Episode 261: Reclaiming Human Connection with Joe Beckman

Darrin Peppard (00:00.568)

Hey everybody, welcome into episode 261 of the Leaning Into Leadership podcast. Today's episode is a really special one. I recorded this episode on location in Edmond, Oklahoma earlier this week. And usually when I record, I don't turn them around quite that quick, but my goodness, this conversation is incredible. I was keynoting the OASSP and OMLEA conference along with

my friend, Joe Beckman. Joe and I had not seen each other in person in a few years, and we spent a little time catching up, and then we decided, hey, why don't we just record a podcast episode? And that's what we did. And in this conversation, we're gonna talk about something that every leader says matters, but not every leader treats it like it truly does. That's human connection. What happens when human connection becomes just one more thing on your plate?

And what if connection isn't just one more thing? What if it actually is the plate? Now, before we dive into this amazing conversation, I wanna spend a moment and thank our incredible sponsors who make this episode of the Leaning Into Leadership podcast possible. This episode is brought to you by Digicoach.

Man, I love the crew at Digicoach. The work they do is absolutely incredible. And look, if you are serious about instructional leadership, Digicoach helps you move beyond compliance-like walkthroughs and into real coaching conversations with your teachers. It is such an incredible user-friendly platform that allows you to collect meaningful walkthrough data, provide targeted feedback, and align your coaching

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This episode is also brought to you by HeyTutor. Man, you talk about another incredible group of people doing amazing work on behalf of kids. HeyTutor, they deliver customized evidence-based high dosage math and ELA tutoring solutions to K-12 school districts across the country. Their programs are aligned with state standards and they are designed to close learning gaps through in-person and online support. They recruit, train, hire, and manage

all tutors as HeyTutor employees, removing the burden from school districts. With adaptive curriculum and a dashboard that tracks results in real time, HeyTutor makes it easier for schools to support students who need it the most. Make sure you check them out at heytutor.com. Even better, hit the link in the show notes. That will let them know you heard about them here on the Leaning Into Leadership podcast. All right, folks.

It's time to lean into this conversation. Joe Beckman is an individual who has spent more than 20 years traveling the world with one simple mission, to reclaim human connection. In this conversation, we talk about technology, storytelling, vulnerability, leadership isolation, and what it really takes to build strong cultures in our schools. This one's timely, it's practical, and it's deeply needed. So let's get started with my friend, Joe Beckman. I'll see you on the other side.

speaker-1 (00:03.052)

Alright everybody, welcome into the Leaning Into Leadership podcast. This is a really super special episode. I am on location in Edmond, Oklahoma with my friend Joe Beckman. Joe, man, how you

I'm doing great. How are you? Bye bye my friend

doing really, really well. Joe and I are both keynote speakers here at the OASSP O LEA conference. Yeah, that's what it is. It's like an alphabet soup. Yeah. And we just had a little bit of downtime. And so it was like, hey, let's let's just let's record a podcast podcast episode really quick. So, Joe, let's do this just, I guess, for you know, I've known you for a long time.

There's a lot of letters.

speaker-1 (00:45.72)

But maybe some people in my audience don't really know you. Just real quick, give them a little taste of who Joe Beckman is.

Yeah, I am a speaker and an author. I have been doing this work for the last, gosh, 20 years in and out of the theater world and the education world. So I started as a children's theater actor. I would go around into schools and do plays around bullying and topic-based themes.

after about two years turned into working in schools, doing retreats for a nonprofit. And part of those day-long retreats were these 15 minute talks that I would give. And I liked that part the best. And I kept saying, I wanna do that, I wanna do that. And they said, we do this. And so I decided I was gonna pivot and focus in on creating keynote talks. And I started working with students and that ballooned out to staff, which ballooned out to administrators, to parents.

I've written a couple books since then. We have a video library where all of our follow-up resources live and a little bit of a team as we're trying to go out there and make a difference in the world all around the importance and the power of human connection.

Yeah, absolutely. So there's so many things in there that I would love to chase after.

speaker-1 (02:09.838)

I think it's really interesting. We were just having dinner with the executive board of both organizations and you were telling that story. I didn't know what your path was into the speaking world. For a long time I've always been really interested with educators. How did you get into being a teacher? Because typically what people think is that, you just always want to be a teacher. And probably 90 something percent of teachers, that wasn't what they set out to be.

And I'm one of them, right? You you find your path somehow. And you kind of explained a little bit there and talked a little bit there. I know a big part of your message is that human connection piece. You heard me share a little bit during dinner about just that, the reason that I have focused so much on leadership and trying to help the person I used to be. What was it that drew you to saying, this is what I want?

to say on stage, this is how I want to help people.

Yeah, so it was interesting because when we decided to go out on our own and as my brother-in-law and I, I needed somebody that would help support the work that I did and the business side of things, we threw a lot of different things on the wall and we started looking at what is like...

what do I uniquely bring to the table that can add some value to these topics? And of course you could pick many of them, but the one that kept coming out was connection. I am really bad at like 95, 99 % of the things that I do in this world. Ask my wife, she will confirm like if you give me a power tool, like run for the hills. But the one thing that I've always been good at and always been told I'm good at, ever since I was a little kid.

speaker-0 (03:58.478)

is my ability to connect with other people. And even in 2015, before the data and the numbers around how important lack of human connection has been to our mental health and to our kids, I could see the writing on the wall. There was a lot more looking down, a lot less looking up. And when I look back at my experiences and the things that helped me grow as a human, it was the people and it was the connections from those people.

And so I started talking about the importance of looking up and making sure that the time that you have, you're using it well and that you're trying to be in connection. And what I found is that that's not just a kid message that adults need to hear that that parents are craving to figure out how do we say yes to the inevitability that is technology, but not lose the one thing that got us here in the first place. And I've been able to create some thoughts and ideas and

share those in a way that hopefully resonates and connects.

Yeah, I think that's a really powerful space. And let's maybe speak a little bit more into that. lot of our listening audience are current administrators. People are in various different roles. Maybe they're classroom teachers. Maybe they're superintendents, whatever the case may be. But that piece that you just said there, and I know you took it from the parent perspective, but I think teachers

struggle with this too. Certainly I hear it in a lot of schools too that, you know, how do we how do we bridge that that technology gap without losing that interpersonal piece. One of the schools I work with, and I think the principal was mostly joking, but there's a part of him, he said, I'm ready to just go back to paper, pen.

speaker-0 (05:50.414)

Yeah, mean 90 % of my problems would be gone if I didn't have social media is what I hear a lot.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. What are some of the things that you're sharing with? You pick the group, parents, know, school leaders.

Let's focus leaders. I think the biggest thing is where we're seeing connection on the priority scale. And so my analogy as a lifelong Minnesotan, we would get together a lot and do potlucks, right? Where everyone would bring something and you hope that yours went, if it went or whatever. Well, every once in a while you were asked to bring the plates. And if you brought the cheap, you

generic plates or whatever that would like crush with a cheeto on it. Like you never get asked back. But if you brought the chinettes, man, those industrial grade steel plates, you could throw whatever tater tot hot dish or green bean casserole you wanted because the plate was strong. And my point behind that is when we see connection as just one more thing on the plate, it's gonna feel like

one more thing on the plate and we're gonna lose it amongst all the other things. But when we see connection as the plate, as the foundation to everything else, and if that part of it is strong, some of the other things that are gonna come on our plate, whether we like it or not, they don't go away, but they're a little less overwhelming. And the solutions that we can build with the people around us become a little bit more manageable. And that connection piece, when we see it as the priority,

speaker-0 (07:22.23)

and the foundation rather than just one more thing. I think that's where even people who go, I'm not good at connection. I'm here to teach history, not empathy. Like, come on, all that stuff. But I think when we show that the data around it and how important it is and how the biggest thing, this is the biggest thing is that small things can do so much. Like literally a nickname for a kid, a high five in the hallway. We had a geometry teacher.

Her name was Miss Forbes. She never high-fived kids in the hallway. In fact, it would have been super weird if Miss Forbes was like, hey, high five. She was not that teacher, but she would come up to us one-on-one and she would say, scale a one to five. How was your weekend? And we'd know five or three or whatever. And what I realize now is she wasn't necessarily looking for the fours and the fives as much as she was looking for the ones. And if there was a pattern of that, I think she was looking to find, and just her way of building a connection.

And with that connection, being able to support students even beyond the academics. So I think a little things go further than we know. And when we see it as the foundation, yeah, everything else flourishes.

I think that's such an important way to look at it because right now, man, and this isn't just true in education, but I mean that's really who we're kind of talking about right now.

every one of us have so much on our plates. And we think about, you know, just one more thing. And I mean, I like how you talk about that as the, you know, as that foundation. Also love the analogy with the chinette plate versus the generic paper plate that would fall apart. By the way, my wife would never come to your potluck because she is the daughter of a health inspector and just...

speaker-0 (09:12.686)

None of that passes. No one ever brought plastic gloves. Let's just say that.

No potlucks.

She's a Midwest kid. She was born in Iowa, for goodness sakes, right? But anyway, I digress on that. But I do think that's such an important way to think about that. especially, and I want to push a little bit more here. think the audience is like, please give me a little bit more here, Joe. Especially if you are a high school administrator and you have those high school teachers. I was a high school teacher. I was a high school principal.

And you know what, I had a handful of staff that, you know what, I'm here to teach psychology. I'm here, you know, traditionally, I shouldn't just say psychology, it sounds like I'm singling someone else. traditionally, secondary educators, not that they don't love kids, but they love their content. So I'm sure you've run into a few in your time.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Subject is your... Yeah.

speaker-1 (10:16.408)

that push back a little bit more that maybe a leader can say, other than just simply pick up the phone and call Joe, seriously. But what's something that maybe you can help them to...

speaker-0 (10:32.142)

Well, I just- I mean- mean- a couple things. You know better than I do, because I've never been in your shoes, that if you can get 80 % of your staff on board with anything, that's a huge win. You might always have somebody who doesn't feel connection is important. And I don't think you ever give up or whatever, but I also don't think you call yourself a bad leader because you don't have 100 % participation. I do think when we can explain the why of anything-

that always makes the thing we're asking for a little bit easier. And the whole idea behind the content is like, hey, that physics lesson that you wanna get to the kid's brain, one of the best ways that you can get it there and more important, get it there to retain is if we can somehow enter through the heart. And what I always say to teachers, no matter who you are, where you come from, what your performance level is or not, one of the greatest ways that we can get to a kid's brain

through their heart is through the power of story. I remember not every lesson might need to have a story, but if you want to get a message, whatever it is, a piece of information to a kid's brain, a story on the front end will set the tone. It will allow you to play in a space outside of the academic world. And if you're brave enough and you tell that story about you,

it gets them to see a little bit different side of you. And if you wanna go cherry on the cherry on the cherries on the Sunday, don't tell the story about when you knocked it out of the park and won the game for the team. Talk about the time you struck out in the bottom of the ninth with the bases loaded and everyone, you kind of was mad at you. Those times where you maybe didn't have it figured out or maybe there's a part of the lesson that you struggled with when you were in high school.

And if you can just set the tone around, know, this is something that maybe I didn't know all that well and you show just a little bit of vulnerability in any area of your life, I think that will allow that message that you wanna get to their brain to get there a lot faster. It helps you build connection and it's one of those things that everybody has. Everybody has 30 seconds at the beginning of a lesson to scaffold around it with a quick story. It doesn't have to be the most compelling.

speaker-0 (12:52.726)

It doesn't have to be yours, but just something that allows you to talk about something that you're interested in or passionate about and then get into the lesson.

That's super powerful. I love that. know, just listening to you talk about that takes me back to I was a sophomore in high school and my geometry teacher. I'm not a guy who likes math. And my geometry teacher had applied for the NASA space shuttle mission.

Nor am I.

speaker-1 (13:22.912)

that ultimately Krista McAuliffe was the teacher and unfortunately, you that was a tragedy. But, and I don't know if my teacher was a finalist or a semi, I just know she was in the mix. And she told us this story. then, I mean, we were like six year olds at this point in time. We weren't, we were sophomores in high school, but everything, she tried to find ways to connect it to anything to do with the space program.

I for me, I did pretty darn well in geometry that year. Yep. And I really think, and God love Mary Mohler, you know, I still don't really care for math, because of that, that's where you're taking me. mean, that's, that's story. I think that's, that's such a powerful thing. I love that so much. really do. But what I want to, what I want to ask next though,

Same vein of thinking, but now let's talk about that student to student piece. I know you do a lot of work with students as well. Man, I'll tell you what, the schools I'm in right now, I see kids that are just glazed over looking into their laptop screens. When they're in the hall, they're looking into their phones. That interpersonal communication, mean, when we were in school,

Back in my day.

Back in my day, if you will, it was just so different and you stayed outside until the street light came on and that meant you had to go home and have dinner or whatever. That's just not what this generation is growing up with. So when you're working student to student with large groups of students, what are some things you're doing to help them reconnect or find ways to get that connection that isn't just through the technology?

speaker-0 (15:16.754)

Yeah, I think first and foremost, we have to call out the fact that kids these days are the same kids that they were 50 years ago and the same kids and different, obviously, obviously, but the environment around them is really what's different. Their deep needs, their wants, their desires to belong, to make an impact, to leave our world better than we found it. All of that hasn't changed.

but when you're giving them the most addictive device in the history of the planet that literally sends the same signals to their brains that every addictive thing, cigarettes, drugs, that's dopamine, hit after hit after hit after hit, and then we look at kids and go, kids these days, what on earth is going on with them? They can't talk to us, they can't make eye contact, they don't know how to have conflicting conversations, they sit in their room.

And all of that is absolutely true, but when we blame kids for it, I think we're looking through the wrong lens. Like, I think we have to start seeing what's happening right now, almost like we did back in the day. There was this big organization, an entity called Big Tobacco. Their number one job with the product they sold was to put things in that product, but not tell anybody about it. And those things made us addicted. And now we look back 40 years later,

And we say things like, do you know they used to smoke cigarettes in airplanes and in hospitals and no one would, how dumb were they? But we didn't know what we didn't know because we didn't understand what was going on behind the product. And if you don't think big tobacco has been replaced by big tech, you're wrong, right? There are people making millions of dollars, making sure every ring, ding, notification, vibration that we get systematically.

gets us to look back down because it makes somebody else money and so they're really, really good. And so it's more important than ever because of all the ring, ding, bling, vibrations, all the different things. It's so important for us as adults to get our stuff figured out so that we are models for what we are asking for from our kids. I cannot tell you, I don't know who needs to hear this right now, but I'm guilty of.

speaker-0 (17:33.922)

Get off your phone, get off your phone, get off, hold on real quick, I just gotta send a quick text and then 45 minutes later I'm doom scrolling and what did I just do with my time? And I think we do that a lot as adults, we think we've got it figured out, but when we model what we are asking for from our kids, that's the best leadership that we can have. And so what it means is, number one, have a few sacred spaces where the phone doesn't go. Dinner table, car.

bedroom, whatever it may be, because if that phone is not there, we're not as tempted. If it is there, we're gonna lose that battle, right? So, couple sacred spaces, a couple non-negotiables of like back in the day, like I always say parents are like, what do I do? And adults, what do we do with kids? We never grew up with it. I'm like, how many of you would let your kids open up your liquor cabinet while you went away for the weekend and had all their friends? You'd say no, absolutely not. How many of you would let your kids swear in church?

No, absolutely not. We have these hard non-negotiables in all these other areas in our lives, and then we feel helpless when it comes to the phone. And so I think it's really important that we take the power back, and if we're paying for a phone that we have a few, if you don't like it, then you don't get a phone. And so one of ours is, yeah, we're gonna make sure nobody in our family has social media until at least ninth grade, because that's what the data comes back and shows is like.

the most vulnerable time is in middle school. That's a non-negotiable. You don't like it, you don't get a phone. And so we have a few of those as a family, and I do a few of those as my own personal self that I think helps me at least have a balance between this technology and connection. But I think when we're blaming kids, that's the problem. And Darren, I don't know if you ever played golf. yeah, I But you stopped playing golf? So I was a better golfer in eighth grade.

than I am now as a 46 year old adult. I'm stronger, I'm better, I think I could hit the ball farther, but the reason I'm not as good is because I've stopped practicing. And when we stop practicing anything, we get really weak connection as a practice, as a skill, excuse me. When we stop practicing that skill, so when you're at a restaurant, parents or leaders or...

speaker-0 (19:53.678)

whoever's watching this, and you order for your children and you don't make them get off their screens and make awkward eye contact, we're passing up an opportunity to give our kids practice into these connection skills that require a lot. And so that would be like, try to give as much practice to the connection that you can instead of stripping it away because it's easier or more efficient.

I think that's fantastic. I could just sit here and listen to you talk about connection like all night long and and after we wrap this up we probably will go and talk more about this you know over a beverage of some kind. Yes. I'm curious I mean obviously again we're here at this conference on the opening keynote, Joe's the closing keynote. What tell us just a little bit of what your message is going to be for this audience here in I don't know a day and a half.

Yeah, we're, think the message specifically is that obviously it's gonna be around human connection, but let's think about what a conference like this really accomplishes. It allows you to meet people in your neck of the woods or around you that will allow you to feel like you're not on an island by yourself. And so often in leadership, we get to the point where we fight, we fight, we fight, and then all of a sudden we feel alone.

And that feeling of alone has a crippling effect on our leadership. And a conference like this really allows people to understand that even if I live 50 miles down the road, even if I live 500 miles across the state, that there are people who understand that of what I'm going through and some of the struggles that I have. And just like any good team, there are people that I can lean into when I need them, which takes a whole lot of courage as a leader.

to say, I could use a little help. I don't have it all figured out right now and I'm struggling. But a conference like this, I think, allows you to build your crew and your people and your network and your champions.

speaker-1 (21:56.782)

I love that. I love that. think that's one of the most important pieces when you get the opportunity to come together here. And guys like you and me, we don't want to just jet in and jet right back out. Typically, I'm here basically 24 hours. Usually, I like to stay a little bit longer, get to know more people, hang out, just network, just build those relationships. Because like you, I thrive on that connection and I thrive on just getting that opportunity to get to know some people and learn what

What are their struggles right now? What are the things they're successful at? What are the things they're proud of right now? We were just listening to a principal talk about, he's doing a breakout session and he's really excited about speaking and telling us a little bit about his topic. I love being able to do those kinds of things. So one final question here on the show, same question I ask everybody. This is the Leaning Into Leadership podcast. So Joe, how are you leaning into leadership?

Whew, I'm practicing it every day and I'm struggling every day and I wish I had better results as a leader. But I will say where I feel very proud of where I'm stepping into right now is being a voice in areas that I've always been quiet in and trying to lean into uncomfortable conversations and conflicting conversations.

because a guy like me likes to make people happy and likes to bring unity to like, you know, cohesion. But sometimes for many reasons, we as leaders have to lean into conversations that are the opposite of that. And as a resident of Minneapolis, Minnesota, we're in the news a lot and some of the things that are happening in our world right now are part of some of the hard conversations that

I'm starting to have, but I'm also leaning in and finding my voice in a space that I think is craving a little bit of light right

speaker-1 (24:06.318)

I love that answer and I know I said something to you about this earlier today, but I'm grateful for your voice in that space right now. The conversation that you're starting, the thoughts that you're sharing are really fantastic. folks, make sure that you're following Joe. So I mean, if that's something you want to kind of lean into as well, certainly somebody who's right there kind of in the middle of that situation. So I lied, I guess actually there is one more question here.

I like it. Bonus.

people are gonna want to get connected with you. how do they connect, whether it's social media, website, all of that kind of stuff, how do they get connected with Joe Beckman?

Absolutely. My name, luckily, is very easy to remember, Joe Beckman. And if you just throw the dot com at the end and the www at the front, you would be able to find me. At Joe Beckman, sometimes there's an underscore, sometimes there's not. I didn't understand the whole social media thing early on and so.

But if you look me up, you'll be able to find me pretty easily. I've written a couple books. Those are on Amazon, but also on my website as well, jobeckman.com. And I would love to have any conversation with anybody that is part of your crew and part of this listening audience and anybody who's fighting for kids every single day.

speaker-1 (25:25.846)

Absolutely, yeah, and folks, seriously, if you're looking for someone, you're thinking, man, I want somebody who can come and speak to my kids, speak to my staff about how we get back to human connection, reach out to Joe. Absolutely one of the very, very best at what he does. thanks so much for joining me here.

Absolutely brother, I appreciate it. This was awesome man. Thank you.

Wow, how incredible was that conversation. Folks, I'll tell you what, 99 % of the episodes I do here on the Leaning Into Leadership podcast, I do through technology. And to actually have the opportunity to sit in person with Joe to have that conversation, our conversation honestly continued several hours into the evening and.

Darrin Peppard (04:42.827)

just somebody I genuinely value and somebody I think is an incredible human being, make sure you look him up, hit all the links that are down there in the show notes, go check him out at jobeckman.com and you won't regret it folks, I promise you. And now it's time for a pep talk. So sticking with the Oklahoma Conference, shortly after my keynote, I had an administrator pull me aside and just ask a little bit of advice. And he shared with me a story about how

a handful of his teachers on his campus had just made kind of an arbitrary decision that they were going to stop accepting late work from their students. And the concept here was a decent portion of their students had stopped turning work in on time and were maybe abusing a little bit the ability to turn in late work. So they just decided, well, we'll just say we don't accept it anymore. And what that made me think about it and

Let me finish this story with him first, guess. He asked me, know, Darren, do I address this in front of the entire staff or do I talk with the individual groups? I like, what steps might you take? And it took me back immediately to a situation I had when I was a building principal. And this was my first year as a building principal. So in my situation, I had a handful of teachers, very small handful, who were sharing some things that were maybe not like terrible.

but were inappropriate for high school students on their Facebook page, and they were also friends with their students on Facebook. So it was a violation of policy. I should have, mind you, should have talked to them individually, but I did not. Instead, I talked to the entire staff. I called a staff meeting, I talked about professionalism, I talked about social media use. it did not go well.

It did not go well. And that's the story that I shared with this particular administrator. When he asked me, you know, hey, do I, you know, do I talk about this in front of the whole staff or do I just talk to the individual groups? I mean, in his case, it turns out that there's a couple of PLCs that he can just go and speak specifically to them. And I think that's the route he's going to take. But again, it brought me back to this mindset and I see it frequently and I'm guilty of it too, where we punish everyone.

Darrin Peppard (07:07.905)

because of the violations of a few. This time of year, going right along with our message from Joe today about human connection, man, sometimes we need to stop and remember when we're making decisions, if we're making a broad spectrum decision, are we inevitably and unintentionally pushing away those who support us most, who believe in us most, simply to have consequence?

for the few. I think it's something definitely we're thinking about, certainly something for all of us to contemplate in this particular time of year. If you're in education, you know right now, patience is very short and tempers are high. And if we make decisions where we punish all for consequences that really belong with just a few.

That's ultimately what's gonna happen. We'll push many, many away. So just a little something for you to think about, no challenge for you, but certainly something to think about here as we wrap up episode 261 of the Leaning Into Leadership podcast. As always, folks, I appreciate you tuning in. Make sure you are sharing this episode with others who this might be beneficial to. Make sure you rate and subscribe and review because all of those things truly matter.

Until next week, get out there and have a road to awesome week.