Dec. 10, 2025

Speak to Lead: Unlocking Authentic Impact with Allison Shapira

Speak to Lead: Unlocking Authentic Impact with Allison Shapira

How do you speak with authenticity, clarity, and influence in today’s leadership landscape? This week, we sit down with Allison Shapira. She is a Harvard lecturer, executive advisor, bestselling author, and former opera singer, and we explore the art...

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How do you speak with authenticity, clarity, and influence in today’s leadership landscape?

This week, we sit down with Allison Shapira. She is a Harvard lecturer, executive advisor, bestselling author, and former opera singer, and we explore the art and science of communication for emerging leaders.

Allison shares:

  • The secret ACE model for authenticity, clarity, and energy in leadership communication
  • Why authenticity trumps jargon and how to speak in ways that truly connect
  • Techniques from opera singing that supercharge public speaking presence
  • Proven preparation rituals including mental rehearsal to calm nerves and boost confidence
  • Ways to inject humor strategically to captivate and engage audiences
  • How AI can amplify authenticity (not replace it) in leader communication
  • Foundations of servant leadership and why leading with purpose matters now more than ever
Whether you’re giving your first leadership talk or stepping up your influence, this conversation delivers one-on-one coaching to help you speak your truth with impact.

Resources Mentioned:
  • Learn more: https://allisonshapira.com/
  • Connect on Linkedin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/allisonshapira/
  • Books: https://www.amazon.com/stores/Allison-Shapira/author/B07F2TK6CH?ref=ap_rdr&isDramIntegrated=true&shoppingPortalEnabled=true&ccs_id=5941bfd3-e84e-45c2-930b-9265a77f44a4
  • Fenway Park National Anthem Performance
WEBVTT

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This podcast is a proud member of the Teach Better

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podcast network, Better Today, Better Tomorrow, and the podcast to

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get you there.

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You can find out.

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More at Teachbetter dot com slash podcast.

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Your audiences relate to authenticity more than they relate to perfection.

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ACE stands for authenticity, clarity, and energy. How you communicate

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is how you lead, and that's why it's so important

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that leaders learn how to be powerful communicators and great

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public speakers. It's not enough to just be a good speaker.

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There's a difference between that and a powerful public speaker.

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And his structure for story is very simple, which is

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why I love it Old normal, something happens new normal.

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The closer you are to the story, the more powerful

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the story is because you're teaching the audience about who

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you are.

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Do you want to be leader in a constantly changing world?

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Our emerging leaders look different, come from various backgrounds and

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from all different age groups.

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Leadership is changing and it's hard to keep up.

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But the good news you can be a leader too.

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You can be an e merging leader. Welcome to the

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Limitless Leadership Lounge, a try generational conversation for emerging leaders.

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Come spend some time with us to discuss leadership from

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three angles. The coach Jim Johnson, the professor, doctor Renuma Kareem,

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the host, John Gering, a monthly guest, and you get

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in on the conversation on Facebook and Instagram, and be

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sure to follow us on Apple Podcasts, Spotify and Speaker.

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So come on in and make yourself comfortable.

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Speaking with impact. It sounds great, but not always that easy.

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And today we're going to talk about public speaking. We're

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going to talk about leadership from a little bit of

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a different lens and a really inspiring transformation in trends

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position as well. With our guests today, I am John Garing.

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This is the Lentless Leadership Lounge, joined as always by

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coach Jim Johnson. Coach, you connected with Alison and I'm

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really inspired by her story and excited to learn more

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directly from her. So tell us a little bit about

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Alison and let's dive in. Yeah, We're really excited to

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have Ellison on our podcast. So I'm going to read

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a little bio about her.

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Our guest today is an executive advisor, keynote speaker, Harvard lecturer,

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and former opera singer, which I am going to dig

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into elisis Hrpara has spent over twenty years helping senior

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leaders build their confidence to be more effected, especially in

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the way they communicate. She has worked with prime ministers

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in their cabinets and fortune for one hundred executives. She

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teaches communication at the Harvard Kennedy School and has been

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featured in The Wall Street Journal, The New York Times,

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in the Harvard Business Review. Her first book, Speak with Impact,

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How to Command the Room and Influence Others, was a

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Washington Post bestseller, and she's I need to publish her

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most recent book that will be out when we released this,

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called AI for the Authentic Leader, How to Communicate more

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effectively without losing your humanity. Let's welcome Ellison's chapero to

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the Limitless Leadership Louse. So welcome Allison. Great to have you.

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Thank you so much. It's great to be here. And

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I've got a lot of questions.

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But the opera singer, see, my son was very much

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in a musical theater, so ALTHI he wasn't in an opera,

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but I am. My curiousity strikes me. And we want

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to help young emerging leaders and they often change careers

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and so with that my question is simply opera singer

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to be a communication expert, tell me the story.

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It makes sense in hindsight. It did not make sense

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at the time. But growing up, all I wanted to

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do was be an opera singer. That was my singular

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goal and focus, even in middle school and then in

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high school. And once I started studying in college and

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started performing, I lost my passion for it and realized

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it wasn't what I wanted to do with my life.

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But it turns out, as I found out in my

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first job after college, that being an opera singer actually

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made me a very good public speaker and an even

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better coach. And I say that because as a singer,

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we learn how to use breathing and breath support to

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calm our nerves and project our voice. That was very

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helpful as a speaker, And then you'll probably appreciate this

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as well. When we're not singing. As opera singers were

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critiquing other singers, and so I developed a very nuanced

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eye and ear for those subtle shifts we make in

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our physical and vocal presence that have an impact on

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our performance. And so I learned that I already knew

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a lot of techniques that would help people change and

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improve the way they perform, whether they're giving a speech

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or singing. And so that's how I made that transition.

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And once I realized how similar opera was or singing

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was to speaking, then I was able to very quickly

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redirect those skills, although I did have a lot to

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learn in terms of content creation and speech writing and

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persuasion and influence because opera singers don't learn how to

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write their own material, we learn how to deliver other

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people's material.

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Yeah, and I gotta say, when I first heard you

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transitioned from opera singing to speaking, I thought, boy, probably

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sing probably made speaking feel easy, right, because some of

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those ridiculous amount of talent that it takes to be

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an opera singer. Yet public speaking is still feared more

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than death according to some studies. How was the comparison

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between opera singing and speaking. You talked about some of

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the similarities, but what were some of those differences as well?

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There are a number of differences. I would definitely say

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performing opera for me was always harder than giving a

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speech level. I never felt like I was in charge

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of or had full control of all the tools I

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needed to succeed. Now do we all have full control

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of the tools that we use at any time? No,

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not even in speaking. But I did feel a stronger

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level of competency and control when I came to speaking

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than it did to singing. So that was one difference.

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Another difference, and I talk about this a lot in

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my keynotes and when I'm advising leaders one on one

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is that opera is about perfection. We don't relate to

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the opera singer when she or he makes a mistake,

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We're like, oh, their voice cracked, or or even if

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they mispronounced an Italian word, if it was an open

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e and it was supposed to be a closed e,

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people in the audience are like, oh, yeah, she obviously

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doesn't speak Italian, and they ding you in your mind.

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Whereas now I'm a folk singer as well as a speaker,

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and I find folk music is more about authenticity, and

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we don't expect the folks singer to be perfect. We

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expect them to be themselves, to be authentic, and if

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they make a mistake, it's part of the magic of

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the performance, and we lean in and want to sing along.

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And a point I like to make is that public

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speaking is closer to folk music than it is to opera,

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So your audiences relate to authenticity more than they relate

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to perfection.

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Okay, Gotti. Because we want to help young and emerging leaders,

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and public speaking is usually part of when you get

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into leadership than talking to your team or even various

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groups or trying to sell something. So if you were

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to zero down to make it, because I know one

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of the things reading about you is helping people will

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be more concise. So we were zero down, this new

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leader his or her has to give us a speech

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in front of a group. Give me three keys that

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you would help that person in being more powerful as

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a presenter.

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I've developed a model of communication that I call the

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ACE model of leadership communication. And these are three qualities,

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three competencies I would recommend for any leader, whether they're

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more junior in their career or more senior. And ACE

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stands for authenticity, clarity, and energy, and so authenticity for

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a leader means you're not using the jargon and acronyms

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that you think you're expected to use. You have the

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confidence to speak clearly and directly, and that's something that

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takes practice and courage in order to use because a

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lot of new leaders feel like they need to use

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the jargon to show they know what they're talking about.

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So authenticity is about giving yourself permission to use language

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that resonates with you, and you have to be strategic

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about it as well that resonates with your target audience.

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The second component is around clarity, which you've mentioned is

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critical in the way that we communicate, and in these settings,

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clarity means being able to look at the big picture

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of what we're talking about instead of diving into the

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weeds right away. And many new leaders were promoted to

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leadership because they've become subject matter experts or because they've

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developed a depth in one particular area. Then they're moved

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into leadership and they think their benefit comes from that expertise.

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But what they don't realize is they're two in the

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weeds in the way they're communicating a message. Whereas the

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more senior you become and the more senior the people

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you're speaking to, the less of their time you have,

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and so it's critical to be able to get to

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the point and then unpack the details if your audience

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wants you to. And then the third component of the

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ACE model is the energy that you project as a leader,

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and it recognizes the fact that as a leader, when

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you enter a room and you are now the senior

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most person in the room, everyone takes their cues from

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you on how to feel. You determine based on your energy,

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your mood, whether people feel excited or anxious. And a

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lot of leaders don't realize how much their energy affects others,

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and so they're not intentional about the energy they bring,

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and they can unintentionally derail the productivity of their team

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by their energy.

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I love that acronym ACE. Also, I think we got

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to just back up for a quick second, because you

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help with public speaking. You help leaders lead with confidence,

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end so much more. But leaders don't all realize that

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they need to be effective public speakers. This is amazing

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to me because you hear this every once in a while.

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I got a PR lady or a PR guy, or

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my industry, we don't really need to do any public speaking.

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But tell us why that's so inheccurate. All leaders need

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to be good public speakers? Is that correct?

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Yes? And the point that I raise with this is

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that as you move into leadership and senior leaders, tell

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me this again and again. Over fifty percent of your

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day is spent communicating the messages of your organization. It's

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now no longer about you having a conversation with your team.

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You're now responsible for sharing the messages of your organization

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with your team. And the senior leaders call it cascading

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the message down. They decide at the top, they cascade

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the message down, and now you have to communicate that

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message as if it were yours to your team, and

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that can become challenging. You probably weren't part of creating

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the message. You may or may not agree with the

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message or even understand the message, and now you're responsible

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for delivering that message with confidence and authenticity. How do

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you do that? We have techniques for doing that. So

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the more senior you become, the more of your data

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is spent communicating these critical messages, which means how you

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communicate is how you lead. And that's why it's so

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important that leaders learn how to be powerful communicators and

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great public speakers. It's not enough to just be a

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good speaker. There's a difference between that and a powerful

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public speaker.

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I got to ask you this to help because you've

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given hundreds of presentations, So give us advice on how

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you assess your presentation to help people, because sometimes I

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do a lot of speeches too, and you get all

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great job. It makes your ego feel good that you

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don't really learn much from that kind of comment, and

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it's something I really tried to spend time and how

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can I make myself eat even better? And I think

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often as leaders, you do a presentation and because you're

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the leader, oftentimes they may give you any criticism or

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give you any suggestions. So help that leader because I

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know you do yourself, and how do you assess after

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you do a presentation so you can get better.

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It's such an important point because good leaders ask for feedback,

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and great leaders ask for feedback in advance before they speak.

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So it's a common mistake people make is they'll give

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a speech or presentation and then they'll turn to someone

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on their team and afterward and say how'd I do,

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which puts that person in a very uncomfortable position, and

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they didn't know that person didn't know they were expected

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to give feedback. So what I teach leaders to do

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is I give them a list of questions and I

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give them guidance on first identify someone you trust who

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will be in the meeting, and then in advance reach

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out to them and say, I'm going to ask you

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for feedback after I'll ask you for feedback in the

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moment in person, because if you ask them to write

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it down, all of a sudden, you get legal questions

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in your mind. Can I put this into writing? Is

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it appropriate? So do it live and it can be

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virtual or in person, but it should be live and

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spoken as opposed to written, and then give them guidance

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on what you're looking for. So if you're working with

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a coach or an advisor, someone like me and I've

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talked about the fact that you start every sentence by saying, so,

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you might tell this person I'm working on reducing my

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use of sows. I want to make sure that people

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understand what I'm saying, that I have clear transitions from

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one point to the next, I have a clear call

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to action, and I look at people while talking to

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them as opposed to presenting to the middle of the table.

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So be specific. You can even have a list of

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competencies you're looking to evaluate, give that to someone and

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then immediately make time while it's fresh to ask them

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their feedback and encourage them, in short, to them that

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it's going to be a safe process for doing so.

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It's not tied to their performance review. We have to

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make it safe for people to give us feedback.

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There we go, Alison, you got me on one of

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my crunches.

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It's my crunch as well. I start sentences with, so

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there we go.

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Tell me a little bit more because you hinted at it.

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The difference between a good speaker but not a good

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public speaker who makes it impact. Tell me a bit

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about the difference between those.

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The difference is a good speaker is someone who typically

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is comfortable in front of an audience. They are They

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probably speak with a smooth flow, with a minimal amount

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of filler words, and make the audience feel good when

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they speak. But those are some of the qualities to

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describe a good speaker. A great public speaker is intentional

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in advance about how they craft the message. They're very

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specific in the structure they use and the specific call

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to action they have at the end. They take time

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to intentionally craft an opening sentence that captures their audience

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attention and a conclusion that leaves the audience with a

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vision of how the future will look if our recommendation

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is implemented, and then they're able to modulate their voice

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to keep people's attention. They use techniques that draw people in,

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whether it's through their eye contact or their gestures. So

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they're using more tools intentionally to create an experience for

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their audience that touches the audience and leaves a lasting impact.

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It's the difference, in my opinion, between a good speaker

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and a great public speaker.

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Yes, I got to hinted a little bit towards this,

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and a few years ago my priest at my church

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asked me to come in to talk to or to

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observe the deacons doing a short sermon. And I started

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to tease them because I asked them a question, what

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was Jesus Christ known for? And they kind of looked

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at me be fluddled, and I said he was known

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as a master storyteller. And because often at our church,

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whether it's a pastor or a deacon, doesn't use stories.

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And so my question to you is stories, I know

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are essential, but can you give us some tips on

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how to be a more powerful storyteller?

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Certainly, and storytelling is a particular skill, just like humor

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is a skill, just like brevity is a skill. So

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very often we'll tell people just put more stories in

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your speeches, but we don't tell people how to find

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a story, had to craft a story, and had to

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tell a story, all of which are part of the

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skill set of being an effective storyteller. So I like

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to help. And there's my soul, John, you heard me

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start my sentence. Listen. I recommend that when people are

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looking for a story, they think about the values that

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they want to convey in any particular moment, in a speech,

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a presentation, even a difficult conversation. What core value do

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I want to demonstrate in this moment or is inherent

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in my message? And then when was a time in

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my life when I learned that value or saw it

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in action, or maybe didn't see it in action, And

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that's where I learned the value. So some people learn

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the value of honesty by experiencing dishonor So think about

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that moment and then go back and relive it in

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order to tease out the three components of that story.

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And I love to wreck men the framework that Donald

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Davis uses. He's a master storyteller and has written a

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number of books which I recommend and his structure for

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story is very simple, which is why I love it.

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Old normal, something happens, new normal, old normal? Where were you?

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What was life like? What did the world look like?

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And then something happens. It was nineteen ninety five, I

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left the house and everything changed. There's a moment of

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tension and choice that something happens in that story, and

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then as a result of what happens, there's a new

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normal that's created. And ever since that day, I've never

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forgotten the value of the importance of And we talk

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about how we've changed, and then once we've shared that story,

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then we can share what the message is of that story.

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That's why I'm here today to tell you about the

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importance of and then you share your message and then

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you have a call to action for the audience. So

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that's a framework, it's a process, and it's a practice

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of using storytelling in order to convey a message. And

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all of that comes back to the intention of being

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a great speaker. They don't just speak off the cuff

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about something meaningful that happened to them. They take the

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time to craft a story, to find what needs to

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be in this story, what's irrelevant that I don't want

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to include, and they shape it to make it as

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powerful as possible.

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Alison, that really resonates with me because my brand Story

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Trust Media was founded for that exact reason, because I

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believe that when you tell story, you build trust with

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your audience. And in my case, whether it's an audiobook

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or podcast production, that's really important because that's really the

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ultimate goal of that content is building trust with your audience,

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as I know it is in speaking too, maybe in

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a little bit of a different way, but tell us

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a little bit about how you build more trust with

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your audiences besides just telling stories.

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It's so important. You're absolutely right that stories build trust

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when they're true. When they're true, and one of the

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challenges that we see when people tell stories is they'll

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tell stories that aren't their stories. Very often will will

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mistrust a politician who tells the story of someone he

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met or she met on the campaign trail, and we

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think that's not your story. You're just appropriating someone else's

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story for your own campaign. The closer you are to

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the story, the more powerful the story is because you're

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teaching the audience about who you are, not somebody else.

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Who you are, who someone in your family was and

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how that impacted you. And when you tell a story

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like that, your audience's brain starts to neurologically respond and

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release oxytocin, which creates a feeling of trust and connection.

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So that, as John, is a way of building trust

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when we use storytelling in that process. Now, other ways

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in which I believe we build trust with the audience

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are when we're willing to share messages that are difficult

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but that we know our audience is thinking about. So

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very often when we have to deliver a difficult message,

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I like to start with the I call it the

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I know what you're thinking principle. Now not actually saying

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I know what you're thinking, but I'm acknowledging what I

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believe to be on my audience's mind instead of trying

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to cover it up or leave it to the Q

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and A. Because if it's on their mind and you're

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not addressing it, they're not listening to you. So by

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boldly acknowledging now, some of you may be thinking this

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isn't fair. Some of you may be wondering where are

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we going? And you'll be right to think that. Acknowledging

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that their concerns are value and then explaining an alternate

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perspective is a way of building trust. And then a

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final way that I find or another way of building

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trust is ensuring that every part of you is communicating

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the same message. And I believe that's a big part

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of our executive presence. It's not just saying the right

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words at the right time. It's making sure our facial expressions,

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our body language, our voice and tone are communicating the

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same message as our words. Because what I've observed is

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when there's a disconnect between what you say and how

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you say it, people believe the how and they mistrust

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the what. That's why it's so important that everything be

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in alignment.

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Well, so I got to do full circle with in

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l Al since we talk from beginning. But I'd like

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to know because I know I've I've heard leaders that

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what I would call our ramblers, they just keep talking

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and tell. So help those people on being more concise.

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A reason that people tend to ramble is that they

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haven't prepared an advance, and a lot of people feel

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like they'll be more spontaneous and more genuine when they

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haven't prepared. Yes, and they'll also be more verbose because

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part of the preparation process is strategically thinking through what

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do I want to say, what does my audience want

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or need to hear, and how do I say it

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in the best possible way, Because the more we speak,

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the less they're listening to us, and so we do

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need to be precise in advance about going through that

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process and then looking at what we've written with a

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critical I to say is this necessary? Does this reinforce

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my message? Or is it better left to Q and

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A afterward? And I'll recommend for those who have been

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given feedback that they're verbose, I'll recommend and that they

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practice delivering a presentation in whatever the amount of time

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is that they've been allotted for the presentation, then practice

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that same presentation in half the time. And I don't

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mean rushing through it like an Academy Award speech, cutting

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out what doesn't need to be there, and then practicing

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it again and half the time of that, so it's

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full time halftime and then I guess that's quarter time,

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isn't it?

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In strame?

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And so you'll find that you naturally cut away what

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doesn't belong and arrive at what's critical. And that's a

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process that builds the muscle of brevity.

430
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Yeah yeah, and we noticed too that you're quite concise

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as well, so you practice what you preach. So we

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00:25:49.200 --> 00:25:53.480
really appreciate that, Alison. For a young leader who just

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got promoted, what will they learn from your book Speak

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with Impact.

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The reason I wrote the book Speak with Impact is

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that I wanted leaders, especially new leaders, to have a tool,

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a handbook to help them as they got promoted and

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moved into leadership. So I wanted a senior leader to

439
00:26:13.079 --> 00:26:17.000
say to someone more junior, congratulations, you've been promoted. Here's

440
00:26:17.000 --> 00:26:19.559
a book to help you. And the book's goal is

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to give you a process to write, practice, and deliver

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00:26:24.480 --> 00:26:28.559
a speech or presentation in a way that's confident, authentic,

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and affective. So one of the reasons most people are

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afraid of public speaking is that they don't have any

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practice with it and they don't know how to do it.

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It's like telling someone putting them into a tennis game

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without ever showing them how to hit a tennis ball,

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how to hold a racket or move their feet. And

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so the book shows you how to build these skills

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so that when you go into the game of leading

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of speaking, you're prepared you're ready and you show up

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is your best?

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Well, I got to dig in even a little deeper

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because you've made a very powerful point there the fact

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that they don't know how to prepare. Can you give

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a couple suggestions and how they would practice to be

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really ready for when they give their presentation?

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Sure to start with before they write the presentation. I

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always recommend people ask themselves three questions. First question, who's

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your audience? Who are you speaking to? Second question, what's

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your goal? What do you want people to do as

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a result of hearing you speak? And the third question

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00:27:35.960 --> 00:27:40.680
is why you which doesn't mean why are you qualified?

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What's your title? It means why do you care about

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the work you do and the impact you want to have?

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And there's a sub question which gets at your point

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about storytelling and when was a moment that made you care?

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Because when you uncover that motivation, you connect with a

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sense of purpose that grounds you and gives you confidence

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from the inside out. And those three questions I always

471
00:28:07.720 --> 00:28:13.160
recommend anyone ask, especially new leaders, because you won't have

472
00:28:13.640 --> 00:28:17.799
thirty years of experience and a senior level title to

473
00:28:17.960 --> 00:28:21.359
give you the formal authority to be speaking, Your right

474
00:28:21.440 --> 00:28:25.039
to speak comes from within, it comes from why you care,

475
00:28:25.680 --> 00:28:28.599
and so it helps you get around that feeling that

476
00:28:28.680 --> 00:28:30.960
you need a more senior title for people to take

477
00:28:31.000 --> 00:28:34.680
you seriously. Once you've done that, now you can write

478
00:28:34.759 --> 00:28:37.440
the speech and you can write it down or write out,

479
00:28:37.480 --> 00:28:40.559
write out, and outline. I then have a process that

480
00:28:40.599 --> 00:28:43.240
I use to help people convert it from a script

481
00:28:43.319 --> 00:28:46.319
to bullet points, and then practice it in a number

482
00:28:46.400 --> 00:28:49.880
of different ways in front of a mirror, to practice

483
00:28:49.880 --> 00:28:54.240
your gestures, recording it, to listen to your voice, or

484
00:28:54.279 --> 00:28:59.279
I know a common training technique from sports is mental rehearsal.

485
00:29:00.000 --> 00:29:03.200
I'll do that the night before every presentation, I close

486
00:29:03.279 --> 00:29:06.000
my eyes. I sit in a comfortable seat, close my eyes,

487
00:29:06.400 --> 00:29:09.880
and I deliver the presentation word for word with my

488
00:29:09.960 --> 00:29:15.279
eyes closed, and I imagine it going well. And I'm

489
00:29:15.319 --> 00:29:19.000
starting to build muscle memory so that the next day

490
00:29:19.039 --> 00:29:21.200
when I go into the room and deliver that presentation,

491
00:29:21.640 --> 00:29:26.039
I've already succeeded at it. I'm just repeating the success

492
00:29:26.200 --> 00:29:27.240
that I had yesterday.

493
00:29:27.680 --> 00:29:30.400
Yeah, I'm going to bookmark a thought because I know

494
00:29:30.519 --> 00:29:33.759
you you're interested in AI as well, and you mentioned

495
00:29:33.799 --> 00:29:35.519
some of the things that you do, and I'm wondering

496
00:29:35.559 --> 00:29:38.000
if some AI tools could help with that. But I'm

497
00:29:38.039 --> 00:29:39.720
not going to go there yet because i had one

498
00:29:39.720 --> 00:29:43.240
more question on public speaking, so I'm bookmarking that. I'm

499
00:29:43.279 --> 00:29:45.440
saying that out loud so that just to make sure

500
00:29:45.480 --> 00:29:48.920
I remember. But Allison, we can't have a conversation about

501
00:29:49.200 --> 00:29:54.039
public speaking without talking about fear. Because sure, maybe those

502
00:29:54.039 --> 00:29:57.200
good speakers, the ones who are really charismatic and know

503
00:29:57.240 --> 00:29:59.640
how to flow and feel comfortable in front of an audience,

504
00:29:59.759 --> 00:30:02.400
maybe they don't feel it, but so many of us do,

505
00:30:02.839 --> 00:30:06.160
and some of those of us who do are actually leaders,

506
00:30:06.519 --> 00:30:09.039
and public speaking is not something we look forward to.

507
00:30:09.200 --> 00:30:11.839
So what about those people who don't feel comfortable and

508
00:30:12.000 --> 00:30:16.839
actually would rather take on like spiders than public speaking.

509
00:30:16.839 --> 00:30:18.799
Because I know those are two of the biggest fears

510
00:30:18.839 --> 00:30:20.799
in the world, and I know I'm with you on

511
00:30:20.839 --> 00:30:23.359
that one, but there are some people who really can't

512
00:30:23.359 --> 00:30:25.920
stand public speaking. Tell us a little bit about overcoming

513
00:30:25.920 --> 00:30:26.359
that fear.

514
00:30:26.960 --> 00:30:29.359
We're not going to talk about spiders on this podcast

515
00:30:29.359 --> 00:30:32.599
because it's not a big fan. They have every right

516
00:30:32.640 --> 00:30:35.599
to exist and they play an important function in our ecosystem.

517
00:30:35.799 --> 00:30:39.720
I just don't want them on me or near missing agreed, Yeah.

518
00:30:40.599 --> 00:30:43.240
But it's so interesting that you say that, because my

519
00:30:43.400 --> 00:30:48.400
fear of spiders is completely impractical. Have I been bitten

520
00:30:48.440 --> 00:30:48.880
by one?

521
00:30:49.160 --> 00:30:49.319
No?

522
00:30:49.720 --> 00:30:51.279
Are most of them dangerous?

523
00:30:51.680 --> 00:30:51.839
No?

524
00:30:52.200 --> 00:30:54.720
Are they trying to hurt me? No, They're just doing

525
00:30:54.759 --> 00:30:57.759
their thing, playing their part in the ecosystem. And yet

526
00:30:57.799 --> 00:31:04.480
I have this miseral, immediate negative response when I see one,

527
00:31:04.720 --> 00:31:08.240
and so a lot of people feel a similar visceral

528
00:31:08.359 --> 00:31:13.079
negative response to public speaking. The difference is a fear

529
00:31:13.119 --> 00:31:15.000
of spiders is not going to hold you back in

530
00:31:15.039 --> 00:31:19.039
your career. A fear of public speaking absolutely will hold

531
00:31:19.079 --> 00:31:22.039
you back in your career. So there's a utility to

532
00:31:22.519 --> 00:31:25.759
learning it. And that's the first step in addressing this

533
00:31:25.839 --> 00:31:30.880
fear as recognizing it is holding you back from serving

534
00:31:30.920 --> 00:31:34.920
the people you want to serve, from the mission that

535
00:31:35.039 --> 00:31:39.480
you strive for in your life, which probably affects other people.

536
00:31:39.680 --> 00:31:44.000
So I define leadership as bringing people together to achieve

537
00:31:44.039 --> 00:31:48.319
a shared objective. Without public speaking, you will have a

538
00:31:48.519 --> 00:31:53.200
very big problem trying to wrangle people together and creating

539
00:31:53.319 --> 00:31:56.799
a vision that they can see and work towards. So

540
00:31:56.839 --> 00:32:00.799
it's recognizing the utility and the necessity of this tool. Secondly,

541
00:32:01.200 --> 00:32:05.480
it's actually embracing the fear, so I get nervous before

542
00:32:05.559 --> 00:32:10.119
every presentation, every single one. In those instances when I

543
00:32:10.240 --> 00:32:13.759
don't get nervous, that's when I make mistakes. I don't

544
00:32:13.759 --> 00:32:18.000
practice enough, I get sloppy, I might get arrogant in

545
00:32:18.240 --> 00:32:23.000
my speeches. And I've had situations where it's so comfortable

546
00:32:23.119 --> 00:32:26.759
that my New York sarcasm came out and I offended

547
00:32:26.799 --> 00:32:31.640
people in the audience. So it's we actually want to

548
00:32:32.200 --> 00:32:38.079
recognize that fear, that discomfort is natural. We want to

549
00:32:38.200 --> 00:32:43.960
reframe the nervousness as excitement because they're both caused by adrenaline.

550
00:32:44.519 --> 00:32:47.480
It's just a question of how do we judge that feeling.

551
00:32:48.200 --> 00:32:51.599
And then once we reframe it, we say, Okay, how

552
00:32:51.640 --> 00:32:55.720
do I embrace it and use breathing to harness it

553
00:32:56.039 --> 00:32:59.240
and use it to ensure that I'm focused and I

554
00:32:59.279 --> 00:33:02.920
don't procres fascinate and I bring my best self to

555
00:33:03.119 --> 00:33:07.200
this presentation because the fear is actually ensuring that I

556
00:33:07.200 --> 00:33:09.559
can't focus on anything else because I'm too nervous to

557
00:33:09.599 --> 00:33:13.599
think about anything else. Okay, let's focus on this, and

558
00:33:13.640 --> 00:33:17.400
then through the book you have tools to take advantage

559
00:33:17.519 --> 00:33:19.279
of that in order to be your best self.

560
00:33:19.519 --> 00:33:22.359
Elison John said, he's going to bookmark your AI. I

561
00:33:22.359 --> 00:33:24.039
know you have another book coming out, so I'm not

562
00:33:24.039 --> 00:33:26.519
going to steal his question. It was on my agenda,

563
00:33:26.599 --> 00:33:29.160
but I will go in another direction. So I know

564
00:33:29.240 --> 00:33:32.319
you've mentioned very briefly, and when I first joined the

565
00:33:32.400 --> 00:33:35.240
National Speakers Association, I think I've been to remember about

566
00:33:35.240 --> 00:33:38.039
fourteen years now. One of the things I kid did

567
00:33:38.079 --> 00:33:40.839
on keynotes is do you have to have humor in

568
00:33:40.839 --> 00:33:43.640
your keynote? And the response is only if you want

569
00:33:43.680 --> 00:33:47.200
to get paid, And so I know that's saying I'm curious,

570
00:33:47.279 --> 00:33:51.039
how do you help people? Because I think injecting some

571
00:33:51.160 --> 00:33:53.200
humor in your presentation.

572
00:33:52.839 --> 00:33:54.240
Is vitally important.

573
00:33:54.599 --> 00:33:56.440
Give us some ideas on how do you help people?

574
00:33:56.559 --> 00:34:02.039
That that's an area that I'm working on myself actually recognizing,

575
00:34:02.640 --> 00:34:05.480
especially in times like these, I find it's a chaotic

576
00:34:05.519 --> 00:34:09.199
time in the world and what audiences want or yes,

577
00:34:09.280 --> 00:34:12.400
they want answers, they want ideas and strategies, and they

578
00:34:12.599 --> 00:34:16.599
also want to release from the pressure that they're feeling

579
00:34:16.719 --> 00:34:20.079
in any industry and any sector. And so I want

580
00:34:20.079 --> 00:34:23.480
to add more humor to my own presentations so that

581
00:34:23.519 --> 00:34:26.960
I can help them relax and let off some steam

582
00:34:27.079 --> 00:34:29.480
and then focus on the task at hand. So it's

583
00:34:29.519 --> 00:34:33.119
something I'm turning to professionals for. I'm not an expert

584
00:34:33.440 --> 00:34:37.360
in humor or. I'm not a professional humorist. I am

585
00:34:37.519 --> 00:34:42.239
learning humorous techniques that I can bring in and I'm

586
00:34:42.360 --> 00:34:47.400
learning at learning how we can add humor into our

587
00:34:47.440 --> 00:34:52.599
presentations and especially how we can laugh at ourselves in

588
00:34:52.679 --> 00:34:55.639
ways that lets the audience know it's okay for them

589
00:34:56.119 --> 00:34:59.599
to laugh at themselves. And I'm what I've always been

590
00:34:59.639 --> 00:35:03.199
good at is situational humor to be able to comment.

591
00:35:03.280 --> 00:35:06.480
It comes from the New York Sarcasm. It's commenting with

592
00:35:06.679 --> 00:35:11.199
humor on the reality around us, and that's something that

593
00:35:11.239 --> 00:35:15.519
I've been able to cultivate with my clients. I tend

594
00:35:15.639 --> 00:35:19.400
to help give them feedback on whether their attempt at

595
00:35:19.480 --> 00:35:22.639
humor is effective or not, and to help guide them

596
00:35:22.719 --> 00:35:26.719
in what pitfalls to avoid, what types of humor to

597
00:35:26.920 --> 00:35:31.599
avoid so that they don't offend their audience or do

598
00:35:31.679 --> 00:35:35.880
something that's going to negatively impact their career trajectory.

599
00:35:36.400 --> 00:35:38.199
I got to ask you one more questions because I've

600
00:35:38.239 --> 00:35:42.840
actually talked to speakers where they actually every like three

601
00:35:42.920 --> 00:35:46.039
minutes they want to inject some type of humor I

602
00:35:46.239 --> 00:35:49.119
never personally do it. I definitely have humor my presentation,

603
00:35:49.280 --> 00:35:51.880
but I don't I'm not to that. What's your thoughts

604
00:35:51.920 --> 00:35:52.280
on that.

605
00:35:53.239 --> 00:35:55.920
I know certainly people who do that. It's an important

606
00:35:55.920 --> 00:35:59.719
part of comedy and stand up and they laughs per

607
00:35:59.760 --> 00:36:03.280
minute and it is critical. I find when people force

608
00:36:03.639 --> 00:36:08.239
humor at specific intervals, some of the humor is good

609
00:36:08.360 --> 00:36:12.719
and some winds up feeling forced. So what I'm doing

610
00:36:12.760 --> 00:36:15.239
in my keynotes is I'm going through it and I'm

611
00:36:15.280 --> 00:36:18.639
starting to develop an inner rhythm that says, Okay, here's

612
00:36:18.679 --> 00:36:22.480
a good part for humor. Let's think about what kind

613
00:36:22.519 --> 00:36:25.880
of humor I might add. Let's consult someone I'm working

614
00:36:25.880 --> 00:36:28.960
with to help me find that humor, and let's put

615
00:36:28.960 --> 00:36:32.360
it in. But I don't want people to force a

616
00:36:32.400 --> 00:36:36.440
certain number of laughs per minute, because then I think

617
00:36:36.440 --> 00:36:39.159
it's going to be counterproductive and it will start to

618
00:36:39.599 --> 00:36:43.760
feel more like a performance than a conversation between them

619
00:36:43.800 --> 00:36:44.440
and the audience.

620
00:36:45.000 --> 00:36:47.480
Yeah, I'll say one thing. I know, Janal a question

621
00:36:47.519 --> 00:36:50.360
for you, but that really helped me immensely. Like my

622
00:36:50.519 --> 00:36:55.719
assistant coach is extremely humorous, and he would give me

623
00:36:56.360 --> 00:36:58.679
just a better way to say things. So I just

624
00:36:58.719 --> 00:37:02.039
wanted to add that people are planning because some people

625
00:37:02.079 --> 00:37:06.000
are funnier naturally than others, but we all can inject

626
00:37:06.079 --> 00:37:08.719
humor and getting some advice from people that are just

627
00:37:08.760 --> 00:37:11.679
more naturally funny or or even a comedian that I

628
00:37:11.679 --> 00:37:14.719
think is an interesting aspect for sure. All Right, John,

629
00:37:14.760 --> 00:37:16.719
I've been hiking a conversation over to you.

630
00:37:16.760 --> 00:37:19.239
No, that's okay. You let me have my AI question

631
00:37:19.280 --> 00:37:22.000
and we'll get into that. But I one more before that,

632
00:37:22.079 --> 00:37:26.559
because we're all educators here, Allison, You and I Bill

633
00:37:27.000 --> 00:37:30.679
in higher education to some extent. Right, you're New Yorker

634
00:37:31.280 --> 00:37:34.519
at Harvard, So first of all, what's up with that?

635
00:37:34.679 --> 00:37:37.280
I didn't know that was possible. And second of all,

636
00:37:37.320 --> 00:37:40.639
what is the value to you for teaching the next generation?

637
00:37:40.760 --> 00:37:43.440
How does that make you feel? And why ultimately do

638
00:37:43.480 --> 00:37:43.840
you do it?

639
00:37:44.360 --> 00:37:46.480
I have a New York sensive humor because I'm the

640
00:37:46.639 --> 00:37:49.519
daughter of New Yorkers. Yeah, but I grew up in

641
00:37:49.559 --> 00:37:53.280
Connecticut and then Florida, So the New York humor comes

642
00:37:53.480 --> 00:37:57.000
through my family. They're the New Yorkers. I am a

643
00:37:57.079 --> 00:38:00.519
New Englander through and through, that's for sure. Also a

644
00:38:00.559 --> 00:38:05.239
Bostonian after having been there for fourteen years. So it's

645
00:38:05.360 --> 00:38:10.400
not so helpful with sports teams as a Red Sox fan.

646
00:38:10.639 --> 00:38:13.159
But I will say my dad was a Brooklyn Dodgers fan,

647
00:38:13.199 --> 00:38:15.840
so we don't have any kind of Yankees Red Sox

648
00:38:16.679 --> 00:38:21.960
issues in the family. It's being a someone in Boston.

649
00:38:22.039 --> 00:38:27.440
I've actually really really come to feel at home in Boston.

650
00:38:27.719 --> 00:38:32.239
In Cambridge, I even sang the national anthem for the

651
00:38:32.280 --> 00:38:36.280
Red Sox at the park, so that made me a

652
00:38:36.280 --> 00:38:38.000
lifelong Red Sox fan after that.

653
00:38:38.719 --> 00:38:39.960
Was it an opera rendition?

654
00:38:41.119 --> 00:38:45.599
It was an operatic version of It's a The star

655
00:38:45.679 --> 00:38:50.679
Spangled banner has a very wide range, so you started

656
00:38:51.239 --> 00:38:53.559
as in more of a I would say, a pop

657
00:38:53.679 --> 00:38:55.760
I we used chest voice, and then I went to

658
00:38:55.840 --> 00:38:58.039
head voice, which is the terms that we use as

659
00:38:58.039 --> 00:39:00.119
singers than more of a pop voice and then more

660
00:39:00.159 --> 00:39:03.519
of an operatic voice as the song progressed.

661
00:39:03.800 --> 00:39:06.400
Yes, that would have been something to witness so cool.

662
00:39:07.000 --> 00:39:09.880
It's on YouTube you can search for Really, I was

663
00:39:10.079 --> 00:39:12.679
Alison Greenspan at the time, so you can do a

664
00:39:12.719 --> 00:39:17.559
search for Alison Greenspan Fenway Park and you will see it.

665
00:39:17.559 --> 00:39:22.840
It was also put in the show just for fine absolutely.

666
00:39:22.239 --> 00:39:25.440
But you would ask John about how I feel teaching

667
00:39:25.920 --> 00:39:29.320
the Next Generation at Harvard and I teach at the

668
00:39:29.400 --> 00:39:32.960
Kennedy School, which is a graduate school of government. So

669
00:39:33.000 --> 00:39:37.519
my students age from twenty five to sixty five. It's

670
00:39:37.519 --> 00:39:41.079
a very broad range. Summer early in their career, summer

671
00:39:41.119 --> 00:39:43.559
in their mid career. Some are looking at what they're

672
00:39:43.559 --> 00:39:47.360
going to do post retirement. So the classroom is very rich.

673
00:39:48.559 --> 00:39:53.599
It's been seventy five percent international students in my classroom historically,

674
00:39:54.199 --> 00:39:57.199
and so also very diverse in terms of where students

675
00:39:57.280 --> 00:40:01.239
come from. I love it because because the students who

676
00:40:01.280 --> 00:40:06.599
come specifically to the Kennedy School have a focus on

677
00:40:06.760 --> 00:40:12.079
public leadership. It's not just about making money or optimizing

678
00:40:12.119 --> 00:40:16.159
for shareholder value. It's about making a positive impact on

679
00:40:16.320 --> 00:40:20.559
the world. So they are inherently purpose driven, which means

680
00:40:20.760 --> 00:40:26.119
when they speak, it's easier to help them reframe speaking

681
00:40:26.519 --> 00:40:29.719
as not about them being the center of attention, but

682
00:40:29.800 --> 00:40:32.880
their message being the center of attention and the people

683
00:40:32.920 --> 00:40:35.960
they want to impact as the center of attention. So

684
00:40:35.960 --> 00:40:40.320
there's very much a servant leadership mindset that these students

685
00:40:40.480 --> 00:40:43.840
have that I love working with. Because they already have

686
00:40:43.960 --> 00:40:48.119
the motivation, we simply have to help them tap into it.

687
00:40:48.199 --> 00:40:50.639
As a source of power and then teach them the

688
00:40:50.719 --> 00:40:52.639
tools to harness it effectively.

689
00:40:53.079 --> 00:40:56.480
All right, this is completely off topic, but you talking

690
00:40:56.519 --> 00:40:59.000
about Harvard, and I'm just very curious. I would normally

691
00:40:59.079 --> 00:41:02.159
not is as but like curiosity because I've become fouled

692
00:41:02.320 --> 00:41:05.360
a lot with Arthur Brooks. Do you know him at all?

693
00:41:05.440 --> 00:41:08.719
And I'm just curious on his work with happiness any

694
00:41:08.760 --> 00:41:09.400
thoughts on that.

695
00:41:10.039 --> 00:41:12.880
I don't know him personally, but I really admire his work.

696
00:41:13.079 --> 00:41:15.000
I think we got to ask this question, obviously because

697
00:41:15.039 --> 00:41:17.480
it's part of your next book too, So tell us

698
00:41:17.480 --> 00:41:19.760
a little bit about your thoughts on AI how it

699
00:41:19.800 --> 00:41:22.880
can be used to the benefit of public speakers.

700
00:41:23.480 --> 00:41:28.280
Certainly so. For the past eight years, app developers and

701
00:41:28.440 --> 00:41:31.199
tech entrepreneurs have come to me as they've been building

702
00:41:31.519 --> 00:41:35.840
apps and websites that help people improve their public speaking skills.

703
00:41:35.880 --> 00:41:38.320
And I noticed that more and more of them, we're

704
00:41:38.480 --> 00:41:43.119
using AI to help people improve their clarity, reduce the

705
00:41:43.239 --> 00:41:48.079
use of filler words, and other elements of their persuasive skills.

706
00:41:48.440 --> 00:41:51.159
I've started to think about, let's look beyond what do

707
00:41:51.199 --> 00:41:53.719
I do with my hands and how many filler words

708
00:41:53.760 --> 00:41:58.440
am I using? Could AI actually make us more authentic,

709
00:41:59.000 --> 00:42:02.320
not less. And there's a lot of focus right now,

710
00:42:02.440 --> 00:42:06.760
especially in twenty twenty five, on AI as a tool

711
00:42:06.880 --> 00:42:12.320
to increase productivity, to increase efficiency. But I'm looking at

712
00:42:12.440 --> 00:42:17.920
AI as a way of tapping into our authenticity like

713
00:42:18.119 --> 00:42:22.440
never before. And that's the subject of my new book,

714
00:42:22.679 --> 00:42:25.679
which is called AI for the Authentic Leader, How to

715
00:42:25.719 --> 00:42:30.760
communicate more effectively without losing your humanity. So it's not

716
00:42:30.920 --> 00:42:33.480
about how do I get AI to write my emails

717
00:42:33.519 --> 00:42:36.239
so that my recipient can use AI to read the emails.

718
00:42:36.639 --> 00:42:40.400
It's about how do I use these technical these new

719
00:42:40.440 --> 00:42:45.559
technical tools to bring out the best version of myself

720
00:42:46.159 --> 00:42:51.440
consistently on demand, even when I'm at my worst. Because

721
00:42:51.480 --> 00:42:53.920
a point I make when I talk about authenticity isn't

722
00:42:53.920 --> 00:42:57.840
always a good thing. You can be authentically impatient. I'm

723
00:42:58.199 --> 00:43:01.519
authentically impatient when people waste my time. And that's the

724
00:43:02.000 --> 00:43:04.360
daughter of a New Yorker again, and my father was

725
00:43:04.400 --> 00:43:07.280
a New York City cab driver, so I grew up

726
00:43:07.840 --> 00:43:11.679
with this kind of impatience. I know that's authentic to me,

727
00:43:11.800 --> 00:43:14.639
but that's not me at my best. That doesn't make

728
00:43:14.679 --> 00:43:18.400
me a good leader, And especially for new leaders, it's

729
00:43:18.480 --> 00:43:22.360
critical for them to become aware of where are they

730
00:43:22.519 --> 00:43:28.280
naturally strong and what tendencies of theirs will derail their

731
00:43:28.360 --> 00:43:31.719
leadership effectiveness. And there's no way for us to know

732
00:43:31.800 --> 00:43:36.199
that intrinsically unless we get feedback. And sometimes that feedback

733
00:43:36.599 --> 00:43:41.480
is a negative team or what's it called employee satisfaction

734
00:43:41.719 --> 00:43:44.760
survey that you get from your company's three six stags.

735
00:43:45.000 --> 00:43:48.880
Sometimes it's a difficult conversation with your boss. I believe

736
00:43:49.039 --> 00:43:52.320
AI can serve as a mirror and give us feedback

737
00:43:52.760 --> 00:43:56.199
that helps us bring out the best of us as

738
00:43:56.280 --> 00:44:00.280
opposed to us at our worst, when our emotions take

739
00:44:00.360 --> 00:44:03.199
control and we're not being the best we can be.

740
00:44:03.800 --> 00:44:06.599
It's a new It's a fresh and much needed perspective,

741
00:44:06.599 --> 00:44:07.199
that's for sure.

742
00:44:07.280 --> 00:44:08.519
Coach. You have a final question?

743
00:44:08.599 --> 00:44:11.119
Yeah, I do have one final question because you mentioned

744
00:44:11.119 --> 00:44:13.159
it is something that I've done a lot of studying

745
00:44:13.239 --> 00:44:17.079
in the last decade, so I'm curious what's your thoughts? Yeah,

746
00:44:17.159 --> 00:44:19.719
how do you define it? In what are you teaching about?

747
00:44:19.760 --> 00:44:20.719
Servant leadership?

748
00:44:21.360 --> 00:44:25.519
Servant leadership is such an important concept. I've done a

749
00:44:25.559 --> 00:44:29.400
lot of reading about the topic over the years. There

750
00:44:29.440 --> 00:44:33.480
are great books written on this topic. And if I

751
00:44:33.559 --> 00:44:39.039
define leadership as rallying people together to achieve a shared vision.

752
00:44:39.800 --> 00:44:43.480
I would define servants leadership, which full disclosure, I haven't

753
00:44:43.480 --> 00:44:48.039
really defined before. So this is my knee jerk reaction

754
00:44:48.320 --> 00:44:52.320
in the moment. How do I define servant leadership. It's

755
00:44:52.960 --> 00:44:56.800
rallying people together to achieve a shared goal that is

756
00:44:56.840 --> 00:45:01.920
in everyone's best interest, not to just yours. It's about

757
00:45:01.960 --> 00:45:07.159
acting in service of others of a greater good, as

758
00:45:07.199 --> 00:45:11.559
opposed to rallying people together to achieve your vision, which

759
00:45:11.599 --> 00:45:14.719
is good for you but not in the best interest

760
00:45:15.119 --> 00:45:17.960
of the people that you lead. That's how I would

761
00:45:18.000 --> 00:45:19.880
approach and define servant leadership.

762
00:45:20.480 --> 00:45:24.039
Well said, and Allison, I think there's a lot to

763
00:45:24.559 --> 00:45:28.639
uncover here. We've only scratched the surface. Speak with impact.

764
00:45:29.079 --> 00:45:31.480
You got to get it because you're especially if you're

765
00:45:31.880 --> 00:45:35.320
a young leader. Maybe you just promoted a young leader,

766
00:45:35.320 --> 00:45:37.559
get it for them, or if you are a young leader,

767
00:45:37.599 --> 00:45:40.239
get it for yourself. It's not going to disappoint you

768
00:45:40.280 --> 00:45:43.239
for sure. Also, that new book that you mentioned, where

769
00:45:43.239 --> 00:45:45.079
can we get our hands on that? And then how

770
00:45:45.079 --> 00:45:47.639
can we get more of everything that you do?

771
00:45:48.599 --> 00:45:51.280
I appreciate that the new book AI for the Authentic

772
00:45:51.360 --> 00:45:55.239
Leader is available everywhere books are sold, and you can

773
00:45:55.280 --> 00:45:59.519
find it in retailers and online. I would encourage people

774
00:45:59.679 --> 00:46:03.320
to connect with me on LinkedIn. I'm very active there

775
00:46:03.360 --> 00:46:06.679
and it's a great way to engage in conversation, continue

776
00:46:06.760 --> 00:46:09.519
learning from me, and they can find more information about

777
00:46:09.519 --> 00:46:13.679
the books on my website at Alisonshapira.

778
00:46:12.760 --> 00:46:16.559
Dot allisonshapira dot com links down in the show notes.

779
00:46:16.800 --> 00:46:19.280
You got to check out the Fenway Park performance too,

780
00:46:19.320 --> 00:46:21.000
because that's the first thing I'm going to do as

781
00:46:21.039 --> 00:46:24.639
soon as we get off through the recording alisonshapira dot

782
00:46:24.679 --> 00:46:25.199
com and.

783
00:46:25.360 --> 00:46:27.079
All the links to the books as well.

784
00:46:26.920 --> 00:46:28.920
Down in the show notes. Alison, this was fun. We

785
00:46:29.039 --> 00:46:31.960
learned a lot, and I think the audience has a

786
00:46:32.000 --> 00:46:34.280
lot to take away from your work and more to

787
00:46:34.360 --> 00:46:36.280
come because I know you have a lot of other

788
00:46:36.320 --> 00:46:38.199
stuff to share with them too. So thank you so

789
00:46:38.320 --> 00:46:40.960
much for your time today on the Limitless Leadership Lounge.

790
00:46:40.960 --> 00:46:41.880
We really appreciate it.

791
00:46:42.440 --> 00:46:45.239
My pleasure. Thanks for everything that you're doing to elevate

792
00:46:45.320 --> 00:46:48.039
leaders and leadership. It was a pleasure speaking with you both.

793
00:46:48.559 --> 00:46:51.039
Thank you for joining us this week at the Limitless

794
00:46:51.119 --> 00:46:54.119
Leadership Lounge. To listen to this episode again and to

795
00:46:54.159 --> 00:46:58.079
find previous episodes. Check us out on Apple Podcasts, Spotify,

796
00:46:58.119 --> 00:47:01.119
and Spreader. You can also get in the conversation find

797
00:47:01.159 --> 00:47:03.800
us on Facebook and Instagram, then tell three of your

798
00:47:03.800 --> 00:47:06.920
friends to join in as well. Coach Numa and John.

799
00:47:06.960 --> 00:47:11.000
We'll be back again next week for another trigenerational leadership discussion.

800
00:47:11.280 --> 00:47:16.000
We'll talk to you then on the Limitless Leadership Lounge