice since I've talked to you. And KnowlegCon. KnowlegCon was this Past January, which was awesome. So and I've been talking about a lot of different things AI, leadership, you know, transforming and kind of remixing what leadership looks like. So it's been it's pretty pretty awesome.

Principal JL 4:06

You bet, yeah. No, and you still got your TikToks going, your Instagram? That's that's that's always gonna be going on. That's always going, but that's like on top of the things you've been doing. Now, how did you kind of get into like the TV show The Rules to Engagement? How did that come along?

Principal Mo 4:25

It's it's not a normal story, so it's not like what anything anybody would think. So so funny. Uh, the executive producer of the rules of engagement is actually Principal Amen Rahh. He is the revolutionary educator and he is the founder and CEO of Knowleg. So I have been following him and his work for quite a while. And and I actually met him in where were we? The the in 2020, the 2024 United Conference in Nashville. I actually met him for the first time in Nashville in person. And so we actually got to sit down and we had a really great conversation. We probably sat and talked for like probably two hours while we were waiting for like concurrent sessions to start. And so from there we kept in touch and he actually reached out to me because he wanted me to, you know, be more involved with knowledge and his and his company. And then I had a meeting with him. He was like, I was hoping you would, you know, be on board with this. And then I had another meeting, like not even a week later, and he was like, I want to create a TV show, and you're gonna be on the show. And I said, What are you talking about? And he said, No, seriously, he's

From Conference Chat To TV Show

Principal Mo 5:46

like, I got I got this girl Alexia, and I, you know, I've been talking to Shivvy about doing it, and then Shivvy is gonna talk to this guy named CJ about doing it. Then he was like, We're going to fly out to fly you guys out to LA, you're gonna record the show and all of that. And I told him he was crazy. I was like, You're crazy. What are you talking about? And so we that was January. So it was January, and then we were all brought together for the love of knowledge. It was like a attendance, it was an attendaton. So we were trying to get people to have more awareness about attendance and chronic absenteeism. And and and then after that, that March, we filmed the the first season. So literally two months, and it's it's been a journey, and then ever since then, it's just been you know, doing lives with the crew. That's what we call ourselves now, myself, Shivi, CJ, and Alexia. And nobody knew that. I don't think anybody really knew this like prior to, but we really all didn't know each other that well. Like certain people knew each other, but like as a collective group, like we did not really know each other that well, but we really gel well together as a as a group and as co-hosts. So it's been really fun working with them and being in a community with them and working on season two. So, but that's that's honestly how it happened.

Principal JL 7:18

Yeah, that's kind of cool. That's kind of cool. And I have watched all the episodes of uh Rule to Engage Rules, the rules of engagement. Don't want to get that mixed up with the movie show Rules of Engagement, the rules to engagement, the show, and it's been really fun to watch you guys kind of work together. I did watch a few of your guys' like live where you guys come together and talk about things as well. And so I think yeah, you guys have a lot of good chemistry, it's a lot of fun just to listen to the different perspectives and you know, kind of just follow that that show and the journey you got. So that's kind of cool. You guys are getting ready for season two, so be watching out for that. And now, could you tell people what Knowleg is like the company? Because uh people may not know exactly what that is, and kind of what principal raw is trying to do there.

Principal Mo 8:09

Okay, so Knowleg is a company that is set out to combat chronic advantageism, and so it is all about rewarding, restoring, and re-engaging our students and and through through gamification. So it's the AI powered gamification app, actually. It's uh in the platform where you can connect students, like you know, learning apps and things like that, and it collects their attendance data and it rewards the students, and they can actually go to an online store and select things to buy, like they get, they earn like essentially points, and they can go on there and buy things, but it's things they want, like beats his phones, Jordan's, you know, AirPods, like you know, all those stuff that kids want, you know, all the new technology, gift cards, you know, Robux and and all of those things, uh, V-Bucks, all the bucks. So, and and it focuses on rewarding students for coming to school and learning in school every day. So, and and I know there's more that they they keep developing more and more now. They're getting into actually rewarding families for bringing students to school and things like that. So it's uh it's a really, really cool company that's really trying to combat chronic absenteeism and make schools

Knowleg App And Attendance Rewards

Principal Mo 9:29

make schools fun again.

Principal JL 9:31

You bet. Yeah, no, and I kind of seen some of the advertisements they do, and I've kind of looked at it a little bit. It's really an interesting uh, you know, way to to look at combating chronic absenteeism. And I definitely would encourage you guys to check it out if that's something you're interested in. And like you said, there's things that you know, you know, we've we've done those stores before, right? Where their kids don't really want the stuff that's in those stores.

Principal Mo 9:58

No, all the stuff that's from training, they don't want that.

Principal JL 10:01

Yeah, no, they want like they want this like you the stuff you're talking about. They want an iPad, they want the joy, they want you know, they want the stuff they can go to the store, or maybe they can't get, but if they know if they have good attendance and they save up their points, they could go get that themselves and earn that right for them. So I think it's a really great idea, and something that is really kind of taken off probably over the last 12 to 18 months. A lot of more schools are getting involved with it, from what I could see with that. I think the rules to engagement show is also helping that. And now you also have KnowledgeCon. Is that their big conference they do?

Principal Mo 10:39

Yes. So last year, well, not even last year, this is it's still in this year. Woo! So KnowlegCon in it was January 2026, was the first KnowlegCon. And so we plan on having the second having the second one in January 2027, Martin Luther King Jr. Weekend. And so the first KnowlegCon was awesome. It is not, it is not like any conference I've ever been to. And I've been to like a thousand conferences within like the last like three or four years, and it is it's just really different. Like, you know, I if you want to just experience educators in the community in a different way and learning and just the overall engagement, would highly suggest you try to make it out to KnowlegCon.

Principal JL 11:27

No, I know. Yeah, that's awesome to hear. And you know, I would you know encourage everybody to give it a shot, see see what's out there. Maybe someday I can get out there. You know, I kind of pick my conferences a little bit because I only can go so when it comes down to that. So yeah, it is something that I kind of circle like, hey, maybe someday I can get to one of those down the road. With that, over the last 12 to 18 months, what are some things that you've learned, like, you know, as an educational leader that help you grow?

Principal Mo 11:59

You know what I've actually learned is I've just learned I am a one of my growth areas has always been delegation. It's always been that like not trying to do everything. And so people often ask, like, well, how are you able to run all this social media and go to these conferences and do these things? And one thing that I've been learning is that I can trust my team to do a lot more than what they've been doing. And having them tank the reins in some, in some ways, you know, running systems and fixing systems and coming up with solutions. Like, you know, they're more than capable of doing that. So it's really kind of forced me to kind of let go of some things that I just didn't need to hold on to or be responsible for anymore, and then ultimately build the capacity of members of my team.

Principal JL 12:53

You bet. And you're talking about the team you work with every day.

Principal Mo 12:56

Um at my team at my school.

Principal JL 12:59

Oh my god, do you have a the same the soul gig, the first gig. Yeah, the first gig, yeah, the gig where you got, and I think that you kind of talked about, you

Delegation Systems That Free You

Principal JL 13:11

know, hey, you built systems up so you know when you have to go do these other things, they're fine, they got their they're running the ship and they got everything. If something comes up, you know they can handle it because you've got things in place for that, and so I think that's really great, you know. And that's something I've had to learn. Like when I got my first principal job, I was all like scared to leave. The school's gonna blow up if I leave, right?

Principal Mo 13:38

You know, right have that Beyonce is gonna perform in the cafeteria if I'm not there, you know.

Principal JL 13:44

It's but then you learn once you put systems in, it's okay to go out and be able to do these things because as leaders, we gotta be able to have our own professional development and sitting in our office, the school isn't professional development. We gotta go out, we gotta you know, we gotta be with other people that would understand what we go through and what we do on a daily. So you have been leveraging AI a lot. I see. Yes. So you have a lot of content out there with AI. What has that been like? Because it sounds like you've been experimenting with some things, you might be trialing some things that maybe other people can at times. But what's that journey been like going through and using these different AI tools? And how has AI help you leverage the work that you do as an administrator?

Principal Mo 14:37

Oh my goodness. I at this point, I I don't want to say I don't know how to function without it because that's not true. But what I will say is that what I've been able to do just through a lot of curiosity, it has been really powerful for me in terms of getting certain things done. So before when I was like using AI, I was doing a lot of prompting and things like that. And now I've gotten into the world of automation and I've gotten in the world of making like my own essential, like making my own apps and things like that, which I have been trialing out for other people to use and thinking about how I can create applications that makes the principal ship or just school leadership that, you know, makes school leadership more sustainable, especially on the administrative side of things,

Vibe Coding Admin Apps With AI

Principal Mo 15:31

because we do so many, like we do so much paperwork. It's you know, it is it's like every other day there's something due and then we have to do it. So I've been just doing a lot of vibe coding around app development recently. So, and some of the things that I've been doing with that is creating like an AI, an AI-powered Eisenhower matrix. So that will also like, you know, scan your emails, figure out what you need to do, when you need to do it, who you need to delegate it to. So then kind of takes that mental load off of you, and then it can actually like automatically notify those people. Here's the task, this is what you have to get done. And then people can report back to you, like, you know, if they've completed it or not, or if they need assistance or support. So that's one that's one app that I've been working on. Another one is actually for conference speakers to like if they if you want to like know, because you don't know what conferences are out there, like you know the big ones, but there's a million of them. And so created another app where you can just search for different conferences that you want to speak at, and it'll pull up the RFP or the or the speaking application, and you can apply to speak. I mean, because you just don't know what's there. I'm also working on a scheduling and coverage app as well. Tell me about that one because we're we're tired of playing Sudoku when we're trying to do that's because we're trying, we're tired of it playing the Sudoku in the morning, trying to figure out who's gonna cover what when people are out. When you could just literally say, These people are not here, create a cover schedule for me and it'll spit it out.

Principal JL 17:18

No, that'd be great.

Both 17:20

I know my administrative assistant would love that because you're that's who's doing it, and yeah, no, I mean spending all the time doing that.

Principal JL 17:28

Yeah, no, and it's and it's one of those things to where we have a system to where we rotate people around, and so we just like we did our rough draft. So my rough draft of my master's schedule is about 95% done, right? Yeah, so we have it ready, but I have to wait for summer school to get the final numbers. There's a lot of other moving pieces, but for the most part, it's done, and during that time, we're trying to purposely put teachers into certain periods of the day for planning because we can't overload one period over another because we need to be able to spread out the love when it comes to cross-coveraging in our in our building, and like I said before, I mean, I have about seven, I have 75 teachers, you know, 120 adults in my building for one thing or another, but 75 of them are the teaching staff, and there's times where we have 15 people gone, and sometimes you know, it's just a lot going on with uh being a high school with all the activities, you know, all the sick days, you know how that goes. So a part of that deal is you know, trying to make sure we are balancing out who's covering what, making sure that everybody's getting their turn. So if they if you finish that app, I want you to send it over to me. I'm gonna go to the show.

Principal Mo 18:55

I gotta try it.

Principal JL 18:58

Yeah, we can try it out, man. Like I like we could try it out at my high school and we can figure out the the the little the little uh you know corks or whatever we gotta do to get that all ironed out because I I think my administrative assistant would love it because then like you said, it does take a mental load to figure those things out. And if you could have something that can just help you, and you all you have to do is like just double check it. Oh, yeah, it looks good and rhyme, yeah, you know, and send it out and send it out and be good to go. And I think that would be I I I would love that. I I really enjoy that. I know so the other stuff you can talk about finding conferences to speak at. There might be some people out there that are interested in doing those things that would know where to start. Yep, yeah, like I would be me, right? I would like to do more speaking engagements, but I don't know where to start, but I don't want to pay someone to do that because I have all these companies going, you pay us money, we'll get you gigs, but I don't want to pay you money to go get gigs. Yeah, like you know, I've had a lot of people reach out for me on those things, and I'm like, I stay away from them because I don't trust them. So there's my there's my thing. I I want it to be natural, right? I want to be able to like when things happen, they happen and we go from there. But nonetheless, those are some pretty cool things. Now, what is the one tool or AI tool that you use that have helped you the most over the past year? You know, streamline. I mean, you do a lot, I know, but if you had to pick just a couple of them, what were they and how has they helped helped you, you know, streamline the job and the work you do?

Principal Mo 20:41

So, I mean, I always have to say ChatGPT, I know people, they they some people don't like it because the outputs that they get are not great, but it it it it all depends upon what you put into it and the guardrails that you put in place. So if you don't have good guardrails and if it doesn't have a great sense of who you are, how how you write and things like that, yeah, it's not gonna work the best for you. But I use it so much that it can completely mimic the my tone, even my humor, and like in in just different things. But Chat GPT has been great. I've created a ton of GPTs, and that's how I started before I started getting into the the coding of the apps, and so I have like one GPT that helps with just like uh summarizing your your field notes from doing an observation, and it'll spit out the glows to grows and just some coaching questions for you. So then that way you're more, you know, you're not spending all your time trying to be prepared for the meeting, so then you can spend your time really doing the coaching as opposed to preparing to do the coaching. So that's like you know, just instructional leadership. But so chat has been really good for that, but also Gemini does some. Something very similar.

Practical AI Tools For Principals

Principal Mo 22:01

It's called gems. So people, you know, have told me about that. So I played with that for a little bit. But they're very similar. So it just depends on what you feel comfortable using, really. Also, Nobook LM has been really, really great when reviewing policy and different documentation. So, say for example, you know, when we're going and look at, you know, somebody says, oh, this is this is in the union contract, and da-da-da-da. And usually we have to go to the PDF document, do control F and then look for the keywords, and then click through. You don't have to do that with a book LM. You put you can create a notebook and it can consists of all these like very large wordy documents. And then you could just ask it a question to review those documents, and then it will give you the answer and then refer specifically to the piece of the document that where it found the answer. So that it's correct. So that's been really great with just like, you know, union questions, contract questions, policy, you know, different units, so that you make sure that you're, you know, you're doing and saying the right thing, so that it's just a way for you to easily reference those documents. I mean, that's two. I can keep going.

Principal JL 23:19

I know. Well, to be honest with you, the two that you pick are the two that I use it for, really. I do the same stuff. Like, I figured out like a really good prompt when I come in. So, what I do in my evaluations is I go in and I timestamp, okay, at this time, this is what I see. I just I just write down what I'm seeing. This is what the teacher is doing, this is what the kids are doing. I'm just putting down the facts and taking that and having to analyze that on your own is takes time. So I have created prompts or things like you said, a GPT, I don't know, but I have a section where I can pull up and say, Hey, this is the one that has my observations. Of course, I don't put any identifying markers in there, so you don't know what teacher is what, but I could take the information and it could help me, you know, sift through that. What are some areas? And I I get down to we use the marizontal framework, and it will go down the marizontal framework with me, and I can go, this is what I did. This is here's some here's some things that you're doing really well. Here's some growth opportunities, and I always like to call it growth opportunities, and it it comes up with things that I wouldn't have thought of, but a lot of it's like I would have thought of that eventually. You know, eventually there's some things though, there's some things that you're going, well, maybe that's a really good idea. I mean, I wouldn't have probably thought of that because my experiences wouldn't lend to that at that time, and so that's what people forget is like we lean on our experiences as a principal and a teacher that help other people get better, but I think it's helped me even broaden my ability to coach my teachers because there's things that I don't think of all the time that it was able to help me. And teachers would take the information and go, Wow, those are really good ideas, and they would run with it. And so I've seen a lot of good success coaching up my teachers by utilizing that appropriately, you know. And of course, when it comes to policy, having something help quick reference something, so you're not having to flip through pages, helps out as well. So those are some really good ways that I have done it, you've done it as well, that I think are practical for people out there to use.

Principal Mo 25:37

Right. And so I I just have one, I'm curious. I have one question. So you're prompting every single time you do that.

Principal JL 25:45

No, I have a prompt that I created.

Principal Mo 25:48

Right. Um we're gonna we're gonna talk after this, so I can make that even faster for you.

Principal JL 25:52

You're gonna make it even better for me. Yeah, I'm we're gonna go. Yeah, no, I've created I've created a prompt to where I utilize that within my notes, my my low inference notes that I take without the observation. And so I put those two things together and it helps me out. But if you got a better way, I'll I'm all ears for sure. All right. So what are some misconceptions that educators may have about AI and using it?

Principal Mo 26:24

I mean, there's so many. Are you because I think you're on threads too. So because sometimes that's yeah. So I I feel like that's where I see a lot of the misconceptions the most. And I think the biggest one is that like it it like AI is is going it is going to replace educators, and it can never do that. Like it just it just can't. And I know we've seen like the little the the AI robots and things like that. And we all know that that AI robot is not gonna make it in the middle school classroom. It's not happening, you know? I think so. I think that's just like a really big misconception, is that AI is you basically here to undermine educators. I think that people people just don't un if somebody doesn't understand something and they don't know about something, you know, that that causes a lot of fear because of that uncertainty and that that level of unknown that they have. So I know there's like environmental concerns around AI. You know, that's not like my level of your expertise, uh, you know, in my wheelhouse. But

AI Misconceptions And Guardrails

Principal Mo 27:38

at this point, like, you know, I think that we have we've gotten to a point now where AI has really is just been integrated into a lot of the things that we use on a regular basis, like all the applications we use and down to our email, you know, it's everywhere. And I think that, you know, I think just being conscious of how you're using it and how frequently you are using it. Like I use AI a lot, but I actually there are some days where I don't use it at all. And there are some days where I may use it for a little bit. So I think just being like mindful of how you're using it and what you're using it for, you know, for people who are conscious about the environment, I think that another misconception that people have is that it does not produce good information, because people will often refer to refer to as slop, AI slop. I think that the the the you're gonna get a better output based on what you input. So if you just give like, you know, a quick sentence and you don't, once again, don't have those guardrails, you don't, you know, specify what what it's for, and then you don't give those very critical details, yeah, you're not gonna get the best output. You know, that's just you you get what you put into it. So I think that because people just have these misconceptions, they don't really realize how AI can really be an asset to what it is that you know you're trying to do. Yeah, so those are some misconceptions that I've seen that, you know, I I know are, you know, just misconceptions because it there's, I mean, AI is becoming very new for some people, especially generative AI, and it because it's becoming more widely available for you know general use. And so I always liken this this movement in our new in the new information age to one of the initial steps of commercial internet. Now, I don't know if you remember, like, you know, commercial internet came. I want to say I was in middle school, maybe when that that was happening. And prior to that, when we had to do research, we had to use books. We had to go, you know, get the Encyclopedia Britannicas and pull those out and then write the note cards and then put the, you know, go through that whole process of handwriting everything. And so when you were able to go on the internet and search for something, and you didn't have to go and go and look at a whole bunch of books, you didn't have to know, you know, the Dewey Decimal system to research things, lot people were freaking out. Like people were freaking out, they thought books were gonna go away, they didn't think people were gonna be able to research anymore. Librarians were freaking out because they they thought that it was gonna completely eliminate their jobs. And lo and behold, librarians have quite literally been, you know, people who have been integral in teaching people how to use the internet to, in fact, research, you know. So I think that, and we still have librarians, we still have books, people, you know, and now we have databases that are online where more information is more widely available to you. I think that it, but initially the commercial commercial internet was scary for people. And I think that's where we are with AI right now, is that now that this is more widely available to you know, the the normal person, the average Joe. And because it's just so new, I think that we're just in another phase of the new information age.

Principal JL 31:19

So I have a I just was thinking about that. You talked about how AI is now kind of accessible to anybody and everybody now, right? Right. I've had parents this year send me emails that were generated through AI. Okay. I can pick it out real quick. Right. Because I'm like, I'm like going, I know this parent, and some of the things they're throwing out, like you know, the wording and everything. I'm like, oh, oh, they chat GPT'd this stuff. They they yeah, they did a little bit of research, they combined some things because they were making some good points, but I'm like, how do you know, how do you know that? Like, and so it's kind of it was kind of interesting that I've had some parents pull out the you know, the emails that are that they have developed because they want to make their point, which they did. I was gonna call them and we were able to work it out and talk through whatever it was, but I was just I started smiling because I'm like, people are gonna probably be able to say what they need to say better because they're gonna have information they didn't have before, and so I thought that was really interesting. Um, kind of when you talked about people can access that, and like for me, I utilize it to help polish things up for me. I'm not the best writer in the world, I know what I want to say and how I want to say it, but I I like it to maybe sound a little bit more professional than sometimes that I that I write. So I will utilize it, but it's still my words, and people have to remind have to remind people like it's still my me, it's still the information that I'm trying to portray. I'm just portraying it in a more professional manner at times. Just because you need that sometimes when you're doing this job, is to have that that that sense of professionalism um when you're speaking to people and writing emails and making sure your tone is right and hoping people don't take it too one way or the other for sure.

Principal Mo 33:19

Right.

Principal JL 33:20

When it comes to that. So I wanted to share that with you. I didn't know. Did you have anything similar with parents using utilizing it, sending emails?

Principal Mo 33:28

Uh yes and no, not really. I I I just talk to my parents, I call them on the phone. They don't really email too much. I don't, I just don't have I I have parents that will kind of send messages on like class dojo, but then they'll just be like, Can you call me? Like, we'll just talk about it. Because for the most part, I have you know good rapport with all of the families. So we'll just have like a conversation, but I really haven't had too many chat. I have I think I maybe had like one or two, but not many.

Principal JL 33:59

No, and I yeah, I just I just thought it was interesting. It's like, like you said, it's becoming more available. People are learning how to use, you know, and then I have a student that follows me on my TikToks and my Instagram. If I post anything with a AI generated image, it's automatically quit using AI.

Principal Mo 34:20

Using AI, yeah.

Principal JL 34:22

I was just like, I'm sorry, I'm like, you can use AI, but we can't, yeah, that type of thing. Yeah, like yeah, well, yeah, they've done that too. Now we actually put in an AI policy just because we want kids to learn how to use it appropriately, and so we now have an AI policy. So we will help you use it appropriately, but you're not gonna use it to do your work. It still needs to be your work, but you gotta be able to know when to use it, when not to use it, things like that. And so we that's something that we updated in our handbook for next year, just because I think it's important to address, especially at a high school, you know, level where we're trying to get these kids, you know, the you know, the learn the information, and it has to be their work to learn it, right?

Principal Mo 35:10

But you also want them to be future ready, right? If you really think about it with the rise of AI, they're gonna have to know how to use it because their employers are going to expect them to know how to use it. Employers right now expect people to know how to use generative AI.

Principal JL 35:24

Yep. And since your show that we had, you know, almost 18 months ago, last January, yeah. I actually got Magic School AI for my building.

Both 35:35

Oh, nice.

Principal JL 35:36

But we're on the enterprise package, so all my teachers have been using it now for over a year, and they love it. They're like, Don't ever take this away.

Principal Mo 35:44

Don't let it take it. And it's it's a good price, too.

Principal JL 35:47

Oh, yeah, I got it. Yeah,

Classroom AI Policies And MagicSchool Wins

Principal JL 35:50

I got it on a good deal. Thanks to you and mentioning that in the show that one day I actually went out, researched it, I brought them in, filed it, and then we've been, you know, on it this whole year, and the teachers love it. The other buildings in the district are like jealous that they don't have it, and I'm telling the district, you want to pay for everybody, then I don't have to pay for it. But right, uh they're not quite ready for that. But our teachers are doing a really good job of teaching kids how to utilize AI in the classroom when it's appropriate, when it's not appropriate, and that's kind of how we look at it is how can we teach kids to use it the right way? You know, it's gonna either it's something they're gonna have to do. And I always think of this, you know, AI is not gonna take your job as an educator because the kids are gonna need that human connection. It's the people that know how to use AI. I mean, that's the thing you got to think about is if you become more efficient because you know how to utilize things, become more efficient at your job, you're gonna be you're gonna set yourself apart where other people may struggle because they are you know hellbout not to use it. And I think there's a balance, like you said, there's gotta be a balance to where you can't be everything for everybody all the time. But if you can find ways to streamline things to make your job easier so you can focus on the important things, I think that's really important to know what you're using. So absolutely well, right.

Principal Mo 37:17

First, magic school, call me. Secondly, because I like I I talk to a lot of people about just different apps and things that I think are helpful to them, but like I'm I'm not I'm not sponsored, I'm not paid, it's not an ad. It's just like, hey, look, this is a great tool to use, and I'll you know, just talk about it. But you know, you're absolutely correct. Like, there's just a balance to everything. And I mean, at the end of the day, everybody has free will, and we know when people have free will, they can use it for good or they can use it for bad. Like, that's just really what it is. And, you know, people make their choices, but I think that you really do have to have a balance when using these tools, you know, you don't want to become over reliant on them, you know. But at the same time, like, you know, we have a really demand, you know, we have a really demanding job. You know, if you look at the like the corporate world, in the corporate world world, we they are not expected to manage 120 people. No manager manages uh that many people. They have direct reports that you that are that they're over those people, but like a manager, you know, they met the max maybe have a team of 10. And they, you know, you're talking to principals who have to manage, you know, buildings of 50 plus adults and then kids and then families, it's a lot. It that is a lot to do, and then even with teachers, teachers are managing, you know, kids and then working with all these different families, and then working with the different curriculums and pacing guides and assessments and all like we do a lot of work, and so if there are ways that we can streamline it so that you know we don't burn out, then you know, let's let's do that.

Principal JL 39:07

Yeah, but and I kind of see that's where I see it right now is I've had staff members saying what I can do with this magic school product and the tools I can use on it, it saved me hours of time that I used to have to do on my own. I could take this and I can scaffold it. I could take this and you know, get it to where you know I could have the different versions traded just because I have these tools now that I didn't have before. And you know, we have a pretty good size. I mean, we're probably close to eight or nine percent of my student population is EL, where they come and they don't know much English, so they try really hard. But even teachers that have them in class, they could utilize the tools to help those kids learn a lot more effectively than they did before because they didn't have something that could help translate or help the kids understand the things um that they needed to understand, and so it's been really, really helpful uh for my staff, but it's also helped them become more creative too. And that's something that I've learned is like if I point to it as like, have you thought of this about it? Oh, let me go check, you know, try some things out, they come back and report and go, Hey, guess what? I learned I can do, and now I'm gonna use this more because I didn't realize I could do all this. I thought one of the coolest things I saw this year is our our teacher that does basic cabinetry, and so these kids will create projects, and they have to be able to, you know, price the project, how much material is it cost, what do they need, what is it? He has utilized tools within Magic School AI for the kids to create, you know, hey, here's the project I want to do. It will actually give them the steps, it'll actually give them you know what steps they need to do for each day so they can pace it out. It also tells them the cost for it, and it breaks it all down for them when they want to like, hey, I want to build this shelf. This is what I want to do. They upload it to it, and it spits all this information. It tells them what day they're on, when they're doing what, how they're gonna do it, and they're utilizing it in their their basic cabinetry class when they're doing their little side project. So I really think that's really cool to see how teachers are utilizing it, just not in core teaching, but also in our skilled technical side as well.

Both 41:33

Yeah, that's really cool.

Principal JL 41:35

All right, so we've kind of covered a lot of topics. Is there a new AI tool out there we don't know about that you may be able to shed some light on, or something you're experimenting with that we don't know?

Principal Mo 41:46

I'm trying to think. So, because I've been using so many different things. Um something I haven't mentioned yet. So I mentioned, like you know, having you know, creating apps. So, but one thing that people use every day, but they haven't really been using it with AI. And I'll do two. So, one, using Canva code to create games. You can use Canva code to create games for students or for even for your staff. I created like a data game. So when we're looking at and analyzing data, it's just it's a game as opposed to just like, all right, who's in the highest, who's in the middle, low, you know, the like you know, the the normal, you know, conversations you have around data. So it's almost like a little board game. So I I I came up with the rules and things like that, and then I put it in the Canva Code and it designed the game, and so you can actually play it. So it coded the game. So, like, or you if you have like a game you want to like a review games for for kids,

Canva Code Games And Bollt Builds

Principal Mo 42:55

you can put in the content that you want it to review with them, and you can say, hey, create a review game, you know, based on this content. If students get the answer correct, you know, when students input the answer, you know, they can also provide them feedback as to whether it is right or wrong, and if it's wrong, why is it wrong? Things like that. And you can put it in Canva Code, and then you just send the website and you can put it like in Google Classroom or Canvas, and the kids can play the review game and you can collect the data. They just added that feature where they have a data collection tool now. Before it wasn't where you could like collect the data from them, you know, interacting with that that game that you created. Um, so that's one. Another one, if you are interested, if you do have like an idea for an app, like you're one of those people like, I wish there was an app for you know, the I don't know, like matcha drinks. I don't really know, but yeah, I don't drink matcha. I don't know what I thought about that. But if you wanted to create an app and you wanted to be able to describe what it is that you want The app to do the purpose of the app, you know, what the outputs are going to be, and then how it's supposed to function. You can totally vibe code those types of things. I know people are talking about using, like, you know, quad code for that, but quad code is definitely something that I think is more sophisticated. So something I think that's a little more user-friendly is BOLLT B.O.L.L.T. It is a it is a coding app, but you can also vibe code apps and build them. I'm sorry, go ahead.

Principal JL 44:33

No, I was just listening.

Principal Mo 44:35

Oh so yeah, you can and vibe coding means like you know, you're not exactly coding, you are you're describing what you want the code to be, and then AI interprets it and then creates the code for you. So those are two apps that I've been well, and you know, Canva, but people I don't think really know about like Canva AI and like Canva Code. Like it there's a lot of cool stuff that it does, but then also Bolt is like is the app that or a tool that I use quite frequently, especially for biocoding apps and things of that nature.

Principal JL 45:13

I know I've I've I messed around with Canva a little bit and I've used some of their AI tools within you know the things that I do with Canva. So there are some pretty cool things that they're doing in there. Um, I haven't tried that one yet, so maybe you'll have to look into that moving down or you know, coming up. So uh Principal Mo, we've talked a lot about a lot of different things, you know. When it comes to education, what excites you about the future of education for educational leaders out there?

Principal Mo 45:42

I think uh we are seeing a change in education. I mean, and not like in a way where we're getting like, you know, an overhaul of policy or something like that, like you know, from the federal government where, like, you know, we had no child left behind, and then now we have ESA. I'm not talking about that. I think that for the longest time, especially if he's been in at leadership pre-pandemic, I think people are have been kind of chasing this idea that we are going to somehow get back to what it was like before the pandemic. And I think that we're kind of letting that idea go and reimagining what education can really look like, you know, based on the information that we have now, based on our kids, you know, our kids are different. Some people say kids are the same, they're not. The kids are definitely different, and so I think we're really looking at how can we make education more engaging? How can we make school more desirable for kids to be at school,

The Future Of Flexible School Models

Principal Mo 46:50

where they really want to be a part of a community where they feel seen, heard, valued, and cared for. I think that that is what's really exciting about education now because we're we're kind of getting out of the we're getting out of the, you know, the just the status quo of what education has been and making it into something even greater than what it's been before than what it has been before.

Principal JL 47:16

Hey man, I I I agree with you on that. I think education is starting to evolve even more. I I really do think the factory style of education is needs to go. Like it, I think we're starting to do things a little bit better and differently. Like I'll I'll talk from my school is you know, like you think of like going to high school like the traditional, you go in, you go to your classes, you do all the things, right? With you know, everything that's happened over probably the last seven to eight years in education itself, we're just living in a different time. And my thing is, is I want to meet kids where they're at, and if it is to help, if they can do the traditional route, great, but not every kid may be able to do that because of situations or things that that are going on with their life or personal things, and so we have done hybrid schedules, we have done traditional schedules and we've done all online scheduling with our students, but it is very thought-through. We have a process, so if a kid's gonna do an all-on-line high school setting, we call it our learning center. Some people call it a high, it's not a high school, it's under my umbrella of the high school, it's an extension of us, but we have kids that that's what they need, and so we go through a process and we decide as a leadership team, yep, this kid would be best suited to go to the learning center for the online curriculum, and they go through that. Now, some people don't like the online curriculum, but we're making decisions what's best best for that kid. Now, there's some kids that are like they do the hybrid model because like they there's certain things they could do, and then there's certain things they struggle with, and so we have a hybrid model with some kids, and then we have our traditional model. So we actually kind of have three different models that we run throughout the year, and based on a kid's situation, we'll determine which model's the best. And we really started toying with that this year. It's something I've thought about for a long time, but we're really like, yeah, let's do it. Our goal is to help these kids learn. We want to get them, you know, the learning done so they can graduate and all those things. And it's you know, our way of trying to meet people where they're at, help families where they're at, and help these kids where they're at with the whatever situations going on. So those are some things that we have kind of shifted probably over the last year, year and a half at my high school to help kids learn.

Principal Mo 49:57

And so I don't know if you guys have been that's actually really innovative, like you know, to think about like where school can exist, because right now, school can exist almost anywhere if you really think about it.

Principal JL 50:08

That's true. I mean, it's one of those things where some people don't understand, like you know, our goal is to help kids learn, grow, and become to help them get to that next stage of life. And we want to make sure, yeah, we want to hold them accountable, we want to do all these things, but there's just circumstances that we have to work through with families and kids that people don't know about, and our whole goal is to make sure they're getting the quality education that they deserve, and we're gonna do everything we can to help that. And it doesn't matter if you know where where you're at, we're just trying to help you where meet your needs and and move on from there. And and we do my my high school is about 54% free and reduced, so we have a pretty high, low socioeconomic population within our within our community, and so you know, with that, there's just a lot of situations that that we we run into that some people may or may not see as much, you know, in their communities. But for us, we're trying to do what's best for our kids and our community, and it's worked really, really well, and it's really helped kids, you know, continue to motivate them to come to school because if they didn't have these other options, they may drop out on some of these situations. So now these options we're keeping their rear end in the school so they can graduate because we have kids. I just want to go get my GED. I'm like, well, you'll be about 21 when you're done, like you might as well just stay here and let us help you, you know, because they don't understand GED only works a certain way, and they won't let you separate the GED until they you've developed all the skills you need. So if you're gonna try to go get your GED at 17, you may not be done as fast as you think you are. Right. There you go on that end. So, yeah, there's some things that yeah, we're trying to I I kind of like look at school differently and what we're trying to do because the traditional factory state model doesn't work for everybody, right? You know, and that's just the way that is. And and and the thing is, is like we have more people working from home than we ever had before. Like, that's kind of crazy. People think about we have all these job openings, but that's because people are able to make money other ways that we've never been able to before as well. Correct.

Principal Mo 52:33

So there's a lot of industries that exist now that didn't exist before.

Principal JL 52:38

Mm-hmm. And guess what? There's gonna be more coming out, like our worlds have always evolved, and there's always gonna be that same, and we're like the the frontier that has to figure that out on the fly, right? We're trying to figure out we're we're teaching kids, you know, to be ready for jobs that don't even exist yet, right? Yeah, like we don't know what's out there, we're trying our best though, when it comes down to it. But yeah, all right, Principal Mo, this has been fun. I've really appreciate you coming back on, just telling us your experience, all the awesome stuff that you're doing. If people wanted to connect with you, I know you have your website now. Yeah, yes, I do.

Principal Mo 53:17

I didn't have a website last time I talked to you.

Principal JL 53:20

You do now, you do now, right? You're moving up. All right, but you have a website. So, how could people connect with you? You know, if they want to learn more about your work and maybe get you to come speak for them with them and all these fun things that you got going on.

Principal Mo 53:35

Yes, so I can be found at www.nmo.com. And my hand, my handle on all social media platforms is principal underscore mo.

Principal JL 53:49

Principal Mo it's great having you on the show again. Is there anything you'd like to say before we go?

Principal Mo 53:55

Yeah, I wrote a book since the last time we talked to him.

Principal JL 53:59

Oh, tell me more.

Principal Mo 54:01

So the book is called Educating Ain't Easy. So it is a it is about leading, teaching, and thriving in today's schools. And it's a book about the realities of education and how as leaders and as teachers,

Where To Find Mo And Her Book

Principal Mo 54:21

it's okay to be human. And there are very practical strategies in there. It's not like this motivational book, it's not about theory, it's all about like the real grind of education and you know, doing doing the work. You bet. Now, what is that? Is that book already out? It's not out yet. You're like the first person I'm like really talking to about it. That's how special you are, JR. Oh, J. Yeah. But I don't I don't have a date yet, but I'm hoping to I'm hoping to have a date soon.

Principal JL 54:56

So when it does come out, I want to make sure I connect that book to this episode down in the show notes. And so you're gonna have to keep me up to date on that, but I'll also post it back. I know you're going. I'm gonna be I'll be sharing the post too. So that'd be awesome. Um, well, congratulations on the book. You mean like speaker, author, you know, movie star. I mean, you got all you got, you got like you're not you're like a squad DJ. I mean, you got it all, you got like the full package here, Principal. And if people didn't know, I used to DJ, I'm not the DJ you are, but I used to do weddings and proms and all that stuff. Oh, nice, but I'm not quite I'm not quite the you know, at your level, I could say. I just know how to play music and two icebreakers and stuff. So, Principal Mo, this has been a lot of fun. I really I enjoy having you back on the show, and of course we're gonna have to do this again.

Principal Mo 55:53

Absolutely. Thank you so much, JL. I appreciate you.

Principal JL 55:57

What a conversation with Principal Mo. Man, that was awesome. I really enjoyed catching up with her and hearing all the awesome things that she's been up to. If you really enjoy this episode, I would encourage you to share with somebody who needs to hear it. I'd also love for you to subscribe to this podcast so you don't miss another awesome episode like this one. Also, love to hear from you. Please give me a holler either on my social medias at Principal JL, or you can also text me through the send me a message button down in the show notes. So I hope to hear from you, and I hope you guys had a really good time listening to this episode. Until next time, be curious and one percent better.