Episode 228: Strengthening PLCs with Clarity, Trust, and Purpose with Dr. Chad Dumas

Darrin Peppard (00:00.782)

All right, everybody, welcome back into the Leaning Into Leadership podcast. This is episode 228. Man, I'll tell you, over the last few months, I've had the incredible opportunity to keynote and speak at events all across the country. I've been working with school and district leaders on what really matters to lead with clarity and purpose and culture in mind. And I've been so humbled by the feedback.

Just a few things I want to share with you. Some of the things that people have said after having the opportunity to hear my message. One person said, this got to the heart of how to shift culture in my school. You break through the excuses and you get to the root of the problem and then act on it. Yeah, absolutely, man. That is just so true. When we just simply break through the excuses and get to the root of the problem.

we can truly act on it. Another person said, Darren shares inspiring stories and philosophies about culture and leadership. He encourages us to think about what we care about most and how we can shape our actions and mindsets to match that. You know, really that's what it's all about. As a leader, if we're not aligning what we believe with how we act, we're really missing the point. And that's what people see through. That's when leaders aren't at their best. So I really appreciate that piece of feedback. And the final one I want to share with you, somebody said, Darren's perspective and advice on leadership is inspiring and transformative. I look forward to bringing awesome in all caps into my practices. And that's leaning into that awesome framework that I shared a couple weeks ago in a solo podcast episode. Folks,

We can do this as leaders. We can lean into this and I want to help you do this. So if you're looking for ways to build momentum in your school, in your district or in your organization, if you're looking for ways to develop stronger leadership teams or shift culture in meaningful ways, let's have a conversation. This work matters and I love doing it. Now, let's dive into today's episode.

Darrin Peppard (02:19.15)

My guest on the show is my friend Dr. Chad Dumas and I gotta be honest with you before we even hit record Chad and I were already talking about leadership and clarity and trust and of course We were talking about barbecue as well because that's a huge thing that Chad loves to share on social media and so in this episode we go deep into one of the most essential leadership structures in schools a PLC

And whether your teams are thriving or just stuck in the mud, this conversation is packed with insights from Dr. Chad Dumas to help you strengthen your leadership team, to build clarity around the roles within that team and to cultivate the kind of trust that leads to real authentic collaboration. let's waste no time whatsoever and get into it with my friend, Dr. Chad Dumas.

Darrin Peppard (00:01.093)

All right, everybody. Welcome back into the show. My guest on the show today is Chad Dumas, a good friend, co-worker, you will, fellow Nebraska. Although as Chad knows, I don't really identify as a Nebraskan, but here we are ready to sit down and record. And later today, we're going to get together in person, which is, which is pretty cool. So Chad, welcome into the show, man.

Chad Dumas (00:14.54)

Yes, sir.

Chad Dumas (00:26.798)

Thank you, man. And it's so funny because you don't identify as a Nebraskan. I identify as a Nebraskan, but I live in Iowa and don't identify as an Iowan. know, we're... Yeah, that's right. We can still be friends.

Darrin Peppard (00:36.849)

There you go. And I root for the Hawkeyes and you root for the Cornhuskers. So there we go.

That's right. That's right. Yeah. You're on the correct side of the Missouri. So, so, anyway, yeah, let's, let's dive into this. So, one of the reasons that, that I had asked Chad to, to join me here on the show, and we've been wanting to do this for a long time, to be perfectly honest. And finally we were able to get our schedules to sync up. Chad, you've got a brand new book, the teacher team leader handbook. this to me reads like the

Chad Dumas (00:46.446)

you

Darrin Peppard (01:12.175)

not just how to, but that how to get unstuck, how to move forward with PLCs. know you do a ton of that work that that's a part of the conversation I want to have today. Part also as this episode is being released, we're getting ready to fire up the school year again. And so I'd love to hear some things for school leaders, for team leaders, know, PLC team leaders.

Chad Dumas (01:30.766)

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Darrin Peppard (01:40.467)

Just some things we can help them kind of sharpen the sword and be ready to dive in and have a successful year. But before we do all of that, let's maybe zoom out just a little bit and have you maybe get a little orientation into who Chad is for my listeners and my viewers who don't know you. Although I can't imagine that none of them. They all have to know who Chad is.

Chad Dumas (02:06.1)

well, thank you. Appreciate that introduction. yeah, I've been in this business of education and leadership more than a quarter of a century now. And, you know, my lack of hair kind of defies that length of time. But most of that time has been around how do you develop a collaborative culture? Because we know that a surefire way to improve learning is to get the adults working together, improving their own practice.

and results for students. And when we do that, we can see incredible gains. And so I have the good fortune after spending 21 years in public schools, in a variety of schools, elementary, middle, high school, teacher, professional developer, principal, central office administrator, for the last five years now, I get to work full-time working with incredible educators and leaders all over this country.

And so that's my gig now is about two thirds of my work is working with schools through the solution tree, solution tree, PLC RTI at work process. And then about a third of it is schools directly working with me on leadership practices, team leader development, curriculum, assessment, instruction, data, visioning, strategic planning, all that good stuff. So, so yeah, I get to work with incredible educators like yourself and, and others all over the country.

Darrin Peppard (03:26.501)

Yeah, absolutely, man. And man, you do incredible work. And a handful of schools that I know have worked with you directly, boy, they just absolutely sing your praises. And that's why I'm excited to have this conversation today about PLCs. We also might need to, I might throw a bonus question in at the end. One of the things, folks, if you follow Chad, and we'll later in the show, we'll talk about how you can follow Chad on social media. One of my favorite parts of when Chad travels,

is him sharing what barbecue place he's eating at. I think that's, that's a highlight right there. And so we'll definitely have an opportunity to talk about that later, later here in the show. But let's, let's actually get into, into the PLC piece. And, like I, like I said, you know, you had this brand new book out. I've had my opportunity to go through and review it. For those of you who are watching on, on YouTube, you can see the image there of the book. Those of you who are listening,

Chad Dumas (04:00.608)

Yes, sir.

Darrin Peppard (04:23.311)

we'll have a link in the show notes so can go check the book out and go grab your copy. I was telling you before we hit record as a school level leader in particular, some of the struggles that I found leading PLCs was supporting those individual teams that maybe were a little dysfunctional, supporting some teams and I'm being kind.

some teams that maybe just get a little stuck in the mud. then also even with, with those teams that are really, really good, how do you help them take their performance to that, to that next level? That's a lot to put on a building administrator. It's a lot to put on a team leader. So I also put a whole lot on you right there. I just talked about like three different areas. So you pick where you want to go first.

Chad Dumas (05:09.889)

Yep.

Chad Dumas (05:16.792)

All right, perfect.

Darrin Peppard (05:17.883)

and let's talk about how we support our PLCs to create that collaborative culture.

Chad Dumas (05:22.594)

Yeah, yeah. Well, so kind of what started my path of writing this book was in working with lots of teacher team leaders and principals who are working to support teacher team leaders was that the first thing is that there was a lack of clarity about what is the role? What are the responsibilities? That many times we identify teachers in our building who are either or both, it could be both of these, really good teachers.

and or they're well respected by their colleagues. And then we say, Hey, I think you'd be a good teacher team leader. Go and go forth and conquer, right? And, and we're not clear about what that is. And then, and then some, some are very effective. Some less so. And so I started out by, okay, so what, first of all, what is the role? First of all, what's, what is the purpose of a team?

What's the role of the teacher team leader and what are their responsibilities? And what are their responsibilities not, right? Because sometimes we think, sometimes I work with folks who they expect their teacher team leaders to like be mini administrators or, you know, spies or snitches, right? They've got power over their colleagues. No, no, no, no, it's none of those things, right? So let's start by being really clear about what the role is and what it's not.

And the role I define very clearly is to ensure the effective functioning of the team and guaranteeing student learning. That's it, right? To ensure the effective functioning of the team. Now, that's easier said than done. That's really actually quite a mouthful. And so now how do we do that? And so I identify responsibilities, assumptions, mindsets and actions to help make that happen. But I think it starts there. Like, let's be clear about what the role is and what it's not.

Darrin Peppard (07:14.469)

I think that's really, really important because everything that you just said, certainly I've experienced those things where, you know, either that leader of, of the PLC thinks of themselves as a quasi administrator or other members of the team view them that way. that's where the spy snitch, you know, turn goat in any other phrase you might, you might have for that, you know, comes, comes about. So.

Chad Dumas (07:29.896)

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yep.

Yep.

Darrin Peppard (07:43.814)

I'm curious, you talk about it a little bit in here, but let's maybe go a little bit deeper. What are some really effective ways that you have seen and that you have led and supported where not only gaining that clarity of the role for the individual in the role, but also for the team as a whole, what are some of the best ways to ensure that that clarity exists for everybody who's involved in the team?

Chad Dumas (08:12.236)

Yeah, yeah, again, like, how do we make sure that it's not just the teacher team leader that's clear about it, but like the whole team is clear, right? Yeah. So I think it starts by naming it. And so by being able to say, Hey, here is the response, the role, and then here's the responsibilities. And so what I did with the responsibilities is combing through the research to figure out, okay, so what are the responsibilities of a team leader? First of all, some people might say there's no, you don't need a team leader. And actually there's some research that says, yes, you do.

While there can be some teams that become high functioning in general, the need for having somebody who's in a quote unquote designated leader role really has been reaffirmed time and time again. So, so let's just set that aside that that is an important role for somebody to play. It's also a function, but it is a role. But then second of all, what are those responsibilities? And typically people think that the responsibility of the team leaders to make sure the team gets stuff done.

I propose that that's actually the least important of the responsibilities. It is one of the three, but of those three, that is number three. It's the least important. It is important, but it's the least important to get stuff done. The more important responsibilities of the team leader is first of all, make the space that, excuse me, make it safe, to make the space psychologically safe. That if the team does not have psychological safety, you're not going anywhere. And this has been.

A study that came out of Google, the company about six, seven years ago, documented in the New York Times. And it was codenamed the Aristotle Project, where they looked at effective teams to figure out what made for effective teams. And many times when we think about effective teams, we think about, they get along with each other, or they're really highly skilled at their craft, or they have a lot of good experience, or they have a variety of experience, or they bring really good snacks to their meetings.

And what this study found and has been re-replicated is that it comes down to psychological safety. That's the most important factor of effectiveness. And so as a team leader, you've got to work to create that psychological safety. And then the second responsibility is to build the capacity of the team. If you are focused on just doing the work yourself and then handing things out to folks, you're not going to be an effective team leader. And so let's name those three responsibilities. Let's make that clear.

Chad Dumas (10:38.816)

And then once that's clear, now we can move towards the second part of the book that you were kind of getting to is what are the actions that now as a teacher team leader I can do to make it safe and to build capacity.

Darrin Peppard (10:53.359)

And I think that's one of the things I love here is you're not just saying, here's what you need to do, but here are some actual moves, strategies, and so forth that will make a difference for you as the leader. I think let's just stay on this. Let's stay on how we best support that team leader. I want to ask a question real quick before I go forward. You mentioned that, it is very important. The research has affirmed that you need this team leader.

Chad Dumas (10:57.518)

Thank

Darrin Peppard (11:23.439)

I see this occasionally. I'm curious. What about the schools who are rotating those roles? Good practice, poor practice. What are your thoughts on that? Because I know it happens.

Chad Dumas (11:37.23)

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. So rotation on a not too frequent basis might work, right? Because the role does require some thought, some preparation, some time to develop these skills, right? So what I identify is 40 different actions that these team leaders need to take. If you're rotating that role every week or every two weeks or every month or every

quarter or even every semester, you're not going to develop those skills. So what I did in my own practice when I was a central office administrator is we had designated team leaders on a four-year commitment, if you will. And half of them were on these four years, and then the other half were overlapped by two years, right? So you didn't have full potential turnover.

And if a person wanted to continue beyond their four-year quote unquote term, wonderful. If somebody wanted to get out of it, you will, before the end of their four-year term, that's fine too. But it just kind of set up some kind of a systematic rotation where people had an opportunity to really develop themselves and their skills in being that team leader. And then, yeah, let's absolutely give other people the opportunity to develop those skills.

What we have to be careful of though is rotating too frequently that they're not able to really develop those skills with.

Darrin Peppard (13:07.985)

So when we're thinking about this as school administrators and we're wanting to identify who those team leaders are for each of their PLCs, I have a couple of thoughts in my mind of ways that these roles might be assigned. One, obviously you can open it up and have people apply for it if you would, similar to like a department head. Secondly,

Chad Dumas (13:31.97)

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Darrin Peppard (13:36.791)

you could simply choose. And typically people who would do this route would probably choose maybe the teacher who's been there the longest or the one who they might quote unquote deem as most on board or something like that. The third one, and this is the one I would lean towards is, and I really encourage leaders that I work with all over to continually be working to grow their leadership bench. In other words,

Chad Dumas (13:49.173)

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Darrin Peppard (14:03.889)

helping to tap those people on the shoulder that you see that leadership potential in and give them something to grow into potentially an administrator role. What would you suggest? What do you feel are the most effective practices for identifying who is going to lead these PLCs?

Chad Dumas (14:22.508)

Yeah, I think depending on the school, it's an all of the above strategy, right? Sometimes it's a coalition of the willing, right? Like who's willing to do it. Sometimes you got a ball and toll to somebody. Sometimes you set up an application process. I personally like an application process because it formalizes it and it makes people think about it. But then when you combine that with, know, sometimes you won't have applicants. So sometimes you have to combine that with some recruitment strategies.

Darrin Peppard (14:29.799)

True.

Chad Dumas (14:51.244)

like you said, developing that deep bench, you know, the work of leaders is all around building capacity. And we've known that for 30 years. You know, I think Michael Fullin says the measure of a great leader is how many leaders they leave behind. Right. And so that that bench development is really critical. Yeah.

Darrin Peppard (15:12.251)

Yeah, 100%. Yeah, I'm a huge believer in, and even sometimes I know I've charted my own leadership tree, know, those who, you know, who essentially, yeah, I've left behind or whatever, you know, that are in what all the different roles that they have have developed into. And that's, I think that's absolutely it's, it's, I would, I would say it's, it's an ethical responsibility of leaders to grow other leaders. I think it's truly that important.

Chad Dumas (15:20.828)

huh, huh.

Chad Dumas (15:25.614)

.

Chad Dumas (15:36.482)

Yeah. Yeah.

Darrin Peppard (15:39.791)

So let's talk about this. One of my favorite parts of this book are the assumptions that you share specifically to understanding your approach to how you're going to lead the team. And I mean, you've got five really good assumptions here. I already told you before we hit record, there's one that just so stood out to me. So folks, I'll just name all five for you. And then there's one I want to go right at. And I want you to talk about this, but.

Chad Dumas (15:51.118)

Yes.

Darrin Peppard (16:09.199)

One, know, assumption number one, people do the best that they can. Assumption two, you, you can only control yourself. Assumption number three, behavior communicates. Assumption four, people want to get stuff done. I love that one by the way, but number five is the one that just, man, it draws me in. And I've reread the section a couple of different times. The assumption that conflict is good. We were talking before we hit record about some

Chad Dumas (16:23.822)

Mm-hmm.

Thank you.

Chad Dumas (16:35.458)

Hmm.

Darrin Peppard (16:39.355)

let's say dysfunctional PLCs, that I've experienced that you've experienced. And conflicts are not always that good. So talk about why we make that assumption and why maybe that assumption isn't correct.

Chad Dumas (16:52.908)

Yeah, yeah, yeah. So I raised these assumptions because all of us have assumptions, but we don't necessarily surface them. And so I think it's important to raise them. And I think these are assumptions that are helpful for a teacher team leader, for any leader really, to have in their work. An assumption, first of all, is something that a person holds to be true. It doesn't necessarily mean it's a fact, but it is something that I'm gonna hold to be true. like for instance, the first one, people do the best that they can.

It may not be the case that somebody is doing the best that they can, but if I assume that they're doing the best that they can, if I in some cases hallucinate that they're doing the best that they can, I will treat them differently. Right? And when I treat other people differently, then they will behave differently. And so this fifth one of conflict is good. You're exactly right. So the assumption is that conflict is good.

The reality is that many times it is damaging. And so what we have to do is approach this idea of conflict of being good with the mindset of, you've maybe heard the anecdote that if there's three people in the room and we all agree, two of us are unnecessary. So we want to engage in conflict. The challenge is making sure the conflict is cognitive. It's at a cognitive level that we are having

discourse, raising different perspectives, having that spark, know, like Flint, you know, when you want to create a fire, create light, you have to have that conflict, that rubbing, that spark that comes from that. And without it, you're not going to get the light, you're not going to get the heat, the wonderful benefits of the fire. And so the challenge then for the teacher team leaders, first of all, go into meetings.

into conflict knowing and assuming that conflict is good. But then the second part is making sure that the conflict doesn't become affective. It doesn't become personal. It doesn't become relational. And so the moves, techniques, and strategies in the book are really important to help make sure the conflict stays at a cognitive level. So for example, some of the actions that I describe are using a pause together with a technique of breathing combined with

Chad Dumas (19:16.76)

taking a drink combined with using some physical movement, combined with paraphrasing for others, combined with using a third point. Like there's a bunch of different specific moves, techniques and strategies that a teacher team leader can use to make sure that the conflict stays at that cognitive level and doesn't become effective.

Darrin Peppard (19:38.055)

So as I, as I listened to you talk about this, and again, I, I said, I went back to this multiple times and a part of why I went back to it. Um, one of, one of my favorite leadership books, uh, Lindsay only's five dysfunctions of a team. talks about that, that conflict and about how that productive conflict, not the personal conflict is so essential, but before you can get to that stage,

Chad Dumas (19:44.334)

huh.

Chad Dumas (19:51.328)

huh.

Chad Dumas (19:56.664)

Mm-hmm. Yep.

Yes. Correct.

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Darrin Peppard (20:08.783)

His baseline number one dysfunction or number one requirement for successful teams is trust. So leaning into some of your moves and strategies, let's talk about that. How do you build that trust around the table that typically, and now we're talking about specifically the team leader, not the administrator.

Chad Dumas (20:14.712)

Yep.

Chad Dumas (20:35.726)

Right.

Darrin Peppard (20:37.093)

because sometimes as the team leader, getting that trust without it, you're not going to move forward. What are some moves and strategies or even just...

ways that a team leader can approach their role to grow that level of trust that's so important for really good collaborative structures.

Chad Dumas (21:06.99)

Yep, Yeah, so I do reference Lencioni in the first part of the book around building trust and then his five different levels and linking it to that Google study that I mentioned earlier, the Aristotle project, that with psychological safety, they found two key elements of psychological safety. So the first key element is what they described as social sensitivity, which...

in layman's terms is I look at you and I can, and I see from your nonverbal cues what you're communicating and I respond appropriately. Right? So I can tell, hey, Darren, I must've said something that triggered you. Tell me more about what you're thinking, right? Because I saw your, your arms go crossed or, you know, not because you're cold, but like you crossed your arms or.

or you harrumped and put your hand on your face, or you squished your face up, right? So I'm reading the cues, the social cues of each other and responding appropriately. So that's the first part of social sensitivity, which really gets to that trust building, right? And then the second one element of psychological safety is the extent to which we have equity of voice. And so as a teacher team leader, the things that you do,

to develop that trust, start right there with that psychological safety. So all of the moves and techniques in the book, which are the things that you do as a teacher team leader, and I've mentioned a few of them, like pausing and paraphrasing, how you breathe, how you pose questions to folks, how you use a third point. These are specific moves and techniques that help to develop that trust, that social sensitivity. And then the...

The second part is equity of turn-taking gets to the protocols or any of the strategies that I explore in the book. And so I'll just give you some very, very specifically for equity of turn-taking and also the developing of the trust in this process. So I believe that every meeting needs to start with inclusion.

Chad Dumas (23:19.662)

not an icebreaker, icebreaker tick off half the people. And so we don't want to start a meeting by ticking people off. But what we do want to do is get everybody's mental energy in the room. We want to get their voices in the room and we want to build community as we connect with each other and the content. So that's what an inclusion does. And so an inclusion can be as simple as, right, friends, welcome, glad to have everybody here at our meeting today. Would you please take a look at the norms that we've identified for ourselves? Which one of these do you think you'd like to focus on for yourself today?

Take a moment, think about that.

Now maybe we share. Okay, we've got our agenda. You all saw the agenda. Which thing are you really nervous about today?

or share quote. Here's one of my favorite quotes. What does that make you think about in terms of our work today? It always needs to come back to our work today, right? Which is the difference between an icebreaker and inclusion. An icebreaker is something that's fun for some people, right? But it doesn't have anything to do with their content. And so we've got to tie it back to the meeting and that's an inclusion. so that sets the stage for getting everybody's voices in the room. So that's the first thing, first specific strategy I'll share. The other specific strategy I'll share is

the idea being vulnerable, that sometimes people think that, in order for people to be vulnerable, we need to develop trust. And actually the research is the other way around, that vulnerability engenders trust. And so you as a teacher team leader need to start by being vulnerable, not by being like, this isn't a confession, right? My wife had a boss once that every meeting, she was gonna, the boss would cry in every meeting. Sorry, overkill.

Chad Dumas (24:59.754)

you know, like you're destroying the mood.

Darrin Peppard (25:02.597)

I might have worked for that person. I had a principal who cried in every meeting and like we had a pool in the back of the room. you know, when, when will he cry? yeah.

Chad Dumas (25:08.43)

You

Chad Dumas (25:12.142)

Yeah, over under 10 minutes, right? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. So that's not what we want. But you can be vulnerable by just saying, and at a school I work with, they call them giraffe conversations, right? Like the giraffe has a long neck, so they stick their neck out. But you know, people just, they label and say, hey, I just want to be vulnerable here and just share with you, I tried this practice and didn't work, or I'm gonna, I need to have a giraffe conversation, I'm gonna put myself out there. And that helps to engender the trust on the team over time, especially.

Darrin Peppard (25:15.409)

Exactly, yeah, yeah, pretty much.

Darrin Peppard (25:43.131)

I think those are both just huge strategies right there. And I think, I think that's one of the things that as you're getting ready to kick off your school year, as you're getting ready to launch, you know, and, maybe you have new people in these roles or whatever, something to really think about is begin with that development of trust. And I love how you went to, you know, being vulnerable to gain that trust, such an important strategy. I want to ask you this question too. We've, we've talked a lot about.

without labeling it existing schools, existing PLCs. But I know we have a handful of listeners, probably more than just a handful who might be starting a brand new school this fall. know, maybe, maybe they've, they've gone through the process. I think of Dr. Lutkroy in, in Texas, who for the last year has been assembling his team for his brand new high school in Texas. And the expectation would be that

When you start, you're going to begin with PLCs, brand new structure, brand new people to the table. What might be a suggestion you have for our new leaders, new facilities that this is, or even just people who maybe they've been in their facility a long time, but they're just taking their first steps into the world of PLC.

Chad Dumas (27:10.572)

Yeah, so, well, in terms of my book, so it's divided into two parts. The first part is who you are as a person, because that's where it all starts, right? Good old Michael Jackson, looking at the man in the mirror, right? That's where it all starts. So part one is all about who you are as a person, and that's where the role, responsibilities, assumptions, and mindsets come into play. So I would definitely start with chapters one and two around who you are and how you approach the task.

Darrin Peppard (27:25.223)

That's right.

Chad Dumas (27:39.662)

Part two then is broken up into the actions that you take. And the chapters are getting started, building momentum, overcoming obstacles, and refining your skills. So the chapter on getting started would be the place to start, right? So you've got who you are, and then let's make sure that we're getting that foundation laid. And like you said, many schools have PLCs in place that have had them for, you know, the term flew very quickly across the educational landscape.

over the last 20 years. And so even if you have those teams in place, that chapter is probably still a good place to go back to. And let's say, let's make sure that we've got a really good foundation in place.

Darrin Peppard (28:21.445)

Yeah, no, I love that. think that's all outstanding stuff right there. folks, you're definitely going to want to connect with Chad. If you're needing that PLC, you know, booster that startup, that support. He is definitely the guy to have the conversation with before I ask you the last question, I ask everybody here on the podcast. I referenced it earlier, so I want to come back to it and you can go a couple of different directions with this. I want, I want to talk barbecue and.

I know it's one of your favorite topics. I know that you have tried it everywhere. Now I will say this in a couple of weeks, I am going to be at a conference in Kansas city, which is supposed to be the place for barbecue. I'm curious one, can you give me the place in the place to go for barbecue? And then two, just in your recent travels, man, what's, what's been the best barbecue you've had?

Chad Dumas (28:56.887)

All over.

Darrin Peppard (29:18.937)

Or even if it's just a different meal, just you love to talk food. Let's talk food.

Chad Dumas (29:19.531)

yeah.

Chad Dumas (29:23.596)

I do, do. So, you know, unfortunately, I've had barbecue at a couple of different places in Kansas City and some places that are like pretty well, you know, reputable, like if you Google best places, they'll show up that frankly weren't like they were good. And I should preface this. There's no such thing as bad ribs. Right? Like, like you got to work really hard to have bad ribs. it's just yet there are ribs and then there are

Darrin Peppard (29:43.911)

Right.

Chad Dumas (29:52.364)

ribs. And I'll tell you, the best so up until two nights ago, the best ribs that I've ever had were in Carmel, Indiana, Indiana, just outside of Indianapolis. Those were the number one. Number two was in outside of or inside Little Rock. And number three was in Texas. But just the other night, a place in Lincoln, Nebraska, jumped and got

the number, it was amazing. Mulberry barbecue in Lincoln, I tell ya, the flavor, the tenderness. So one of the things for me is if the ribs need sauce, then, they're good, but they're not amazing, right? Like sauce is the key. If it doesn't need sauce, they're right top notch. And I tell ya, I didn't even think about putting sauce on these. I didn't even try it. Sometimes I'll just try it just to see.

Didn't need sauce. Flavor was so good. The meat was so tender. Mulberry BBQ in Lincoln, Nebraska.

Darrin Peppard (30:59.729)

There you go. Big surprise that Nebraska guy recommends a place in Nebraska. I love that. I love that. Yeah. You did. Absolutely. Yeah. That's fantastic. Yeah. I've got, I guess I have to go to Mulberry now and check that out. Yeah, for sure. Awesome stuff right there, man. So, this is the leaning into leadership podcast. And so I asked this question of everybody here on the show. and you've shared so many wonderful things, but

Chad Dumas (31:03.406)

Well, you did hear me. I did mention, you know, Indiana and Arkansas and Texas, right? Yep.

You'll have to.

Chad Dumas (31:22.477)

Yeah.

Darrin Peppard (31:28.369)

Maybe share with us something else, Chad, that you're doing right now to lean into leadership.

Chad Dumas (31:33.582)

Yeah, so one of the things I've been really thinking about lately, and this gets to one of your key messages, Darren, about clarity, right? Like you as a leader being clear. And so the clearer we are as individuals about where we're going and what we're wanting to accomplish, the better we're gonna help others. And yet, so this is where I've been leaning into and toying around, yet others also have to come to their own meaning. And that's messy, right?

I think about Michael Fullen, he says, you for change leaders, control freaks need not apply. And so, because you just can't control change, right? You can't control other people. what I've been thinking about is that juxtaposition or duality between your own clarity as a leader and creating that space, that culture, that environment for others to navigate their own messiness.

to be able to get to their own clarity. That's what I've been thinking about leaning into lately.

Darrin Peppard (32:37.691)

I love that so much. And of course, yes, you're hitting me. You're hitting me right here at home when you're talking about clarity, such an important piece for leaders. Absolutely. Man, this, this was long overdue and this was absolutely fantastic. I really appreciate you joining me here on the Leaning Into Leadership podcast, Chad, my friend. This was, this was great.

Chad Dumas (32:43.605)

Yep,

Chad Dumas (32:56.834)

My pleasure. Thank you for having me. It's an honor.

Darrin Peppard (00:01.398)

So one final quick question for you, Chad, before I let you go, people are going to want to get in touch with you and reach out and talk about bringing you in to support their PLCs and follow you on social media, maybe even just because they want to know more about the ribs that you're eating when you're out on the road. How do people follow and get in touch with Chad Dumas?

Chad Dumas (00:24.786)

I'm on Twitter and it's really easy just Chad Dumas no underline no under numbers and anything just at Chad Dumas and I've also got a website next learning solutions calm and I've got actually a specific page with about 50 free reproducibles and such even if you don't own the book that's okay you can go and access all those free reproducibles they're accessible on a solution tree website as PDFs or on my website

as Google Docs and that link is tinyurl.com slash TTLHCHAD as in teacher team leader handbook, CHAD, TTLH CHAD. And so they can access, you can access all those resources.

Darrin Peppard (01:07.982)

Perfect. We'll make sure all that stuff is down in the show notes so that everybody has access to them and they can get in contact with you.

Chad Dumas (01:15.932)

Perfect. Thank you.

All right, what a great conversation. Again, I appreciate Chad sitting down and having that conversation with me. Interesting quick story on that conversation. Chad and I recorded that and about an hour and a half later went and hung out and had lunch together here in Omaha. He had only been about an hour away in Lincoln. We went ahead and recorded and then he came over and we got to hang out. Always enjoy my time with Chad. Always enjoy having him.

Share his knowledge the guy just nobody gets PLC. It's like Chad Dumas So thank you again Chad Dumas for joining me here on the show and now it is time for a pep talk In today's pep talk. I want to share something and I did a quick little video on social media about this But I want to talk about a little bit more. I was keynoting at a school a couple of days ago and walking in from the parking lot you know, it's it's first day back for all staff and they're all gathered together and

Man, the energy was just amazing. People were super excited. You could tell they were ready to be back. They were excited to see each other. They were fired up about kind of that whole opening day convocation. But I heard a couple of folks walking in and one individual, and again, they weren't walking with me, but I just kind of overheard this. One of them said something like, well, this is the last place I want to be. And it got me thinking.

Darrin Peppard (04:44.671)

about the energy that we bring to our schools. And it got me thinking about how when we bring negative energy, how not only does that bring the people around us down, but it made me think deeply around the impact that that has in the classroom. I mean, just imagine, and we've probably all experienced it, but just imagine being in a classroom with a teacher who just genuinely doesn't want to be there.

As a student, what would that do for your energy? How would you feel about being in school? Would you be excited about learning? Probably not. And maybe that teacher just was having a bad day. Maybe, you know, they weren't even talking about, I don't want to be here because of this stuff. Maybe, you know, I don't know. I don't know their story. But what I do know is we have to be very mindful of the energy that we bring each and every day.

Because whether we like it or not, everybody else is watching and everybody else is going to feed off of our energy because every single one of us has the opportunity to be a leader. And we truly are a leader within the work that we do. So take that for what it's worth. marinate on that a little bit, maybe even hit me with some comments. I know that that's maybe, something that sounds obvious, but could also be a little bit of a controversial topic. So.

Appreciate everybody listening in and joining us here on YouTube. Thank you guys so much. The growth of the podcast, honestly, over the last three months has been just absolutely remarkable. I don't know what it is and I just want to keep riding that wave. if you would please, if you haven't already, leave us a review, whether you're listening on Spotify, listening on Apple or Google podcasts or any other platform, please leave us a review. Leave us some words of encouragement.

encouragement, share this podcast with other people who you think could also benefit from the message here on Leading Into Leadership. I appreciate each and every one of you wishing all of you a great kickoff to the beginning of your school year. Thank you so much for joining me and get out there and have a road to awesome week.