Episode 251: Overcoming Passion Drift - A Conversation with Dr. Danny Steele

Darrin Peppard (00:00.878)

Hey everybody, welcome into episode 251 of the Leaning Into Leadership podcast. Look, before we jump into today's conversation, I just want to take a moment to set the stage for what you are about to hear. This episode to me is very special. I'm sitting down and having a conversation with someone who has helped to shape my leadership journey, someone I've known for a long time, I respect at such a high level and

Honestly, someone who just continues to make a powerful impact on educators across the country. My friend, Dr. Danny Steele. We're gonna talk about passion drift. That thing that happens when we lose our edge, whether we're a teacher or we're in a leadership role. And we're gonna talk about how do you get it back? We're gonna talk about vulnerability. We're gonna talk about clarity, curiosity, and how do you show up as the school leader, the instructional leader?

that is really needed in your building. This is a conversation that is very honest, it's very energizing, and it is filled with tons of practical insights that you can take with you today. Speaking of being an instructional leader, look, you've heard me say it here on the show so many times, clarity and leadership starts with visibility. You cannot improve what you don't see. That's why I am so excited and just love working with our partners at Digicoach.

You see with Digicoach, school leaders can get into classrooms, can collect real-time evidence of instruction, and turn those observations into meaningful coaching conversations. It simplifies the walkthrough process so you can focus on what truly matters, students and learning. If you are ready to strengthen your coaching culture and lead with purpose, visit digicoach.com and mention that I sent you for special partner pricing.

Once again, that's digicoach.com. Tell them that Darren sent you. All right, let's dive into this conversation with my friend, Dr. Danny Steele. I'll see you on the other side.

Darrin Peppard (00:00.844)

You know, every now and again here on the show, I get to sit down with people that I've known for quite some time. Oftentimes the guests that I have here on the show are people I'm just getting to know and really excited about what they're doing. In this particular case, sitting down with Danny Steele is something that should have happened a long time ago. And I'm so glad that we get the opportunity now. I know we're going to talk about how you and I met, kind of the history that we have together, but before we do any of those things, just

Let me say Danny, welcome into leaning into leadership.

Danny Steele (00:34.097)

Darren, I appreciate it. I think the world of you, you've been a great mentor for me over the years and I appreciate you having me on.

Darrin Peppard (00:43.54)

Absolutely, man. And that goes both ways. You know, certainly, again, we've we've definitely got some history there. And, you know, I go back to, know, when we first met back, I believe around 2016, and just get to, you know, have an opportunity to spend some time with you back then and following your career, you know, obviously, the, the books, the blogging, the, you know, the different principal roles that you've held, and now you stepping into the entrepreneur world is really exciting. So

Danny Steele (00:55.835)

Yeah.

Darrin Peppard (01:12.654)

Let's do this just for the few people who don't know who Danny Steele is because I know most people listening are like, I know who Danny Steele is, you know, I love that guy. Give them a little here's who Danny is. Here's what Danny is all about. And then we'll just jump right in.

Danny Steele (01:28.903)

Well, I was a history teacher for eight years and coached, became an assistant principal, was a high school AP for 10 years. And then I was a principal for 12 years. I did have a year where I taught in higher ed, but so 12 years as a principal. And I sort of stepped away from that a year and a half ago to start a business.

I've just been really, really lucky over the years to be able to work and collaborate with amazing educators. it continues to be a great ride. And I've found a lot of inspiration from the great educators that I've worked with, people like you. Do you mind if I share how we met?

Darrin Peppard (02:21.344)

No, that would be great. Yeah, go for it.

Danny Steele (02:22.845)

So in 2016, you'll remember the year that I was named Alabama's Principal of the Year, they sent all the state Principals of the Year to a conference in DC. And so I ran into this dude, Principal of the Year from Wyoming, this bald guy named Darren Peppered. And when I first spoke to you, I even remember the door, we were standing in a doorway, I think after a session.

and you mentioned you had this hashtag that you were starting to work with called Road to Awesome. Hashtag Road to Awesome. And that dude, man, that just freaking fired me up. It resonated with me at such a visceral level because like that's what I'm about. Like I don't want anything to do with mediocrity. My goal is to be awesome and I love hanging around people that are aspiring to awesomeness. So that's where I'm like, this is

I found a kindred spirit here in DC and I'm glad that now we can be connected. So it's been a blast to follow you over the years and I just want you to know that hashtag and now it's sort of become your brand and you wrote a book about it and speak about it. I absolutely love it. It still fires me up.

Darrin Peppard (03:43.439)

Well, I appreciate that so much. you know, it's interesting that that 2016 principal of the year group, you are actually the third member of the the POI 16 group to be here on the podcast. Certainly, you know, Dr. Jay Dostle, who was principal of the year that you're with us from Nebraska, back here in Nebraska. Now he's a high school principal here in the Omaha area.

Danny Steele (04:07.335)

Nebraska.

Darrin Peppard (04:11.874)

But he's also been principal of year in Arkansas, which is an interesting twist. Jay has been on the show a couple of times, and then also Dr. Kevin Lyne, who was principal of year in South Dakota and was a part of our group as well, was on here just a little while back with Dr. Casey Shaheed to talk about the principal recovery network, NASSP does for schools who have experienced violence on their campus. yeah, there's a lot of...

a lot of very positive memories from that time in DC. one thing I hope you don't mind me telling this story, but I'm going to tell it whether you would mind or not. At the end of our day, on the hill, going and lobbying, meeting with our legislators, the collective NASSP group met back at a, you know, at a local establishment and

you know, they had, you know, snacks for us and we're having drinks and that kind of stuff. And while most of us are spending time just, you know, sharing stories from the day and having conversations with folks. Danny Steele is running around with his cell phone, having each one of us. Yeah, you know where I'm going with this. So the campus that Danny was on, they were the warriors and he opened his,

Danny Steele (05:23.516)

Yeah.

Darrin Peppard (05:31.328)

announcements every day or encloses announcements with it's a great day to be a warrior. So every single one of us got to do a little video with it's a great day to be a warrior. And I mentioned to my wife the other day that you and I were going to be recording this podcast. She's like, Isn't he the it's a great day to be a warrior guy. Even she remembers that.

Danny Steele (05:51.87)

Yeah, I had actually forgotten that, but yeah, that was definitely a memory. And you know, that award was certainly a cool thing, but you and I both know behind any successful principal is a faculty that is crushing it. So you and I were both riding the coattails of some awesome teachers, and that's important that we're always mindful of that.

Darrin Peppard (05:54.604)

Yeah.

Darrin Peppard (05:58.052)

Go.

Darrin Peppard (06:10.092)

Absolutely.

Darrin Peppard (06:15.854)

Yeah.

Darrin Peppard (06:20.416)

Absolutely. Well, and I know that's become an area that become it already was back in 2016 for you. Well, even before that, that you have just this tremendous heart for, for educators, specifically for teachers. you know, I remember at the time and in many ways you inspired me to start blogging a little bit more. you were

You know, your Steel Thoughts blog has been going for a long, long time and just some incredible stuff that you've shared on there. But I mean, and ultimately that led to you writing a couple of books with Todd Whitaker, which I've got to learn more about how that experience was working with Todd. We all think the world of Todd, but what an experience that had to be. But just that heart.

caring about teachers, caring about educators. And I know that's now the work you're doing is pouring into educators everywhere that you possibly can in every way you possibly can. One, I'm curious, I know where it comes from, but maybe share a little bit of why that's such a passion for you and maybe even what is it that you're seeing and that problem that you're trying to.

help alleviate with the work you're doing now.

Danny Steele (07:42.872)

A number of years ago, I was on a podcast with a school leader, and I think he's in New Jersey, and the name of the podcast was My Bad. And he had educators on to talk about like a big mistake that they had made in their career. And I've shared, I shared this story. I was a young assistant principal, and I really was itching to be a principal. And the principal at our school was retiring.

And so naturally I thought I had dibs on the job and I'm like, okay, I'm going to step up to the plate here. And we were writing back from a meeting, the principal and I, during that application process. And he said, Danny, I think some of the teachers view you more as an advocate for students than for teachers.

Well, like, that really made me angry. I'm like, yeah, we're here for the kids. Like, I thought that would be a badge of honor for me. I'm like, the adults can take care of themselves. Well, you know, I didn't get the job. And, you know, I had to wait a few more years before I could become a principal. That summer, I resolved this would have been the summer, I think, of 2003.

That summer I resolved that I was going to be a champion for teachers.

And I think that this lesson, this doesn't always come natural for administrators because most educators, they get into education because they want to make a difference for kids, because they care about kids. Well, the moment you become an administrator, your new mission needs to be making a difference for the adults, for the staff. Now, obviously, we still love on the kids. I mean, you know me taking birthday selfies with the kids.

Danny Steele (09:38.482)

But that was a paradigm shift for me as a school leader. And my biggest turning point, I realized that as an administrator, I will be defined by my ability to support the teachers. that has been my passion. Teachers become my heroes. And when I started thinking about them differently,

You know, previously I think I was aggravated a lot of times because of all the discipline referrals. And I'm thinking, this discipline referral could have been handled if the teacher had better classroom management. And so I think subconsciously I resented some of that. And I just like wiped my brain clean of that. And I'm like, teachers, they drive our school.

and I want to support them at every turn and that became my passion.

Darrin Peppard (10:35.02)

I love that so much and I think you hit so many key points in there, but the one that I think I want to call out the most is that transition when you move from. Teacher to administrator. Understanding that yes, you still serve the kids, but that your number one responsibility is to serve the adults in that building. It takes me back to a time when.

a good friend of mine who's now a superintendent in Mississippi had moved into an assistant superintendent role. And he was really struggling with knowing who he really served. And he's one of the greatest servant leaders that I've ever met. His name is Rhett Ladner. I think the absolute world of Rhett Ladner. But we had this conversation, and I just ask him very simply,

who do you really serve? And he had to stop and really think about it. And he started with, I serve the kids. I said, but how do you do that? And I think that got him to kind of back up a little bit and think, wait a minute, you're right. My job as the assistant superintendent now is to serve those adults to really pour into specifically for him, principals and assistant principals, so they could then do the same thing. We're in a time right now, Danny.

And I'd love to hear you riff a little bit on this, where more and more and more administrators, more and more teachers, they're exhausted, they're worn out. Some may say they're burned out. And I mean, just this morning, I had a coaching call with one of the leadership teams that I support, this particular group in Virginia. And the call began with just one of the assistant principals being on it first. And she said,

Darren, I'm tired. I'm tired. My teachers are tired. And we're kind of ride that wave into the break, but we're tired. But I think it's more than being tired, Danny. And I know that what you have really identified as the area that you want to pour into goes beyond just that we're tired. So talk a little bit about what you see and how you feel leaders can best.

Darrin Peppard (13:00.216)

help teachers get it back.

Danny Steele (13:02.737)

Yeah, well, the way I talk about it is passion drift. I definitely, mean, how you describe the stress and the challenge that teachers and leaders face, it's a real thing. And I mean, we know how hard it is. And so people can start to lose a little bit of their edge, a little bit of their passion. And that's what I wanna do, is I wanna help educators overcome that.

work through that. And for me as a school leader, it became important to redefine my light bulb moments. And you know as a teacher, we know what light bulb moments are. It's like when the kids eyes light up, when they get the lesson, when they finally understand. Well, I became an administrator and I didn't get to have those same light bulb moments.

This is the most gratifying part of our career and as administrator I'm not getting that because I'm not teaching the kids. I'm not in the classroom. My light, this sort of aha moment for me was when I realized that I still have light bulb moments. They're just different and if I can help a teacher with a challenging student, I'm making a difference. That's a light bulb moment for me.

If I can help a teacher navigate a dicey email with a high maintenance parent, that's a light bulb moment for me. I know that I'm mattering, right? If I can...

Danny Steele (14:41.829)

If I can help a teacher move their filing cabinet, right? That's a little thing, but if you have your head on a swivel when you're walking the school, those light bulb moments are all around. You know that because you've been in the job for so long. And I find that, yeah, it's hard and there's a lot of emotional labor that goes with it. But when you are...

being mindful of those light bulb moments. There's opportunities to make a difference for kids and staff all around. And for me, for 31 plus years, that has always sustained me. And so I think that's a big part of sort of overcoming the passion drift and maintaining your edge, maintaining your commitment to making a difference for the people you work with.

Darrin Peppard (15:31.161)

So I'm gonna bird walk for just a second. Listeners, I'm speaking to you right now. You've heard me for a very long time here on the show. This is episode 251, for goodness sakes. Those of you who have been listening for a long time, so many times, you have heard me talk about, as a leader, the most important thing you can do is be clear about what matters to you. I cannot capture being clear what matters to you more than what Danny just said.

crystal clear about this is what I truly care about this is what I truly want to do this is how I truly want to lean in and make a difference that's when you truly get that leadership piece that's when you really are crushing it and I will tell you for a ton of years listen to me I'm getting like half emotional just listening to you talk Danny but for a lot of years that's exactly what you did that is how you led

your schools. And now that's what you're doing to pour into educators all over the place. So let's talk about that a little bit. Thanks for letting me birdwalk for a second. Let's talk about that just a little bit. What does that look like? So So I'm a I'm a, I'm a superintendent, and I'm listening to this show. And you said passion drift, and I sat up. Or I went, Wait a minute. Let's hit that back 15 second button, because I got to hear that again.

It resonated when you told me about it originally. It resonated with me because it's so much more than just I'm tired of burned out. It's it gets to the core. It gets to that passion piece. So. I'm a superintendent. I see that in my staff and I say, man, I gotta get in touch with Danny. Like what does it look like when when you have the opportunity to go to a school, go to a district?

and talk about that. What are you pushing teachers to do? What are you pushing administrators to do? Let's dig in. I'm just so curious.

Danny Steele (17:35.559)

Well, I mean, visiting schools and districts, that's still my favorite thing to do. Whether it's speaking at a convocation or a leadership retreat or coaching a principal one-on-one, I still...

Danny Steele (17:56.358)

My life is different because I'm not a principal. You know, I don't show up to a school building every day, but I still really care about the work. I still love kids. I still love teachers. I love secretaries and custodians and maintenance workers, SROs, nurses, librarians, counselors, everybody who plays a role, C &P staff, everyone who plays a role in a school. It's so important. And so

I don't know when I go in, I don't know that I'm pushing people to do anything, but I'm always trying to encourage them with...

Danny Steele (18:38.769)

the realization that

Danny Steele (18:45.435)

The reason they got into this career, that purpose still holds up. Nothing has changed. just, you know, I tell stories about ways that we built relationships and strengthened our culture in my own school, in our own school. just there are so many stories about the difference that educators make.

teachers connecting with kids, principals connecting with teachers, and I get fired up just thinking about it. And it's still such a privilege to travel and get to connect with folks like that.

Darrin Peppard (19:28.886)

It absolutely is. It's absolutely my favorite piece too. You know, I love having those opportunities to just sit down and have conversations and just listen and hear, you know, what, are the challenges? You know, I remember I said this a lot during the pandemic that, and I reminded my leaders, I was the superintendent, of course, during that time, I reminded my leaders that forever we've been able to say, you know,

to a teacher who's like, you don't get it. Yeah, I was a classroom teacher too. But here's the big difference now. And I remind myself this regularly. I don't know what it's like to be a superintendent. Well, I do post pandemic. I do know that piece. I don't know what it's like to be a principal post pandemic. I don't know what it's like to be a teacher post pandemic. So for me, it's everything I can do to lean in and listen and learn because like you, I still care so much about the work.

and I believe so much in the work and the impact that the work can truly have. I'm curious when you, let's talk specifically about the leaders. And then I wanna talk about your new book too, because I know that targets the leaders as well. But let's talk about those early leaders. You talked about my bad when you were a early career leader, when you were in that assistant principal role. We've all.

made mistakes early in our career. So if the early career leader, the person who's new in the principalship, the person who's new in the assistant principal role is listening right now, what would you give them for a piece of advice to help people when they are in that passion drift?

Danny Steele (21:23.485)

One of the things I realized early in my administrative career is the significance of insecurity. That I feel like when you look at dysfunctional dynamics in an organization or when someone is underperforming, you can almost always trace it back to some form of insecurity.

And oftentimes with school leaders, when they're young, when they're early in their career, it's easy to feel a little insecure. But the effect of that insecurity though is it manifests in not sharing, not sharing some of your authority, not collaborating with your teachers like you should, not relying on a leadership team.

you know, not trusting people to kind of do their job. You know, it can lead to some micromanagement. so I would encourage I realize you just can't tell someone to, hey, you need to be more secure. You need to feel more secure. I realize you can't say that, but but I would encourage school leaders to to not lose sight of the of the powerful role of vulnerability that

Like, your teachers don't expect you to know everything and to be everything to everybody. They want you to care about kids. They want you to support them. And they want to know that you're the real article. That you're the real deal. then sometimes you fumble. know, sometimes you fumble your way through stuff. But that's okay. When you screw up, apologize.

Do your best to right the wrong, but you're not perfect. And so it's easy for school leaders to think that they've got the weight of the world on their shoulders and they need to do everything perfectly. And that just is not happening. And when you pretend that it's happening, it actually undermines your authority because people know you're full of it, right? And you're not authentic. So just take a deep breath and...

Danny Steele (23:47.197)

Just keep loving the kids and support the staff. And it's hard to go wrong when you're doing that. And when you're leaning on the other leaders in your building and collaborating, like, that's the formula right there.

Darrin Peppard (23:59.082)

Absolutely. that's man, you're taking me back to, you know, my, my first couple of years and some of the struggles that I had and everything you just described, you know, trying to be everything to everybody and, know, trying to be perfect from day one and only get better and, and some of those things. so here's another area too, that I think is important in this, this dovetails well into, into your new book. And that is as the school leader,

you've got to be the instructional leader on your campus. And you your new book, The Instructional Leader in You, 10 Strategies for Every School Leader, super excited about this brand new book. It just came out here within the last couple of days. We'll have a link in the show notes, by the way, folks, for you to go and grab copies of that and that type of thing. Let's talk a little bit about that instructional leader role. That's something certainly with me, all the leaders that I coach around the country, they know.

especially when I'm on campus, we're not going to sit in the office and sit and talk. We're going to get out. We're going to go into classrooms because I'm going to push, get in the classroom and really truly be that instruction leader and not just be there, but truly be the leader. So I'm going to turn that over to you because I want to hear your perspective. I want our listeners to hear your perspective on why do you need to be the instructional leader and maybe not all 10, but let's talk about one or two strategies that you share in this new book.

Danny Steele (25:24.177)

Yeah, so.

You know, schools don't exist so the adults can have jobs, right? Schools are for the kids and the core business is teaching and learning. And every principal, they know, they feel like they need to be the instructional leader. They want to be the instructional leader typically. Certainly the superintendents want principals to be the instructional leader. But in my experience, Darren, like,

Like that was, I always had that like on a pedestal, this concept of instructional leadership. Like it was this kind of nebulous idea that I felt like you needed to have a PhD in curriculum instruction and you needed to know all the latest brain research. You needed to know about Hattie's best practices and you need to know how to lead the PLCs. You got to know how to do the evaluations and all the look-fors. You need to understand how to disaggregate the data. Like

That's overwhelming. And principals, most principals are just trying to make it through their day, right? And so, like, principals are torn in so many directions, and they're running around putting out fires, and they want to be the instructional leader, they want to get in classrooms and have meaningful dialogue with teachers, but they feel torn in so many directions, and the management can weigh upon them. So that was kind of the inspiration for for this latest book is...

Darrin Peppard (26:30.688)

Exactly. Yeah.

Danny Steele (26:54.425)

I wanted to help school leaders reconceptualize what it means to be the instructional leader, in that by embracing some basic strategies or kind of shifting your thinking a little bit, you can really move the needle with teaching and learning without all of a sudden acquiring a whole bunch of new expertise. Like, just because you were a PE teacher and coach, now you find yourself a principal and you're

instructional leader working with a calculus teacher. So what does instructional leadership look like there? Right? You don't know calculus. And so, you know, in the book I talk through that in the very strategies, you know, how you can still be that instructional leader.

Darrin Peppard (27:39.042)

Yeah, absolutely. know, I was, I was reflecting back. had an opportunity obviously to, you know, to preview the book and, you know, to offer some words of praise for the book. But the thing that, that really struck me, mean, there are 10 very, very strong strategies in here, but one of the things that I love to push leaders on you went at from the very beginning of the book.

And that is simply leading with a curious mindset. So I can't end this podcast without us talking about the curious mindset for an instructional leader. Why is this so important? And how do instructional leaders use that curiosity to drive better instruction?

Danny Steele (28:30.717)

Yeah, well first thanks again for taking time to review the book and offering those kind words about it. You know, one of the strategies you know is culture because the right teaching and learning doesn't happen in a vacuum. It happens in the right culture. And so that's the last chapter of the book. You know, in a lot of ways I was tempted. Like culture is in a lot of ways my wheelhouse. So I was tempted to put that at the beginning.

But curiosity really needed to be the first chapter because curiosity is what compels you to even care about the culture, right? Curiosity is foundational and it requires no expertise. That's one of the things I absolutely love about it. It's really just a commitment to caring about wanting to be better, about wanting to be a better school leader, about wanting to help lead a stronger school.

about wanting to support teachers more effectively. So, it's, you know, there's any number of questions you can think about, like, you know, what are my strengths as a principal? What are my areas for growth? Right? Those are questions. What type of support do my teachers need? I wonder. You know, there's a book for marriage, The Five Love Languages. Well, you can sort of apply that to teachers.

Different teachers need different types of support. They want different types of support. They're at different levels in their career. And so that might look differently. And so so being curious about that. I talk about taking some time to wonder about things. I wonder I wonder what the best bell schedule for our students would be. I wonder. I wonder how AI is going to change the way we deliver instruction and assessment. I wonder.

I wonder if our teachers really understand how the high-stakes testing in the spring is going to take... Just asking questions is what leads to growth, but it starts with caring to want to get better and then just being relentless about asking questions. And I will point out, all of these chapters, they go together. There's a whole lot of overlap.

Danny Steele (30:58.875)

and they complement one another because another strategy is vulnerability. And so I won't talk a lot about that now except to say there is a level of vulnerability required in being curious, right? You have to ask questions sometimes when the answer might be uncomfortable. Even asking the question is an admission that you don't have all the answers. So that's where insecurity can be a barrier to this important...

Darrin Peppard (31:12.524)

Absolutely.

Danny Steele (31:26.715)

strategy of being curious and asking questions.

Darrin Peppard (31:30.06)

Absolutely. And there's one other that I want to get to that I think is super, super important. And in some ways, it's kind of saying the quiet part out loud. In some ways, it's kind of the piece that maybe principals don't think about when they go into classrooms, at least initially early in their career. And that's simply, and I don't remember the chapter number, but it's a ways into the book, you talk about prioritizing learning instead of prioritizing

teaching. And again, that's saying the quiet part out loud, but it's about learning. The teaching part is the vehicle that gets you there, but that's the product. So I'm not going to say any more about that. I just, I'm teeing it up for you. Let's talk about why learning over teaching.

Danny Steele (32:03.591)

Yeah.

Danny Steele (32:17.617)

Yeah, you know, a lot of your listeners will probably be familiar with the work of the DeFors on PLCs and those four driving questions of, you know, they're focused on the kids. What do we want the kids to know and be able to do? How will we know when they know it? What are we going to do for them if they don't know it? What are we going to do for the ones who already know it? So it's a focus on students. so that's one of the things I love about their work.

It's easy to get caught up in, you know, we've got great teachers in our building and some of them are dynamic and innovative and it can be really easy to get preoccupied with what the teachers are doing. But where the rubber meets the road is what are the students doing? So I tell young administrators when you go into classrooms, be more preoccupied with what the kids are doing than whether or not what the teacher's doing. Because if the teacher's teaching a great lesson but the kids are asleep or the kids are

are not engaged, like it doesn't matter. So being willing, know, part of instructional leadership is helping teachers really be focused on the results of their work. So I've taught the lesson, did the kids learn it? How do I know if the kids have learned it? And because that's really where the magic is, is when we can see the data, like,

I really, Darren, I tried so hard to write a book that didn't have jargon, right? I was wanting to write a, I was wanting to reconceptualize instructional leadership and this is a field that's just absolutely chock full of jargon, so I tried not to use it. But this chapter is the one chapter where I had to talk about the word data. You know, what is, someone told me another word I can use and so I've started saying that some as evidence, right? What's the evidence that our students are learning?

Darrin Peppard (34:03.105)

Yeah.

Danny Steele (34:13.051)

What's the evidence that our teaching is having the effect that we want it to have? Just keeping teachers, having them fixated on looking for the evidence, that's what needs to be driving instruction. And that is the essence of instructional leadership.

Darrin Peppard (34:28.692)

Absolutely. I'll add this piece on. So yes to everything you said and administrators, here's a great question you can ask your teachers. And this loops back to the curiosity piece. One of my favorite questions asked teachers now, how does a student know they were successful today? Not how do you know? How does the kid know? Because that gets to learning, not to teaching. I mean, yes, teaching is again, that's how it got there. But how does a kid know?

So like really understanding that success criteria and not as a jargon word because that's another one that's been thrown around a lot. But how does a kid know? yeah, yeah, I did learn that today. Or yeah, I am successful today and here's why not, you know, whatever. Like the teacher says, well, here's what I said, you know, or here's what I did. Yeah, I taught a great lesson, but did they even get that? And I know we can riff on this stuff for hours.

hours and hours and I'm loving this conversation so much. we're at that point in the show, Danny, where I'm going to ask you the same question I ask everybody here on the podcast. This is the Leaning Into Leadership podcast. So how are you leaning into leadership right now?

Danny Steele (35:27.431)

Yeah.

Danny Steele (35:43.218)

Well, know, leaders, one of my core philosophies about leadership is a commitment to collaborating with others and learning from others. And, you know, I've talked to you a lot about this new time in my life where I'm sort of writing my next chapter.

And I'm fumbling my way through sometimes and don't know what I'm doing. And so I'm doing everything I can to learn from people like you and others who have been doing this a little bit longer. You know, I have my own leadership coach that I'm working with. And, you know, I'm living in a very vulnerable spot right now. But, dude, I am being I'm trying my best to be relentlessly curious.

asking so many questions and trying to condition myself to chat GPT. Okay, how do you do this? So yeah, I feel like I'm definitely leaning into that right now.

Darrin Peppard (36:52.31)

Absolutely, without question. And you know what, you're certainly off to a great, great start in this new chapter without question. man, so much good stuff today. I know people are gonna wanna connect with you. I know you've got a brand new website. So Danny, how do people get in touch with you? How do they learn more? How do they get copies of the book? Again, we will put a link in the show notes for people to head right over to Amazon and buy the book. But how do people get in touch with Danny Steele?

Danny Steele (37:18.491)

Yeah, I'm excited about my new website, Stealthoughts.com. I think you're linking that in show notes. All my books are available on Amazon. On social media, I'm at Stealthoughts and my email is danny at Stealthoughts.com.

Darrin Peppard (37:25.089)

Absolutely.

Darrin Peppard (37:35.724)

outstanding stuff. will make sure all of that is down there in the show notes so folks can get in touch with you. Man, this has just been so much fun, Danny. Thanks so much for joining me here on Leaning Into Leadership.

Danny Steele (37:46.193)

Danny, Darren, appreciate your friendship over the years and I appreciate the way that you have encouraged me and supported me and mentored me. And I certainly appreciate the way you elevate and amplify the voices of educators on this podcast. You're doing great work around the country and I'm privileged to consider you a friend and colleague. So thanks, I appreciate you having me on.

Darrin Peppard (38:16.206)

Absolutely my friend, the feeling is mutual. We will definitely be talking again soon. Thanks so much.

Danny Steele (38:23.016)

Sounds good.

All right, folks, what an amazing conversation with Danny. Just every time I have the opportunity to sit down with Danny, I guarantee we're gonna have some laughs. I guarantee we're gonna talk about leadership and I guarantee both of us are gonna come away better.

Darrin Peppard (04:01.847)

for having been a part of that conversation. So I'm grateful that you had the opportunity to listen into one of our conversations. And hopefully you took away some great, some, some really great information. Make sure you get down on the show notes and go get a copy of Danny's new book. I've read it. It's fantastic. You will absolutely love it. It's practical. It's easy. It's like, okay. I can do that as an instructional leader. And now it's time for a pep talk. So earlier today, I had a conversation

with a leadership team that I support. And as the conversation began, it was just one of the assistant principals. And then the other two ended up joining the call a couple of minutes later. But as I was having this conversation with this assistant principal who is in her second year, she's doing a fantastic job, by the way, just grows leaps and bounds. Like every time we talk, I'm so impressed with her. But she said to me today, when I asked her how she was doing, she said, Darren, I'm tired.

I'm tired. My staff is tired. You know, we're worn out. Behaviors are increasing. People are shorter with their patience and with their temper. And I'm just tired. Hey, here on the pep talk today, I just want to simply tell you this. You're not alone. You are not alone. Honestly, if you're not tired at this point as a leader, you're probably not doing the job right. I want to reinforce that

it's okay to feel that way. It's okay to acknowledge that as a leader, hey, I get tired sometimes I get a little worn out. It's also okay to tell your teachers that that it's okay to acknowledge that lean into them, give them some support, give them a little bit of love and let them know, hey, I see you, hear you, value you, and I trust you. Because here's the bottom line leaders. That's how I feel about each and every one of you. Every one of you listeners who join us each and every week here on the podcast. I see you

I hear you, value you, and I trust you. Thank you so much for joining me here on the Leaning Into Leadership podcast, folks. Get out there. Have a road to awesome week.