Making Learning Sticky with Debbie Tannenbaum

What's going on everybody, I hope this finds you striving and thriving and doing absolutely amazing. My name is Brian Martin. I'm a second grade teacher and hosted the teaching champions podcast. And I hope it's been a great week for everyone who's out there supporting, encouraging and lifting others up. And we have a fantastic guest for you today. We have Debbie Tannenbaum. And she's been in the field of education for over 20 years. She's taught various grades, and she's currently an elementary technology coach. And she believes in using technology to amplify learning. And Debbie is a technology consultant, and author, a blogger and a speaker. And then this conversation, pay attention to the tips that Debbie gives about implementing technology into the classroom. The power of vulnerability, the wisdom, she drops about the people, you surround yourself with the different technology tools that we can use in our classroom, and so much more. I hope you enjoy this conversation as much as I did. I would like to welcome Debbie Tannenbaum to the teaching champions podcast, we're super excited to have you Debbie, welcome. Thank you so much for having him. So excited to be here. Yeah, and I'm excited for this one. Because one of my big goals for the school year is to incorporate more technology in the classroom and be more efficient at it. And I know, that's your expertise. So I can't wait to get some great tips from it today. Yeah, it's absolutely something I'm really passionate about, I really want to make sure that we're doing it and doing it in such a way that it really makes an impact for our students. Now, for the listeners that don't know who you are, could you please give us a little background information on your journey? And what brought you to this point? Sure. So I'm in my 23rd year of education, I kind of feel like that seems impossible. As I think about it, I started off. As an elementary school teacher, I mostly taught fourth and fifth grade back in Maryland. I'm now in Virginia. And in my first year of teaching, I started to discover the magic of using technology with my students. I was teaching fourth grade. And I was using from a scholastics resources of my fourth graders, and we were doing this Trailblazers project for African American History Month. And I just started to notice when they were writing for an authentic audience, and they were, you know, really doing that research how things kind of came alive for them. And based on that I started to do other things with, you know, at that point, mostly scholastic. And I realized that this was something I was really interested in. And I decided to get my Master's in technology back in 2002, which seemed, which is a long time ago, my 20 year old son with a baby at that point, but yeah, I've just always loved it. I've always kind of really enjoyed learning new things and putting them into practice. And, you know, as I was in my career, you know, I just was always exploring things with technology. After I got my master's learning new things. Technology's changed a tremendous amount. Since I got my master's talk about when I got my master's, I was using Netscape Navigator, which doesn't even exist anymore. But I've always just really loved it. And as I continued working with it throughout the years, and schools, when we started to use, you know, smart boards and promethium board, that was something I was really interested in. And then as we eventually went to that one to one, I just felt like it was something I took to really quickly. And I really loved giving my students those authentic experiences and watching what they could do with that. And at that point, I had mostly taught fourth and fifth grade in the so when I ended up coming down to Virginia. I was at a school where my principal was really into Twitter. And I remember thinking, Oh, my God, I can't believe this, like, This is so stupid. And she knows I tell her the story all the time. And she wanted us to join and I was like, Fine, I'll join. I had always done things like parent websites and other things to inform my parents and you know, blogs for my classroom using you know, you know, different websites, but like, I'll do it and I'll try it. And it changed my world. And I tell her that every time I see her because she's like, Oh my God, you've done all these things. I'm like, but it started with you. And so I created my class Twitter account. And as I started to do that, I start to notice there was more of a community out there than I could ever realize. I started to find podcasts and realized that there were education podcasts and I started to read book, one of the books that I always talk about was hugely influential in my journey as Casey Bell shakeup learning, I read him I was like this is, this is what I this is like kind of where I want to be. And, you know, I continued to do that got really into using the technology and my, the tech coach in my school that year was like you should apply to be a tech coach. And I was like, Well, my first year, the district, she's like, don't worry about it, just don't do it. And I became a tech coach in my district the following year. And then I was like, Well, I want other people to do these things and take these referrals. I can't expect anybody to take risks if I'm not willing to do that. And I started experimenting with things like Twitter chats, and, you know, things like that. And it just really changed everything. For me, all of a sudden, I was, before I knew it, I had a blog, I started I started my blog in February of 19. And I just started putting my voice out more after listening and consuming other people's voices, I was ready to put my voice out there. And so through that process I at the end of 2019, I just kind of asked Twitter chat, what was the one thing you would do if you couldn't do anything else. And I said, I want to write a book and Jay Bailey was the one facilitating and he's like, You should go for it. Mike started writing a book, during 2020 Great time to write a book, everybody else probably was writing book men too. And while I was in that process, I am connected with Dan pepper, who's my publisher in December of 2020, and shared my book with him and he was like this, this is awesome. Let's go with it. And lo and behold, in May 2021, on my birthday, which is really cool. My book was published transform tech enough to make learning sticky. And, you know, since the in addition to that, it's been starting to present more and share my voice, I really am passionate about student creation, and you know, amplifying student agency. And so I've really been trying to spread my message, it's I feel like feel different than others messages. And I really want you know, they talked about 65% of the jobs that are going to exist for our students when they're done school don't exist. Now. I want to make sure that our students at a young age start with these opportunities. And so that's kind of where I'm at now, I was really excited to be part of another book, amplified instructional design that came out in June of this current year, I was one of three contributing authors. And I'm just enjoying all that I get to do because I really feel like I get to help teachers make their job easier because their teachers have so much on their plates right now, I give you credit with all you do, because it's a hard job. And my job is to help teachers do their job easier, and help them find ways to help their students learn in new and innovative ways. Because they don't always have the time to do that. It's my job to help them do that. That's fantastic. And having read your book, one thing that I think that you really illustrate is that taking risks, being willing to put yourself out there, and from going into Twitter and looking outside your school walls. Because just like you I think Twitter has been so pivotal in my own growth. Because there's so many people out there that are doing great things that we can learn from what can be inspired by. And I love how you talked about you listen to their voices, it made you reflect because reflections are such a big thing that we can learn and grow from. And now you're using your own voice and you're putting out a ton of content, which I absolutely love. You're doing great things, Debbie. I know from reading your book, one of the things is near and dear to your heart is that student agency in that creation? What are some ways that you look to bring that into your schools? I just think it's really important. And one of the things I realized really early on when I talked about student agency was that I was trying to help have my students use technology tools where they didn't really understand how to use them. And so whenever I talk about creating, especially creating with littles, which I present about a ton I always start with that. I talk about how I used to do my kindergarten game of Whack a Mole where I'd help one kid and another kid would pop up and I'd be Boston. So I was really lucky listening to a podcast I heard of Asa fatahna talk about how she used icons to help her students learn. It's something that's really influenced me and something I've kind of taken with and Ron. So I do a lot of work with my students really making sure they understand the language of technology. And you know, I you know, this year I'm in a new building, where I had been in a building where I had really worked on a lot of this and some reintroducing it and telling kids, you know, what are these pictures? These are icons, and what does an icon do? It's a picture that tells us to do something, let's make sure we understand what these pictures tell us to do. And really being in Have you no explicit and how I'm showing them how to do that. So when they see that picture her username, they understand what it mean that sometimes I think we just assume kids know things that they're digital natives. They don't know those things, and explaining to the kids what a password is, and when kids are getting on the program saying to them, okay, these are the tools we're going to use, what do you think these tools are going to help you do? You know, getting a little bit that prediction and inferencing in. So I think that's super important. It's something that I found, really made a difference with as my younger learners, but with my older learners as well. So even when I'm working with my fourth, fifth or sixth grade learners, I still do that. And so I've really been explicitly teaching that another thing that I've been doing with that, that's been a huge thing is, I'm in the midst of my Etsy certification journey, and I'm eventually going to finish it, it's a little harder for me than I thought it was going to be not because I can't do it, but finding time and concentration to do it. And so one of the things I realized during my journey was I wasn't doing enough with rubrics, I was really good at rubrics as a classroom teacher, but not so great as a technology coach. So I've created this thing, I call it Ed Rubicon, where I partner icons on the left with the function of the content of on the right. So you know, this is what your goal, this is what you're looking for. And this is what you're going to do with that with that criteria for success on the right side. And it's something that's made a huge difference with my students. Because before this with my students, I would create almost an algorithm where they have a list of steps with pictures, but they never really understood where each of those steps correlated with what they had to do. So by creating this edu Rubicon, which is what I call it, it's really helped my students with that, and it's made a big difference. And, you know, now my kindergarten students are going to be getting iPads. Well, they haven't done that yet. But I've still started with them, using the ED Rubicon, even like this week, where they were making what they thought was an example of a computer with playdough. And then drawing it, well, I'm still putting the icons on one side and the words on the other side. So I'm building that process with them where they can connect the visual, hitting in that universal design for learning with also with the with what they need to do. So that's been a really big thing for me to do that. And also, when I talk about creation, really focusing with creation, on tools that really help students create a lot of times I think we just take tools, and we're like, oh, well, they say they're good for students. And I really talk about what I call my three C's, the idea that it has to offer a choice of how to respond, it has to have collaboration available. And then it also that last part has to be clickable those icons really need to be able to be used. So those are the things that I really trying to been trying to focus on with my students, because I want to make sure a lot of times we talk a big deal about collaboration, but we think it's for older students, even kindergarteners can collaborate. If they're given the right conditions to collaborate, we just have to baffle them. And, you know, I try, my goal is to make it so that these things can happen early to our kids. And then when they get older, they already did that part is firmly in place. And they can really focus on that creation even deeper. That's great. And I love how you talked about building that foundation. Having that foundation is so important. And you also touched upon, which I really appreciate is, even though these students, even the youngest ones, they're digital natives, I have second graders that show up and they already have cell phones, which blows my mind, but they already have cell phones, they know what to do with them. But sometimes we do take for granted what they know, even though they can operate it. So I love how you talk about the icons, really putting that visual out there so that they can make those connections. It's, it's amazing to see what they can do. I just it takes me away when I watched that. And I felt like I was doing a lot of rescuing of students for a long time. And so when I have something like my edu Rubicon up on the board for my students, and they're like, I'm lost. I'm like, Well, what did you do next? Show me what you just clicked and they're like, Oh, you click that. Like, look, you're at step two. Let's see what pictures on step three, can you find it on your screen? And instead of giving my students all the answers, I'm empowering them to help them find the answers. And so students get used to the fact that I will, I am not going to come and do anything for them. Even if they're struggling with finding a number for their username, I'm putting my finger next to it on the keyboard. They're like, well, aren't you going to do it for me? No, I'm putting my finger. I'm giving you the scaffold now you're gonna click on it. And I just think that's so important because a lot of I think during COVID A lot of times our students got really used to people doing things for them as well. And we really need to make sure that we build that stamina, that agency that perseverance, because a lot of our students don't have that right now. 100% and that's powerful. Yes, empowering them not showing them that telling them but empowering them walking them through it. And they're so much more proud of themselves when they actually do it. And you know, so I just think that's so important, you know, and it's all those. And it's funny, because it's not just with the technology. Yes, that's super important. But those little things that get them there, too. What are we doing for our students versus what? Or how can we help them do those things? Technology's one avenue for that. But it's really important that they learn these things, because the programs that they're going to use and see are not going to look like these down the road. But if they built the skills, and you know, and they understand how things work, that's the important part. 100%. That's awesome. Now, we were talking beforehand. And one thing that you've introduced me to that I didn't know about, so maybe there's some listeners out there that don't know about this, either. Is this project zero thinking? Can you explain that project zero thinking a little bit for us? So Harvard's Department of Education, one of the initiatives, it's called Project Zero, and Project Zero really focuses on the idea of that thinking is an intentional part of learning, and that we really need to help our students learn how to think and so Ron Ritchhart is the leader in this work, I was really lucky. I think I went through two or three years, I was part of their summer institute for teachers in DC. And so I actually got to meet Ron, I've read his book. And so he talks about these thinking routines as being scaffold. And there are lots of different types of thinking routines. And so I always think about it in terms of you look for the thinking routine that like it's like a tool, what type of thinking do you want your students to do? So for example, if I want my students to be introduced to ideas, there's a whole, there's like quite a few different thinking routines that are meant for introducing ideas. One of the ones I happen to really love is called chalk talk. And so I always try to start off with that match. And then once I've done that match, it gives you scaffolds. First you do this, then you do this. And finally you do this, usually it's in three parts, sometimes four. And it really helps our students to reveal their thinking, because a lot of times will say, Well, why do you think that and they don't know where to go. And so you know, for example, for chalk talk, and ask them to brainstorm as many words as they can think of based on a particular topic. Well, most kids are able to do that brain dump and put that out. But then in the second part, they're looking and making connections to other people thought. And so that's a really powerful thing for students to do. And it's not a stuff we would normally do with students, we would put it all out there and be like, Okay, now I see what everybody knows, when they have to make connections to others. That's super powerful. And then finally asking them what questions they have based on what they saw other people wrote. So the interesting thing about thinking routines is that they're, there's quite a few of them, but they're not something that you can just like collect like stickers, or like, you know, it really works most effectively to introduce one really get good at it, and then continue with others. And so I really think about when I'm working with my students, which one is going to give me the highest impact if I might use it with them more than one time. And I it's something that I definitely use when I do my, my professional development, I use them always as part as those parts, because I feel like a lot of times with professional development, we throw information at people, and then we don't give them time to process. So when I'm doing my session, after 1520 minute chunks, I'll say, Okay, we're gonna do with thinking routine. And then I'll give that time to process. Because I feel like that's so important for us as adults to know as adults, we might be able to cognitively handled learning doing more than one at a time. So for our students, it's really important to be intentional, and the kids, the kids really enjoy doing it. And it creates these artifacts of learning, which I just think are so cool. We talked about creating. And sometimes we think we're creating, we have to make something from scratch. But with thinking routines you're creating, you can create artifacts of learning by having students participate in those, you know, these routines really getting their thinking at a deeper level. And it just really made a huge difference with the kids I've worked with. It helps them think about things in new ways. And I always joke when I do the session on thinking routines, and I introduced the project zero toolbox, people are like, How did I not know this existed? And I was like, well, that's my gift to you, you know, but I always tell them, it's like an all you can eat buffet, there's so much out there, you can't take it all. Take your plate, pick one or two that you really want to focus on, get good at them and then decide what's next. Because you don't want to get overwhelmed by it. And so it's been a really amazing part of my journey. I'm really what the same principle who introduced me to Twitter introduce me the thinking routine. And I just think that it's a great way to get our kids thinking deeper and really synthesizing things because we can Google almost anything but that's synthesis. Sighs that deep, you know that reflecting and like really looking deep into things. That's something our kids really need. And it's something that no assessment is really going to test. I love this. And I love how you talked about what type of thinking do you want your students to do starting off with that, and then absolutely, making that visible the steps to scaffold it is just phenomenal. And I think teaching our students making it visible, that there's different thinking routines that take place, even for us, I can't wait to dive into this a little bit more and understand the different thinking routines for my own learning. And the thing that's really great about it is, you know, though, that alone is really great. But so many technology tools lend themselves to these. So like, you know, when I do something like a chalk talk with my students, well, not happy, but I'm sorry, jam board is an excellent tool for that. Because they can post the sticky notes up, and then they can use textboxes and make their connections to each other. So like really thinking about that has been really important for me, because so many times when our students share their thinking, the only person who gets to see their thinking is the teacher. Correct. And so like, right now, my fourth graders are doing a thinking routine called Color symbol image where they're reflecting on what a digital citizen, the super digital citizen is, they have to pick a color that they think reflects and explaining why they have to pick a symbol that they think reflects it and explain why. And then they have to pick an image. Well, each of them is working on their own work, we're going to take that work, and we're going to put it into a collaborative class book so that everybody can see each other's thinking. And I just think things like that are so important. You know, we don't give our when we tell everybody's thinking is visible in that learning community. We're showing that everybody's thinking matters. And there's so many students I don't think are engaged because they feel like what they think doesn't matter. That's a mic drop right there, Debbie, absolutely showing that every student's thinking matters, because some of them don't think that they're thinking matters. Yeah. Oh, and I just, I just think I just think that that's been such, it's really, and it's amazed me how many people you know, for me, I've been in schools for the last two schools, I've been where we've really promoted a lot of this stuff. And you know, now I'm in a new building, maybe not everybody knows about it. And so there's so much stuff to do there, we have to really be strategic with what we do. And if we can find a way to help our students in a way that will engage our students who might not traditionally be engaged, because some of these thinking routines are going to have our students think in different ways. We want to make sure we can do that, you know, it's the, they're learning how to share their thinking is probably one of the most powerful thing that we can give them. I 100% agree with that. That's fantastic. Now, what are some other edtech tools that you would recommend to transform learning for our students? I think the when I think about those, like go back to those three C's I mentioned earlier, that choice, that collaboration, and the click of NBN clickable. I know for my youngest learners, two of the programs that I really really think are amazing, are Wixey, which is by tech for learning. And then I recently became a huge fan of Book Creator. Because they give our students so many opportunities that are really clickable their students can really learn those icons. I love the fact that both of them offer our students multiple ways to share their learning, they can share their learning in a video with audio, text to speech and speech to text and they can use images and they can do pictures. So I love the fact that those two programs especially for our offer those opportunities but both of those programs, and both of them are paid subscription, but I have ways of getting you those, you know they offer also collaboration or students can work together and collaboration. I think it's such an important thing for our students. Check tools like an or tech, even free tech tools. paradex flashcard factory is an amazing resource that most people don't know about. It allows our students to work one student is the artist one student is they're called the writer I call it the detective and they work collaboratively together to create flashcards. I've had my young my second graders, one student draw how to solve that family and other student writes the family they put it together, they're standing next to each other working together. There's power when we let our kids work together and and feel a responsibility towards helping each other. You know, so those are some of the ones I also really love Canva for older students I haven't played with Canva as much as our younger students with Canva is an extremely powerful learning tool. There's so much our students can do with it, getting our students to build things like infographics to learn how to do some of that video design stuff and was like blip, where our students can really share their learning, gather, those are just a few that I think are just really amazing tools. And they give our students the opportunity by always, you know, talk to my students about the fact that we never use a technical if it's not helping us do something we couldn't do without the tech tool. That's really powerful. And if we could do it on paper, we're not going to use technology to do it. And so I really am intentional when I talk to my students about that, and my educators about that, because if you're doing something that you could do on paper, and there's no change whatsoever, then you shouldn't be using that technology, like we have to really think about why we're adding the check in, because we have enough to do, don't make something difficult unless the technology is actually going to provide an added benefit. So I think that's just really important. Sometimes people like, oh, you're a tech person, you want me to do everything on the computer. No, I want you to use the technology to give your kids opportunities to learn and share their learning in ways that you couldn't do without it. I think that's another powerful statement right there that, you know, technology is a tool, it's not the end all be all. And if you're not using it to enhance the learning, then let's put it by the wayside. But and when you talk about, we use it to amplify the learning to share it to take it to new levels. And thank you for there's some great suggestions that you have right there. Now problem. One thing is the school year get started that I run into. So I go to the strainings introduced to some fantastic technology. But then I get back into the classroom, and I had the full intention to incorporate them. But it ends up falling by the wayside just because of the hustle and bustle. And I'm always trying to get things done. Do you have any tips that maybe you give your own educators or when you're presenting to educators to help streamline it? So it's a little bit easier in the implementation into the classroom? Absolutely. One of the things that I've been working with the educators that I've worked with over the past two, especially two years, is I have a framework I use called the planning with intent. And what I do with that is I always start with the idea that if that we have to identify those learning goals. I feel like a lot of times people start planning technology with a tool. That doesn't, that's not where we have to start. Once we've identified those learning targets, I talked about noticing where handles for learning might be needed. Is there something in the lesson you're teaching where kids are not quite getting it that they need a handle away to hold on to it? I think that's really important when we're doing that, because if we don't do that, we might make a mismatch. And then really taking time to look at your tech toolbox. I always talk about my tech toolbox is really about five tools with five on the side. If you have more than that it gets really overwhelming. But thinking about well, what tech tools might be able to help me meet that need. And it's really, we're very lucky, in my district, all of our elementary schools have a tech coach, you know, we're used in a variety of different roles, we're partnering a schedule, we do this, we do that. But having somebody to talk that through is also really important. And figuring in and figuring out with that, and envisioning how that technical is going to help you meet that need this really then taking it to that II and then trying it, we are going to try tech tools that are going to flop. And that's okay. There's been many times where I've wanted to teach a lesson and you know, the websites down that day or whatever. But take time to do that tool. And then the most important part, I think is then taking that time to reflect afterwards. So that's how I approach this with my educators. It's not okay, what tool are you going to use? What do you want your students to do? Where do they need that support? Where is that handling that where that handles needed? Then look at the toolbox. It's step three, it's not step one, and then figuring out how that textbook is going to help your students because so many times we've jumped to tackle and that doesn't benefit our students. You know, an example of that my students are having trouble, you know, sharing, you know, using the math terminology when we're when we're studying, you know, we're studying to win 3d shapes. This is a second grade example I did last year. Well Desmos has this great activity called a polygraph and Desmos is a polygraph is like a guest who with math, students are partnered up you can choose whether they're partnered up and anonymously work. They know who their partner is, and they asked each other one person to guess or a one person Bluetooth or the chooser picks one of the 16 pictures maybe at the cube and then the guesser says is it a 3d shape and types it in The kid goes, Yes. And then they eliminate all the 2d shapes as guests who, well, this by doing this, you can I always have a list of terms on the board, but they're then using that vocabulary with each other. And they're practicing that vocabulary. Well, you couldn't do that that way. Any other way. And every kid is engaged, you as the educator are getting all this good data on the teacher dashboard, seeing what language your kids are using? Well, that's a powerful way of using technology. And it's something that has an impact, but it might not be something that you would think of. And so that's why you just really need to think or that flashcard factory having your kids, right learnt, you know, every standard has something like you have to write word problems based on the scenario, will cluster factory kids can write a word problem and show how to solve it put that together. So things like that I never tried to make it complicated. I always tried to say, Okay, what do we want our kids to do? And let's find a tool that helps them do that. And I think that when you think of it that way, we went from a place where everybody use technology for everything during a little bit. And then we went back into buildings, and I saw things like Pear Deck packets, which makes me cringe. You can't do paired up with a packet, let's think about how we're going to use that technology in a really intentional way with our students. And then figure out Did it have the impact it needed? Because there are times where I'll do something. And I'll be like, Oh, that wasn't what I wanted the kids to get out of it. And I'll revisit it. And then their attention like, oh, wow, that was really great. How can I use this idea more other places? Yeah, that that is fantastic. And I love how you said, technology isn't step one. No. It's, you know, how can we use it after we know what our goal is? And I also think it's really important what you said, there are some times when we're going to use technology, and it's going to be fantastic. There's going to be other times when we're we try something, and it's going to flop and we have to be okay with it flopping. And then. But that doesn't mean that we have to abandon it, to reflect upon it. What do I need to do different? How can I incorporate it in a different way? Or what are the steps that I need to lay out for the students a little bit differently? Well, it's like the example I shared with the polygraph. The first time I did it, I just had kids writing questions. And I realized that they didn't have to spell any of the word. Well, after going through that, I was like, I'm gonna make up a question bank and put it on the board. And at that point, Wordle was huge. And I'm like, What's your starting question? Like, what's your starting word? You know, but the first time I did that, I didn't do it like that. And I was doing a session for people in my district, and someone said, Oh, I never thought about putting the questions up. I'm like, Well, I made the mistake, I figured out it didn't work that like, and even our older learners need those words. But we want to get them practicing using those words. We're not judging them on spelling those words. No, I love that. Can you share with our listeners a little bit about your book that you have come out with. So this is my book, I know it's not on video. But it's called transform techniques to make learning sticky. It's really my journey. So it talks about how when I first started teaching, I talked before behind closed doors, and how I really began to look at how technology could be used and how it could empower my students. The first part of the book really focuses heavily on the student view, it focuses on things like how to amplify learning with creation, and it talks about nurturing student agency. And then in the second part of the book, it really focuses on the educator, because far too often books don't give our educators that piece. Technology transformed a lot of what I did for my students, but it also transformed what I do as an educator. And so it talks about seeking connections outside of your school, you know, finding your PLN and then offering your voice and then really reaching further, I really try to model for the educators that I work with that I don't ever stay and do the same thing over and over again, I'm constantly trying new things. I'm taking risks. Sometimes they're really working, sometimes they're not. But I'm always trying to reach that little bit further. And sometimes I do think the terrify me. I just went into some PD for a big district in Texas. And as I was going there, I was just like, What am I doing? It was amazing. But sometimes you have to go just that little bit further from your comfort zone. And I like to model that for my teachers. It's even my four kids at home knowing that I do that as well. I see. I my 16 year old daughter just wrote a personal narrative where she talked about how she had been scared to do something and she pushed us beyond our comfort zone and I'm like yeah, so and then the book kind of ends really talking about ways that you can maximize learning the impact and I'm really proud of it. You know, there's definitely things that I've that I've done since the book that I am you know our thing But I've been sharing in my blog, but I feel like it really tells educators that you don't need to be this, you know, huge like, it's not a perfect journey, like, I went through some really tough times in my journey where I'm there, especially two times where I thought about leaving. It's not about a perfect journey where everything goes, Teaching isn't is a bumpy journey. And sometimes you have to go through those rough times to get to those better times. And I want teachers to know that, you know, I was so afraid to be vulnerable in the first part of my teaching journey, because I was afraid I was gonna get in trouble. Now, I feel like my vulnerability is my biggest strength. So letting teachers know that you have a story to share, share it, try new thing, and know that there, there are so many people who helped me along my journey, and they didn't expect a thing for me, they just wanted to see me succeed. And that's what I want to be able to do with others. And you know, so I think that that's really, really important. Because, you know, if somebody hadn't encouraged me to share my voice, then I wouldn't have done it. It was it's hard to put your voice out there. And you know, have people say, Well, why are you saying this? Or why are you saying that, but it's important, because, you know, I think a lot of educators are afraid to share our voices. Because a lot of us who are educators are essentially the good kids who you know, want to follow the rules and sit and color in between the line. And sometimes it's hard for us to stretch beyond that. But if we really want to improve education, we have to stretch beyond that. I love that. And thank you for sharing that. And every educator has a voice, every educator has something to share, but I completely agree with you. That is it can be very difficult to share your voice because you're worried about being judged or how you're going to be perceived. And but we need to move past that. And the more you do it, and I think that you probably could agree, because you really put yourself out there that the more you do it, the easier it becomes there's still gonna be those moments that are very difficult to put your voice out there. But it gets easier. And I think, would you agree that there's always going to be naysayers sometimes, but there's always going to be more voices that are supportive, that have your back to cheer you on. I absolutely agree. And I sometimes think that you also have to think about what environments you're in. And if you're in an environment where you're finding that everybody is a naysayer, is that really the environment that's going to help you grow? I think that's a really important thing to keep in mind. Because you know, the people who are around you really do influence what you do. And you know, you want to be in a place where you feel like you can grow and you can change. And, you know, I see so many educators that are afraid to change because they want to stick to what kind of work and we can't be we can't stick to a kind of horse, we've got it, we've got to push that envelope because our kids, the way what we needed to serve be adults is not what our kids need. And I just think that's so important to you know, remember is that it was back 1010 or 10 years ago or so my superintendent when I taught him Maryland's like we shouldn't be teaching kids things that they can Google, well, that hasn't changed, but we're still teaching kids things that they can move on. But we really need to think about that. And I you know, I understand, you know, there are bigger things in play when it comes to assessment and things like that. And, you know, we're, you know, we have to know that data. But we also need to think about well, what we measure what we what we test what we measure, you know, matters type things, and what are we really messages are we giving our kids absolutely in that so well is that when when you talked about the people, you surround yourself that if it's not a positive environment, then find the courage to get into a different environment. And it's hard. I mean, going from, you know, George Perez talks about going from an you know, an uncomfortable average to you know, a, that's something better. But it really does make a difference. And I want to also model that not just for my students, but for my kids at home, you know, I want them to know that they can push themselves and do that as well. And so I think that that's a really important message. I mean, the kids that I work with, they know that I have a blog, they see me tweeting out pictures of them, they see me, you know, the new kids I'm working with now maybe not so much. It's a little weak theory, but they they'll know those things. And they'll know that I take rest and we do those things, and I want them to know, like when we go into we're starting a tech crew tomorrow. And we're going to use design thinking What problems does a school need to solve with using technology? I don't have the answers there. The end user, I am the one but I'm gonna use them to share they need and then we're gonna design things that they need for their school. It's not about me, I'm just gonna give them that platform. And those support to do that. We need to give our staff we need to partner with our students with our communities more and really build on that. Absolutely. And I love how you talked about like, We're the biggest modelers, you know, how we go out? And how we model? How do we model how we handle adversity? How do we model when we, we get to something and we don't know what to do? You know, do we go out there and show them that we find the answer, and that we talked to other people? Do we model putting your voice out there and being a lifetime long learner? Yeah. It's just so important. And sometimes you just don't realize what kids are getting from you. Even if it you know, even if either one, they're watching everything we do our interactions with our colleagues, their interactions with other students, they're paying attention. And we have to be mindful of all of that. And so we have to really be showing them and like, that was one of the things I thought was best about COVID Yes, teachers learned a ton. But teachers also admitted they didn't know that thing. So many teachers were like, Oh, I'm still learning this new thing. I'm still learning this whatever thing and kids would help them kids would work with them. Like we it's a learning community. So I just think that that was really important. I saw more teachers show that vulnerability during COVID, because they didn't have their what you know, things were a little bit less strict in a lot of ways. And they felt like they have that wiggle room. 100% and Daniel Coyle, he does a big on culture. He has a book called The culture code, another one called the culture code playbook. Phenomenal author. And he says, like when we talk about school culture, three things. It's trust, vulnerability, and belonging. And that vulnerability piece, being able to say, hey, I don't know, I'm not perfect. So perfect. And Debbie, I just want to say, when we talk about the modeling, how powerful is it, that your daughter's sitting there writing a personal narrative about Oh, my God, I was like, I was like, I was so happy, like, and I've seen, I've, you know, we, my husband, and I have four kids between the two of us and like seeing each of them say things like that. And like, five years ago, they wouldn't have said something like that, because I wasn't modeling something like that. It's been really amazing to see that and when I read her, she she shared it with me on Google yesterday, when I read it, I was like, like, this is it like, this, just this alone has made my day. That is phenomenal. Now, what is a podcast or a book that you would recommend to others? Besides my book? No, I'm just joking. No, absolutely, definitely recommend your Well, the last book I just read, I would love to recommend. It's called Moving beyond it by Carly Spina. And it's really an amazing book when it talks about working with your English language learners. I just read it. I know her people that might teach better family as well. I just love how she really, it's, it's been a really good reflective moment for me. Thinking about how I interact with my learners, and the messages that sometimes we give our learners without even thinking about it. That whole reflection piece again, but it's an excellent book, I went to one of her sessions where she was talking about parent communication. That's a big thing I'm working on this year, is trying to make parent engagement a two way street. And it's just was it's a really, really good book. It's out of the books I've read recently. Definitely one of my favorites. I listened to too many to recommend one or two. Like I'm the person who has, I always have so much on my podcast be like I can never keep up like I am on your podcasts out right now. There are so many great ones out there. I mean, I love yours. I really enjoyed evolving with gratitude with leaning Ral I love Darren podcast. I you know, there's just so many amazing podcasts out there. You know, I, I find that I just like okay, which ones know that I can listen to? I just I love learning and to me like my car rides are my opportunity to learn through listening 100% And there's so many great voices out there to be heard. It's it's just, it's phenomenal. Excellent. If people want to connect with you, what's the best way they can connect me? Pretty much Tanenbaum tech on all social media. My Websites Tanenbaum tech.com. I have a Facebook group. I am on Twitter. Twitter's where I'm mostly at. I have LinkedIn. I have Instagram. I'm not really that great with Instagram. I did Tik Tok for a little bit so I have an account. I have to work on that a little bit. But pretty much if you search Tanenbaum tech, you'll be able to find me. And if you want to email me, it's Debbie at Tanenbaum tech.com in your newsletter and blog or right on there as well. My newsletter, you can sign up either from my website or, or if there's links usually linked in my blog, my newsletter goes out now bi monthly and my blogs going out bi monthly. And they're connected, I'm doing a series right now called the ABCs, of Transforming Learning. And this, this week, we're recording this, I just did one on amplifying student voice talking about two Wixey and Book Creator. So I'm trying to really stick to basics and give like one or two tips each month that teachers can implement, try see what they want to do with sticking with that whole idea of we have to start simple, and we can't try to do everything at once. And if you just try a tool to amplify student boys, see how it goes, then you then let's talk about the next step though not trying to pile on. For a while I was writing like blogs every four days, and I couldn't keep up with the pace. And I want to make sure the content I'm putting out not only is valuable, but it's also something I can keep up with as a mother of four working a full time job and doing other things on the side. So I'm, you know, trying to really focus on that right now. You know, as I continue to figure you know, out how I best serve educators, but if I heard one thing this year, it's that there's a lot going on. And I want to make sure what I'm giving is quick and simple and not overwhelming. That's great. Now, if you could have the listeners walk away with one thing, what would that be? Don't do it alone. You do not need to do this alone. And if you're doing this alone, you're making your job harder. There is somebody out there who is doing something similar to you who you can rely on. Don't be afraid of social media, you know, don't be afraid. If you're afraid of Twitter, find a Facebook group where you can get support. Don't be afraid to try or if you if you're if you're younger than I am, and you're really into Instagram or Tiktok. See what ideas you can find. Don't do this alone. Because if you're doing this alone, you're leaving all of those thoughts to gather in your head and explode. And there's no, you don't need to do that. Great Teaching is not some secret recipe, like we are all doing the same thing. We all want our students to succeed. And so many times we're like, Well, I'm part of this district, or I'm part of that district, we deal with things differently. We're all doing the same thing. So reach out and find people who you can connect with. You know, there's so many great things like, you know, I said, I'm part of the teach better network, which obviously, I think is phenomenal. But there's so many other great networks that you can rely on and learn from and just listen to a podcast, or blog, find something that fits into your life, that leaves you feeling a little less alone, because it's really easy to silo yourself as an educator. That's perfect. And Debbie, I just want to thank you for being here. This has been a fantastic conversation you've given us so many takeaways. But I also want to thank you, you know, reading your book, this is the first time that we've connected but reading your book, hearing your journey, listening to talk, you You're an inspiration, and you truly you truly model, putting yourself out there stepping into that uncomfortableness, and sharing so many great things. And I think the proofs in the pudding. When we look at what your daughter said, Yeah, I mean, what more validation do you need than to see that right there. But you're absolutely, you're an inspiration to your daughter than your family. But you're also an inspiration to so many educators out there. So I can't wait to see i This is only the beginning for you. So I can't wait to see where this goes. Thank you so much for having me. And I love the fact that you share on your podcast and that you spend us that you reflect and you do all those things too. Because although for me doing a podcast, it's not something I'm currently ready to do. I love the fact that you that you have this medium where you share so much and you put out so much wonderful stuff to the world as well. Well, I appreciate that, Debbie. I think you know, we all find our medium, our place where we do it, but you're doing great things, my friend. You too. Thanks so much for having me. Yes, thank you. Debbie is such a wonderful woman. And she just illustrates the beauty of a podcast that all of us, we get to sit down and we get to learn from someone like Debbie who has so much to share. Now this is the teaching champion state where I share three of my favorite takeaways. The first step was one And Debbie talked about her edu Rubicon and how she uses visuals to help her students really grasp onto and make those connections to the different tools and the things that she wanted them to do. And remember her three C's choice, collaboration and clickable, that we want our students have the choice to respond, we want them to have that collaboration to be available, and that we want those icons to be clickable. The second gem that I really appreciated, was when Debbie talks about being intentional with our technology, that if it doesn't amplify learning in some way, shape or form, then maybe we shouldn't be using it. And then lesson creation, the use of technology shouldn't be step one, it should be step three. And the third gem that I loved, is how Debbie talked about not just staying the same, that she's constantly modeling for others, that she's taking risks. And sometimes, those are extremely successful. And sometimes they fall short. And she talks about doing things that terrify her, and how she's modeled that for her family and her children have noticed that. And that's such an important reminder to all of us, that some of the most impactful lessons that we give to our students that we give to our peers that we give to our families, is how we carry ourselves what we model in our day to day activities. There was so many great takeaways besides these. So hit me up on social media at be Martin real on Twitter, and tell me what were some of your favorite takeaways. A big thank you to Debbie for this episode. And thank you to all of you. The teaching champions community is pretty special. It's filled with people who are out there, supporting, encouraging, lifting others up. And if you think someone will benefit from this episode, please share it. It helps the podcast grow. And hopefully this podcast adds a little value to all of you. And always remember, it doesn't matter if you're from rural America, to urban America, to Canada to Spain to Bahrain. We're all on that same team. We're all on that same mission. And we're always better to gather. Keep being amazing, my friends, and as you go out into the week, May you step into your strength may step into your shine, and let's build our champions out. Have a great week, everybody