Curiosity, Hope, and Improving School Mental Health with Charle Peck

What's going on everybody, I hope this finds you striving and thriving and doing absolutely amazing. This episode is a good one for you, my friends. Today, it's all about improving school mental health, for our students and for our staff. And if you think someone would benefit from this conversation, please share. And don't forget to subscribe to the podcast. So New episodes come directly to you. Now, my guest today is Charlie pack. And Charlie's the co founder of a revolutionary Behavioral Health Program, where she's partnering with school districts to improve the well being of both staff and students. And she has over 20 years of education and mental health leadership experience. And this has given her a unique lens of a seasoned teacher, and a licensed therapist. And their clinical work and trauma and crisis intervention gives her clear insight to truly understand our fractured mental health system. And then this conversation list, as Charlie talks about looking inside of ourselves, and having strategies that we can use to help step out of guilt, pain and shame. Listen, as she talks about our circle of control, and the power of the words that we use, listeners, she talks about the needs to be curious and ask questions, listening. She talks about creating healthy relationships, and so much more. I hope you enjoy this conversation as much as I did. I am super excited for this episode, because we have someone that is absolutely amazing. Someone who is a specialist in improving school mental health. I want to welcome Charlie pet to the teaching champions podcast. Welcome, Charlie. Hey, how you doing? I'm so glad to be here, Brian. Yeah. And I'm so thankful that you're here to my friend. For those listeners that aren't familiar with who you are. Could you please give them a little background? Yeah. So I'm Charlie Peck. I've been in education for over 20 years. And I spent most of that time 18 years actually teaching high school. And so I saw so many of my students, Brian, oh, my gosh, they were really struggling with mental health. And they approached me and I actually got to teach about mental health. So I was like, we got to do something different, right. And so I decided long story short to step out of teaching, the education route, like leadership that way, and I got into health leadership, and became a licensed therapist so they could really understand what's going on. So right now, what I've done is I have a company with I do prep professional development based on a book that I wrote with my partner, Dr. Kam. And we have a framework of teaching skills that we created so that we don't have to add to teachers workloads and educator educators workloads. But I know we're gonna dive into that more. But that's what I'm doing. And I'm speaking a lot. So I'm excited about what I'm doing. Yeah, I've seen like the posts, and I've listened to the podcast that you've been on, and you just bring so much now, being in the classroom for so long. What were you seeing, especially you were there through the COVID years? What were some of the things that you were seeing while you were there? Yeah. And people know that there were problems? Well, before COVID, everybody knows that. It just we got to unsettle that when COVID came. What I was saying is I want you to think about that student who like when you're sitting at your desk, this happened to me so often, I'm sitting at my desk, getting ready for my next class to start kind of shuffling through my notes. And I look up and I would see my student Ryan. So this is one of my times where I was something shifted in my head here. And Ryan was standing in front of me, and this was a kid, he usually had it together. But I can tell something was off Brian. And so I said, Hey, what's going on? And he said, Well, can I talk to you? And I definitely did not have any time I had 30 students that were about to walk into that classroom, right? Well, no, that's like, and so I said, Can you go talk to the school social worker, and he said, but you're the only one I trust. And I was like, wow, these kids are trusting their teachers. They're building relationships with their teachers, and there wasn't a lot of mental health support in our schools and in our communities. Even now, it's a big problem. Right? So absolutely. You know, I mean, there's tons of waitlist and kids are still struggling to get in. So those were the kinds of things I was seeing. I was also seeing a lot of teachers struggling with their students and behaviors and I will tell you I initially did too. I initially was tried to like take control of my classroom, I was trying to be in charge. But I learned that when there was a student, and we'll call her Maddie there was not her name when there was a student in my class who kept getting up out of my class without signing out without permission, and would be gone for a while. And then I got called to the principal's office, and the principal came down on me and said, Just let her leave. Just let her go when she wants to go. I'm like, What are you doing? But I did it. I complied. The semester was like that I was frustrated with her. So the next semester, I wanted to go make amends with her, Brian and looking for after school, I couldn't find her. I knew where she usually went. And I was talking to my school counselor, and my school counselor said, well, Maddie just passed away. And I was devastated. Because she had actually had a terminal illness sitting in my classroom. Nobody told me, nobody told me. Again, there's a lot of examples I could use. But there's a lot of us teachers, every single one of us has a kid or several kids, or many kids sitting in our classroom, especially now who's struggling with something we'll never know about. And so the way I started responding to kids was became different. And so I became skilled over years, so that I could be different because it came down to me. Yes, that's fantastic. One thing that I always say is like, we don't know, what's going on in anybody's lives really, like we only see that like that surface level. And there's so much underneath it. And it's not just like the students, it's the staff members, too. Yeah, well, that's what I heard a lot. When I started taking on some leadership in mental health in our school district, I had so many staff members coming to me and saying, Well, what about what about us? Like, what about us, and we were struggling, I was struggling, there were times I was struggling, and there wasn't an outlet. And so some of that actually came back to some of the leadership changes, too. So you know, staff has to change with leadership, too. Absolutely. And there's micromanaging involved, it can really like, just squash your, your, your dreams of doing the things you want to do, really, you ever had experience with somebody micromanaging and leadership before? Yes, yes. Yeah. It's a tough situation. Sometimes. I know. But we can rise above it. It's just, there's a lot that that school culture either allows you to do or not. But again, ultimately, it does come back to us we get to make choices around that. Yes, 100%. And I think that's a good leeway right into your book. I'm improving school mental health. Can you tell us a little bit about like the framework and everything that you're putting out in that book? Yeah. Well, I remember being in PD sessions with, like, therapists or social workers, who were great. They were very passionate about what they did they very knowledgeable. But they were trying to teach us how to do certain strategies without knowing what a teacher's experience was like. And there are a lot of us doing AI roles. And I loved it, because I was teaching this stuff already. But if you don't teach it, and you don't get it, you're not capturing them if you don't understand what's going on in their classrooms, right. And so one of the things I thought about is, how in the world do we simplify this in such a way where we're not adding to our workload? Because we're all stressed and overwhelmed? And how do we simplify it and integrate it into everything we're doing? But it has to make sense. So part of the reason I became a therapist is so I can understand like, what are those strategies? What, how can we do that? So what I've done now is in with my partner, Dr. Ken, we took something like a 25 page paper, synthesize it down to one paragraph, and that became, that became a skill that teachers could leave our training with, and implement it in their daily life, immediately, it has to be immediate, because we need relief. So anyway, the framework is the book of the nine skills instead of a big overhaul program. You can keep whatever programs you want, whatever's working for you, we say, keep it and then let these integrate right into what you're doing in daily practice. That's the idea. Yeah, I love that. And I love how you talked about it has to be immediate, something that we can integrate right away. Now, what are those nine skills? Just? Yeah, yeah. So we, and by the way, they're all evidence based. And they're all everything we do in practice, and have done in practice, but they are skills that they're there's kind of three ways we looked at it, we said, we have to be able to look out for our own mental health and wellness. And so three of the skill the first three skills are about doing that. Like the first one. For example, we just did a two day PD session and spent an entire morning just learning about self compassion. Well, what are our insecurities? And how is that showing up in everything that we're doing and in our choices, and how is that impeding us from doing the work we'd love to do even in these stressful times. And we believe we can overcome all of this. So those kinds of skills, there's a few of those skills and then the next set skills are called Aloe skills. So Aloe is other. And so what we have to do as human beings is learn to step outside of ourselves and look out for the other person. And I think educators try to do this, but they are so boggled down with, again, things within themselves things that they're frustrated with that they can't unload. But we do need to learn how to respond more effectively to other people, a lot of that stress is coming from being ill equipped to manage student behavior. Yes, right. And so we're all reacting. So we teach about three skills to help like social plasticity, you and I were talking about this before we record. It's about being adaptable and understanding, okay, what assumption is coming up for me right now, in this moment, it's going to happen, our brain is doing that to make a shortcut. So we're not going to change that yet. Maybe we'll adapt and evolve later. But just notice that so we teach people, how do you just notice that? And then what can you do? How can you use these tools to address that? And then the last three set of skills is about how do we protect the relationship and ourselves within a relationship. So I know there's a lot there. But we structured it that way, for a reason to protect, to connect, and to resolve issues. I love that now. So let's talk about self compassion. And let's dive in a little bit. Because I think, you know, that self compassion, and I was just talking about this on a previous podcast, we will say things to ourselves, that we wouldn't say to any other person out, there we go. And we show up at school. And I think every educator and I know just talking to you that when you are in the classroom, or when you're doing the PD, you're great at it, building other people up. So we build other people up. But when we look in the mirror, so easy to tear ourselves down. So yeah, so what are some things that that you see that are most beneficial, like the help of that self compassion and show ourselves grace? Yeah, I mean, that is so important. It really starts there. That's why it's the first one. It's about learning to understand that we have these internal and external influences all the time, we grew up with them. And we carry them into our classrooms and into our families and relationships all the time. And so self compassion is just knowing who you are right now in this moment. And being okay with that is the only way that you're going to get unstuck. And so when we're stuck in that guilt, pain and shame of all the stuff that's been dumped on us on that, like we've we've dumped on ourselves, especially oh my gosh, I did that as a mother. And I'm still I'm still working on that. But I've unloaded so much. And there's there's freedom in that. But we do have there's technique around it. Like there's a lot of therapeutic technique I do with trauma patients of mine. And I actually pull in some of that trauma work that I do, but only in a way, the teachers don't have to be there. Like they don't have to be therapists, but they can implement it into their day. And they do it in such a way like understanding that what I've done doesn't mean that's who I am. And I can move on. So for example, if I decided to laze around and watch Netflix, I might have been lazy in that moment, it might have been a lazy experience. But that doesn't mean I'm lazy. Or I might have told a lie. But that doesn't mean I'm a liar. We've all made mistakes. So we've got to we get to make choices of how to move on from that. And if you don't want to feel that way, then you have choice and moving out of that and not doing those things. Yes, but we've got to, we've got to go through the process of kind of forgiveness and relief. And again, we take you through that. But another piece of that is getting out of that wheel of self defeat. We want to move you out of that. And so there's some some great simple strategies we can do every day. And we can notice that when they're showing up for us while we're teaching, for example, to take a break and there's a way to sneak it in so that your kids but you're benefiting yourself. So yeah, again there to it. But that's kind of the gist to start. Yeah, absolutely. And, you know, one thing like I've done a lot of work and tried to educate myself on self talk because I found in my own life like myself talk has just been so destructive when I look at it. Now I'm getting up there and age I'm over, over in the second half of my career easily so. So I look at like everything held me back in instead of those externals, it was more that internal, that self talk and no, I read like Jon Acuff soundtracks and then there's a couple other books that I've read. And when they're talking about like that internal dialogue, and he talks about, you know, ask yourself a couple questions. Is it helpful? Are those words kind? Are those words true? And are those words true 100% of the time, and I think that gets with what you're Same as you know, I might have to lay on the couch because I needed that time to watch Netflix. But that doesn't mean that I'm lazy. It was just I needed that in that moment. Yeah, yeah. And if you notice yourself doing patterns of those things, and you're beating yourself up for it, then notice how bad is showing up. So that's one of the things that I say is listen, how's that showing up? Like? Is it? Does it come down on your chest? Like, is it a heavy pressure on your chest? As it are? You know, do you feel tight jaws? Like, like, what's going on? How is it manifesting in your body? Because that is a response to tell us a message. So if you are laying on the couch a lot, and you don't like that you're doing that? That's sending you a message, your body's trying to say, I don't like this, I want to change this, but I feel stuck. Hmm, I just want you to notice what's happening because you can't change it unless you do. Notice that it's there and that you'd still like it. So you have to change it. It's just noticing it. Yeah, absolutely. That That reminds me of like I had a conversation with Bobby policy now. And I don't know if you've listened to any of his stuff or read his book. But he was talking, he's big on reflection. And he was talking about, you know, he uses his reflective practice. So he'll go, and he writes, every single day he journals, and he has that reflection, private practice. And then he goes at the end of the week, and he has a day where he looks back at the week. And then once a month, he has a day where he goes back, and he looks at the whole month. And what he was talking about, which I thought was really cool. And when you mentioned, you got to notice it and you got to look for those patterns. He said, look for the positive and the negative patterns. Yeah, yeah. And then if you like the positive ones, you get to make a choice of you're gonna stick with that or not. And if it's working for you stick with it. And you can also choose to stay in the ones that aren't working for you. You just can predict the outcome, right? You can predict. Yeah, the problem is, is we get stuck in the shoulds. And, and so it's really simple. And again, knowing that we use should to kind of shame and it feels bad. That's not new. That's not, but people are like, how do I get out of that? And we ask the question, like, how do we get out of that quickly when it shows up, because it's going to show up. And some of us are going to have more of that over and over depending on our self talk. We need a way to combat that in a really simple way. So we said it because this has got to work for little kids too, because we have to make a generous vibrational shift. And it's got to work for adults. So what we say is, when you notice that's happening, and you're hearing like, I shouldn't be doing this, I should be doing that. Or it shows up in your body in a certain way. That's when you turn into could I could do this, I could continue? Is it helpful? Or is it hurtful? If it's hurtful? How am I gonna move out of it? What can I do next? And we get the tool for that. Right? So it's just simplifying it. So we'll do it. Yes. I love that. That reframing that mental reframing, taking it from should to could. Yes, that's simple. I mean, it's so simple, Brian, but why aren't people then doing it? Yeah, it's, uh, you know, sometimes I think it's almost like a muscle that are like, if you don't use it, you lose it. And if we're not practicing it, then you know, we get worse at it, or we fall victim to it. So that's powerful gas, especially teenagers. So teenagers, even like young, young teens, and even their brains are, they're so powerful. And if if we're not exposing them to things and ways to practice this, these kinds of techniques and reframing and all of that, then that's right, they're not going to adapt, as well as the other kids who did. So that's why our schools are so well positioned to reinforce this, so that we can help them here at school. And by the way at home, it's got to work there, too. Yeah, it's so funny. Like we were talking before we taped this art started recording here about the circle of control like that, focusing on the things that we can control. And I was saying that I was talking about that with my second graders. And it's always so amazing. Like, things like this, whether it's reframing from I should too I could, or really focusing on the things that are within our control. They can go from young kids, to teenagers, to college students to our age. Now they have to, and that's the only way number one that we're going to remember to use them and help them. But to that we actually will use them reflexively. The goal is to make these more reflexive. So if they're so simple, and you notice when you need them, and then you practice them well you can build proficiency in them. And then if everybody's doing it together, like in an immersive cultural experience, like if you're learning a language, you're speaking the common language. Well, if you mentioned circle of control, or you have and that's why we created visuals for each of these to immediately reference it in your mind. Speak to your kids about it. Say what is it? What is within your circle of control here, what is it within my circle of control, I did a training for 50 principals and use this same tool and they can use it. And they'll go back and use it. They were telling me about a quote, one of them specifically was saying, there's a teacher in their classroom, I don't like how that teacher is delivering the the material. And then we had a conversation we kept going back to, right, like these tools, like what's within your circle of control here and visualize it. And then what's not, then you start to gain that sense of empowerment again, and then learns what to do next. Right. So again, that's the goal. We've got to just simplify it, because we're feeling a lot of us are feeling like we're in chaos. And so when we're feeling that way, we have to simplify and slow down. That's the idea. Yeah, simplify and slow down. And I love you know, one thing that I always say, because I'm big into, like, the mental toughness, and everything that we're talking right here is every single day my students don't show up, and we're going to practice our reading skills. We're going to practice our math facts. We need to practice these skills that you're talking about know, in graining, that circle of control in graining, that self talk, yeah, we're trying to do that in schools, right. But for 30 years we've been trying to teach like Sel is a separate class. And we're trying to equip kids with the skills and expecting them to be resilient, right? I'm all about resilience, like we've got, everybody's got to be accountable for their behaviors. We've got to understand child development and think of what's age appropriate, and what's underlying that and all of that. We do get to build resiliency. But why are we just equipping kids? And so we've done that for decades. It's not working, we're still in a mental health crisis with our youth. And so that's why again, we were thinking like, that's not it's not working period. What do we got to do? Well, we have to equip the adults too. Yeah. 100%. Because I mean, there's a teacher shortage all over. And, you know, if we're not equipping the adults that burnout, that teachers leaving the profession, it's just gonna continue down that same path. Yeah. And that's what they keep telling us. They keep telling us, they want to be more equipped, they want that will actually help them. That's part of it. I remember, I was there. I was there, too. And so when I became skilled and equipped, I was so confident in my teaching, I was so confident classroom management wasn't an issue for me, not because I'm awesome, because I was skilled. And so we weren't right. And just think about it, just like with test taking how many times if you have a big paper to read, or you have a big test to take, and you are well researched, well studied, well prepared, or even to do a presentation, you're getting up there, and you're delivering it with confidence, and you can handle anything, you can handle it. And that idea and there by the way, they're asking for it. They're like, I don't know what to do. I just, I just want to be equipped. Yes, they kind of have it. It's that's huge. And thank you for helping others equipping others with this. So we talk about are the own. How about those ELO skills? Yeah, let's dive into that for a second. Okay, so ELA skills, again, it's about stepping outside of ourselves, and realizing that there's another person that we need to start looking out for, we need to think about how we are showing up for other people. And especially when we're in a powerful position, like teaching or like education leaders, there's a lot lot going on, and parents will get to that line and talk about that later. That's that's a big piece here. We're not Aaron's off the hook. But when we're positioned that way, we need to think about, well, why am I miss labeling this kid? For example? I mean, how many times do we do that? We do. I mean, I still do, I still do I just really good at catching myself and transitioning out of it. But I'm human, as we all are. And so one of the things we have to notice is that we are going to make assumptions, our brains do that to make shortcuts. And so we're not going to change that. However, we can, again, catch ourselves doing that. And so when we learn to understand that we have this implicit bias that we grew up with, that we didn't even put those darn biases in there. But they're there. They're there. Right? So let's just just let's be honest about it. And notice when they're, they're showing up for us. And the reason these skills are so vital, is because their behaviors are actually we think that's the problem, but their behaviors are not the problem. They're the symptom of the problem. And so when the behavior show up, then it's telling us some kind of message. So we need to get curious about that. And anybody who has a trauma informed background, and you've been this is not new, either. We know this. So if we know this, we have to put it out there. But we got to get curious like so one of the things we do with the skills, one of the skills is simply Well, we go through a whole process to notice and then other steps, but we say we What am I missing? Like? What am I missing? And what that does is it humanizes the kid or humanizes that colleague that you can't stand being around, right? Yep. Because something in our knowledge base is missing about them. And we may never know what that is. And so Aloe skills are about how do we show up for them in a way that makes them feel dignified, and still maintains our integrity around that. So we don't go back to that guilt, shame and pain from what we did that we later regret to this other person. So I know that so yeah, no, there's a lot there. And it's so good and so powerful. And I love be curious, in that question, like as stepping back and asking ourselves, what am I missing? Right? Right. No, sorry. So, again, so this is one of the things when I was teaching, when I was teaching mental health topics for all those years. I was like, Oh, when I go and get to become a social worker, and a therapy clinical therapist, I'm going to know a lot. Well, I had a good base, but oh, my gosh, I learned so much. And one of the things they teach you as a trauma specialist, or even just trauma informed, is curious. So we don't miss guide and mislabeled kids, when we miss label them, we miss guide them, and we don't build them up, we just shove them somewhere that they don't need to be typically. And so and I know that's very complex, but just that simple skill. Again, we can all learn to do that as human beings as adults as kids, just to say, What am I missing? I wonder what's going on? I wonder what their story is, you know, I wonder what has happened to them? Yeah, who's not need a graduate degree for that. You're starting off and teacher education classes and pre service education. They don't need to be therapists either. But we all can change a little bit of our language and a little bit of the way we're seeing things and hearing them in order to respond differently. Yeah, so so good. And I love when you talk about, you know, when we miss label, we miss guide. And another thing that I've often found too, and I catch myself is we can focus on something of someone. And when you say like that colleague, just, you know, they push the buttons in the wrong way. If you're not careful that subconsciously I have found, that's all you look for in that person. So whether it's really focusing on their strong suit, but I also like when you talk about all these questions that you were just saying, because that leads with curiosity. And sometimes in that moment, when if I had a tough moment with a student, it's stepping away, and maybe it's on that walk at nighttime, I'm decompressing, and my head's a little clearer. That's when I found like asking those questions might be the best time for me as well. Oh, that's good. Yeah, finding that time that works for you to really reflect upon that is really important, for sure. And, and it does like, and again, I did this myself, so I know it's powerful. And when I teach other people to do it, it immediately shifts how you see that other person. And what that does is allow space for you to forgive them. Them and not, like give them and really hope. So the problem is, is we don't if we get stuck there, Brian, and we don't have hope that anything is going to get better, either within ourselves, which that's dangerous. And that's when kids and adults, they lean towards self harm or suicidality, if there's no hope or quitting, right, or like leaving profession. So my goal is listen, we've got Rockstar people position in our schools already who loves kids, passionate about teaching kids for well, well over like, well beyond curriculum they care about. And we got to keep those people there because they are already there for a purpose. So we got them there. We got to re energize them. Absolutely in you know, that makes me think of every single person that that has come into the I've worked with this come into this teaching profession. I think they're amazing people. And they came in because they love kids. It's not because of the the big rock star salaries that we're getting. It's, you know, that love for students, but over time, because we don't have the skills that you're talking about, you know, it can chip away, and it can really lead to that burnout and just that hope that you talk about so powerful. Yeah, hope is powerful. Hope is incredibly powerful. It's what keeps us going. It's what keeps any kid going. I mean, I've worked in a hospital within a crisis unit for teens who are really struggling. I mean, you want to talk about kids who are struggling, these are kids who are struggling. And if they just have an adult, or a person who believes in them as a human being, they're going to at least lean towards therapy, they're gonna lean towards growth. And otherwise, they're not going to lean towards anything, they're going to fall into despair. And so that's why I believe we all have a responsibility to build each other up, they're cutting each other down, let's build each other up. I mean, we're all going to benefit from it, everybody. Yes, yes, the power of belief. And you know, one of the stories that always stuck with me so Dabo Swinney, he's, I won't tell the whole story, but he's the head coach at Clemson football. And he, he's talked about, you know, when he took over the program, and you talk about like, he's working in a division one, high level football program, thing, alpha males, like, these guys probably have zero struggles with it. And, you know, he says, he comes into these team meetings, and he has two sides. And the one sign, it says, I can't, and it has the T crossed off, so says I can, and the other side, said belief. And I listened to him talk, and he goes, these young men and alpha males, alright, these guys probably, you know, walk around the campus with their head held up high or whatever, they have their struggles. And they hear so much. And there's so much of the world is out there to tell people what you can't do what you can't be. And he says, I'm always going to tell those kids what they can be that I believe in that. And I think, you know, right to your point, you're you've been in those trauma places one person for that one student in the school, just to know that somebody believes in them is so powerful. Yeah, it is. And imagine how, how many of us who are equipped to do that, while managing our own mental health and wellness? Yes, like, okay to go home to our own families, and engage with them in a healthier way. Imagine the ripple effect in our society and in our futures. That's, that's truly my vision. And it has been for a long time. And I believe, I believe it is possible, and it's a big dream, but we're not going like I'm not going the other way. I refuse to go any other direction. So, yeah, well, I'm thankful that you're not going the other direction, because you're having a big impact. And it's not just believing in others, but putting that belief back into ourselves as well, which is huge. Yeah, yeah. I mean, stepping out of the classroom full time to, to take this on is actually a leap of faith. It is a leap of faith, but I truly do. There's no other choice in it for me, like, I really believe this just needs to happen. And I'm going to step up and lead it, I got a great partner leading it with me. And we're going to just do this darn thing. Let's just do this. And more people keep hearing about it. And they're like, oh, I want this to yes, you can do it too. And you get out there and then you lead in your schools. So really, I do truly believe that we all can do this together. Awesome. And I love it. And you know, just to say one last thing on this topic, and then we'll transition to something else. I love how you talked about the even the level that you're at, that you still have those negative thoughts, but you recognize them and that you re label them. Yeah, I think people who say they don't are just lying or afraid to admit it and be vulnerable. It's fine. I mean, listen, I went through that whole thing. There was a time where I was still teaching. And I will see then that was to say this isn't 2000 I think 2019 Actually, I know, it was January 1 2019. Because we're driving home on New Year's Day and in our family. Not only do you choose your own new year's resolutions, we get to say one for each other. And I love that. Yeah, like Yeah, kind of like that. So my middle child said for you, Mom, I want you to smile more. And I was like, Oh my God, oh, no, I'm caught. I was really suffering. As an educator. At that time, though. There was some things going on at school, and I was really struggling. And I was also suffering as a mother, I was really struggling. And because I was struggling, so we're all of my children. And it wasn't just my biological children. It were my my students were struggling because we know as educators, they're our children, too. And that wasn't okay for me, I needed to do so I sought out a trauma therapist myself. So I not only was training, I actually went through it myself, and understood the power of it. And we really can unravel those neural connections that are bogging us down and making them a charged effect on our emotions and our bodies every day. We can really transform that and if we can't, why aren't we doing that? Why aren't we doing so? Yeah, absolutely. And I love that and I love thank you for being open and vulnerable about that. Like there's certain Things that we can't see ourselves. Because you know, we're right there. So having that other person that you can talk to that you can open up to that can walk you through. That is pretty special, too. Yeah, it's nice to lean on those people who who are looking out for you, too. Yeah. 100%. So we talked about ourselves, we talked about others. How about the last piece? Was it the Ambien? Yeah, so the ambi and these together. So we thought, well, we have to protect and look out out for ourselves and manage ourselves. And then we have to look out for the other person. So now we've got to protect the relationship, we've got to resolve issues well, and we've got to connect with people. Well, this is this is maintaining healthy relationships, and resolving issues that are equitable, and in a way that meets people's needs. And so we have this polarization in our society and our schools and our buildings and our classrooms and our families. So we thought we got to simplify that to try to figure out a tool. So our last one is collaborative resolution. And we came up with a tool that in a simple way, asks for what you need, and ask for what I need, and how can we make that happen. And sometimes that changes very quickly, and there's one need at a time that you can meet. But it's really about what is it that I'm actually needing in this moment right now? And let's let's try to solve this problem by meeting each other's needs. So it's equitable? It seems so simple. It can be really big. But if you simplify it, it's more manageable. Yeah. Do you have any like tips? So I break it down to my second graders? And I'm having two second graders that might be going head to head or have different needs in the moment? How would I break that down tool? Yeah. So they're on the playgrounds, one of the kids wants a ball? Yeah, it wants that same ball the same time? You know, there's probably same ball with a different color right near there. Yeah, so you, and let's say this one, the one kid with the ball is playing with a kid and the other kid just wants to play with their friends with that ball anyway, there's only one ball. So each of them need to say, well, what is it that you need? And what is it that I need? One with the balls like, well, I need the ball. And the other kids? Will I need the ball? Well, actually, what is it that you need? Is it that you want to have fun? Is that you want to play with somebody? Is that you want to toss something around? Is there something that you can So figure out what that need is, and then easily be replaced? Right? And so if we get them to use the language, well, I actually just wanted to hang out with someone doing some movements. And there's another way to replace that with some other kind of movement, for example. Right? And so I don't I can't answer that. Because I'm not the kid, the kid gets to be empowered by saying what it is they need, but we get to lead them into figuring out well, what is it that you actually need? Yeah, no, that's so good. And I loved how you talked about using the language, making that language visible form, like walking them through it. And you know, as those repetitions, we just get those reps in, so it becomes more natural form. Absolutely. And that's what we need to do, Brian, for it to be long term and sustainable. We have to do it reflexively. If that way, it doesn't take up our mental energy or physical. We're not as tired when we have to think it through. And we have better outcomes when we reflexively use the tools. And again, that's how they're designed. But for every age group, and then when we teach our kids and model it for them, that is huge. Like that's powerful. Yes. Oh, I love what you said. They're like model for them. One of the biggest, you know that I was listening to the finding mastery podcast, and it's a great podcast, one of my favorites. And they had this woman on Tuesday, she had her doctor and choose specialize in like working with children, and everything. And they were talking then they said, you know, our children are listening to what we're saying. And our words have, you know, huge power. But she also said, what the piece that we always forget sometimes is they're watching what we're doing, how we handle those situations, how we handle those stressful moments, how we treat each other. So, you know, it's being cognizant that we're the biggest modeler of all of these skills as well. That's so true. It's so true. And that's another part of those ambi skills as knowing when we're with other people is like, what is our limits? So we talk about, like, when we model so because it's because there's conflict, right? When there's conflicts like what do we do when there's conflict? Well, let's break that down. Relationship. Reciprocity is not just it's not like give and take, what am I going to give? And what are you gonna give me back? It's not about we're handing our power over when we expect people to give us something that we need or want. It's not about that. It's about right. It's about what am I like what is Mind limits. So what am I willing to give without any expectations back just out of love and kindness or service? And what like, How much am I willing to take from that person? Right, right. And so again, we have a tool that simplifies it, you just you think about, well, what's that like for me? And what am I missing? So we say, Listen, we want you to think about one person who challenges you a lot, we, because if you can zone in on that one person, you can solve the problem by looking within yourself, and realizing what's within your own limits. And you respect your limits. We don't expect people to respect our limits, we respect our limits. So it empowers us. And instead of over I was in an abusive relationship. Price. And there was one right when I was started teaching, and I try not to go into too much, but I was so stuck there. But it was until I decided that I'm not willing to do this part of it anymore. I'm not willing to. And it was about my limit, and me respecting my limit. So we can teach young kids that too, we can teach all age groups that we can teach that to teachers who have an AP, who they're in a dispute with, or right, and we don't even talk about boundaries, because bound. I mean, I know boundaries are important and nothing but boundaries kind of move and boundaries kind of have that expectation that you can't cross my boundary. Well, it's not about that. It's about what's my limit of what I can give, and what I'm willing to take. Ah, that's, that's so good. Having that self awareness, respecting your limit, and understanding what you can give and what you can take. Ah, love it. So there's so many great takeaways, I you know that and these are just a few from your book, improving school mental health. So absolutely love it. Thank you for sharing so many awesome stuff. And thanks for letting me have a space to do that. It really is important. And I appreciate the conversation so much, Brian, thank you. Oh, so good. Now, two of my favorite questions, Charlie is what is a book that you would recommend or books and a favorite podcast that you have? Okay, so I told you, I'm going to tell everybody, I recommend your podcast, I really do. You guys have got to go listen to more of these episodes, because there are some really great like deep conversations about this. And I was telling you, Brian about the one about failure, what kind of message we need to send about failure, because we have to learn to fail gracefully and in front of each other, and especially in front of kids. And then other topics you have are fantastic. So please go listen more to teaching champions. And I do thank you. Um, and that's true. I mean, I've I've listened to podcasts for a long time. And so I don't take that lightly. Because you also have a podcast too, that just restarted. So let's plug that one as well there, Charlie? Oh, my gosh, yeah, I used to have one called advancing humanity was kind of general. But I always come back to education. So I just launched this newest one. And it's for education leaders, or anybody who is a visionary for improving mental health, specially utilizing our schools, and it's just called driving school community. That's our program. So it just made sense to call it that. But yeah, yeah. So conversations about how to do that. So yeah. And then you said a book recommendation. All right. Yep. Okay, so I just did this book study with my kids school. And my sister is the school counselor there. And she had a great it was a great met recommendation from her. So I loved it. It's called anxious kids, anxious parents. So that's for you, parents who have anxiety, and your kid has an anxiety. And we're using the language saying, well, it's just in your genes. Oh, no more, we're changing that language too. So get if you struggle with anxiety, please get this. It's really good. Awesome. Awesome. Awesome. Thank you. That sounds like a great one to check out. Yeah. Now, if people want to bring you because what you're giving here, and this was just a little snippet is so powerful, and it's so needed, like going forward, everybody, our students need it, but the adults need it too. How can people connect with you? Wow, well, you could just go so you could get a thriving school.org. Or you can just email me, Charlie ch ar l e at thriving school. That org or just find me on Twitter. I'm at Charlie Peck ch ar l e CK. Yeah, just reach out to me, because we want to keep talking about this. So yeah, absolutely. And you've been traveling around the country speaking to a lot of different districts as well. So that's great. Yeah, yeah. We're excited to really be getting this out there. It's exciting for sure. Awesome. Now, if you could have the listener walk away with one thing, what would that be? I want you to realize that this is a needs based approach. So if you're stuck with yourself or you're stuck with somebody else, just simply go back to what is it that I need, or what is it that they need, and just try to meet that need of that just try and meet that need. Now, Charlie, um, even though you're a Bengals fan, he raised his son folksy. She has a son, that's a Bills fan. So we know that she's doing a lot of good things that I just want to say, you know, the work that you're doing is so important. It's so needed, it's so special, and just, you know, being able to connect with you. And, like hearing like the energy that you're putting out. It's real, it's authentic. It's beautiful. So thank you so much for the work that you do my friend. Thank you, Brian, thanks for even just having this conversation. And I appreciate you so much. I really do. Yeah, and I appreciate you as well, my friend. This conversation was so good. Charlie is such an amazing person. And coming from a background of being both an educator and a licensed therapist, she has such a unique knowledge set. And there was so much for us to learn from. Now, this is a teaching champion state where I share three of my favorite gems from this conversation. And the first gym that I love was when Charlie talked about a moment doesn't mean that is who you are. And she talked about, there are those days where you might just have to sit on the couch and binge watch a little Netflix. And just because you do that, it doesn't mean that you're a lazy person. We all have moments. We have moments in our professional life, we have moments in our personal life. And it's always important that we remember, just because we've had a moment that doesn't need to define who we are. The second gem that I love was when Charlie talked about being curious, when someone acts a certain way, when someone says something, that's hurtful, we should step back, we should take that time to ask, What am I missing? What is going on with this person? What has happened to them. And as she said, This humanizes the person. And when you ask questions when you're curious, it allows you to have that space to forgive others. And the third gem that I loved was all about that power of belief and hope. And Charlie, she talked about that time that she was in a trauma Ward, and how with just one person believing in a child there could make such a huge difference in their life, the hope that it could fill them up with and hope is a necessity for all of us. So it was just such a powerful reminder to be that person that believes and others today, be that person that takes that moment to let that person know whether it's a student, or whether it's an adult. I believe in you. Now, these are just a few of my favorite takeaways. Let me know at BU Martin real on Twitter or to do champions podcast on Instagram. What were some of your favorites. A big thank you to Charlie for dropping so many amazing gems. And a big thank you to all of you for being here. For being part of the teaching champions community. We support we encourage we lift each other up. And always remember, it doesn't matter whether you're from rural America, to urban America, to Canada to Spain to Bahrain. We're all on that same mission. We're all on that same team, and we're always better together. Keep being amazing, my friends, and as you go out into the week may step into your strength. May you step into your shine, and let's build our champions. Have a great week, everybody