Sept. 17, 2025

Let Them Lead: Lessons in Leadership and Optimism with John U Bacon

Let Them Lead: Lessons in Leadership and Optimism with John U Bacon
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How do you lead a struggling team to resilience and success with heart and discipline? 

This week, we welcome John U Bacon, bestselling author, speaker, and former coach of one of America’s worst high school hockey teams, for an inspiring conversation on leadership, optimism, and building winning cultures.

John shares powerful stories from his coaching journey, emphasizing:

  • The critical importance of leading by example and practicing what you preach
  • Why optimistic leadership grounded in values beats focusing only on results
  • How building trust and giving ownership transforms teams and individual athletes
  • The value of patience, resilience, and celebrating progress in long-term culture change
  • Lessons from legendary coaches like Bo Schembechler and Herb Brooks
  • The delicate balance of discipline and empathy in effective leadership
  • Why letting your team surprise you creates breakthrough moments and success
Whether you’re leading for the first time or looking to deepen your impact, this episode offers timeless wisdom to lead with heart, courage, and clarity, building teams capable of facing any challenge.

Resources Mentioned:
  • Book: Let Them Lead — johnubacon.com
  • Upcoming book: The Gales of November — available October 7.
  • Podcast and speaking engagements — johnubacon.com
WEBVTT

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This podcast is a proud member of the Teach Better

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podcast network, Better Today, Better Tomorrow, and the podcast to

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get you there.

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You can find out.

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More at teechbetter dot com slash podcast.

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Values of our victories, that's one of the keys. And

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because we define those and we're control of those, we're

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control of our values, control of our behaviors. Every day,

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if you don't believe, no one else is going to

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find a way to be optimistic. And when you need to,

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you go back to the behaviors. Are the behaviors getting better?

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Your job? Get out of the prediction business. We do

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this way too much in leadership. This guy's gonna make it,

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this guy's and not. How do you know?

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Do you want to be a leader in a constantly

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changing world? Our emerging leaders look different, come from various

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backgrounds and from all different age groups. Leadership is changing

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and it's hard to keep up. But the good news

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you can be a leader too. You can be an

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e merging leader. Welcome to the Limitless Leadership Lounge, a

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try generational conversation for emerging leaders. Come spend some time

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with us to discuss leadership from three angles. The coach

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Jim Johnson, the Professor, doctor Reneuma Kareem, the host, John

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Gering a monthly guest, and you get in on the

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conversation on Facebook and Instagram, and be sure to follow

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us on Apple Podcasts, Spotify and Speaker. So come on

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in and make yourself comfortable.

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It's another weekendside the Limitless Leadership Lounge. This is what

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we call a try generational conversation for you, the emerging leaders,

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because we got three generations represented here.

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Coach Jim Johnson, doctor.

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Numa Kareem, and I am John Gary. Today we're joined

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by another really cool guest. Coach brings on some of

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the best guests. I love the people that Coach connects with,

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and John, you Bacon, is no different. So let's dive

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into his story. He has an incredible inspirational story. Also

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his book Let Them Lead, and an upcoming book he

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has coming out next month as this is released. So

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we got a lot to talk about today. Coach, go

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ahead and introduce John and let's dive right in.

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I've been chasing him down to get him on our podcast,

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so I appreciate that opportunity. John's worked for nearly three

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decades as a writer, speaker, and also I was a

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college professor at University of Michigan. He's written seven New

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York Times bestselling books. He won the Golden Apple Award

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for Teaching Excellence at University of Michigan. He was called

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by was it good Morning America? He was the ted

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Lasso and we're going to get into the book.

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Let them lead.

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But John is a terrific guy. We're really looking forward

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to have him. He's got too many accolades that we

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spend half the time talking about his accolades. John, without

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any further ado, welcome to the Limitless Leadership Lounge.

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Coach, Thank you very much. I'm not about you far

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longer than known about me, thanks to mister mac owain,

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of course, your celebrity bah player from two thousand and

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six video many times. I had just finished coaching out

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in the high school hockey team myself at that time,

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so I was the perfect sweet spot for that story.

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And as I said to you off air, I knew

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when I saw the story about Jason, and of course

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the artistic manager who goes in there and drops a

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bunch of three point bombs and the teammates go crazy,

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the crowd goes crazy. It's a cool moment. No doubt

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about it, and got a lot of national attention. But

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I knew that's the chair in the top of a

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very good Sunday that takes years to build. That moment

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has not happened overnight and does not happened just because

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of one kid, and God bless Jason. But that's a

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culture that builds that. So when I saw that, coach,

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I knew that I wanted to meet you someday. I

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didn't think I would, but here we are to be

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on your show. Thank you, John.

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We're really looking forward to it, and let's get delve

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into the ted lasts, so let them lead. It's a

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book I'd gift, and there's only a few books I

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gift right now. I really enjoyed it immensely. He said

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a lot of things that made a lot of sense

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to me, because obviously I was a long time coach.

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So talk about just start sharing the story. I know

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it's about hockey and I'm a basketball coach, but a

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little bit about the story in just a couple of

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points about how you turn this as you labeled I

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think the worst high school hockey.

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Team sadly accurate at the time. So anyway, yeah, and

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it is a hockey book, but it's not a hockey book.

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And those are pictures of my guys on the wall

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that my parents gave me, and some other hockey paintings

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and so on. But my editor was a late great

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Rick Wolf, just passed away a couple of years ago.

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He did Rich Dad, Poor Dad. He did Jack Welch's

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From the Gut I think about sixty or seventy year

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Times Business bestsellers, the gold standard in the business. And

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he'd been friends for a while since I had done

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Bo's Lasting Lessons with him. That's BeO Schemeckler's last book,

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and that was very gratifying for me. But his mantra

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throughout this is your point is that, damn it, John,

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it's not a hockey book. Hundred of times. He's coached

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a lot of baseball himself, so it's not a hockey

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book in any real sense. That's about leadership. And I'm

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no basketball coach, certainly despite coaching my kid's third grade

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team last year to mix results. But anyway, the team

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I took over Annaberheron River Rats, and I'm not making

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that mascot up. We are the only ones in the country.

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I'm pretty sure in two thousand they were zero twenty

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two and three, and a few non sports fans out there,

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the zero's where the winds go. The ranked is the

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worst team in America. Incredibly, out of twelve hundred and

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fifty six teams. They hire yours truly the worst player

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in school history to post them. That's where the ted

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Lasso part comes in, because this guy's got no business

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being the coach. Basically, I still hold the record for

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the most games coach in a here on uniform eighty

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six with the fewest goals zero. I played forward, by

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the way, it didn't leave a lot to love. Worst

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player in school history, worst team in America. Yeah, this

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should work. What do you do? You get help? And

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Warren Buffett at a great line, if you think of

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the smartest guy in the room, get a better room.

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And it's your job as the head coach not to

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be the smartest guy in the room. It's your job

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of fee out who is and take their advice. In

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my case, that's Al Clark of Culver Academies, Brillian coach.

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He still has the record, I believe, for the most

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wins of any high school coach ony seventeen. He says

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five words today, just like me his big premium speeches.

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This would be a good game to win.

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Yeah.

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Thanks, but whatever your personalities, it's fine as long as

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your word is good. It's what I find his great

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advice to me. You got to make it special to

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play for Huron, and the best way to make it

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special is to make it hard, because the opposite of

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whatever else is telling me. And we're terrified now in business,

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I know you, Jim give a lot of corporate speeches.

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I do too. They are terrified at twenty five year olds.

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They're trying to lower the bar, bean bag chairs and

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gambucha machines and casual fridays in tacco Tuesdays and so on.

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Nope'll you will get people who like those things. That's

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the problem. It works. Tell my heart, the job is.

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If the job's not hard, why are they paying you

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worse hard? That's what the money's for. So you start

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off with that and you keep your expectations high. Second

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step was to build trust with the players. So high

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expectations build trust. Third step was the scariest, and that

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has let them lead. But that's when third year, for example,

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I let them coach an entire game. We had a

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fourteen game winning streak by then, very good for US.

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Two straight losses to our arch rivals, every coach gets paranoid.

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I did too. I let the seniors coach in the

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next game against the ranked team, and I didn't say

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a word the entire night. They picked up the lineup,

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the strategy they changed on the fly in hockey, which

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means while the pucks and play first, center comes off second.

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Said it's got to go out. You got to organize

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all that. I let you guys can handle up. We

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got ten seniors, so they did, and they beat a

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ranked team six nothing. Everything we've got to say in

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that book is simple, and Jim you already know that

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he's not one complicated idea. None of it's easy. That's

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the trick. Don't confuse simple with easy. What's hard about it?

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Every single thing I tell you to do takes courage

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and things like leaving your best player in the parking

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lot because he's two minutes late for the bus. All right,

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every coach stops that bus, but not out Clark, my mentor,

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and not me.

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Discipline, and John, this is one major thing. I think

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a discipline is everywhere, so from sports to real life.

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Discipline plays a major role in leadership. One thing I

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found it very interesting that from reading your book and

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your bio, no wonder you're called ted Lasso of this

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Fiel and one major area of ted Lasso was the

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optimism in his leadership. So how did you keep that

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optimism even when you know that this is the team

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that you were leading? And how important is to be

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optimistic when you're leading?

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A great question. I've been asked hundreds of questions by

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now maybe thousands probably on this book since it came

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out in twenty twenty one. I don't think I've ever

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gotten that one, which is pretty hard to hit him

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where they ain't. Is we really killer? Once said one

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hundred years ago in baseball, you just did. I hadn't

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thought of in those terms, But it is true. If

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I was not optimistic, no one else is going to be.

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So that was true throughout. Sometimes I had to force myself,

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no doubt, to try to find several linings when you

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get slacked thirteen to two or seven to nothing, and

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all that happened that first year, especially how you frame this,

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I'd say a few answers to that one. I always

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focused on behaviors not results. Now we paid attention to results.

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We had fifteen stat lines for every player who played

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that night, and this is pre analytics. We were ahead

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of the game as twenty players. That's three hundred spreadsheet

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boxes we filled in after every game, and there was

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printed and put on the wall before practice the next day,

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and all the kids went right to that wall. They

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all wanted to find out how they did and block shots, hits,

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shots on net, whatever. But I focused on behaviors so

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I could always say. When we got smoked thirteen to

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two by Trenton, the best team in America arguably, I said, hey,

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values of our victories, that's one of the keys. And

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because we define those and we're in control of those,

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we control of our values, control of our behaviors. Every day.

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I don't control the refs and don't control pucks bounce

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funny ways, and so do shots in basketball, goalies do

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funny things, and soda shooters. You don't control any of

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that stuff. You can do everything right and lose entirely

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pop So do I get mad if we lose a

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game like that? No at all, even thirteen to two,

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I said, hey, two guys are here on hockey work hard,

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support your teammates. Did you guys do those two things tonight?

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And I said, yes, we did, Yes, you did, all right,

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And God bless him. They're the best team in the

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state and they beginse thirteen to two, but they quit

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working for ten goals. They quit high five in each

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other after ten goals. You guys kept working the entire game,

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supporting your goalie after all thirteen goals. That's impressive. We

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define ourselves. So you walk out of here with your

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head held high because this was heroic. So one key

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to be an optimistic is you define the terms. All right.

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You framed the argument. That's one thing. Second of all,

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what Herb Brooks, the great Olympic coach from nineteen eighty

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And I know Jim knows that name, and probably you

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guys too. Mircle on ice. That's Herb Brooks C and

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I became friends in the process. Brilliant coach, just brilliant

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that it was not a fluke. Yeah, it's a once

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in a lifetime game. But like that Sunday, it was engineered.

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And I said before one of our big games a

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year later, we're playing Trent again. Now we're much better.

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We're sixteen eight and two we're playing trent in the

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regional finals. And they called up Herban and said, okay,

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and tomorrow night we're playing the Soviets, and I'm pretty

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sure we're the Americans. That's about the odds here, What

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do you got? And I had my schematics out there

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of all the rinks and all the strategy, and first period,

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second period went by shoting the bench. When do we

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start dumping it in all this other hockey terminology, none

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of it, he said, Johnny, with this Minnesota accent. Above all,

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you gotta believe. If you don't believe, nothing good can happen.

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If you do believe, anything can happen. And then he

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chuckled and said, believe me was the architect of the

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greatest upset in the history of sports. And then I

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thought about it. He's right. And just because we work

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hard toport our teammates and believe in ourselves and each other,

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just not guarantee when to beat Trenting. I can absolutely

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one percent arantee you. If you don't work hard, support

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your teammates, and believe in ourselves and each other, we

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don't have a chance. And so John or Jim or

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if you guys buy a lottery ticket. I can't guarantee

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you're gonna win the lottery. The odds are still against them.

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But I can guarantee you what ny percent. You don't

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buy a lottery ticket, you ain't winning the damn lottery.

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In our business. Back to optimism, I hadn't thought of

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in those terms. So now you got me going on this.

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But in our business, what if you're a leader in anything,

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corporation to school, hospital and so on, Your lottery tickets

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are hope, belief, faith, confidence, And no, I'm gonna add optimism,

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and you can buy them first. And if you don't

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buy them, they ain't gonna buy them, because why would

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they if you don't believe, why should they believe? All

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these tickets? And hopefully after a while they start buying

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for them themselves, and then they start buying them for

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each other. And now seniors are buying them for juniors,

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and juniors are buying them for sophomores, and now this

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whole thing's going. That night before that Trenton game, I

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left a locker room to the senior because I always do,

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and I said, seniors, your room after my speech about

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Herb and all that, and I don't know, they said,

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But man in stick steel door, places packed as always,

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Detroit News is there, Detroit Free presses, there is a

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big game. The band is playing allowed it's gonna be

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two thousand people. I could hear these guys yelling to

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that door halfway down the rink. So whatever's gonna happen

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that night? And I told my coaches this, I don't

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know what it's gonna happen to night. No one does.

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I can tell you one thing. Those guys are done

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being scared and they believe, and we'll see what happens next.

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We lost three to two and a nail bier, but

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their fans gave our guys a stand innovation. But the

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point is that's fast. It took two years. I thought

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it could take five. I underestimated the kids. That was

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my ventilation. So belief is if you don't believe, no

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one else is going to find a way to be optimistic.

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And when you need to, you go back to the behaviors.

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Are the behaviors getting better, the behavior getting better, then

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we're gonna get there. And part of it also is

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probably vision that I know we're ultimately and I know

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we're gonna get there, all right, so this is our path.

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Our path is not this. Our path is this setbacks, problems,

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It's all gonna happen. But if you don't hold the

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North Star in your head, no one else is going to.

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Another takeaway from your story is that it did take time.

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And all good things do, all good cultures do take

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time to build. And in this world we often see,

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like in the world of professional sports, a coach wins

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Coach of the Year of the NBA and gets canned,

297
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or a coach loses in the conference finals and gets canned.

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Then business we see the same thing. You're not able

299
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to produce the results in year one and we're moving

300
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on to.

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A new leader.

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So I'm not saying that's always bad because results are important, right,

303
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But what kind of belief does an organization have to

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have in a leader to instill in them that opportunity

305
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in that time to get the ball roll and then

306
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establish that culture.

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My advice from mild mentor both. Shimmeckler, the old Michian

308
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football coach. He hit a shot at the Wisconsin job

309
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before the Michigan job and didn't like the vibe of

310
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the interview, and I thought the whole thing was a

311
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bit of a circus. This would have been nineteen sixty

312
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eight and he left the room, got in a pay phone.

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That'll date me. Hall's The idea is is take my

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name off. Don't take a job if it's a bump

315
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and pay, prestige title, all that stuff. So what if

316
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it's not set up for success or a chance for success,

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don't take it. And I think oftentimes, by the way,

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it's harder, I think in publicly held companies because they

319
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have to give returns every quarter and the stackholders watch this,

320
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and the board watches this and so on. I've seen

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great leaders Mary Barra, General Motors, Bill Ford, Jute Ford,

322
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and Jim Hackett, who endorsed my book, great leaders at

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that level. But I think it's harder for the reason

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you cite. So find yourself a situation where you're going

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to have time to do what needs to be done,

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and without that, it's not going to work. So that's

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one thing. Second of all, if I'm in charge of

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a coach, I'm gonna do the same thing I would

329
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as a coach, which is, are the behaviors getting better

330
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the team listening to this coach. If the coach loses

331
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the locker room. I don't know about you, coach, but

332
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I don't know if I've ever seen anyone get it back.

333
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So do you still have the room? We're in a

334
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ten game losing streak. My first year. I'm telling you

335
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right now, John, that was the best coaching I have

336
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ever done. And it's true because we lose a trend

337
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thirteen to two starts a ten game losing streak. Who

338
00:16:18.000 --> 00:16:20.519
kept on getting close closer to all those teams. No

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one gave up, no one pointed the fingers. What am

340
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I asking for? We're cards for your team as we

341
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did it, and we played trend again and now seven

342
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to one. Okay, that's like twice as good. Right, that's progress.

343
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So you work on the behaviors. But man, the need

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to go that fast, don't fall. If you're doing it right,

345
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it will not happen that fast almost ever. So zone

346
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that out. Be patient. Jackie Robinson gets the major leagues

347
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and goes on a bad time for a hitting drought,

348
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and his coach stayed with him.

349
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Yeah.

350
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So it was all about like process related goals instead

351
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of always having the result related goals.

352
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When your goal setting, and we had goal sets, the

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team picked the goals of the seniors picked the goals.

354
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We had ten goals. Ever, ye, it's in the book.

355
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I would pick twoks to I knew they didn't care

356
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about highest grade point and fewest penalties. That would never

357
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make their list. Yes, and God blossom for it. But

358
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everything else the seniors were in charge of, and they

359
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would have team meetings. They would last two or three

360
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days after practice before they picked the eight they wanted.

361
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They took it very seriously and once they pick those, okay,

362
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these are your goals, all right. And that's a big

363
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difference to me saying you should do this, you should

364
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do that. If I was running in a sales department.

365
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I think it's a big mistake almost every sales department makes.

366
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They give you your quotas, No, have them give you

367
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their quotas, and they will raise the bar higher than

368
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you would surprisingly perhaps, and in the process they feel

369
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far more committed. They own that's your goal, not mine.

370
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So yeah, but still, as far as I'm concerned, I

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watch process, I watch behaviors. First of all.

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Something that you gave me really good clarity, because I

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felt the same way after I read your book about

374
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my program when I was coaching, was that I would program.

375
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Why it was different, he said it was a two

376
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season was we cared deeply about our kids, but it

377
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was very challenging. But we're the only one in our

378
00:18:07.200 --> 00:18:09.519
area that was precis six o'clock in the morning, so

379
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it was not easy to play in our program. But

380
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they did know that we cared about them and we

381
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had very high expectations. So it would just give me

382
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me clarity on that was really good. But I got

383
00:18:19.559 --> 00:18:21.799
to delve in. I've got so many questions, could be

384
00:18:21.839 --> 00:18:25.440
here forever. But because I'm old by people, I'm curious,

385
00:18:25.559 --> 00:18:28.200
what did you learn from bo Schemblocker, because I remember

386
00:18:28.240 --> 00:18:31.440
those days very well with Woody Hayes and Bosh by

387
00:18:31.480 --> 00:18:32.640
Ohio State Michigan.

388
00:18:32.759 --> 00:18:34.079
Can you share a little bit of ball what you

389
00:18:34.160 --> 00:18:36.039
learned from Bull? Sure, I learned a lot of things

390
00:18:36.079 --> 00:18:38.160
from Bow and you are right by the way, and

391
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one of the things that what the book will do,

392
00:18:40.759 --> 00:18:42.359
I'll give you some good ideas that help and some

393
00:18:42.480 --> 00:18:45.720
new ideas perhaps, but well also for people already doing

394
00:18:45.720 --> 00:18:47.240
I think a very good job. They're often knowing who

395
00:18:47.279 --> 00:18:49.200
buy the book, by the way, guys like you who

396
00:18:49.240 --> 00:18:52.440
already did a great job. But it will reinforce why

397
00:18:52.480 --> 00:18:55.599
you're doing what you're doing, and remind you why that works.

398
00:18:55.680 --> 00:18:58.200
Six o'clock in the morning. I love that. Find out

399
00:18:58.240 --> 00:19:00.640
who wants it right away? My classic Mischigan I just

400
00:19:00.680 --> 00:19:03.000
said about eight thirty on Friday mornings because they hate that.

401
00:19:03.319 --> 00:19:05.599
It ruined my morning. But at Room there's two great

402
00:19:06.920 --> 00:19:09.079
He wants to be in this class quickly. And that's

403
00:19:09.079 --> 00:19:11.200
a separating point. You can say that, hey, we do

404
00:19:11.240 --> 00:19:13.119
this and others don't. No one else is going to

405
00:19:13.200 --> 00:19:15.640
us five thirty for this we are who's the point

406
00:19:15.640 --> 00:19:18.000
of pride? I think whatever from Bo is not what

407
00:19:18.039 --> 00:19:21.000
you'd expect. The book is called Bo's Lasting Lessons. It's

408
00:19:21.000 --> 00:19:23.519
still out there, still in print. Warren Buffett endorsed it,

409
00:19:23.559 --> 00:19:25.160
which is the only book he's ever endorsed. I think

410
00:19:25.839 --> 00:19:28.680
for Bow, now for me, trust me, but what you

411
00:19:28.680 --> 00:19:32.680
would expect listen before you lead. Bow's reputation was well earned.

412
00:19:33.440 --> 00:19:36.839
Big temper, throw his heads in the sideline, get penalties

413
00:19:36.880 --> 00:19:39.759
for yelling at RAFs, grab players by the face, mass

414
00:19:39.759 --> 00:19:42.240
to yell at them, including Jim Harbott, future coach of Michigan.

415
00:19:42.240 --> 00:19:44.519
You can't do any of this anymore, of course, but

416
00:19:45.000 --> 00:19:48.960
he was a phenomenal listener. And when I tell people that,

417
00:19:49.000 --> 00:19:51.400
they don't believe it until you talk to his players.

418
00:19:51.880 --> 00:19:54.759
And he had a strict rule ten through twelve Monday

419
00:19:54.759 --> 00:19:57.920
through Friday during game weeks, the coaches go into the

420
00:19:57.960 --> 00:20:00.240
coach's room to go over the game plan, practice plan,

421
00:20:00.319 --> 00:20:03.720
and so on. The doors literally locked. And both said,

422
00:20:03.720 --> 00:20:06.799
if if my boss calls Don Kennam, the great ad

423
00:20:06.880 --> 00:20:09.920
at Michigan, if he calls, take a message, If his boss,

424
00:20:09.960 --> 00:20:13.880
the president of the university calls, take a message, If

425
00:20:13.920 --> 00:20:17.240
the President of the United States, Gerald Ford, a close friend,

426
00:20:17.279 --> 00:20:21.039
if he'd been an MVP at Michigan, bod campaign for him,

427
00:20:21.079 --> 00:20:25.559
and so on, if he calls, take a message. And

428
00:20:25.880 --> 00:20:27.920
I did what you guys are doing on WHOA, I said,

429
00:20:28.000 --> 00:20:30.599
you can't be serious. He goes Bacon. It was my

430
00:20:30.759 --> 00:20:32.880
job to speak to the leader of the free world.

431
00:20:32.960 --> 00:20:37.160
It was my job to beat the Buckeyes. Okay, that

432
00:20:37.319 --> 00:20:39.640
is a focused individual. And I had a chance to

433
00:20:39.680 --> 00:20:42.839
interview Gerald Ford after that, and I couldn't resist bring

434
00:20:42.839 --> 00:20:45.359
this thing up. And he wasn't very happy about this.

435
00:20:45.400 --> 00:20:48.440
I'm pretty sure it was true. Listen, I can get

436
00:20:48.440 --> 00:20:51.039
Bresnif on the phone thirty seconds you can't get a

437
00:20:51.359 --> 00:20:55.079
bunk couch. That seems preposterous, but it's true. But if

438
00:20:55.079 --> 00:20:57.759
you're a third string walked on from Sulin, Ohio who

439
00:20:57.759 --> 00:20:59.920
couldn't sleep the night before, If you're wondering why you

440
00:21:00.119 --> 00:21:01.599
on the team and why you knock yourself out and

441
00:21:01.640 --> 00:21:03.599
do all these things and so on, then you need

442
00:21:03.640 --> 00:21:06.240
to talk to bo Lynn Cook and Mary Passing. His

443
00:21:06.279 --> 00:21:10.720
great secretaries were instructed you don't ask him what it's about.

444
00:21:11.119 --> 00:21:13.599
If it's personal, they won't tell you. You don't tell him

445
00:21:13.640 --> 00:21:14.759
to come back the next day, because you know what,

446
00:21:14.799 --> 00:21:16.519
he couldn't sleep last night. If you tell him to

447
00:21:16.559 --> 00:21:18.720
come back the next day, he ain't coming back. She

448
00:21:18.759 --> 00:21:20.880
ain't coming back. All right, You are to open that

449
00:21:20.960 --> 00:21:24.240
door without any hesitation and tell me that a player's

450
00:21:24.240 --> 00:21:25.799
here to see me. That's all I got to know.

451
00:21:25.839 --> 00:21:27.839
So once I hear the tumbler's turn, I know it's

452
00:21:27.839 --> 00:21:30.039
got to be important. And Jim Hackett was one of

453
00:21:30.079 --> 00:21:33.799
those guys, third streen guy, demo team center. His dad

454
00:21:33.880 --> 00:21:35.599
was an All American Ohio State. His brother I think

455
00:21:35.599 --> 00:21:37.039
it was a hot shot either at Ohio State or no,

456
00:21:37.200 --> 00:21:39.839
no that I am. I can't remember. But anyway, and

457
00:21:40.359 --> 00:21:42.400
Boud come out and he talked to you eye contact

458
00:21:42.480 --> 00:21:45.200
like this, not shoulder surfing. Now we're going to watch,

459
00:21:45.319 --> 00:21:48.079
not fumbling the change in his pockets. Lock in and

460
00:21:48.160 --> 00:21:51.079
after you're done spilling your guts. He would wait ten

461
00:21:51.240 --> 00:21:55.960
seconds before he said anything. And that's genius. And I

462
00:21:56.000 --> 00:21:58.000
had to learn that that was not natural for me

463
00:21:58.039 --> 00:22:01.839
at all. It is so powerful, so simple, so powerful,

464
00:22:01.839 --> 00:22:05.640
and so hard to do. But when I've spilled my guts,

465
00:22:05.640 --> 00:22:08.680
and big tough guy Jim Hackett center on the football team,

466
00:22:09.039 --> 00:22:12.440
he's near tears. Bo waits and says, Jimmy, is that it?

467
00:22:12.559 --> 00:22:14.799
He goes. Yeah, I'd say he goes. First of all,

468
00:22:14.920 --> 00:22:17.839
thank you for coming down here. If he didn't come

469
00:22:17.839 --> 00:22:19.519
down with your problem, I wouldn't know your problem. We

470
00:22:19.599 --> 00:22:22.200
might lose a great man like Jim Haggett. Can't have that.

471
00:22:22.839 --> 00:22:26.880
And great land from Colin Powell. The day that your

472
00:22:26.920 --> 00:22:29.440
people could bring their problems is the day that you

473
00:22:29.480 --> 00:22:32.440
could be in their leader. And when they have a problem,

474
00:22:32.480 --> 00:22:34.200
what do you do? You seek out what the laziest,

475
00:22:34.200 --> 00:22:37.359
stupidest person with no wisdom and no power to help. No,

476
00:22:37.720 --> 00:22:39.799
you see out the opposite. If they have sought you

477
00:22:39.839 --> 00:22:43.000
out with your problem. You've already checked several boxes on

478
00:22:43.039 --> 00:22:46.079
their list. They hold you in very high esteem. That's

479
00:22:46.119 --> 00:22:48.240
the measure. They won't tell you that, but they just

480
00:22:48.279 --> 00:22:50.559
did with their feet. That's why they're knocking on the door,

481
00:22:51.039 --> 00:22:53.119
all right. And I guarantee you when they come to

482
00:22:53.119 --> 00:22:55.599
you their problem, you'll be at the most inconvenient time

483
00:22:55.640 --> 00:22:58.400
of the day. That's it's not scheduled two o'clock. I

484
00:22:58.559 --> 00:23:01.359
hear someone can plain about their job. Nope, not in there.

485
00:23:01.440 --> 00:23:03.160
But you got to find the time. And if you don't,

486
00:23:03.519 --> 00:23:06.759
somebody else will. And when somebody else does, that person

487
00:23:06.799 --> 00:23:09.720
owes that person and not you, So you find the time.

488
00:23:09.839 --> 00:23:12.160
So the biggest thing I learn from bo is how

489
00:23:12.200 --> 00:23:14.160
to lessen John.

490
00:23:14.200 --> 00:23:16.400
You made me feel a little bit better because I

491
00:23:16.519 --> 00:23:20.079
was always a little bit frustrated because everybody calls me

492
00:23:20.200 --> 00:23:24.480
when they have a problem, from colleagues, friends, the persons

493
00:23:24.519 --> 00:23:27.599
who are working with me, the volunteers, and I would say,

494
00:23:27.640 --> 00:23:31.039
why me, why are they always calling me? And I

495
00:23:31.160 --> 00:23:34.519
take time to listen, But sometime it is stressful, like

496
00:23:34.559 --> 00:23:38.400
taking everybody's stress on me and then trying to find solution.

497
00:23:38.559 --> 00:23:41.359
But you made me feel better that they are checking

498
00:23:41.359 --> 00:23:45.079
those lists that I am worthy to listen to their problem.

499
00:23:44.960 --> 00:23:47.359
That is our because you're so good at it, work

500
00:23:47.400 --> 00:23:48.920
gets out and you can hear.

501
00:23:48.799 --> 00:23:52.160
More track cofident One of the questions I have.

502
00:23:52.400 --> 00:23:54.680
We know one are the characteristic of a good leader,

503
00:23:54.759 --> 00:23:58.440
but I have also experienced so many toxic leadership around us.

504
00:23:58.799 --> 00:24:02.039
So from your experiences as a point of view, can

505
00:24:02.119 --> 00:24:06.480
you give us some pointers on how to identify toxic

506
00:24:06.559 --> 00:24:09.119
leader or what not to do as a leader.

507
00:24:09.880 --> 00:24:12.559
How to identify them? Usually after six months and probably

508
00:24:12.559 --> 00:24:15.799
three months, the whole thing feels wrong. It probably feels

509
00:24:15.799 --> 00:24:17.799
wrong for a reason. If you're willing to work hard,

510
00:24:17.839 --> 00:24:19.559
if you're willing to suport your teammates as I say,

511
00:24:19.960 --> 00:24:23.680
and that's not good enough, then something's probably off. I

512
00:24:23.720 --> 00:24:25.599
think this is happening more and more. You have tons

513
00:24:25.640 --> 00:24:28.839
of books on leadership, podcasts is on mine too, yours

514
00:24:28.839 --> 00:24:31.559
two and so on. But I think the CEO culture,

515
00:24:31.720 --> 00:24:35.240
the CEO gets Twitter times what the other person gets,

516
00:24:35.680 --> 00:24:38.519
and get the gold jet and everything else, the little funkyness,

517
00:24:38.559 --> 00:24:40.559
sum earn it and some are great. Yeah, I'm not

518
00:24:40.599 --> 00:24:43.920
saying by any means. I've seen many great CEOs. Most

519
00:24:44.039 --> 00:24:45.640
was up dealt with our great in my opinion. But

520
00:24:45.640 --> 00:24:48.000
you see a lot of crazy ones and division heads

521
00:24:48.000 --> 00:24:50.240
and so on. It boils down to this. I can

522
00:24:50.279 --> 00:24:52.400
walk into a company and within about five ten minutes

523
00:24:52.440 --> 00:24:54.519
figure out I was gonna make it who's not? Pretty quickly?

524
00:24:54.759 --> 00:24:57.599
Then I'm batting about ninety five percent. I don't care

525
00:24:57.599 --> 00:25:00.279
about your resume. I don't care where you want to school,

526
00:25:00.279 --> 00:25:02.359
which your major was, which your great point is we

527
00:25:02.400 --> 00:25:04.440
all get fooled by resumes, we all get full by interviews.

528
00:25:04.519 --> 00:25:07.079
Happens all the time. All right. I asked three questions.

529
00:25:07.359 --> 00:25:08.960
Who are your mentors? Who do you call up when

530
00:25:08.960 --> 00:25:11.799
you got a problem? Who's going to call you right back? Two?

531
00:25:11.880 --> 00:25:14.440
Who are your peers? All right? When you have a problem,

532
00:25:14.599 --> 00:25:16.559
you need to cry on someone shoulder? There you go,

533
00:25:16.839 --> 00:25:21.559
renew you're in apparently? Third? Who is people underneath you

534
00:25:21.519 --> 00:25:23.880
will take a bullet for you? If you transferred, who

535
00:25:23.920 --> 00:25:25.720
comes with you? And if you don't have answers to

536
00:25:25.759 --> 00:25:27.799
those questions, you're going to go down hard and fast

537
00:25:28.240 --> 00:25:30.759
because you have no allies left to take to break

538
00:25:30.759 --> 00:25:33.599
the fall. The person's going to fail when they become

539
00:25:33.599 --> 00:25:36.559
the leaders. Oh wow, And Abraham Lincoln said it, and

540
00:25:36.599 --> 00:25:38.799
it's brilliant. If you want to test a person's character,

541
00:25:39.279 --> 00:25:41.759
don't give them adversity. Most of us can handle that. Frankly,

542
00:25:42.160 --> 00:25:45.920
give them power because most of us can't. I mean,

543
00:25:45.920 --> 00:25:48.480
your power is almost absolute. Do you abuse it? Right now?

544
00:25:48.519 --> 00:25:50.200
I'm in charge, I have to know all the answers.

545
00:25:50.240 --> 00:25:53.079
I can show no weakness. I don't take suggestions. I

546
00:25:53.119 --> 00:25:56.039
don't take blame. I do take credit. I don't give credit.

547
00:25:56.480 --> 00:25:59.279
All right, there's your very quick short list of somebody

548
00:25:59.279 --> 00:26:02.279
you do not want to work for. Forty forty five fifty.

549
00:26:02.480 --> 00:26:05.160
They're probably not gonna change. You can change your leadership style,

550
00:26:05.599 --> 00:26:07.519
and we all work on this with people, and I've

551
00:26:07.519 --> 00:26:10.920
seen great progress. I can't change your character. I can't

552
00:26:10.960 --> 00:26:14.319
change your personality very much. I can change your approach

553
00:26:14.359 --> 00:26:17.839
to things, but not that. And watch out for clinical narcissism.

554
00:26:17.839 --> 00:26:20.119
I've run into that more than I care to. He'p

555
00:26:20.160 --> 00:26:22.880
always confused that with a big ego. Look, you give me

556
00:26:22.960 --> 00:26:25.160
a leader. At some point, you need a healthy ego,

557
00:26:25.200 --> 00:26:28.480
I would say. And the healthy ego means when I speak,

558
00:26:28.519 --> 00:26:30.680
I expect you to listen. It means that I can

559
00:26:30.720 --> 00:26:32.640
take the blame when we lose. I'm strong enough for that.

560
00:26:33.079 --> 00:26:34.519
And I can give away the credit when we win.

561
00:26:34.599 --> 00:26:37.079
I'm strong enough for that. Also, I can take your suggestions.

562
00:26:37.279 --> 00:26:40.279
I can listen to your complaints. Some strong enough, all right.

563
00:26:40.279 --> 00:26:42.759
A narcissist is the opposite. It's not some shade of

564
00:26:43.359 --> 00:26:46.480
egos the opposite. That guy is thin skinned, all right.

565
00:26:46.599 --> 00:26:49.240
He can't take blame. He takes all the credit. He

566
00:26:49.279 --> 00:26:50.680
has a show off all the time. He's got to

567
00:26:50.680 --> 00:26:52.440
be the press conference. It's got to be in the

568
00:26:52.440 --> 00:26:54.279
first row of the team photo. By the way, alway,

569
00:26:54.279 --> 00:26:55.359
look at those by the way. When I see a

570
00:26:55.400 --> 00:26:57.960
coach in the first row, I don't know, and I

571
00:26:58.000 --> 00:27:00.799
know I'm not seen Jim's team photos. I know he's

572
00:27:00.799 --> 00:27:02.559
not in the front row. Well, you're the one holding

573
00:27:02.599 --> 00:27:05.400
the basketball. And I knew that about him already, without

574
00:27:05.440 --> 00:27:08.200
knowing that about him. That's how you identify it. And

575
00:27:08.519 --> 00:27:10.000
that guy you're not going to change. You have to

576
00:27:10.039 --> 00:27:12.559
get out, I swear to God, because that personality is

577
00:27:12.599 --> 00:27:14.720
not going to change. If someone is struggling to become

578
00:27:14.720 --> 00:27:17.119
a leader, that person may well grow into the job.

579
00:27:17.279 --> 00:27:20.519
That person that asks for help, Warren Buffett says, get help.

580
00:27:20.680 --> 00:27:22.599
Then there you go. That guy. You can work for

581
00:27:22.640 --> 00:27:25.440
that person. You can work for. It's not a show

582
00:27:25.440 --> 00:27:28.200
of strength. It's not again, you don't have to be

583
00:27:28.200 --> 00:27:29.960
the smartest guy in the room. You got to find

584
00:27:29.960 --> 00:27:33.000
out who is a big difference and leading that way

585
00:27:33.200 --> 00:27:34.519
is very effective.

586
00:27:35.400 --> 00:27:38.599
The sense of insecurity, I think that is one of

587
00:27:38.640 --> 00:27:42.279
the biggest mistake the leaders often are doing and all

588
00:27:42.359 --> 00:27:47.000
their actions are coming from that sense of insecurity. And

589
00:27:47.079 --> 00:27:50.279
the picture. The picture thing that you talked about our

590
00:27:50.480 --> 00:27:55.359
under nineteen women's soccer team when they won the Asian Championship.

591
00:27:55.799 --> 00:28:00.720
In the photo it was the coach, then it was sponsors.

592
00:28:00.759 --> 00:28:02.839
They were in the first role and the players were

593
00:28:02.880 --> 00:28:06.079
in the back and they got a big hit. Everybody

594
00:28:06.119 --> 00:28:09.480
criticized it, like the players. It was the girls who won,

595
00:28:10.440 --> 00:28:13.400
not you guys. So it meets a lot.

596
00:28:13.519 --> 00:28:17.519
Yeah, the Bangladeshi women's soccer team, the amber here in

597
00:28:17.599 --> 00:28:22.000
high school boys icebockey team. It's the same stuff exceptly

598
00:28:22.039 --> 00:28:23.839
the same stuff. And I'm glad they got hammered for that.

599
00:28:23.839 --> 00:28:26.119
They should have got hammred for that. Our joke on

600
00:28:26.200 --> 00:28:28.480
game matches, Hey, on game metes, we wear the coaches

601
00:28:28.480 --> 00:28:33.440
wear shoes, You wear skates all the night. You get

602
00:28:33.440 --> 00:28:35.279
the trophy. We don't grab the Trophy either.

603
00:28:36.000 --> 00:28:38.359
Yeah, I knew you got another project coming out because

604
00:28:38.440 --> 00:28:41.119
this is released here in September, So talk a little

605
00:28:41.119 --> 00:28:43.000
bit about what we can expect from you next month.

606
00:28:43.160 --> 00:28:45.799
Sure, this one is. Here's the advance copy of will

607
00:28:45.799 --> 00:28:48.799
be hardcovering the real Thing, The Gails of November, The

608
00:28:48.880 --> 00:28:50.880
untold story of the Eed Memphis Gerald, the ship that

609
00:28:50.920 --> 00:28:54.039
went down nineteen seventy five, immortalized by the Gordon Lightfoot

610
00:28:54.119 --> 00:28:56.680
song The Wreck of the mph Gerald of course, which

611
00:28:56.759 --> 00:28:59.519
was the number two hit of seventy six, comes out

612
00:28:59.519 --> 00:29:02.839
of as you said, from WW Norton, they did a

613
00:29:02.880 --> 00:29:06.839
perfect storm. They also have Michael Lewis, a great leadership consultant.

614
00:29:06.880 --> 00:29:09.119
In my opinion, he's not trying to write about leadership,

615
00:29:09.119 --> 00:29:11.160
but he is. That's how it works, moneyball and all

616
00:29:11.160 --> 00:29:13.319
the rest. So this book comes out then, and that

617
00:29:13.359 --> 00:29:16.240
we're planning a big national tour. We're getting our first

618
00:29:16.279 --> 00:29:18.599
reviews now. Kirkus gave us a start review at his

619
00:29:18.640 --> 00:29:20.680
top ten percent, and I'm going to print a ton

620
00:29:20.680 --> 00:29:23.200
of these things, a record number for me. So hopefully

621
00:29:23.160 --> 00:29:25.200
you guys get it as not written as a leadership book,

622
00:29:25.240 --> 00:29:27.599
but you're gonna see a lot of leadership lessons in there.

623
00:29:28.039 --> 00:29:29.920
The captain of the ship actually was a great leader.

624
00:29:30.200 --> 00:29:32.960
There's some blind spots that night, unfortunately, but the guys

625
00:29:32.960 --> 00:29:35.279
loved him, and one of the blind spots might have

626
00:29:35.359 --> 00:29:37.960
been they loved him so much and they respected him

627
00:29:37.960 --> 00:29:39.880
so much. I'm not sure if they were able to

628
00:29:39.920 --> 00:29:42.680
give him bad news. So that can be a blind

629
00:29:42.680 --> 00:29:45.680
spot there as well. Make sure people feel comfortable telling

630
00:29:45.720 --> 00:29:46.880
you what you don't want to hear.

631
00:29:47.680 --> 00:29:50.599
What I felt like I became a better leader is

632
00:29:50.640 --> 00:29:53.799
when that I really gained trust for my staff. And

633
00:29:53.839 --> 00:29:57.480
it's funny because coaching in high school, often people don't

634
00:29:57.519 --> 00:30:00.599
come to you initially. It's to your assistant coach, and

635
00:30:00.640 --> 00:30:04.960
if you don't have that relationship, and almost every day

636
00:30:05.000 --> 00:30:07.960
I was getting some bad news from my best assistant,

637
00:30:08.440 --> 00:30:11.000
but so helpful because you're right, if you don't get

638
00:30:11.039 --> 00:30:14.160
that information, you don't know when you made a great

639
00:30:14.160 --> 00:30:17.400
point of bulls humblocker that he wanted to hear about problems.

640
00:30:17.559 --> 00:30:20.119
Because he's the chief, lem's out right, he's got to

641
00:30:20.160 --> 00:30:22.599
be able to help people do that. So I'm curious,

642
00:30:23.400 --> 00:30:26.200
what would you recommend to a young leader that gets

643
00:30:26.240 --> 00:30:28.920
the opportunity. Certainly in sports we do we get to

644
00:30:28.920 --> 00:30:31.799
pick the people on our team, and in some situations

645
00:30:31.799 --> 00:30:33.839
of business, you do get to pick at least some

646
00:30:33.960 --> 00:30:37.160
people on your team. What advice do you give on

647
00:30:37.240 --> 00:30:39.359
how to pick the right people for your team? And

648
00:30:39.400 --> 00:30:40.920
you know what, when I throw out one thing, I'm

649
00:30:40.920 --> 00:30:43.960
not looking for four foot two basketball players.

650
00:30:43.680 --> 00:30:45.519
All right, go ahead?

651
00:30:46.079 --> 00:30:49.640
Yeah, yeah, but I've always said that it usually it

652
00:30:49.680 --> 00:30:52.640
was better when I'm about five ten, when I was

653
00:30:52.680 --> 00:30:55.559
looking up when they were in a thirty second title.

654
00:30:55.920 --> 00:30:58.200
Supposed if I'm looking down, that's probably not a good

655
00:30:58.240 --> 00:31:01.680
signs Jack, not Jay anyway. Yeah, at that time, you

656
00:31:01.759 --> 00:31:04.160
just followed. Although he's got it. He grew right past me.

657
00:31:04.240 --> 00:31:05.279
He's six too. Now.

658
00:31:05.519 --> 00:31:07.279
Yeah, I'll tell me. He still inspires me. I still

659
00:31:07.480 --> 00:31:09.960
play that back all the time. That's too inspiring. Assistant

660
00:31:09.960 --> 00:31:14.559
coaches one very simple point. Week leaders higher week assistance

661
00:31:15.200 --> 00:31:18.079
and strong leaders hire strong ones. I can usually tell

662
00:31:18.440 --> 00:31:20.680
before I meet the top leader how strong he or

663
00:31:20.759 --> 00:31:22.960
she is by looking at their people, and if they're

664
00:31:23.079 --> 00:31:26.880
yes men, yes women, and we can follow along and

665
00:31:26.960 --> 00:31:29.759
yes ma'am, yes sir, and okay, I know what you're getting. No,

666
00:31:29.960 --> 00:31:32.160
you want to hire the best possible people you can get.

667
00:31:32.640 --> 00:31:34.559
My goal on the here On hockey team was to

668
00:31:34.599 --> 00:31:36.799
be the dumbest guy in the coaches room, and I

669
00:31:37.200 --> 00:31:41.160
greatly exceed him expectations. I had Rob Brown, who played

670
00:31:41.160 --> 00:31:42.880
professionally in Sweden. I had guys who played at the

671
00:31:42.920 --> 00:31:45.480
University of Michigan, which I was never close to, some

672
00:31:45.519 --> 00:31:47.480
of the best defensemen in town. This kind of stuff,

673
00:31:48.000 --> 00:31:51.000
and Urban Meyer, the great Ohio state coach, gave me

674
00:31:51.039 --> 00:31:53.160
a great aligne. If I ask you a question, especially

675
00:31:53.200 --> 00:31:56.279
between periods, zam Bunny's on the ice. You guys got halftime.

676
00:31:56.599 --> 00:31:59.720
I got between periods, got about ten minutes. We shut

677
00:31:59.720 --> 00:32:01.279
the door, we're in the coaches room. I'll ask you

678
00:32:01.279 --> 00:32:03.799
a question. Don't answer my question with a question. We

679
00:32:03.839 --> 00:32:06.720
don't have time for it. Give me your opinion and

680
00:32:06.799 --> 00:32:10.039
back to bow. One of his great lines is, if

681
00:32:10.079 --> 00:32:12.599
you had a better idea to win the game on Saturday,

682
00:32:12.640 --> 00:32:17.200
don't tell me on Sunday. That's my advice. Here's the

683
00:32:17.240 --> 00:32:21.680
caveat on one condition that once we're done talking here

684
00:32:21.799 --> 00:32:24.039
and the door opens up when we walk out, I

685
00:32:24.079 --> 00:32:26.519
am the head coach of this team. And if you've

686
00:32:26.519 --> 00:32:28.880
got a problem with anything I'm doing, and you will's

687
00:32:28.920 --> 00:32:31.279
that's gonna happen. You bring it, not to the players,

688
00:32:31.279 --> 00:32:33.559
and not to the parents, and not to the Annaburnews,

689
00:32:33.559 --> 00:32:35.839
and not to our friends at Fraser's Pub. Bring it

690
00:32:35.880 --> 00:32:39.359
to me directly, and we handle it. And likewise the

691
00:32:39.359 --> 00:32:41.519
funnel from the kids. I had a five or six

692
00:32:41.519 --> 00:32:43.319
system coaches, which is three or four more than you're

693
00:32:43.359 --> 00:32:45.519
allowed on the bench, and they're all none of them

694
00:32:45.519 --> 00:32:48.480
got paid. Just wonder the people. Mike Lappert's lapper was

695
00:32:48.480 --> 00:32:50.799
the star of our team. The book is dedicated to him.

696
00:32:51.039 --> 00:32:53.440
A lot of reasonies. But man, I got somebody. They're

697
00:32:53.480 --> 00:32:55.640
far more comfortable talking to a lot of assistant coaches

698
00:32:55.920 --> 00:32:58.200
than they were to meet. And almost every asistant coach

699
00:32:58.240 --> 00:33:00.720
had three or four favorites in the team, and the

700
00:33:00.759 --> 00:33:05.759
player's favorite coaches was not usually me any fine, but

701
00:33:05.880 --> 00:33:08.759
I get things from them I would never get otherwise.

702
00:33:09.119 --> 00:33:12.039
And if that pipeline is shut down, I can't help

703
00:33:12.039 --> 00:33:14.319
that kid. I'm yelling at a kid who's having a

704
00:33:14.319 --> 00:33:17.200
bad day. Does not need me yelling at them, all right,

705
00:33:17.279 --> 00:33:20.160
So that's what happens when you don't have the information.

706
00:33:20.720 --> 00:33:27.039
So that man old cliche communication, a ton of funnel

707
00:33:27.039 --> 00:33:29.279
back and forth gott to be you know what, I.

708
00:33:29.599 --> 00:33:31.880
Dell thean one least thing. How about as far as

709
00:33:31.920 --> 00:33:33.839
picking the right players on your team.

710
00:33:34.039 --> 00:33:37.240
Now, look, I'm not running a charity, as we say,

711
00:33:37.799 --> 00:33:40.759
I'm not running Disney World either, So yes, talent is

712
00:33:41.319 --> 00:33:43.559
one of the first things we look at, obviously, but

713
00:33:43.759 --> 00:33:46.400
two points on that one. If you are talent but

714
00:33:46.519 --> 00:33:51.000
not character. I cut some kids who were definitely good

715
00:33:51.039 --> 00:33:52.839
enough to be on the team. Do I need that

716
00:33:52.920 --> 00:33:55.680
cancer in my locker room? Not worth it? So that

717
00:33:55.759 --> 00:33:58.799
did happen, sometimes, not too often. Usually the kid like that.

718
00:33:59.160 --> 00:34:01.920
It's only ten percent were projects. Kids were town but

719
00:34:02.039 --> 00:34:04.480
not the right attitude. The coach of the team was

720
00:34:04.519 --> 00:34:06.640
strong enough I could get them going the right way.

721
00:34:06.759 --> 00:34:10.079
If I can't, then okay this season, you won't be

722
00:34:10.119 --> 00:34:13.079
your next season. Chances are that's your decision. But I

723
00:34:13.119 --> 00:34:15.280
also took a couple guys, more than a couple who

724
00:34:15.320 --> 00:34:18.239
were borderline, and that might be generous a talent front,

725
00:34:18.559 --> 00:34:20.719
but I just liked it so much that I thought,

726
00:34:20.800 --> 00:34:22.800
I want that attitude in my locker room. And one

727
00:34:22.840 --> 00:34:25.440
of the great examples of that is Nate Raikuig And

728
00:34:25.440 --> 00:34:26.840
don't worry, we can go a little bit past our

729
00:34:26.880 --> 00:34:30.480
time here. That to nata Ekuige was our fifth string goalie.

730
00:34:30.679 --> 00:34:32.400
I could get your attention because you only take three.

731
00:34:33.400 --> 00:34:34.960
But I think what Ny would do. He came out

732
00:34:35.000 --> 00:34:37.320
of my first year coaching. He's a sophomore at that time.

733
00:34:37.320 --> 00:34:38.800
He's tall, and he's skinny, and he's weak, and he

734
00:34:38.880 --> 00:34:40.960
slow and as he joked for the book, to inter

735
00:34:41.000 --> 00:34:43.039
read all the players for the book, which made it

736
00:34:43.079 --> 00:34:45.800
a pretty rich experience for the reader too. I think,

737
00:34:45.920 --> 00:34:48.400
because you're getting these kids in their thirties now, they

738
00:34:48.440 --> 00:34:51.360
have got perspective. And he said, let's face a coach,

739
00:34:51.719 --> 00:34:54.239
I could not even stop a beach ball. How I

740
00:34:54.320 --> 00:34:56.960
go for a goalie. I'll tell you what he did.

741
00:34:57.119 --> 00:34:59.920
We'd finish our god awful relays, and these are brutal.

742
00:35:00.000 --> 00:35:01.199
I did him to we all threw up in the

743
00:35:01.199 --> 00:35:03.840
track at some point, a lot of hard work. He'd

744
00:35:03.880 --> 00:35:06.239
grab a water bottle. When we're all dying of thirst,

745
00:35:06.519 --> 00:35:08.960
he'd grab a water bottle and he wouldn't drink from it.

746
00:35:09.280 --> 00:35:11.280
He'd pass it to the next guy who needed it more.

747
00:35:12.039 --> 00:35:14.159
Who does that? I wouldn't do that as a high

748
00:35:14.159 --> 00:35:15.960
school kid. I don't think I did as a coach. Frankly,

749
00:35:16.039 --> 00:35:18.079
shame on me. Although I think he did pass out some.

750
00:35:18.199 --> 00:35:20.559
But I'm no Nate. I thought I saw that that

751
00:35:20.679 --> 00:35:24.360
is exceptional, that's extremely unusual. Let's find a way to

752
00:35:24.360 --> 00:35:26.840
get that guy in. And got some lucky breaks. I

753
00:35:26.840 --> 00:35:29.440
guess one of them was the senior goalie his ankle broke,

754
00:35:29.719 --> 00:35:31.639
but one of them before the seasons, there's one spot

755
00:35:31.679 --> 00:35:33.760
well have available for a couple months. We found a

756
00:35:33.760 --> 00:35:35.760
way to split time with the four string guy. We

757
00:35:35.800 --> 00:35:38.239
got them both in, and then second year he's the

758
00:35:38.239 --> 00:35:40.599
thirst string goalie, and I didn't see a whole lot

759
00:35:40.599 --> 00:35:42.559
of progress. But we're giving those same amount of attention

760
00:35:43.039 --> 00:35:45.159
that we're given the starters, same amount of shots, same

761
00:35:45.159 --> 00:35:48.239
amount of coaching, same amount of encouragement, all these things.

762
00:35:48.719 --> 00:35:51.320
And the two goes ahead were very good goalies and

763
00:35:51.360 --> 00:35:53.360
good guys. I like them both very much. One's a

764
00:35:53.360 --> 00:35:56.039
hot shot doctor now done very well. But they didn't

765
00:35:56.079 --> 00:35:58.280
like each other at the breast they're down. It's like

766
00:35:58.280 --> 00:36:02.480
a quarterback controversy in football. This is not healthy. And

767
00:36:02.519 --> 00:36:04.639
I can't get mad at them for letting the puck in,

768
00:36:05.000 --> 00:36:07.079
but I can get mad at them for not supporting

769
00:36:07.079 --> 00:36:09.360
their teammates. So I put Nate in against one of

770
00:36:09.440 --> 00:36:11.559
our best opponents. We've never beaten them in twenty years.

771
00:36:11.920 --> 00:36:14.320
I had twelve the defensemen in the coach's room. I

772
00:36:14.320 --> 00:36:16.280
shut the door. I said, you guys love Nate, right,

773
00:36:16.360 --> 00:36:18.800
Oh god, we love Nate. So I'm starting them tonight.

774
00:36:19.760 --> 00:36:21.880
We love Nate. How much do you love Nate? Yeah?

775
00:36:22.639 --> 00:36:25.559
All right? Act as look pulled the goalie block every shot,

776
00:36:25.599 --> 00:36:27.880
two guys back all night long. I don't care we

777
00:36:27.920 --> 00:36:29.960
score a goal. Nate's got to survive this night. And

778
00:36:29.960 --> 00:36:33.119
it could be ten nothing, twelve nothing, final score here

779
00:36:33.159 --> 00:36:35.519
on five gross points South, one of the best teams

780
00:36:35.559 --> 00:36:38.039
in the state. Three and I have no idea. What

781
00:36:38.079 --> 00:36:41.719
the hell happened that night? Yeah, the coach was very generous.

782
00:36:41.719 --> 00:36:44.039
He said, I see a coach with a clear system,

783
00:36:44.280 --> 00:36:46.800
and his players have bought into a system. You see

784
00:36:46.800 --> 00:36:49.840
a lucky ass coach. Is what you do. We're in

785
00:36:49.880 --> 00:36:52.679
my French But what happened and the lesson there is

786
00:36:52.760 --> 00:36:55.440
water all the plants and watch who grows. You don't

787
00:36:55.480 --> 00:36:58.719
know who's gonna grow, how fast, how far. But I

788
00:36:58.760 --> 00:37:01.320
do know if you don't water them, then gonna grow

789
00:37:01.400 --> 00:37:05.119
your job. Get out of the prediction business. We do

790
00:37:05.159 --> 00:37:07.599
this way too much in leadership. This guy's gonna make it.

791
00:37:07.639 --> 00:37:10.320
This guy's nut. How do you know, j Mac, is

792
00:37:10.320 --> 00:37:13.239
that John call them Jason McIlwain, tell me you predicted

793
00:37:13.280 --> 00:37:15.599
that night he said, this guy's gonna can a bunch

794
00:37:15.599 --> 00:37:17.239
of them. Three of the place's gonna go nuts, and

795
00:37:17.239 --> 00:37:19.559
you're gonna be a national TV year round. If you

796
00:37:19.639 --> 00:37:21.079
told me that before the game, I'd say, you, sir,

797
00:37:21.159 --> 00:37:24.199
are insane. Why is he even gonna get into the game.

798
00:37:24.280 --> 00:37:27.800
Let's back that one up, So water up the plants.

799
00:37:27.840 --> 00:37:30.599
But McElwain knew going into that game, Coach, that you

800
00:37:30.679 --> 00:37:33.840
had his back. He knew that his teammates had his back.

801
00:37:34.119 --> 00:37:36.559
He felt loved, he felt supported. I'm gonna get a

802
00:37:36.599 --> 00:37:40.239
choked U right now telling your story, right, felt love, supported,

803
00:37:40.280 --> 00:37:43.119
The crowd is on his side. He felt all of that.

804
00:37:43.320 --> 00:37:46.320
Without that going in is not gonna work. So give

805
00:37:46.360 --> 00:37:48.840
them all that's watering the plants and then see what

806
00:37:48.920 --> 00:37:52.480
happens and my players chapter six, let them surprise you.

807
00:37:52.840 --> 00:37:54.800
My player surprised me all the time, and I know

808
00:37:54.840 --> 00:37:56.920
yours did too, and you don't see it coming. But

809
00:37:56.960 --> 00:38:00.639
that's the happy accidents you get in a prier culture.

810
00:38:01.320 --> 00:38:04.239
John, just say one thing, is that he said some

811
00:38:04.239 --> 00:38:07.559
powerful things. There is that when I talked to people

812
00:38:09.239 --> 00:38:13.000
because I hit other team managers. But Resa, I gave

813
00:38:13.079 --> 00:38:15.119
him a shot. And first of all, I twito for

814
00:38:15.199 --> 00:38:17.880
the team three consecutives. I never had a kid do

815
00:38:17.960 --> 00:38:20.559
that before they did make the team. Number two is

816
00:38:20.960 --> 00:38:24.079
he did everything for us. He always came to this

817
00:38:24.119 --> 00:38:28.079
early heath, so he deserved an opportunity. The reason I

818
00:38:28.119 --> 00:38:30.400
gave him a chance is because he deserved it.

819
00:38:30.599 --> 00:38:32.199
Guy in our team, Rahp Demiro, came out for the

820
00:38:32.199 --> 00:38:34.599
team three times. He was overweight. I cut him the

821
00:38:34.639 --> 00:38:38.119
first year, good player, but overweight. Second year came to

822
00:38:38.159 --> 00:38:40.760
all the workouts, same thing. I come him again thirty years,

823
00:38:40.800 --> 00:38:43.159
about to come again. And he came into my office

824
00:38:43.159 --> 00:38:46.480
with a sheet typed out, computerized and so on. And

825
00:38:46.519 --> 00:38:48.159
I said, what's this? Because you don't walk into my

826
00:38:48.239 --> 00:38:51.519
office during tryouts. I don't know any of you. No

827
00:38:51.559 --> 00:38:53.320
one's in his locker room, no one's in the spot yet,

828
00:38:53.639 --> 00:38:56.719
et cetera. His plan for losing weight and it says

829
00:38:56.920 --> 00:38:59.440
and all the usual stuff. And number six was file

830
00:38:59.559 --> 00:39:02.159
the five piece and I said, okay, I'll bite. What

831
00:39:02.239 --> 00:39:05.920
are the five piece? His poor preparation of his poor performance. Okay,

832
00:39:06.000 --> 00:39:08.800
let's prepare. I laughed at that one, thinking to myself,

833
00:39:08.880 --> 00:39:11.000
kidd has made the team and I didn't say it then,

834
00:39:11.159 --> 00:39:13.480
and I made the team. He end up losing eighty pounds.

835
00:39:13.519 --> 00:39:15.119
He scored at one of our worst one of our

836
00:39:15.119 --> 00:39:17.920
toughest opponents, scored the winning goal as our arch rival.

837
00:39:18.280 --> 00:39:20.880
All this stuff, But you know what, you came a

838
00:39:20.920 --> 00:39:23.239
team three times. You had this sheet. You're dead serious.

839
00:39:23.639 --> 00:39:26.440
That's how you got the shot. That's great and I

840
00:39:26.480 --> 00:39:29.159
did not know that about macaloy in the background. That's

841
00:39:29.159 --> 00:39:29.679
really cool.

842
00:39:30.000 --> 00:39:32.840
So one of my biggest takeaways here, and something I'm

843
00:39:32.880 --> 00:39:35.880
still trying to wrap my head around, is that you John,

844
00:39:35.920 --> 00:39:39.400
you Bacon, got advice from urban Meyer and you actually

845
00:39:39.440 --> 00:39:42.199
took n Well, what is this? Is this the leadership

846
00:39:42.280 --> 00:39:44.840
lesson too? About respect for your rivals?

847
00:39:45.320 --> 00:39:47.440
Yeah? Mind, I'm not the Misigan football coach that might

848
00:39:47.440 --> 00:39:51.679
have changed his attitude towards me. That was book called

849
00:39:51.719 --> 00:39:54.400
Fourth and Long is the bestseller on college football. Urban

850
00:39:54.480 --> 00:39:56.400
Meyer was great with me and Misikon fans hated when

851
00:39:56.440 --> 00:39:58.960
I say that, but he was and he is utterly straightforward,

852
00:39:59.000 --> 00:40:00.440
and I liked that. What do you want to hear it?

853
00:40:00.480 --> 00:40:03.199
Or not. Boy, he was direct and I admired that too.

854
00:40:03.360 --> 00:40:07.840
Look another mistake leaders make your predecessor, you shut out.

855
00:40:08.280 --> 00:40:10.559
That happens all the time. It's the eighty ninety percent,

856
00:40:10.719 --> 00:40:13.639
I think, by my estimation. Why wouldn't you talk to

857
00:40:13.679 --> 00:40:17.360
the person who had the job before you? For me?

858
00:40:17.400 --> 00:40:19.280
It was there twenty two and three, and as I

859
00:40:19.320 --> 00:40:21.360
said in the book, did not go to the senior

860
00:40:21.400 --> 00:40:23.719
banquet the year before salt in a lot of tears

861
00:40:23.719 --> 00:40:26.039
and so on. So what he had done the job

862
00:40:26.119 --> 00:40:27.840
for ten years, He knew things that I didn't know

863
00:40:27.880 --> 00:40:30.400
about the players I was going to coach. We were friends,

864
00:40:30.400 --> 00:40:33.840
We still are friends. Somebody I do respect absolutely. Why

865
00:40:33.880 --> 00:40:35.519
not sit down in three or four hours, a few

866
00:40:35.519 --> 00:40:38.400
beers and a lot of notes. I can agree or disagree,

867
00:40:38.519 --> 00:40:40.159
doesn't matter. I don't have to do what he says,

868
00:40:40.440 --> 00:40:44.719
all right, But why wouldn't you find out so urban Meyer? Heck, hey,

869
00:40:44.719 --> 00:40:47.079
guys had big trunky rings. Why wouldn't I ask him

870
00:40:47.320 --> 00:40:50.280
what he thought about that? Get help, get help, and

871
00:40:50.360 --> 00:40:52.199
especially from the people who came before you, and show

872
00:40:52.239 --> 00:40:56.079
respect for your history. I'm amazed, very rare. Does any

873
00:40:56.239 --> 00:40:58.159
coach ever reached out to me? Dude? I got a book.

874
00:41:00.079 --> 00:41:01.639
I'll help you e for free. I charge people for

875
00:41:01.679 --> 00:41:05.159
this stuff. But and that's fine, that's their decision. I'm

876
00:41:05.199 --> 00:41:06.760
not gonna have. It's got to be a one way street.

877
00:41:07.079 --> 00:41:09.559
You can't impose it on them. But I'm amazed how

878
00:41:09.639 --> 00:41:13.280
rarely leaders reach out for help from people who are

879
00:41:13.360 --> 00:41:15.159
eager to give it. And you don't have to take

880
00:41:15.199 --> 00:41:17.039
their advice. But why not hear it?

881
00:41:18.440 --> 00:41:22.079
Real quick story, So, my first coaching job at varsity level,

882
00:41:22.239 --> 00:41:25.239
we won one game coaching it asked me not to

883
00:41:25.280 --> 00:41:27.719
come back. But my second job, it was a small school.

884
00:41:27.719 --> 00:41:30.960
I was from a big town and when I took over,

885
00:41:31.440 --> 00:41:33.760
there was one coach in the league and all the

886
00:41:33.920 --> 00:41:36.960
coaches in the league hated him because won all the time.

887
00:41:37.400 --> 00:41:40.360
I became his best friend because I was like, this guy,

888
00:41:40.920 --> 00:41:44.239
he's doing that fight out and he gave me so

889
00:41:44.400 --> 00:41:48.079
much wisdom. But you are so right afraid to reach out.

890
00:41:48.159 --> 00:41:50.679
And you know what, for most I think good leaders,

891
00:41:51.039 --> 00:41:53.239
they feel like that's a compliment to be asked.

892
00:41:53.239 --> 00:41:57.760
Absolutely, Gina Orion. Of course, the imagine you're a Yukon coach,

893
00:41:57.960 --> 00:41:59.719
one of the greatest coaches of all time any sport,

894
00:42:00.159 --> 00:42:02.599
right him Barnjerico is the women's coach here at Michigan.

895
00:42:02.639 --> 00:42:05.719
She was at Saint John's and they finally beat Yukon

896
00:42:05.840 --> 00:42:09.840
in a game. On the bus home, Gina Oreano calls

897
00:42:09.920 --> 00:42:12.800
up her to congratulate her on the win and how

898
00:42:12.800 --> 00:42:14.360
it's going to be a helpful to their program and

899
00:42:14.400 --> 00:42:17.039
helpful to the league. I don't know if I'm pulling

900
00:42:17.039 --> 00:42:20.480
that one off. I'm looking my orlans probably, but great

901
00:42:20.639 --> 00:42:23.880
leaders respond, and you know why everyone else is afraid

902
00:42:23.880 --> 00:42:25.880
of this guy? Why not find out? When we had

903
00:42:25.880 --> 00:42:28.000
a chance at a state title my third year, I

904
00:42:28.039 --> 00:42:31.679
reached out to Brian Townsend. He's the boys basketball coach

905
00:42:31.719 --> 00:42:34.519
at Edburgh Pioneer. With Levelle Blanchard and up being a

906
00:42:34.519 --> 00:42:36.559
big star. They wanted to state title a couple of

907
00:42:36.599 --> 00:42:38.960
years earlier. I said, Okay, it's only six games to

908
00:42:39.039 --> 00:42:41.280
a state tournament. Walk me through it. What do I

909
00:42:41.320 --> 00:42:44.360
focus on? He gives me great advice. It's basketball versus hockey.

910
00:42:44.760 --> 00:42:46.760
It's the same stuff. You want to stay title and

911
00:42:46.800 --> 00:42:49.679
I haven't. What don't I know what am I missing?

912
00:42:50.039 --> 00:42:51.199
And he gave me some great advice.

913
00:42:51.960 --> 00:42:54.000
It's gonna say, John, we do want to just ask

914
00:42:54.079 --> 00:42:56.199
quickly where people can find out more about you.

915
00:42:56.519 --> 00:42:58.719
Let them lead, and then also grab your.

916
00:42:58.719 --> 00:43:01.559
Upcoming book come out next month. Sure, let them lead

917
00:43:01.599 --> 00:43:05.320
us right here. The subtitle is accurate Unexpected lessons in

918
00:43:05.360 --> 00:43:08.519
Leadership from America's worst Tis Goo Hockey team. One problem

919
00:43:08.519 --> 00:43:11.679
I didn't have, and I credit the seniors, especially on

920
00:43:11.760 --> 00:43:15.199
that team. I didn't have dissension on the ranks. There

921
00:43:15.199 --> 00:43:16.800
are three or four clicks in that team, as they're

922
00:43:16.800 --> 00:43:18.639
going to be different crowds and so they're not alway

923
00:43:18.639 --> 00:43:20.719
gonna have the same interest. But they were unified. They

924
00:43:20.719 --> 00:43:23.400
were not playing fingers and that was a senior class beforehand.

925
00:43:23.400 --> 00:43:26.719
But anyway, that is let them Lead by Bacon dot com.

926
00:43:26.840 --> 00:43:29.960
That's the book, that's the podcast that coach Johnson better

927
00:43:30.079 --> 00:43:33.159
understand he's gonna be on that one pretty soon. I

928
00:43:33.159 --> 00:43:35.719
guess my great ones, including some Hall of famers and

929
00:43:35.880 --> 00:43:37.880
other folks like that, Red Barns and the Michigan hockey

930
00:43:37.880 --> 00:43:43.719
coach and NHLers corporate CEOs, really cool stuff. Carol Hutchins

931
00:43:43.719 --> 00:43:47.039
is the great softball coach at Michigan, others and John

932
00:43:47.079 --> 00:43:52.039
Youbacon dot com, John Youbacon dot com, Johnathan h Sorry John,

933
00:43:52.280 --> 00:43:53.840
And that's what you all have to get this book,

934
00:43:54.199 --> 00:43:56.400
The Gales of November. It's on Amazon right now, it's

935
00:43:56.440 --> 00:43:59.719
on the Nordon website, independent bookstores and on They all

936
00:43:59.800 --> 00:44:03.199
got it. So that comes out October seventh, and if

937
00:44:03.360 --> 00:44:05.760
not a bestseller, my boss is gonna be very uhappy

938
00:44:05.800 --> 00:44:08.039
with me. You've had seven of them.

939
00:44:08.119 --> 00:44:09.760
I'm pretty sure your odds are pretty good.

940
00:44:10.880 --> 00:44:13.440
You let them lead by Bacon dot com, John Ubacon

941
00:44:13.480 --> 00:44:16.199
dot com. All that info in the show notes below,

942
00:44:16.239 --> 00:44:18.719
So go grab those books if you want more, John,

943
00:44:18.800 --> 00:44:21.480
you bacon, because of course you do. They say bacon

944
00:44:21.519 --> 00:44:23.639
makes everything better. Our mornings have been made a lot

945
00:44:23.719 --> 00:44:27.039
better by talking with you today than no guilt calorie free.

946
00:44:27.119 --> 00:44:29.840
So thank you doing for your time today. We cannot

947
00:44:29.920 --> 00:44:32.280
thank you enough. We really appreciate you stopping by.

948
00:44:32.639 --> 00:44:35.599
It's very kind, gentle, And on one very important point,

949
00:44:36.039 --> 00:44:37.719
we just had a lot of fun, didn't we love

950
00:44:38.440 --> 00:44:40.280
It has to be fun, and every day is not

951
00:44:40.320 --> 00:44:42.840
gonna be fun, and some things are just gonna plane suck.

952
00:44:43.960 --> 00:44:47.199
If you're leading courteously, you have make some horrible decisions

953
00:44:47.360 --> 00:44:49.519
and you got to make them. And the MADD's got

954
00:44:49.519 --> 00:44:52.039
to come from you, whether it's to an individual or

955
00:44:52.079 --> 00:44:53.519
to the and as I say, when you become the

956
00:44:53.559 --> 00:44:56.039
head coach or the CEO or the department head or

957
00:44:56.039 --> 00:44:58.880
whatever else you're doing with the principle, when you're the assistant,

958
00:44:59.239 --> 00:45:02.000
you're everyone's favorit uncle or aunt and everyone you know,

959
00:45:02.000 --> 00:45:03.679
we're in bed with the coach or the head coach.

960
00:45:03.719 --> 00:45:06.239
To guess what you're the mom or the dad is

961
00:45:06.320 --> 00:45:08.199
a little bit different. You're not the cool one anymore.

962
00:45:08.400 --> 00:45:12.000
With the assistance are the cool ones. But nonetheless, it

963
00:45:12.079 --> 00:45:15.840
has to be fun. It has to feel good. Not

964
00:45:15.960 --> 00:45:18.519
all the time, nothing is all right, but a fair

965
00:45:18.519 --> 00:45:21.599
amount of the time. Find ways to have fun, find

966
00:45:21.639 --> 00:45:23.840
ways for humor. If you don't do it, you're not

967
00:45:23.880 --> 00:45:29.079
gonna make it. It's too hard. You need water, the

968
00:45:29.079 --> 00:45:32.119
desert is hard. You need pack water, pack at lunch packs,

969
00:45:32.119 --> 00:45:34.760
some magazines to read, whatever you need. You got to

970
00:45:34.760 --> 00:45:37.599
make it fun. This was fun, and I knew that

971
00:45:37.760 --> 00:45:39.960
we were doing the right things when the guys look

972
00:45:40.039 --> 00:45:43.280
forward to coming to the rink without that man, and

973
00:45:43.320 --> 00:45:44.960
we had that going in February. That's late in the

974
00:45:45.000 --> 00:45:47.440
season for us. If my team is not sick of

975
00:45:47.480 --> 00:45:49.599
each other, and my team is not sick of the sport,

976
00:45:49.880 --> 00:45:53.280
and your team is both you're probably gonna lose. And

977
00:45:53.320 --> 00:45:54.960
the one rule. Here's one rule. I said it in

978
00:45:55.039 --> 00:45:56.360
the book, the one rule I broke. We were very

979
00:45:56.400 --> 00:45:58.559
good about the rules. We followed rules of other teams.

980
00:45:58.599 --> 00:46:00.800
I know, didn't we knew that going into certain games,

981
00:46:00.840 --> 00:46:03.519
about recruiting and things like this, all this business. But

982
00:46:03.599 --> 00:46:05.239
one rule I did break every year, and I'd do

983
00:46:05.239 --> 00:46:07.760
it again. The way the state works probably New York too,

984
00:46:07.960 --> 00:46:10.320
but the state works is once the season is over,

985
00:46:10.360 --> 00:46:12.039
once you're out of the playoffs, you can't have another

986
00:46:12.079 --> 00:46:15.039
practice and so on. Hockey, unlike baseball and basketball, we

987
00:46:15.119 --> 00:46:17.960
rent that ice, and that ice is expensive. It's reading

988
00:46:17.960 --> 00:46:21.239
a buck. Some practice not cheap. So man, we already

989
00:46:21.239 --> 00:46:23.320
have it Wednesday, Thursday, Friday, we're out of the playoffs.

990
00:46:23.960 --> 00:46:25.840
And I told the guys the ice is available. You

991
00:46:25.880 --> 00:46:27.920
can do what you want. You don't have to do anything,

992
00:46:27.960 --> 00:46:30.079
but you want to play, you can. It's not a practice.

993
00:46:30.079 --> 00:46:32.360
I wasn't trying to get it better just and okay,

994
00:46:32.360 --> 00:46:35.519
we just lost a heartbreaking game in overtime. Totally sucks.

995
00:46:36.320 --> 00:46:38.079
All the guys came back the next day and all

996
00:46:38.079 --> 00:46:40.159
the guys wanted to play, and some guys are playing

997
00:46:40.159 --> 00:46:41.920
goal you weren't goalies, and so on and so forth.

998
00:46:42.079 --> 00:46:44.320
But they weren't sick of the game, and they weren't

999
00:46:44.320 --> 00:46:46.400
sick of each other. And I thought, you know what,

1000
00:46:46.719 --> 00:46:49.760
I'll take that over a playoff win anytime. If your

1001
00:46:49.760 --> 00:46:52.239
guys don't cry at the bank, what something's wrong, it

1002
00:46:52.320 --> 00:46:55.000
should be hard to let go. My kids in third grade,

1003
00:46:55.360 --> 00:46:59.119
we got our last Pittsfield Township machine pitch third grade

1004
00:46:59.119 --> 00:47:02.000
baseball game tomorrow night. And he's already getting sad about it.

1005
00:47:02.679 --> 00:47:06.280
Yet I think there's more baseball in front of you. Yeah,

1006
00:47:06.360 --> 00:47:08.039
for a lot of years, that's more retire jersey in

1007
00:47:08.079 --> 00:47:12.639
the ceremony. I'll but it's gotta mean something, and it's

1008
00:47:12.639 --> 00:47:14.880
got to feel good. And really, the end of the day,

1009
00:47:15.119 --> 00:47:18.280
I got my grabs, you got yours. But that's lead

1010
00:47:18.360 --> 00:47:19.880
to the heart, and if you don't have that, not

1011
00:47:20.000 --> 00:47:21.039
much else is gonna go right.

1012
00:47:21.599 --> 00:47:24.079
Thank you for joining us this week at the Limitless

1013
00:47:24.159 --> 00:47:27.159
Leadership Lounge. To listen to this episode again and to

1014
00:47:27.199 --> 00:47:31.159
find previous episodes, check us out on Apple Podcasts, Spotify,

1015
00:47:31.320 --> 00:47:33.719
and Spreaker. You can also get in on the conversation

1016
00:47:33.960 --> 00:47:36.719
find us on Facebook and Instagram. Then tell three of

1017
00:47:36.760 --> 00:47:39.960
your friends to join it as well. Coach Branuma and John.

1018
00:47:40.000 --> 00:47:43.000
We'll be back again next week for another try generational

1019
00:47:43.079 --> 00:47:46.440
leadership discussion. We'll talk to you then on the Limitless

1020
00:47:46.559 --> 00:47:49.039
Leadership Lounge