Deficits, Belonging, and Lessons Learned Over 40 Years in Education with Martin Silverman

What's going on everybody? I hope this finds you striving and thriving and doing absolutely amazing. My name is Brian Martin. I'm a second grade teacher and host of the teaching champions podcast. And today's conversation is an insightful one. Because we're talking with someone who has 40 years of experience in education. Imagine the insights that you would have after 40 years. My guest today is Martin Silverman. He's a father grandfather husband. He's a longtime educator and beautiful San Antonio, Texas. He's committed to providing the best educational experience for students and families at Salinas Elementary School, where he's the principal, and Martin's worked as a teacher and administrator in urban, suburban and rural districts. His interests are in creating and nurturing school culture, providing enriching experiences for students and families, and developing future teachers and administrators. And as a former bilingual teacher, and administrator, Martin has committed to providing e ll students with quality programs to develop their unique skills. He hosts a podcast called The second question, which highlights educators and provides them a forum to discuss ideas, and honors the teachers that have influenced their lives. He's also part of a trio of Texas educators that hosts the podcast, the Texan connection. And before we get started, I just want to say that if you think someone would benefit from this conversation, please share. This podcast is all about supporting, encouraging and lifting each other up. And then each conversation is another opportunity to amplify a voice of someone who's just doing some extraordinary things. Now in this conversation list, as Martin talks about strategies that he's used to help him enjoy the field of education for 40 years. Listen, as he talks about the dangers of only focusing on deficits, the importance of building trust, honoring one another, seeing the joy, and so much more. I hope you enjoy this one as much as I did. I am super excited for this episode. When you get the opportunity to talk to someone who is been in the game for a long time that has changed lives, and seen a lot of amazing educators, you jumped at that chance. So this is going to be a great episode where we can learn so much. And I want to welcome Martin Silverman to the podcast, Martin, welcome to the teaching champions podcast, my friend. Hey, Brian, I appreciate it. It's so good to be here. It's so good to hear somebody speaking, you know, in that upstate western New York accent because that's something that I definitely grew accustomed to during my time in upstate New York, and I haven't gotten to hear on a regular basis. So thanks for that, for sure. And I appreciate you having me. The one thing is you're a long way from home or from where you started out for so for the listeners who don't know who you are, would you mind sharing a little bit about your journey, my friend? Absolutely. So I grew up in Brooklyn, New York, the best place in the best city in the world. I'm a little bit biased about that. But I love New York and I love being from New York. And I went to college in upstate New York in Oswego, New York. And that's where I did my student teaching and, and, you know, kind of started getting my foot my feet wet with education. I didn't intend necessarily to be an education major. I it kind of came to me though. And it really was in my eye really, that's something that when I think back on being a kid, that is something that I definitely was one of the things that I thought I wanted to be I had some great models and I had some poor models and you know, you want to be like the great ones. And you want to make sure you don't do what the the poor miles did. So there was a little bit of that, but I became became a teacher and I, you know, at the time that I graduated back before you were born, and before, maybe a lot of your listeners were even born back in 1983 when I graduated there, New York didn't you know, there weren't a whole lot of jobs there. And so I went to an on campus interview at a college over in Rochester i We drove over with a couple of friends and that was for the Houston Independent School District in Houston, Texas. then, you know, back in those days, it was not you didn't get contracts over, you know, in an email because there wasn't email. So you I got a contract in the mail from Houston ISD. And I took that job and move to Houston. start my career at age 21. Stay there for three years, I was a elementary teacher and an elementary bilingual teacher. And then I moved to San Antonio is kind of slid down the highway about a couple 100 miles west, and have been here ever since. And elementary teacher, elementary administrator, and currently in my 40th year in education, getting ready to do the big are and retired in as officially in a couple of weeks. But, you know, school's over. So we're just kind of on the downslide right now. Here in San Antonio. So as an elementary principal, which I've been for, gosh, I've been in administration 33 of those 40 years. And so all in this area. So yeah, that's and that's how I got to be where I am. And, and but the real stuff is I'm a husband and a and a dad of three and a grand father of four. And with two more on the way from to two different kids, we got one coming in October and one in January. And so looking forward to having some more babies around the house, the oldest is three, right now of those four. And so lots of little babies and toddlers running around. So much to look forward to my friend. Now, it's a long journey. And it's neat, and it's fun to see where our journeys take us from Brooklyn, all the way down to Houston and San Antonio. Um, the one thing in First off, congratulations on being retired. And it's always amazing to me, and I always want to step back and listen to people when they're at where you're at right now. When you're closing that door for the last time walking away. And just like the knowledge and the wisdom that you've had for for so long, and when you think about it, 40 years is a long time. I mean, that's impressive. Now how, how do you stay for so long, and not just stay for so long? When I look at like your Facebook or your Twitter, your Instagram is always positive. And you can tell how much you love, like the field of education? How do you do that? You know, that's a great question. And I want you to know that it's not I'm not oblivious to the fact that there are challenges we face in our field political challenges and, and societal challenges. And, you know, that has, there's been a significant change over the 40 years, for sure. But you know, when when you think of things that you want to do, that you like to do, that you enjoy to do, this has been the thing that I've liked to do and enjoy to do I drive, I have a long commute to work for here, I have a 31 mile each way commute. Okay, so in the city traffic, that's, you know, in the mornings, it's not too bad, but it's at least an hour to get home. Right. But I, I do it joyfully and I do it because I get to go and kind of close the door to a lot of the societal stuff and a lot of the political stuff because in side our school building, we control everything. And so once once I got a handle on the fact that we control that we control the culture, we control the climate, we control, you know, our attitudes and what we're going to do with our kids and, and all that it really makes it you know, I think about trying to work in a, in a different kind of situation where you don't necessarily have that control. And really then and what you have your product ends up being something amazing, you know, I have, obviously kids that I've taught and and been there administrator and they're grown up now. And to to get to see them is it's I mean, it's incredible that that they remember things about school when they were little. And you know, I think we did that we made that experience happen for them. And if we didn't do it, who would do it so there's you know, there's a sense of if not me, who if not you you know who's gonna who's gonna do that who's gonna provide those experiences and I'm control Lane enough to say that I want to be the one that that controls the fact that they're going to have a good experience at you know, the best of my ability. And so when you when you have that mindset which I've You know, made myself have and have, you know, enjoyed happening? It's easy to work a lot of years because it's not the same every day for sure. It's, it's not the same as just when you think, you know, like, and I know that sounds so cliche, just when you think you've seen everything something else happens. And you know, I've heard people say that, but I mean, it's true. Like there were new things happening, literally the last two weeks of school that I was like, Well, I haven't had to deal with this. Yeah, you know, and here we are. And so it's, it's educating kids, but it's also educating communities. And that's super, I mean, I can't think of anything more gratifying than that. Now that that's so good. And I think it's so powerful when you talk about, like, really focusing on controlling the things that you can control. Because sometimes, you know, we lose a sense of that we focus on all of these things that are outside of our control, that if we just focused on the controllables, our days would be so much better. Did you always have that mindset? You know, it is natural, I'm kind of lucky in in my family situation, because I grew up the youngest of four kids, and the only boy, so I have three older sisters. So the positivity was, you know, was poured on me. Being the youngest, and the only be the youngest is a great place to be anyway, but then the youngest didn't only boy is a super great place to be. And so there was a, you know, there was a sense that I feel like I've always had that things are, the things can be tough. And things are there's definitely negativity and it has to be, you know, addressed and dealt with and, you know, and thought about, but that doesn't have to be the driving force in it. And it wasn't in my upbringing. And it's not, it's not as an educator, as excellent, excellent. Now, you also mentioned, like, you're not oblivious to the fact that there are bad things out there things that shine a negative light on us, but what do you do to make it 40 years? On those bad days? You know, it's, that's a good question. Because what you just said is important, the bad days are notable because they are rare, hopefully, you know, most days, most days are just okay, most days or, you know, routine days, right. And then you have these, like special great days, you know, things that happen that are that are you know, events and, and experiences and, you know, somebody has and all that kind of stuff, and that those days are great. And when you consider the balance of your routine days, which are good. And then your great days, which are great. Those bad days, you can put into perspective of Yeah, you know, like, bad stuff happens, you know, kids do bad stuff, parents yell at us. And, and, you know, and if you read Twitter, you know, you'll it would seem like everything is you know, we're all grooming kids and, you know, making them hate America, I mean, all these kinds of things that that we know aren't true. And are our people using their little voices to you know, put outrage somewhere where they just feel like they need you know, it if you start thinking those poor people who are who live their life that way in that negativity, you know, for them. Because what I've always told, you know, teachers who, I'll give you a perfect example, right? So there are teachers who have kids in their class who are who misbehave, right? And they, and they do what all teachers I've seen, I've never seen a teacher say, you know, I'm gonna come into school, and I'm gonna mess his day up, I'm gonna make this kid, you know, like, rage at me, I'm gonna make this kid have a terrible day. It's, I don't know that that's honestly, ever that I've ever experienced that there could be some nuts out there that, you know, maybe that problem, but But typically, that's not what happens. And when you start thinking, man, you know, this kid is going to be I'm going to have him for this many days, or he's going to be in this way for this many days. But with me, but after he leaves me and before he came to me, like, that's his life, you know, like, he's trying to live in that in that turmoil. And then, and I'm not talking about like, social societal turmoil. I'm talking about his internal turmoil. You know, if he's, you know, one of the things I tell kids all the time is you don't have to react to stuff that happens down here. And you know, you can see my hands but they can the listeners, but like, stuff that happens down here, you don't have to react up here all the time. You don't have to, oh, you have a choice to react in a in a in react to it. That's, you know, like, be mad. Be. Be whatever. But let's teach you how to react to that. And so if a teacher can, can say, You know what this poor kid is going to live in turmoil his whole life, how am I going to have him for this 100 And whatever many days, right? If I can pour something into him, that gives him a little bit of coping, is not going to fix it. But it's, but it may help mitigate it. And then if you're, as people go on, it may, it may ultimately fix it. And so when, when you think that you can do something, even if it's not fix it, but you can do something to, you know, alleviate some of that, you know, that's a, that's a pretty good day, right. And so, and so we try to be people who save and fix, and, you know, and do all that. And sometimes you can't save and fix, but what you can do is, I'm gonna give you some coping strategies, my friend, and your, I can say that with adults and with kids. Yes, this is not something that like tears you down. But we're going to, we're going to try to build you up a little bit. Now, I love that, I love that. And, you know, one thing that I've always found is even like the bad days, I'm trying to find something that brings you joy, and something that that can recenter myself, whether it's a walk around the school, whether it's really, you know, being around seven and eight year olds, a lot of times they provide moments, you know, you can just walk look across the room, and whether they're interacting with one of their friends. Or if you get a little one on one time, and they read to you and you hear that? Did you what brings you joy? Like, did you have any strategy, like, I need this moment, I need to look for something positive. You know, what specifically brings me joy, if we're talking about school, is just exactly what you said. Because what you have to sometimes look for it, it's not, it doesn't always present itself to you, you have to find joy in in moments sometimes. And, and if you're especially I was relating a story to you earlier about before we started recording about my fifth graders at lunch, you know, and I was saying that they I was there rough, they were a rough behavior group this year. And I was on them. I mean, I was I was doing lunch duty with them, I chose to do lunch duty with them. Because I wanted to get to know them as you know, people on a neutral level. And, and it was I was found myself just yelling at them every day. And they were because they were doing naughty stuff. They were not, you know, it wasn't criminal stuff. It was rude. And sometimes it was whatever. But But what I had to do for myself to maintain Joy was to say to them, Look, you don't, I need a break from you, for sure. But you also need a break from me because you don't need somebody in here yelling at you, every this is your time to you know, relax and cut loose a little bit. And, and all that. So, so recognizing the fact that sometimes we have to, it's not going to present it self to us that we have to then go look for something. And so you know, the antidote to that is exactly what you said, it's, it's, you know, what I'm looking at, I'm so frustrated with how the kids are doing on this lesson, I'm going to need to stop, take a breath and find something that's awesome and positive, so that I can recalibrate myself. And that's one of the things that we have to consciously do because we are sometimes I feel like we're sometimes geared especially in education, and we've been made to feel this way too is that it's like deficit deficit deficit, right, the kids? Well, they're not able to do you know, the academics on the level they're supposed to. And there's a whole bunch of reasons that that when you try to, you know, correlate the political side, they don't make sense, the people who make the decisions for us are not the ones who do what we do, one of the professions where that happens. And so we, we have to say, You know what, it's ridiculous sometimes when people want us to do what we what I have to do, what I have control of when you close the door of your second grade classroom, and you can say, You know what, let's stop. We're gonna stop this lesson right now, because this is not going the way that it should go, this is you and your head, and we're going to do something, you know, different we're going to we're going to, we're going to create a moment of where we can not feel like we're in deficit, right? And you have to do that and when you do that, you that is of benefit to you and to them, because you can hammer at them all the time. You know, you can, we can hammer at them. We can hammer at our admin we can hammer at politics shins we can hammer it, you know, all the different things that are being asked to us. Or we can say, You know what, I need to step out a minute here and find something that is here, you know, there's, I need to find it, I need to do some because I need to calibrate myself and I think that's, you know, finding joy. Specifically, there's it's all over the place if you look for it, yes, 100%. And it makes me think, um, I just the other day had a conversation with Coach Jim Johnson, Hall of Fame basketball, high school basketball coach, and he was talking about sometimes, if he had a really bad practice, the day before they pose as assistant coach assigned, said, You know, we really need to focus on the positive today. And we really need to let our players know that positive and everything. And you know, that kind of brings me back to this, like, recognizing when stuff just isn't going right. It's not going right for the students. And it definitely isn't going right for us. And creating that space, taking that step back. And you talked about creating that moment. However you do that creating that moment where there's just some laughter, some fun, some recognition of how far you've come is. That's exactly right. Right, because it's easy to continue down the path of we're not doing well, we're not you know, we're having problems, deficits, deficits, deficits, and they exist, you know, it's not, they're not, but you don't, you don't fix a deficit by keeping identifying it, you know, what I mean? Like, yes, you can fix the deficit by by focusing on it so much that, that that's what you become, you become, like, you, I can see teachers and admin who would walk in and say, Man, you know, I don't want to come here every day. It's all it's all deficits all day. It's not us problems. It's all, you know, these bad things, when really, that while that does exist, it's you can, there are things we can mindset ourselves, out of, out of, and it's not like, it's not Pollyanna, at all. It's, it's, it's real, you know, I'm trying to say Be realistic, it's not what they used to say like toxic positivity, it's not that it's not fake at all, you say, I'm going to if I have to dig down to, you know, the, the, the level of your, you know, shoes are tied beautifully today. Then that's, that may be the thing that we have to start with to say, Okay, I guess in the kids had in the teacher said, Right, I'm saying this as a teacher, as an administrator, if all I ever do is tell you what you're doing wrong. And I don't tell you, you tie your shoes. Well, today, as a teacher and as, or a teacher to a kid, you know, you'll you all you'll ever think is all they do is stuff wrong, and perpetuates. And so we have to break that. Yes, I 100% agree. And since we're both at the primary level, like some of these kids that deficit deficit deficit, when all they've heard at a young age, was their weaknesses, right? And how can we expect them when they get older, to really have that self confidence to you know, meet the challenges that the day brings? And Brian, you know, if you want to really get into that, I think about this a lot, because if you teach second, right, and, and I taught first for a long time, but if we talk about pre K and K, those kids came out of their home, being told that they were great, you know, that they were adorable, and they were, they did fun stuff, and they were cute, and all that. And literally, they walk into school, and we find things wrong with them, where they don't behave correctly, they don't walk in line, right? They don't, you know, eat their lunch correctly, they bring stuff that we don't think they should have for lunch, they don't do well on the boi Testing, testing, and then we start looking at them as as having deficits. And that has got to get into their into their head because I mean, they were brought in these, you know, magnificent creatures. And we through some, through some artificial standards that would that have been set? We say no, you're behind. And, and that doesn't. If you think of teachers who are listening who have had kids, you know who may be Middle School, upper elementary, middle school, high school, those kids have been told that now for year after year after year. And so what are they supposed to think how are they supposed to respond? You know, they're it's, it's hard to be told that you're you do something bad all the time. Yeah, I 100% agree with that. And I think you know, I'm guilty of it sometimes. You know, I've said stuff and I've stepped back and like man, I shouldn't have said that. As adults, and then we just have to look in the mirror, how do we react? Like if I keep telling you your your weaknesses, and you're not performing well. But you know, but I wouldn't say you don't replace all of that with positive you replace enough of it that it balances. So, you know, I used to say when I was a teacher, I was tough on my class I was, you know, I expected don't turn in, you know, work that's not been had effort put into it or, or whatever. But, but the it would that was balanced. If I only did that, if I only did that that would have been a problem. But I balanced it with like, you know, going crazy over stuff they did when they finally did so. So it's that and you have to do that consciously. You have to say, You know what, this kid, I've been, on his case, her case, you know, for a lot about this work habits stuff, I need to find something that I can compliment, so that they don't only hear that, and then you I will tell you that habit becomes ingrained in you, too when you start saying oh, well, you know, I see all these positive things that you do. And also these negative things. So we're going to work on those. We're going to build up on those positive, you don't say those words. You just that's how you start interacting with them. And that's, I'm saying that teacher to kid, I'm saying that administrator to teacher, it's the same. It's the same mindset. Yes. And you know, I loved how you brought it back and said that it's not always just feeding them, you know, the praise, praise, praise, praise that there's a level of accountability, that, you know, I love basketball. I'm a big college basketball fan. I love listening to podcast, where you just the head coaches are talking because coaches are teachers. I mean, they're there. They're a class classrooms, just the basketball court, a gentleman that I really love listening to down, I believe Texas a&m, down in your neck of the woods is Bob Starkey coach Bob Starkey, and he talks a lot about loving them tough, that, you know, you earn the permission, to hold them accountable to set that bar high. But in order to do that, you gotta love them. And you know, I think that's exactly what you're touching upon right there. So as an administrator, what I would say to teachers is, I'm going to not be in your business very much. Because I pick you, you know, like, I interviewed you and selected you, because my expectation and my, you know, what I got from you was that you're going to be able to do that. And I'll help you, I'll help you do whatever you need, right? If you need materials, I get your materials, if you need support, I'll give you support. If you want to laugh with me cry with me, whatever. I've been all of that. I'm right there for you. But I trust you, I trust you to to be you know, to be what needs to happen for the group of kids that you have in your classroom. So I'm not going to question you on if you are taking an extra, you know, few minutes of recess once in a while. Or if you're not on the subject that you're supposed to be on, if I happen to walk in the room, that I'm not going to hammer you for that, that because I trust you. And that's I think, probably you know, you're not had talked about I know, maybe this is I may be foreshadowing, but we're talking about teacher retention. And I think that is one of the keys is if I hire you, and then tell you what to do all the time, you don't want to do that job. Because you're not going to want to necessarily do what I say. And I don't mean that I don't mean it in do what I say as a obedience thing, I'm saying, like, what I may be telling you to do, may not be the way that you know is the right way to do it. Because I don't I'm not with your kids everyday you are, so you know them the best. And so you need to be making the decisions for them. And so when we get to the point where we can, as administrators let go of that a little bit. I wrote something one time an article was about kids, but it was called Building capacity by letting go. And that's and the whole premise is, you will always feel weak. If I do ever if I solve all your problems, and I'm talking about no adult a child, but you really could almost say that for adult to adult, you know if if that I was talking about adults to kids, like if you always swoop in and fix everything for them, then they you we start suddenly telling them you're not capable of that. I need to do that. I need to tell you what to do because you don't you're not making the decisions. And so, as an administrator, I guess I could say the same thing for for the teachers, right? For the step. If I if I go in and tell you what to do in every situation that doesn't honor your expertise, your talent, your you know, responsibility to So that's kind of where that's where I go with that. No, I think, you know, speaking, from a teacher's perspective, I think that that trust piece is huge and empowerment piece, you know, empowering your teachers is huge. And I really love what you talked about, you know, empowering the students to not just swooping in and solving the problem for them, maybe, you know, initially walking them through it, or you know, that that scaffolding piece, but ultimately, we should be giving them the tools to help them solve these problems. Now, yeah, let's get into classroom or school culture a little bit. How because I, you know, as I look at your, your Instagram feed, and your Twitter feeds, and everything with your retirement and walking away, and everything you see, like the love and the joy that you created within the school, just through the pictures and everything, what were things that your school is created, that's created that culture that, you know, maybe I can bring into my school, you know, for sure, there are this, I will tell you that, that what happened at this school, and just give you a little perspective, the school that I'm at right now, this is my, I'm finishing my eighth year there, okay? So, it's, I've been there a while it didn't, you know, we didn't start right out of the gate, with the culture that we have, right now. It's kind of slow, it's not something that happened quickly, nor am I the kind of guy that, you know, will can swoop in and make stuff like that happened quickly, because I'd rather be slow and real, as opposed to and lasting, as opposed to just slapping some pain on something and, you know, hoping that it fixes. And I was at a school before this for 13 years. And so I what I told my staff was, you know, I was with, I was at the last school that I was at for 13 years, and I love those people, they were, you know, we were we were family, we were and truly like when I say that we you know, births and deaths, and marriages and divorces, and babies and, and all that kind of stuff, we were all wrapped up together, right. And then I got moved to this school. And I didn't know that I could love another group. Right? Like, and then I found out that I could have, you know, over time, and I think that part of that was once like truly getting to the you hear this, it almost sounds cliche in education, but we talk about relationship building and how important that is. But it's, it really is like, the beginning is just getting to know who you are as people and what you, you know, what your talents are and what you like, and what you don't like and, and how you react, you know, how you work in individually, and how you work in groups, and how you communicate, and all those things that take time that take time to get to know, as opposed to saying, Alright, we're all going to, you know, I'm new to the school, and we're gonna start this new program, and we're gonna, you know, we're all going to do this, and don't get me wrong, I have a couple of have for me on what I consider the non negotiables that that do have to happen right away. And the Apology of not apology, but with the explanation to people, you have to understand, these are things that are core to me, right. And so we're going to do this, but And I'm telling you, this is all as a as a human being, it has nothing to do with you, this is about this is about me. And I think even though people there were a couple of things, and a couple of people that didn't, you know, necessarily care for some of that stuff. I'll give the example I can give is I as an elementary person, like all my classes to be self contained, I don't like when kids switch teachers, for different subjects. That's just one of my things, you know, I have a deep philosophy and so I told them right from the beginning, that we're going to work if we're not going to maybe necessarily immediately do that, but we're moving to that in the next year or two Max, you know, we're gonna do the switching and we're gonna do and we're gonna do that. And but I will say that even for the people that fought it, coming as a human being like, I'm not saying this is the right answer. It's this is the right answer. For me, this is how I have to work. Just like a teacher saying, this may not be for everybody. But for me, this is what works for me. And us being able to honor each other that way, I think was the start of it. So So once they knew that, that was going to be the like the way it was going to be was not necessarily that they're always going to be told stuff, because there were a couple of things that were mine. But once they started knowing that like they could also do things differently than other people did. And that was okay. They could be different. They didn't, they didn't have to, you know, teach things exactly the same way they didn't have to be, you know, interact exactly the same way. That became really freeing for a lot of people that became I feel like that became like, Okay, we put a thing on our marquee in front of our school several times over the years, it just says, you belong here. And, and that's not just for kids, you know, we attempt to make a place where everybody feels like, there's something there for them. If they're athletic, there's something if they're artistic, there's something if they're musical, there's something if they're academic, there's something you know, like, just hold on, if if you don't like this, you wait, there's going to be something for you, you know, at some point, because you belong. And the staff too, is the same way with the staff. You know, you may be a divergent thinker, but it's okay. You also belong here, you know, we can we want that in our community as well. So, so I think that, you know, all of that long explanation, I think goes down to those three words that you belong here. Because, really, if I feel like if, if I'm doing that, and the staff are doing that, I mean, you can't help but to have a culture that is phenomenal. Yes, yes. You know, what? I'm listening to you talk right there almost. I don't know. Are you familiar with Ted Lassa? Oh, they Yes. Love that. Yes. So I'm just picturing because I watched the final episode this past weekend. So I'm just thinking about, like, the the culture, you know, he ran with the belief, but having that culture piece you belong here. Yeah. And you know, what's so funny about that? Is that I, you know, when I watched that episode, just last week, it was it affected me and, and it wasn't till later that I could see actually, I was talking to a friend of mine. And we were then picking apart some of the, you know, the stuff that was not great about that finale, but but it hit me as a as somebody who's retiring, and him leaving the team, you know, like he has, I think there were so many as like, I feel that I feel, you know, what, he's what he feels right now. So it was emotional before it was, you know, it was critical, for sure. Absolutely. But I think that's a beautiful message. And you know, you belong here, and letting whether it's the students or the staff, no, like, we're all different. We all have different skills. And it's embracing that and pulling it together, which can truly make a school a phenomenal place. I want to get one question here before we start to wrap this up, Martin, when you look back, is there a one like memory? And I'm sure there's millions? But is there is there one memory right now that over the course of 40 years, that just pops in your head that you could share? You're right, there are a million memories. And so I'm going to pick one because we're at the end of the year, that was very effecting to me several years ago. So we had this family it was that night, the school I was at previous to this one. And we had a family move in and the parents had either divorced or the mom had passed away. But the dad had moved these two children fourth and fifth grade to our school from another city. So they they were moving here, he was no longer you know, with their mom, and I don't remember if they were divorced, or if she had passed away, but he was living with family here for support. And so he had this girl in fourth grade and a boy in fifth grade. And the he told us when he was registering them, the girls fine and the boy is a mess, right? Essentially, behavior wise than academic wise and all that. And ironically, on the first couple of days, the girl was a mess, and the boy was okay. But But the boy did eventually, you know, show he got comfortable and, and showed some true, you know, true prediction. And he but he had a teacher that was somebody who you would traditionally say she was, like, very stern very had, sometimes unreasonably high expectations, but she was consistent and she was fair, and she was with her kids, you know, loving, even though she was stern and strict. She wasn't somebody that like you would see and say I want to hug her, you know, they mean. But she, a lot of what I was explaining was something she did naturally which was finding ways for them to show that they were successful at something. Well, fast forward to the end of that school year and it's the last day of school. And the little boy is walking you know, he's waiting for to be picked up and I see he's crying. And I walk over to him and and I'm like Mike, what's, you know what's going on? Like, I would think you'd be happy, right? It's the last day you'd be done with us. And he looked at me, he said, he was crying. And he said, Why did you people make me care about you so much? And man, I mean, I just, he melted into me and I melted into him. And I thought, man, you know, like, that is how, how powerful was it that he could articulate that, and, and give me the opportunity to say, man, you know, we're gonna be here, we're, you know, we're the middle school was not terribly far that he would go to and us like, we're right here. If you need somebody, you know, if you ever need to talk to somebody here. And, you know, I would like to say the future that was he came back and visited us, but he never, he never came back. He never came back. He was still there. I ran into him and his sister, when they were probably in seventh or eighth grade at a district art show kind of thing. And, you know, he was just goofy as a kid like that. He didn't, you know, we didn't relive that sweet moment. Right. But in that moment, that's what he was, like living with, you know what I mean? And then he made me live with that, which was, we, if we ever forget what power we have? That's it right there. Yes. 100% sometimes, and you know, the journey is not always easy. And but sometimes the biggest reward is from that, and taking that moment holding on to it and not on those bad days. Just going back to that reminder of why you keep pouring in, you know, pouring into someone else's cup, and you keep showing up. And, and you never know what the result of it is. Yes. Or you may I had a this year, you know, here's another moment I had one of my been a second grader move in and the mom, I hadn't met her, but she came into the office, and she told me, our receptionist, oh, you know, when I was in school, when I was a little girl, I had a Mr. Silverman for a principal. And so my receptionist, you know, tells me to come out and she's, and she's like, it is my Mr. Silverman, you know, this woman is 34 years old. I was her principal when she was I was at a primary school. So it was only up to third grade, like maybe first, second, third grade. And as a 34 year old woman, she still could, you know, we could still have that moment, you don't look at you all grown up, and you have, you know, and all that. And so, if you don't absorb all of those, that a lot of them that stuff can can really get to you. But if you allow yourself to absorb those moments, man, it definitely, it definitely makes the bad moments a little bit easier. It sure does. The other day, we had to pray to graduate so that the high school seniors, they come to all the elementary buildings in the middle school and their cap and gown and they walk around. And that's always pretty emotional. And just that, you know, it's one of those moments, like you said, and it's hard to recognize them sometimes because they've grown so much and everything, but to see them at this point in their journey is pretty special. It's fantastic. Awesome. Now, you know, I want one more question here, too. You know, we always ask, especially, you know, someone's at the end of the career, what would you tell Martin, when he his first year? If you could go back? I want to change that up a little bit. What would you tell someone like myself? That's mid career? What would you go back and tell Martin, mid career just to keeping you on that mental finish strong to finishing on the next few years? John? Know, for sure. And I know exactly what I would say. And I wouldn't listen to me probably. But I would say all of those things that you think are so important, are probably not as important as you think they are, like, you know, what your kids middlee your test scores are, is, is important ish, but it's not in, in a couple of years, nobody's going to know about it, care about it, you know, whatever. And that's just like a little example, but but I think that's what it would be it would be like, don't, don't sweat things that seem huge. And really turn out to be nothing, and I still, you know, 40 years in Brian, I still have to tell myself that there are things that I worry about. My wife will tell me all the time. And you know, it's funny because the things that I worry about are stuff like, you know, will the award ceremonies go okay, or what are you know, what our state test scores are going to be as much as because but it's I can't do anything about those, you know, once the kids took the test, and you know, I didn't do it. So it's however they do is how they do. But I, you know, but like the award ceremonies are mine. So, you know, they're, I can either make them good or not. So I worry about that. And then she always tells me, you know, you worry about this every year, and it always turns out, okay, I was just having that conversation about these presentations I'm getting ready to do at a conference this week, and worried about them, not not worried about them nervous about them, because I just want him to go well, and they always go fine, you know, like, and so, and they do. And so I would tell you, and I would tell me, not to worry about the stuff that seems important, because the stuff that is important is, is that's what you need to be, you need to, you know, worry about when they leave you. Will they a few years later, say, Man, my second grade teacher, you know, took took care of me and he cared about me, and he did these things. Because if you think about if all of us think about you know, on my podcast, we talk about who's your favorite teacher? And then why were they the best, right? And nobody ever talks about academics, and nobody ever talks about, it's always how they made them feel like 60 episodes and 100% of the time, it's this. They made me feel it's not even specific moments, right? It's like, they made me you know, nobody had ever told me I was good at writing. Nobody had ever told me, you know, that a girl can do science, you know, those kinds of things. And so those are the important things. And we have to be just aware and cognizant, be aware and cognizant of those things. Yes, no, I think that's fantastic advice. And, you know, like you said, even right up to the last moment, for your last award show, you need to remind yourself, you know, don't sweat that. We need those reminders, my friend. Awesome. Well, a question I like to ask everybody is, what podcasts recommendation would you give? What book recommendations would you give? And I just want to say real quick, Martin, you have I know you referenced that for a second. But the the second question is your podcast, any others that you like to listen to? I listen to I listen to a few different ones that are education related. If people are, you know, trying to listen to education related ones, man, there's so many so many quality ones that I've been lucky enough to know some of the people who were who were doing those were my professional colleagues, Darren Peppard and, and Ryan Scott and, and Dave Schmidt. Oh, and I just started listening to one by a guy named Elijah Carver Hall. And, you know, there's there's so many good education related podcasts. And so all of those Dana Goodier, just all of those, but But honestly, you know, some of those true crime ones pretty entertaining. They're pretty entertaining. So you know, it just pick one. See, I used to love cereal. That was I think it was from PBS. And that I mean, those kinds of things that are that are just fun to listen to. There's one called something rhymes with purple. It's this British one that's all about just language and etymology. And it's just, like, fun to listen to. It's just something you know, to clear your mind of, of all the serious education talk. So those for sure. And then a book, I just started reading, I listened to this guy on NPR Do or do this interview. His last name is Steve Galactus. And he is a cultural anthropologist. And he wrote a book called ritual. And I'm most of the way through it, though. I've put books down, you know, right now, because I'm just trying to be in the moments right now. Right? We're, so I'm trying to enjoy that. But it's a book about human like, through history, how humans have developed rituals that make their culture be their culture, you know, and then like, it's, it seems like developing rituals is innate. And it's kind of a interesting if you're a nerd read. And so that, you know, I fit that so it's for me it is. It's not, you know, it's not going to give you like, wow, I can do stuff tomorrow, but I feel like it's adding to my knowledge bank, you know what I mean? Like, it's, I can now relate it to other things that I've seen read and experience. So ritual and the guy's last name, it's Dimitri. I think it's his first name, single axis with an X it should be easy to find. Oh, that sounds really interesting. Now if someone wanted to get in contact with you, what would be the best way? Um, you know, I have my Facebook is family and school. My The Instagram is mostly food if you're into that, I like to cook that but Twitter, you know, like for discussion kinds of stuff Twitter at Mr. Silverman 116 is probably the best place to catch up with me. Awesome. And if you could have the listeners walk away with one thing, what would that be? From our discussion, I would say create a place in your, in your school in your classroom, where you can truly say you belong here. And then, you know, be able to back that up with, with conscious efforts to provide experiences for kids that will create success for them. Yes, ah, I love that. And then I want to I love that slogan right there. So I might have to steal that there. Martin used to use it as much as you'd like. I love it, my friend. Now, I just want to say even though you are a Giants fan, and nobody's perfect, so we show forgiveness here. But what you've done, and you know, I've listened to several podcasts. And, um, that you were on, and I listened to your 50th episode of the second question. And I think you were playing clips. And I heard I think it was a former assistant principal or, or a former teacher, and he was tearing up just talking about what what you did for him. I mean, that's, that's the power that you've had. And you've given so much, whether it's to your staff, you said every system principle, the wanted to become a principal under you became one to all those students. Just thank you. Thank you for what you've given to so many. And it doesn't stop here. It's just one one door closes and many more are about to open my friend. So I hope so. I hope so. And I appreciate that. I'm just, I tell you what I'm looking so forward to not setting an alarm. I can't even tell you that's like, if anything I'm looking forward to it's not having a 5:15am Allah. Absolutely not. Those grandchildren are gonna keep you busy. Still. Looking forward to that as well. Awesome. Well, thank you so much, my friend. Hey, man, I appreciate it. Thank you so much for having me. This was such a fun conversation. When someone with 40 years of experience talks, you make sure you stop and listen, and Martin did not disappoint. Now, this is the teaching champion state where I share three of my favorite gems from this conversation. And the first gem I loved was when Martin said, we have to make an effort not to solely focus on the deficit, because that's easy to do. It happens all the time in school. But it's also easy when we're conscious of it, to see the strengths in our students to see their shine, to remind them and help them see the shine in their selves. And like we mentioned in the conversation, if you go to school every day, and you're only reminded of your shortcomings, you're only reminded of your struggles, you're reminded that you're behind. And totally how's that going to make you feel? What seeds are being planted at a young age, if all our students do is hear about their shortcomings be that person be that one that reminds us students of the gifts that they have be that one that makes it visible to them. Because sometimes our students, they don't even realize the gifts that they have. Be That One, the plant seeds in the hands of our students of how truly special they are. The second gem that I loved is when Martin talked about honoring each other, recognizing that all students learn and work differently. That's important to remember and to honor. But it's also looking at our colleagues, and really recognizing what works for the person across the hallway might not work for me. And what works for me, might not work for them. But we can honor each other. We can recognize the difference. Students may excel and connect with educators under different styles. So having different styles only makes our school stronger. It's recognizing that my teaching neighbor may have a completely different style than myself. But I can still learn so much from them and recognize the great things that they do. And the third gem that I loved is when Martin talked about creating a place for students and staff alike where one can say A, you belong here. And it's much more than a mural on a wall. It's more than a slogan on a bulletin board, or a poster in a classroom. True belonging is created in every interaction. It's how we correspond with others. It's how we talk with them, how we interact with them. Belonging is created with the small actions that we do towards one another. It's how we celebrate each other in the good times. And it's how we support one another in those tough times. So creating an atmosphere where every person who walks through the school doors knows that they belong is so important. These are just a few of my favorite gems. Hit me up on Twitter at be Martin real on Instagram at teaching champions podcast, and let me know what were a few of your favorite gems. A big thank you to Martin for sharing so much wisdom. And congratulations once again, my friend. And a big thank you to all of you for being here for supporting the teaching champions podcast. We support we encourage we lift each other up. And always remember, it doesn't matter if you're from rural America, to urban America, to Canada to Spain to Bahrain. We're all on that same team. We're on that same mission. And we're always better together. Keep being amazing, my friends and edge go out into the week may step into your strength may step into your shop, and let's build our champions. Have a great weekend.