Episode 130: Choice, Structure, and the Cost of Getting Education Wrong with Barry Schwartz
🎙️ Episode 130: Barry Schwartz
Choice, Structure, and the Cost of Getting Education Wrong
In Episode 130 of Schurtz & Ties, we are joined by Barry Schwartz, renowned psychologist and author whose work has shaped how we think about motivation, choice, and meaning for decades.
This conversation moves well beyond soundbites. We dig into why incentives often undermine learning, how too much choice fuels anxiety rather than freedom, and why structure is not the enemy of autonomy but its prerequisite. Barry challenges the assumption that motivation comes from rewards, arguing instead that learning must carry its own meaning if it’s going to last.
Together, we explore:
Why incentives in schools often function as band-aids rather than solutions
How excessive choice erodes engagement and increases anxiety
The danger of mistaking “intrinsic motivation” for entertainment
Why sustained attention is a muscle that must be built, not bypassed
How freedom without structure leads to intellectual anarchy
Why education is always values-driven, whether we admit it or not
What happens when schools prioritize credentials over understanding
Why knowing the student matters more than perfect systems
Barry also reflects on parenting, higher education, burnout, privatization, and the growing suspicion embedded in modern institutions. The throughline is clear: education is about building people, not managing systems.
This episode is for educators, parents, leaders, and anyone wrestling with the tension between structure and autonomy in a world that wants simple answers to complex problems.
Listen now and join the conversation: https://www.schurtzandties.com
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