Building Relationships, Communication, and the Foundations of Instructional Coaching with Ashley Hubner

What's going on everybody? I hope this finds you striving and thriving and doing absolutely amazing. My name is Brian Martin. I'm a second grade teacher and hosted the teaching champions podcast. And today's guest is Ashley Hubner, and she's a pretty special person. She's an instructional coach, and curriculum specialist who's served in many roles in education, from an elementary school teacher to curriculum lead. She served 13 years in the public school system. And then she transitioned into an educational consultant role, where she's worked with curriculum companies to build quality educational experiences for students, and with school districts to build instructional capacity among staff. And in this conversation, listen to how she uses a curiosity mindset to build relationships. Think about how she talks about communication being purposeful and intentional, how she talks about the importance of collaboration and connections, and so much more. Ashley drops a ton of gems in this one. And I hope you enjoy this conversation as much as I did. I am super excited to welcome Ashley Hubner, to the teaching champions podcast. Ashley, welcome to the show. Thank you. I'm excited to be here. And we're excited to have you and it is a big week, Ashley published her first book. So we can't stop or start the show, excuse me without saying congratulations for that. Thank you so much. It has been such a journey. And I know we're going to talk about it a little bit later. But I am extremely proud right now and so excited to have my book out there should be proud. I mean, that is a phenomenal accomplishment. Now for the listeners who don't know who you are, could you share with us your journey? Yeah, so my name is Ashley Hubner. I'm originally from East Texas. I graduated college and went straight into teaching, like most teachers do. I was a young and novice teacher. I had one principal that year that decided to give me a chance in a urban school district right south of Dallas, Texas. At that time, it was a little bit harder finding teaching jobs than it is now a little bit more competitive in and they didn't want to hire new teachers. So I was lucky. He gave me a chance bit, five years teaching under him and second grade and third grade and fell in love with curriculum instruction. And I went back to get my master's degree, and then worked as a math interventionist for one year, which kind of led me into instructional coaching unintentionally, because I was working with teachers on intervention strategies for their students and that stuff. And then we moved to my family, we I got married, we moved to Rockwall, Texas, and I started there as an instructional coach. And that's where I spent the majority of my time. Until last year, we moved to Florida, and I kind of went out on my own starting my own consulting and coaching business called Access coaching and consulting. And that's really what led me to write my book that we'll talk about later. But I just really have a passion for instructional coaching and working with teachers, and really helping them build their practice of teaching in the classroom and building their craft and, and just being the best teacher that they can be. So little bit about me. Yeah, no, that's great. And the instructional coach is so important. I'm a sports guy. So I've been around sports my whole life. I coached or was an assistant coach for varsity basketball team. So we will go around and we will watch these Division One teams and you hear all these stories and athletes that are paid millions of dollars. They're getting coaching all the time. And then one of my favorite guys, I don't know if you know who he is. His name is Marshall Goldsmith. He's a pretty famous coach as a couple of books out there. But he coaches top level CEOs, he only works with the satellite that point one top percent. And so I look at it and you see pro athletes that make millions of dollars are getting coaching. You look at these top CEOs that are getting, you know, they have unbelievable contracts. They're getting coaching teachers, we need to be coached up as well. And so your role is so huge. And I just want to ask you like, from the beginning of your career, when you step out of the classroom and you go into instructional coaching, what have you learned along your way, because that that growth curve from the beginning to where you're at now is huge. So what are some of the takeaways that you've taken? So I'll say, first, when you first leave the classroom, and you step into a role that is more of a leadership position, your eyes are so opened to the inner workings of the campus and the district and things that you didn't even know before. One of the things I like to say is that what happened inside my four walls wasn't the same thing happening and everybody else's four walls. And you don't really know that until you get out and get moving around. And I think sometimes, that's a big perspective shift that teachers need to because they need to understand the big picture and how their impact impacts the whole campus. And they may not know what impact they're making, until they kind of have the big picture of everything else that's going on. But I think I'm also true to my heart, I'm a problem solver. And so when I first came out of the classroom and started noticing things and seeing things around the campus, I felt this burden that I had to be the fixer, like I had to be the one to fix everybody's problems, and, and do whatever I could, I was running around putting out fires, and trying solo to fix all these problems. And so what I learned is that you can't do that. I mean, you cannot work in isolation, you cannot work by yourself, like a leadership team has to be together like close knit. So I really leaned on my administrators and and my teachers, and learn how to work together and collaborate together to really push that change or, you know, Coach up the teachers that need coaching in and not try to do it just all on my own. So I think you have to figure out your coaching capacity so that you can help build teachers knowledge and their growth in their own efforts, you know, and build that relationship with them, so that they can move forward also. So it was just it was a very different mindset going in than a mindset I have now about what instructional coaching looks like. That's excellent. I love what you talked about the perspective, because perspective is huge. And when you're in the four walls of the classroom, that's all you see. So that big picture thinking and understanding that there's so much out there within our school that gets affected by what we do. And I also love how you talked about like that togetherness, that collaboration between each other, whether it's the teachers and the instructional coach, the teachers in the administrator like we're all a team, and it's not us versus the administration. It's we're working together to provide the best services for our students. So I think one of the most important things for an instructional coach is building those relationships, that there's so key. And it's not easy being a instructional coach, because sometimes there's some resistance, there's some pushback, what have you learned as far as building relationships with the educators? So one of the things I've learned over the years that the easiest way to build relationships with teachers, and really have them trust you is to approach every situation with empathy for them and their situation that they're in. And when you go into those conversations, I tried to follow Jim Knight's advice on being very curious and having that curiosity mindset, and that I am asking questions to really dig to the deeper why the deeper issue, what is going on, I'm trying to understand the situation, so that I can help and that so that I can coach, but really getting to the heart of whatever's going on, which takes a lot of listening. So you have to listen as a coach, but letting them express themselves and share and tell their story before you already know what their story is in your head and what you think you're going to tell them, giving them the opportunity and the space to share that my sister and green published in one of their business books together something that's called the trust equation. And I think this really kind of sums up what a coach kind of has to do to gain that trust from teachers. And what they talk about is that it takes credibility, so showing teachers that you have the knowledge and that you can help them and that you're credible in whatever that you're going to be talking with them about reliability, so that you are consistently showing them that you are reliable, you're going to be there for them, you're gonna support them when they need it. And then intimacy, which comes to that, that relationship piece, and having almost like a call league friendship with them, that so that they can trust you. But then they all have this, they divide by self orientation. And the reason that that is divided by self orientation is because you have to take yourself out of it, you don't want anybody to ever think that you're doing things for your motives, and your intentions. And so they say that this is kind of the secret formula to build trust in the business world. But I think it is also very evident or very consistent with what happens in the school system. And so I think that when you really get to know your teachers, and you build those relationships, you have those conversations, whether they're easy or hard, I have grown so much deeper in relationships at work, when we had the hard conversations because of what we came out on the outside of it. But once you have built that foundation, then you can support them mentally, you know, if they need it, you can support them academically, and, and really give them what they need to be the best teacher that they can be. I love that. And I love that trust equation that you were talking about the credibility, the reliability, and the intimacy. And I think that's something, you know, you come from a coaching perspective. So you're trying to make those connections with the teachers, I think, you know, if you're an educated listening to this, we should be writing that down. Because we're trying to build that trust with our students. We're trying to build that trust with the parents, that we're one big team, showing that credibility that reliability, that intimacy is huge. And now, can I jump in there a minute, I want to say something about that, because I always, as a teacher in the classroom felt like it was so important to build a relationship with parents, like you just touched on and having them on your side to partner with them to support their child. And this, this trust equation goes without exactly as a mother, who has children in the school system. I would say that this year has been the best year for my kiddos because of the communication that I have received from the teachers compared to other years where I barely heard anything all year long. And it can be as short as they use Class Dojo. So I don't know, people out there know what that is, but I love Class Dojo, but I mean, once a week, just sending me a little message saying he had a great week. I like just anything like that, just to know that they see my kid and and that they're communicating with me, helps me as a parent, trust the teacher. So I think that communication is a is a big deal. And all of those aspects 100%. And so I try and send home, our weekly newsletter on our app that we have for our school. And I always say at the end of it, you know, I say, We're a team. And if you have any problems, please contact me right away so that we can take care of it because we wanted this to be the best year for you. We want this to be the best year for that child. So that open dialogue. And like you said, sharing that the small moments, a funny moment for me this week. I'll share it real quick. It actually happened yesterday. So I teach second grade got some rock stars. So without knowing the students is hard to visualize, but I got this one little guy. And he comes up to me. And he goes, Mr. Martin, he goes, my favorite music is rock. I said, That's awesome. And so I bending down to crack some papers and he comes up to me, he goes don't know my second type of favorite music. And I said, What's that? You go yodeling. And he started rolling in my ear. little guy's a character was pretty awesome. But I saw his dad, I go out walking at lunchtime. And I saw as this dad was doing little construction work. So I stopped. And I just shared that moment with dad. So like you said, reaching out the parents as a mom, your teacher reach out just and hey, your child had a good week. I think that that's huge. Now, I think as an instructional coach, that you have to be top notch to that communication level and communication at every position, whether it's teachers or administrators, instructional coaches is huge. So can you give us any tips about how to be a more effective communicator or Just what's worked for you, and communication? So what I've learned over the years, that as purposeful and intentional, as we are in writing our lesson plans and, you know, writing or daily objectives, you have to be that way with communication with a staff. And so I always consider who is my audience? And what is my message? And what is the place that this is going to happen? Because every mode of communication that someone can have thrown at them can all be different. And you have to decipher whether this message is a message that needs to be made face to face in a conversation, or is this something I can send an email, if it's something that's an email I've learned, if you have more than three bullets, they're not reading it. So like, I always try to be clear and concise in my emails, I saved my emails for either it was like, something I needed at a later time that didn't have a time expectancy on it. Or it was some information that I could share without having to have a meeting over it. And so that's kind of what I use my emails and my newsletters for, and I tried to make it as clear and concise as possible. I'm one of those people who I reread my emails five times before I send them, because I'm trying to make sure it doesn't make sense. You know, and then check it on the spelling and grammar too. But I always try to think if I don't have the same background knowledge, as I do right now, will I understand what this says? So looking at it through that perspective, I think as far as communication when you're in a coaching conversation, it has to be very authentic. And like I said, I'll always go in with an open mindset, that curious mind to really question to drive the drive the conversation. And then when we are, you know, talking through the coaching goals, and what our next steps are, I always try to make sure that those items are attainable. So through that conversation, I want to make sure that I'm giving clear, concise direction, you know, I can, I want to reiterate and make sure that we're all on the same page, but also when it gives space for that dialogue, so that the teacher has input and can communicate back and so that we leave with a collaborative goal together and on are on the same page. I, sometimes coaches, curriculum coordinators, or whoever they are talking to teachers can get all wrapped up in the research or the lingo. And sometimes that is not attainable for a teacher in that moment, you know, with all of the other things that are having to think about and worry about. So what is the easiest way for me to explain this, so that we can move forward? I think really just you have to know your audience, you have to know your message, and then pick a mode that best services that I think that's great. And, you know, sometimes we just go in, we try and give our message right away without considering those different things. And like, like you said, different ways, different modes, different audiences require different things. So powerful. And I just want to step back for a second, when you were talking about those hard conversations that instructional coaches have to have, like, is there anything that you've done to defuse those situations? Or made it easier? Would it be just being open and curious? I think, yeah, I mean, I, I've let people scream at me cry at me, stomp around my room, and I just, I just sit and I wait, and I, I let them have their moments, I let them get it out. If they need to word vomit, if they need to cry, you know, whatever it is, I let them get it out. If it's directed at me, my first response is what can I do to fix this? You know, what, what, what happened? And I think those a lot of the hard conversations really had nothing to do with me, it was something else going on, maybe they were upset with a parent or something happened with a student in the classroom, or you administration is come down with a new mandate, and it's just sometimes emotionally up and down for teachers when all those things are being thrown at them all the time. And so then sometimes you get the brunt of it, or it gets taken out on you. So I think just giving them that space to release and and do what they need to do. I have had teachers who have like flat out told me before I'm not doing that. And it was like, you know, something that your administration has like asked you to go coach teachers on and so I again, it goes back to my curious conversations, okay, why? Why are you not doing that and then and through the conversation. So in my book, I think I talked about the five why's I kind of just keep on asking why. And so I get down to the real answer of it. And I listened to I know I'm gonna plug podcasts in later. But I listened to the latest one Aspire by Joshua Stu Seyfert. With Jeff Vargas, they were talking about how teachers may not want to do something because it comes and goes. So like, you know, your ministration has just sent it down a new mandate, you need to go tell the teachers, they have to do this. And they don't want to do it, because next year is gonna go away. Why am I going to do it? So then it's trying to figure out okay, well, how can we show that show you that this is similar to what you're already doing in the classroom? Or we're just going to tweak it this way? Or how do we show you this isn't something that's going away? So once you get to that, why of why they're being reluctant? Or why this conversation is going a lot harder than you thought it would go, then you can begin to problem solve, and start to move past it. No, I love that I love the five why's because, you know, I'm listening to you speak. And I'm thinking as a teacher, and sometimes as educators, we have to have tough conversations, whether it's with other colleagues, whether it's with a parent, and stepping back and not taking it personally, like you said, leading with that curiosity, the why? What's throwing them off? We had a secretary just retired and the secretaries are so huge. And she was absolutely amazing. You know, I asked her, because she was always so positive, and how she dealt with because they're the first line, they're getting the conversations with the parents right off the bat. And she goes, sometimes you just people just want to be heard. And sometimes if you're just there, and you listen, and you hear what they say, right there that can defuse a situation. Right. So yeah, I love everything that you just said there. Another thing that you talk a lot about in your book, and I know that you're really passionate about is that collaboration versus isolation. Can you elaborate on that a little bit? Yeah. And I think my eyes really opened up to even a broader spectrum of collaboration when I became in the consulting role. Because we talk about collaboration a lot. We talk about collaborations, as a teacher, we try to get our students to collaborate, we, we talk about collaboration, from the administrative standpoint, trying to get our teachers to collaborate. And there's a lot of talk of it. But then it's like, when does it really happen? When is the time there. And then, also, when we're only stuck collaborating with the few people in our grade level on our team, or the few teachers on our campus, or we're only doing what our district has vision, and that's the only we're only club collaborating under those parameters. I think it creates a world of isolation. One of the things that I've learned now, being in this new space is how much more I have learned coming out of the school district and being in a space where I talk with podcasters. And I talk with school districts in other states, worked with clients in, you know, Jewish Jewish community in New York, to Australia to North Carolina, I mean, and some of the same problems that happened within every campus or happened, you know, nationally. But then I've been able to see all the different ways people are overcoming these issues or problem solving this issues or creating new things to alleviate a problem. And I just wish that more school leaders would come into this space of listening to podcast or, you know, attending virtual conferences that are nationwide, because there's so much more collaboration that could be happening. And some of these conversations I've had, with educators all over the world have, like, led me to believe that we could, we could really create so much change, if we would all unite together and quit trying to do things just in our pockets. And I think you know, it's the same thing, having the teacher perspective, when you are trying to solve the problems in your classroom. And then you become out of the classroom, you're trying to solve the problems of the campus. And then you come out on campus, you're at the district level, you're trying to solve problems and you don't see the other problems and you don't see the other solutions. So I just think that there is so much more collaboration that could be had and and I hope that that continues to grow. I think by like you having these podcasts and like I said, the virtual trainings and all of those things that are out there, the conferences that we could go to. And they're coming back because COVID is going out slowly dying down. So they're coming back then person ones. So I just think that there is a world out there where we can all learn so much from each other. Yeah, 100%. And through social media podcasts, that there are so many great people out there, it's amazing and things that I love, like doing this podcast I get to talk to you get fantastic ideas from you, a woman that I talked to, and all the guests have been phenomenal. But this one, I really loved Melissa Hayes, because she's a second grade teacher. So I follow her a lot on Twitter, and she's always posting stuff up on Twitter of things that she's doing in the classroom. And while we're not having that conversation, I'm watching what she's doing. And it's unbelievable. So there's great educators out there. And like you said, we get trapped, sometimes we get sucked in. And also, not every campus. So I don't want to speak for every campus. Sometimes maybe ego, we don't want to look like we're not good. So we get self conscious maybe of bouncing the ideas off of educators within our own school like we could. So if we look outside the classroom walls, I think that expands it as well. Yeah, I also want to say like Facebook groups are really good. I have a, I have a Facebook group, and I'm in it several instructional coaching ones. And there's people all over the world. And they're like, you know, coaches from Hawaii, Alaska. And it's just great to learn from each other. One of the things I did when I was a coach, and I had a newsletter, I was I was trying to push this idea of collaboration outside of our own campus. And I would do twit, Twitter highlights. And so I followed educators all across the district or in other districts, and I would like you said, you see great things that people are doing. And I would take a snippet of the tweet the tweet and drop it in my newsletter. So just to try to share ideas like these things I saw, I'm not in the classroom anymore, but maybe you could do them. You know, I'm just trying to share that that collaboration. Yeah. No, that's fantastic. I also love like, we were talking about your book before we pressed record here. And that piece about, you've done a lot of virtual coaching right now. So can you tell everybody a little bit quick about virtually coaching and how you've seen that help educators out? Yeah, um, I really, I thought it would be difficult at first because you don't get the in person relationship that that I was so used to. I did build relationships with every teacher, I coached virtually, by you know, by the end of the coaching partnership, but it's a little bit different. I think one of the the pros is that you are not on the campus with them. So you don't get caught up in the bureaucracy of everything, the politics of what's going on in the district, you're kind of an outside perspective, I think a lot of the teachers appreciated that, that I only saw them and their students, I didn't see the rest of what's going on. And so whatever I had to say to them was just relevant to them and who they were as a teacher, and how they could, you know, support their students in the classroom. So it was also I felt like very time efficient. I know, teachers have tons of other things to do, they have other meetings to go to, they're trying to write lesson plans, but through the virtual coaching, they would send they were recorded lesson and they would send it to me, I would watch it on my own time. And then we would meet virtually for like 30 minutes, and have a coaching conversation. And then they would implement or try whatever we talked about record themselves again, send it to me, and we'd have a coaching conversation. And it was just a cycle that was just like that. And initially the first meeting, you know, upfront, I let them know like, I'm not here to like be a no at all or tell you exactly what to do. I'm here to be your cheerleader. I'm here to help support you throughout the school year. When this was going on a lot of the campuses I was working with were either still having students quarantined or they were trying to balance both remote instruction and and personal restriction. So I knew there was a lot going on and and so I was like, I'm just here to help you with what you want help on. And so a lot of them in that first meeting would just say okay, well these are the things I want to work on. So I said okay, let's the videotape that time of your day, then videotape that send it to me and let me see and let's talk about it. And so it was very authentic coaching because it was catered to their needs. And there were a couple because they had they filled out a little survey before they did it and they had to, you know, share their feelings about it. There were a couple who did not want to do it that felt like they were made to do it by the administrator. But by the end of it, I think they were fine because they realized it wasn't like what they expected. So that's one of those other things that you kind of have to know when you're getting to know your teachers is a good question asked, like, what's your past experience with instructional coaches, because if they've had a bad one, and you're the next person up, that could be why they're resistant or reluctant to you. I have one that was not even a teacher, she was a librarian. And I honestly don't know why. They, they made her have a coaching partnership with me. But we found great things to do. Like, we implemented four corners to you know, to build some social emotional, so she would put some questions up, like what type of candy, do candy do you like and find a corner and talk with their friend. And we did like some turn in talks and just different instructional strategies that you'll use for instruction, but like in in the library, and she ended up loving it. And so it turned out to be great. So yeah, it ended up being a very good experience. And I still have connections with all those teachers that are Facebook friends, some of them are my Facebook groups, and I hope they're still doing great. You know, but yeah, it's different. But it's, I think it went well. Yeah, no, and I think that's fantastic. And bringing it back, you know, I referenced the basketball, whether it was division one or NBA, look at the NFL, the game film, so the video recordings that they're sending you is like game film, all these high level business or, you know, sports teams, they're watching that game film, breaking it down, seeing how they can improve, and then working to improve upon that. And that's kind of what you're talking about right there. And it's, it is uncomfortable, like thinking about taping yourself, but when you know that the person on the other side is just there not to judge but to help. And, you know, obviously, you've shown that with your people that that's, that's huge. I would say 99% of them never watched the video either. Like they would just send it to me, they never watched it. And it would be funny, because in coaching meetings, I would say, well, you remember when you did did it? And they're like, Nope, because I tell I tell them to I'm like, I want authentic you and your classroom. I know that every day in the classroom is not perfect. You might have Billy over there screaming and crying for 30 minutes while you're recording. That's happened sometimes. So let's just go with it. If that's an issue that they will talk about, okay, how could we have alleviated that situation? Like what was going on over there? So just be you. And I think that made them feel more comfortable knowing that I'm not looking for perfection at all. I'm looking for you, and what is your day to day look like? And how can I help you with your day to day? Yeah, that that leading with that message I'm here to help you is is so huge, no matter what role we have. Awesome. So let's talk about this book that you just published this week. So could you tell the listeners a little bit about your book, Ashley? Yes. So my book is it's kind of like a guide for instructional coaches. It's called Foundations of instructional coaching, impact people improve instruction and increase success. And the my book really kind of highlights some of the major stories that I had as an instructional coach, along my journey of working in the public school system, doing that coaching role for over seven years, and how I navigated through those situations, what I learned along the way, things that I created to help me be more efficient in my coaching. And so through my stories and what I went through, I share my advice. And there's also a free downloadable resources in the book where you can get many of the coaching things that I've created along the years to help me be an effective coach. But I talked about everything from the building relationships, dealing with the reluctant teachers, to leading professional development, leading PLCs, all of those things that we do as instructional leaders. Yeah. And there's a lot of snippets that it from an educators point of view that I can pull away and put into my classroom. So that's awesome. And congratulations. Thank you. Now, how about one of my favorite questions I asked everybody because I'm a book nerd. And a podcast junkie. Is there any books or podcasts that you would recommend to listeners? So I have quite a list. I will say so. First of all, I love the hacking school series. Anything by hacking school, hacking school discipline, hacking school culture, they have tons of books, they are all fabulous. I have not not read one and didn't get something out of it. My second would be anything by Todd Whitaker. He is one of my favorites. He has the what makes teachers great are great teachers. something and then he has the same thing for administrators, fabulous books. One of my favorites for being an instructional coach that really kind of helped me is called lemons to lemonade. And it's resolving problems and meetings, workshops and PLCs. So that's kind of where I first started getting my thoughts on how to deal with these combative problems that you might come across in that role. And so it was a really good book to kind of help me start like thinking about that and wrapping my head around that as I became a new instructional coach. So I definitely recommend that one too. As far as podcast goes, I mentioned Aspire earlier with Joshua Stanford, leaning into leadership with Darren peppered, who was my publisher. Also, he is amazing and great for leadership advice. For instructional coaches, I would say bright morning with Lena Aguilar. And then so the hacking schools also has a podcast called PAC learning with Mark Barnes, so their podcasts are really good to excellent, some great ones right there. My principal, his favorite authors, Todd Whitaker, and definitely love Darren leaning in the leadership. He's, he does a phenomenal job. Thank you for the recommendations. Now, how can the listeners get in touch with you? I'm on Twitter, Instagram. I believe both of those are at coaching. Underscore access. I have Facebook group also at coaching access. So any of those ways they can get a hold of me, my website is coaching access.net. So they can find me there. All my socials are there too, and my contact form. So that would probably be the easiest way. Excellent. And if you could have the listener walk away with one thing from this episode, what would that be? So I want to share like, my favorite motto is in my book, too. But I it's something I hold I try to hold true to myself. And I think it would be good advice for any educator. But I like to the think of myself as a sunflower. So the quote says in a crowd of roses, choose to be a sunflower thornless on withering and abundant and seeds. Because I always want to be the one who is thornless, I'm not going to have the daggers I'm here to help you and support you. And on weathering, I'm going to be strong. And I'm going to do the best that I can. And I want to always be planting those seeds for educators. One of the things I like to tell all the teachers I work with and the coaches I work with to tell their teachers is there's a graphic that I like to show them that says it's different varieties of you doing your best and it's it's like a mountaintop going up and going down and going back up. And you're doing your best is that a different moment every day, depending on what your circumstances are and what is given to you. So what I like to say is all we can do is to try to do our best, and try to be a sunflower. Ha so good. I haven't heard that before. I love that. I love that sunflower reference, actually, thank you so much for coming on the teaching champions podcast. Great week for you. As far as I hope you find some time this weekend to celebrate the launch of your book. You're doing phenomenal things. And you're making a difference for a lot of people. And we appreciate you. So thank you for being here today, my friend. Thank you so much. It was a pleasure to be here. And thank you for letting me come here. Oh, absolutely. This was such a fun conversation with Ashley and she gave away so many fantastic takeaways. Now this is a teaching champions tape, where I give you three of my favorite takeaways from our conversation. And the first thing that I really appreciated was when Ashley was talking about laying that foundation in relationships and building them up. And she talked about three keys that we really need to focus on. She said, being credible, being reliable, and showing intimacy, that vulnerability piece. And no matter what position you hope, one of the most important things that we do is build relationships. So it's good for us to check in on ourselves and really think are we being credible? Are we being reliable? Are we being vulnerable to those who serve in a second gem that actually dropped was the five why's having those hard conversations is never easy. And sometimes people Just need to be heard. So approaching a conversation with a curiosity mindset, and exploring what is making people feeling this way, asking them why is all about listening? Is there an understanding, someone might be upset. And it might not be about you that there's so many other factors involved. And the only way we may be able to discover that is if we stop. And if we listen. And the third gem that I really appreciated was when Ashley talked about communication, and she's mentioned that we're purposeful in the way that we design our lessons. But often, we're not purposeful in how we communicate. And before we communicate with someone, we should ask, who is my audience? What is the message? And where would the best place for this message be delivered? And that's something that all of us should be thinking about. And these are just a few of my favorite gems. And there's so many though, so be sure to hit me up on social media at Bheema unreal on Twitter, and let me know what were a few of your favorites. And a big thank you to Ashley, be sure to check out her new book foundations and instructional coaching. I'm gonna leave the link in the show notes. And thank you to all of you for being here. For being part of the teaching champions community. We support, we encourage we lift each other up. And if you think someone would benefit from this message, please pass it on. It's all about trying to uplift others. And always remember, whether you're from rural America, to urban America, to Canada, to Spain to Bahrain, we're all on that same team. We're all on that same mission. And we're always better together. Keep being amazing, my friends, and as you go out into the week, May step into your strength may step into shine, and let's build our champions. Have a great week, everybody