Artificial Intelligence: How to Start The Learning Process in your School District … Safely

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Hello,

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and welcome to the TeacherCast

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Educational Network.

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My name is Jeff Bradbury,

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and welcome to Digital Learning Today.

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On today's episode,

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we're going to be talking

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all about artificial intelligence.

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We're going to be defining what it is,

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how school districts are

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currently taking advantage of it,

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and how you can safely

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deploy it in your classroom.

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I have a fantastic guest on today,

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Dr. Jane Lammers from Edmentum.

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Dr. Lammers, how are you today?

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Welcome to TeacherCast.

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Thank you, Jeff.

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I'm doing great.

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And I'm really looking

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forward to talking with you

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about this subject that

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everybody is talking about.

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I am so excited to have you on.

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You know,

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we've been talking about

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artificial intelligence here.

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It seems like forever.

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Every single time we have a guest come on,

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it's the topic that we have to bring up.

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But I'm excited about having

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you on today because we've

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never really had a chance

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to really start from ground zero,

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start from the beginning here.

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Before we get into those fun questions,

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tell us a little bit about

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yourself and what's

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happening these days at Edmentum.

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Well, thanks for that invitation.

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So, Jeff,

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I was a teacher educator for 15 years.

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I worked in higher education.

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I was a tenured professor at

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the University of Rochester.

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I was a Fulbright scholar

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who got to travel to

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Indonesia just before the

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pandemic and conduct

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research with a partner

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down there on the digital

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literacy practices of Indonesian youth.

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Had a lot of fun doing that

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and was I ran an English

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teacher preparation program

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and also advised doctoral

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students and really enjoyed

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studying how young people

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use technology for their

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own interest driven learning purposes.

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So that's where I kind of came from.

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I was an English teacher

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prior to going into higher ed.

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But as with many folks,

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the pandemic changed things, right?

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And I wanted to be closer to family.

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I wanted to have greater impact.

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There was something about

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the pandemic and the remote

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emergency instruction that

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happened as a result that

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really put what I had been studying,

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which was how are people

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using technologies,

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into the forefront and into

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the conversation.

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And then an opportunity came

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up and I am now the

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Director of Learning Design at Edmentum.

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We are a K-12 digital curriculum provider.

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We aim to be the premier

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learning acceleration

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company that helps get

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young people all across the

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country and in countries around the world

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back up to speed and beyond

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in their learning.

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And we use technology to do

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that in a variety of ways.

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We have intervention programs.

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We also have fully online

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courses and a fully online academy.

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And so my job is to make

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sure that what we know

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about good learning is

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built into the design of our products.

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And when you say good learning,

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how do you define that,

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especially in 2024?

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What does good learning look like?

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What does good learning look like?

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Well,

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engagement is on top of mind for most

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of the educators I talk to

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and most of the school district folks.

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How do we actually get young

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people to be and remain

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engaged in the learning

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that happens in their

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formal schooling environments,

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especially after the years

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of disengagement?

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And what I would argue is

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couple that with all of the

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engagement that they get in

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other kinds of social media

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and other kinds of social

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learning spaces.

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Young people need engaging learning.

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So that's the first

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definition of good learning.

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It's engaging learning.

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It meets learners where they

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are and then helps to

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leverage what they already

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do know and get them to

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where they need to be.

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I love that definition.

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Just a few hours before we

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did this recording,

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I brought home a Google

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Sheets project that I'm

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going to be giving in my

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middle school soon.

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And my middle school kids

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know that before they get any assignment,

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it has to pass a series of three tests.

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And those tests, of course,

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are my triplets.

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So tonight,

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my triplets were doing these

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Google Sheets homeworks.

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They're in fourth grade,

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but they were doing the

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middle school level work.

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And just as you were saying,

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meet the kids where they are,

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give them something engaging,

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and just sit back and watch what it is.

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Adventum, of course, is in 43,000 schools,

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hitting 420,000 educators

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and 5.2 million students in

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all 50 states.

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I'm looking forward to this conversation.

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You want to just dive right into this?

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Absolutely.

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Let's go.

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Some people think that

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artificial intelligence is only chat GPT.

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We've got different terms, right?

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We've got generative AI.

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We've got design AI.

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We've got text-based AI.

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We've got AI in different

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products like Canva and

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Adobe and Microsoft and all

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of these different things.

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So I'm going to ask you,

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I'm going to put you on the

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hot seat here.

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Millions of educators have

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just stopped their cars and

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pulled over to the side.

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Jane?

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How do you define the term generative AI?

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When I'm talking about generative AI,

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I am talking about any of

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the tools that will generate

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new content because they are

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using the artificial

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intelligence that they have

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been programmed with to look for patterns,

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to call from whatever large

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language model usually,

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so whatever big batch of

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data they were given, to give the user

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a response or a creation,

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because it could be

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image-based if we're

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talking about something

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like DALI or mid-journey or in Canva,

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could be design-based, right?

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But it gives the user what

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it thinks it wants.

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So that's important to know

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that it provides what it

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thinks you want based on

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the prompt you gave it and

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based on its training and in its model.

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That sounds like my triplets.

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Let me see what we can get a

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couple of things here.

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If I go on to a Google search and I say,

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I need a recipe for cookies.

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Is that generative AI?

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I'm putting in a prompt.

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It's giving me something.

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Is that generative AI?

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No, that's a search, right?

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And artificial intelligence

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might be involved in the search,

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but that's not necessarily generative AI.

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We'll say like when you're

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starting to type,

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give me a recipe and you

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see all the stuff that pops up below it,

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that is generative AI

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because here it is using

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its training to make a

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prediction to give you what

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it thinks you want, right?

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But it's just filling in the

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search right there.

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But what I'm talking about

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when I talk about

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generative AI is when

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you're using a tool like

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Microsoft Copilot,

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who any of the schools who

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are on Microsoft tools,

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they likely now have access,

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whether they use it or ignore it,

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to Copilot,

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to have a chat feature that

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they can put in and ask a question.

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And when you ask that program a question,

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Unlike a Google search,

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you'll get a different sort

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of generative answer.

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You'll get a text-based answer,

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often with different sources.

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What Google gives you is a

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list of what it thinks are

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your most likely or best

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paid for choices to answer your question.

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And you then have to go out

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and look at the site that

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it links to you.

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What the generative AI tool

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will do with your question

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is it will create text that

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it thinks answers your question,

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pulling and synthesizing

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from a variety of sources.

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And, you know,

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while you're giving me that

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amazing answer, of course,

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I go on to Microsoft Copilot and I say,

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start a knock knock joke.

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And of course, it says knock knock.

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Who's there?

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Banana.

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So this is where artificial

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intelligence is, right?

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If I go into these different programs,

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we know that there's, as you mentioned,

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a variety of different kinds.

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I think the two biggies that are out there,

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ChatGPT and Microsoft Copilot.

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And I would even throw a

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third one in there.

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Google has their BARD slash,

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they're not calling it Gemini, right?

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Right.

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And...

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The scary part is these

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things are now starting to

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be turned on at the admin

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level for school districts.

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This is not the AI world and

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then the school world.

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Microsoft is now every

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single day putting out videos going,

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here is Copilot with PowerPoint.

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Here is Copilot with Outlook.

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I got to be transparent.

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I'm personally one of those

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ones that are paying 30

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bucks a month for Copilot.

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I love it.

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I love the fact that I can sit,

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if nothing else,

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30 bucks a month is paying

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for me to look at a strand

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of emails and have it read

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the emails and give me like

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a three sentence synopsis

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of what the entire email thread is.

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I absolutely love that.

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Yeah, it's a time saver.

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Huge time saver.

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I'm still trying to figure things out.

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Last night I was doing a

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chat with a friend who was

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at a Rangers game and I said, you know,

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please take this picture

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and put it in a Rangers

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jersey and put the Stanley Cup.

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I was doing the

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designer.microsoft.com thing and

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We were just having fun with it, right?

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Right.

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And let me stop you there, Jeff,

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because what you're doing

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is exactly what I'm trying

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to advocate for to school leaders.

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You're playing with it.

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You're getting your hands in there.

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You're trying different use cases.

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The use case may be

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entertaining your friend.

00:10:23.496 --> 00:10:25.298

The use case may be digging

00:10:25.318 --> 00:10:25.759

through your emails.

00:10:25.798 --> 00:10:27.559

email and saving yourself time.

00:10:27.899 --> 00:10:29.341

The use case may be for our

00:10:29.380 --> 00:10:30.601

teacher friends listening,

00:10:31.123 --> 00:10:32.503

designing a lesson plan or

00:10:32.563 --> 00:10:35.065

giving a student sample to

00:10:35.264 --> 00:10:36.865

meet the needs of their students, right?

00:10:37.226 --> 00:10:39.447

You've spent time to play

00:10:39.687 --> 00:10:41.590

and figure out where it

00:10:41.750 --> 00:10:43.110

could be useful for you.

00:10:43.951 --> 00:10:45.091

And that's what we're

00:10:45.211 --> 00:10:46.751

advocating for our

00:10:47.251 --> 00:10:48.491

education partners to do.

00:10:49.072 --> 00:10:50.293

So at Edmentum,

00:10:50.552 --> 00:10:52.052

we ran a series of

00:10:52.113 --> 00:10:54.092

experiments to try to

00:10:54.253 --> 00:10:56.594

figure out how would we want to advise,

00:10:56.734 --> 00:10:57.833

especially last summer,

00:10:58.014 --> 00:10:59.414

everybody was talking about it.

00:10:59.855 --> 00:11:01.355

School districts had shut it down.

00:11:01.735 --> 00:11:02.855

We're trying to figure out

00:11:03.014 --> 00:11:05.076

what we could suggest to

00:11:05.296 --> 00:11:07.096

to our partners and so we

00:11:07.136 --> 00:11:08.136

got in there and started

00:11:08.197 --> 00:11:09.658

running experiments and

00:11:09.738 --> 00:11:11.077

that's the kind of thing

00:11:11.118 --> 00:11:12.457

that we learned is that

00:11:12.859 --> 00:11:14.379

teachers need or school

00:11:14.399 --> 00:11:15.899

district leaders need to

00:11:16.200 --> 00:11:17.360

get their hands in it try

00:11:17.399 --> 00:11:18.500

different tools see how

00:11:18.541 --> 00:11:19.961

they work so they can

00:11:20.041 --> 00:11:21.522

figure out where it might

00:11:21.562 --> 00:11:22.381

be useful for them

00:11:23.673 --> 00:11:24.615

I'd like to have this

00:11:24.695 --> 00:11:26.034

conversation from a couple

00:11:26.134 --> 00:11:27.075

different chairs.

00:11:27.696 --> 00:11:28.395

I'll try to tell you the

00:11:28.436 --> 00:11:29.596

chair I'm doing the question from.

00:11:29.635 --> 00:11:29.936

Right now,

00:11:29.956 --> 00:11:30.956

I want to do this from the tech

00:11:30.976 --> 00:11:31.636

director chair.

00:11:32.297 --> 00:11:33.238

When I'm working with a

00:11:33.278 --> 00:11:34.918

company and they say they

00:11:34.977 --> 00:11:37.339

now are using artificial intelligence,

00:11:38.178 --> 00:11:39.340

I know as a tech director,

00:11:40.220 --> 00:11:41.740

I need to have a privacy

00:11:41.780 --> 00:11:43.042

agreement signed with that

00:11:43.121 --> 00:11:45.283

company for my users to log in?

00:11:45.844 --> 00:11:47.403

Do I also need to ask

00:11:47.504 --> 00:11:49.725

questions such as where is

00:11:49.806 --> 00:11:51.767

that company getting their

00:11:51.826 --> 00:11:53.107

artificial intelligence

00:11:53.368 --> 00:11:54.769

originally sourced from?

00:11:55.129 --> 00:11:57.129

And do I need to worry about

00:11:57.190 --> 00:11:58.490

having a privacy agreement

00:11:58.530 --> 00:11:59.511

with that source?

00:12:01.942 --> 00:12:03.826

I think what you're hitting

00:12:03.926 --> 00:12:05.948

on with that question there, Jeff,

00:12:06.009 --> 00:12:08.172

that is on the minds of

00:12:08.272 --> 00:12:10.894

every tech director and the

00:12:10.955 --> 00:12:12.918

legal folks in districts, right,

00:12:13.359 --> 00:12:15.782

is how do the data that get

00:12:15.902 --> 00:12:17.945

put into an AI get used?

00:12:18.945 --> 00:12:21.067

So one of the benefits of

00:12:21.226 --> 00:12:23.769

using a Microsoft co-pilot, for example,

00:12:24.370 --> 00:12:26.231

is the way that it's

00:12:26.312 --> 00:12:28.693

attached to any enterprise

00:12:28.833 --> 00:12:30.975

is it protects the privacy of the data.

00:12:31.116 --> 00:12:33.538

That data doesn't get fed into the model.

00:12:33.918 --> 00:12:34.899

But the important thing for

00:12:34.960 --> 00:12:37.221

teachers to know, if, for example,

00:12:37.282 --> 00:12:39.303

the only generative AI that

00:12:39.344 --> 00:12:40.745

they think of is chat GPT,

00:12:42.427 --> 00:12:43.307

What they need to know is

00:12:43.347 --> 00:12:44.889

that ChatGPT will take

00:12:45.110 --> 00:12:46.392

anything that you input

00:12:46.511 --> 00:12:48.433

into it and it starts to

00:12:48.614 --> 00:12:49.975

use it to train the model.

00:12:50.755 --> 00:12:52.378

So the question from a tech

00:12:52.418 --> 00:12:54.921

director seat is probably yes.

00:12:55.100 --> 00:12:56.962

They need to figure out where...

00:12:58.432 --> 00:13:01.874

what a company is using and which data,

00:13:02.033 --> 00:13:03.615

like whether or not the data gets shared,

00:13:04.176 --> 00:13:05.235

you're safer if they're

00:13:05.275 --> 00:13:06.756

using Microsoft Copilot.

00:13:07.157 --> 00:13:10.019

And there's also almost always,

00:13:10.178 --> 00:13:10.860

as I've seen it,

00:13:11.000 --> 00:13:12.620

data sharing agreements or

00:13:12.780 --> 00:13:15.442

not that protect the privacy.

00:13:15.522 --> 00:13:17.302

So even as an ed tech company,

00:13:18.364 --> 00:13:20.004

all of the same rules and

00:13:20.044 --> 00:13:22.986

regulations for protecting

00:13:23.086 --> 00:13:25.207

student data apply to us as

00:13:25.268 --> 00:13:26.509

they do to a school district.

00:13:26.849 --> 00:13:28.953

So we can't use and share

00:13:29.094 --> 00:13:31.980

and email and feed into a

00:13:32.201 --> 00:13:34.004

system any student data.

00:13:35.304 --> 00:13:36.586

when a tech director is

00:13:36.686 --> 00:13:38.427

looking at an application

00:13:38.927 --> 00:13:40.488

or when an application

00:13:40.548 --> 00:13:42.288

comes to a tech director that says, hey,

00:13:42.349 --> 00:13:44.150

now we have this extra thing on us,

00:13:44.971 --> 00:13:46.792

what questions should a

00:13:47.513 --> 00:13:49.134

tech director be asking of

00:13:49.173 --> 00:13:50.894

their ed tech partners when

00:13:50.934 --> 00:13:53.996

it comes to the topic of AI, AI features,

00:13:54.177 --> 00:13:56.258

perhaps can I turn the AI

00:13:56.317 --> 00:13:57.599

features on and off on my

00:13:57.678 --> 00:13:59.019

side or are they now just a

00:13:59.100 --> 00:14:00.039

part of this world?

00:14:00.400 --> 00:14:01.561

What questions should school

00:14:01.581 --> 00:14:02.461

districts be asking?

00:14:03.336 --> 00:14:03.436

Well,

00:14:03.475 --> 00:14:05.017

I think lots of people are asking

00:14:05.216 --> 00:14:08.698

questions around age restrictions.

00:14:09.080 --> 00:14:10.559

So those keep changing.

00:14:10.580 --> 00:14:13.162

I would also,

00:14:14.023 --> 00:14:16.183

speaking of the idea of changing,

00:14:16.724 --> 00:14:19.405

this landscape and these

00:14:19.466 --> 00:14:21.726

technologies are ever changing, right?

00:14:22.128 --> 00:14:24.009

All of the models keep getting updated.

00:14:24.489 --> 00:14:27.671

So I might want to ask if I

00:14:27.691 --> 00:14:28.672

were a tech director,

00:14:29.884 --> 00:14:31.504

How will I be notified of

00:14:31.585 --> 00:14:32.965

changes to the model?

00:14:34.706 --> 00:14:37.147

I think it is a good question to ask.

00:14:37.346 --> 00:14:39.729

Is there a way to limit access,

00:14:40.369 --> 00:14:42.149

turn features on and off?

00:14:44.585 --> 00:14:45.644

The other thing to note

00:14:45.965 --> 00:14:47.566

about the perspective that

00:14:47.785 --> 00:14:50.626

I bring from Edmentum is

00:14:50.706 --> 00:14:53.488

that we're not putting AI

00:14:53.687 --> 00:14:56.068

into our products at this point.

00:14:56.828 --> 00:14:58.528

We've taken a more kind of

00:14:58.609 --> 00:14:59.789

cautious approach.

00:15:00.549 --> 00:15:02.770

We're absolutely looking at

00:15:02.990 --> 00:15:04.230

use cases for our own

00:15:04.291 --> 00:15:06.331

efficiencies and the work

00:15:06.351 --> 00:15:08.033

that we need to do to create things.

00:15:08.572 --> 00:15:11.453

But when it comes to in our products,

00:15:12.173 --> 00:15:12.494

No.

00:15:12.974 --> 00:15:13.414

Rather,

00:15:13.634 --> 00:15:15.075

what we're doing is trying to

00:15:15.154 --> 00:15:16.576

figure out how to help

00:15:16.855 --> 00:15:18.657

teachers who use our

00:15:18.697 --> 00:15:21.538

products think about when

00:15:21.577 --> 00:15:23.558

and if or how students

00:15:23.698 --> 00:15:26.900

might use AI to complete assignments,

00:15:27.380 --> 00:15:28.160

what they should worry

00:15:28.221 --> 00:15:30.322

about or not when it comes to that,

00:15:30.662 --> 00:15:31.462

and how to have the

00:15:31.543 --> 00:15:32.582

teachers find their own

00:15:32.623 --> 00:15:34.384

efficiencies with AI in

00:15:34.443 --> 00:15:36.184

terms of using our products.

00:15:37.072 --> 00:15:37.972

I wanna throw one more

00:15:38.033 --> 00:15:38.793

question at you from the

00:15:38.833 --> 00:15:39.634

tech director chair,

00:15:39.673 --> 00:15:40.375

and this is a biggie.

00:15:40.894 --> 00:15:43.076

And there are spreadsheets

00:15:43.177 --> 00:15:44.278

running around the internet

00:15:44.317 --> 00:15:46.679

right now that have all of

00:15:46.720 --> 00:15:47.660

this information,

00:15:48.501 --> 00:15:49.322

but I think there's a lot

00:15:49.363 --> 00:15:50.403

that's premature right now.

00:15:51.556 --> 00:15:53.136

Do you have any recommendations?

00:15:53.197 --> 00:15:54.778

I know you're not legal, right?

00:15:55.158 --> 00:15:56.100

But do you have any

00:15:56.179 --> 00:15:57.900

recommendations on language

00:15:58.241 --> 00:16:00.864

that should be in or things

00:16:00.923 --> 00:16:02.625

that should be in some kind

00:16:02.664 --> 00:16:05.668

of an official board doc AI policy?

00:16:06.248 --> 00:16:07.830

I know school districts are jumping in,

00:16:07.870 --> 00:16:09.311

but they don't have an AI policy.

00:16:09.350 --> 00:16:10.432

Some school districts are saying,

00:16:10.831 --> 00:16:11.773

why do I need one?

00:16:11.793 --> 00:16:12.572

And then there's some school

00:16:12.592 --> 00:16:14.195

districts that are making

00:16:14.235 --> 00:16:16.256

the document that everything is in there.

00:16:16.876 --> 00:16:17.236

Do you have any

00:16:17.256 --> 00:16:18.437

recommendations or do you

00:16:18.457 --> 00:16:19.898

have a chance to see what

00:16:19.918 --> 00:16:20.798

other school districts and

00:16:20.818 --> 00:16:21.418

stuff are doing?

00:16:22.359 --> 00:16:24.299

So I've had a couple of

00:16:24.379 --> 00:16:25.620

opportunities to see what

00:16:25.660 --> 00:16:27.081

other school districts are doing.

00:16:28.802 --> 00:16:29.662

One of the things I do on

00:16:29.701 --> 00:16:31.163

the side is I still I

00:16:31.202 --> 00:16:32.663

couldn't leave academia altogether.

00:16:32.722 --> 00:16:34.043

So I still teach an

00:16:34.124 --> 00:16:35.244

instructional technology

00:16:35.303 --> 00:16:37.024

course at the University of Pennsylvania.

00:16:37.345 --> 00:16:38.426

And I taught it last fall.

00:16:38.905 --> 00:16:40.046

And the course gets taught

00:16:40.206 --> 00:16:41.346

to school leaders.

00:16:41.586 --> 00:16:43.268

And so I had a cohort of 20

00:16:43.268 --> 00:16:44.469

something school leaders.

00:16:44.808 --> 00:16:45.568

And of course,

00:16:45.708 --> 00:16:48.090

in an instructional technology module,

00:16:48.190 --> 00:16:48.890

we were talking about

00:16:48.931 --> 00:16:50.831

generative AI and policy.

00:16:50.871 --> 00:16:52.493

So I got to see some of the

00:16:52.533 --> 00:16:57.595

policies that those folks as my students,

00:16:57.674 --> 00:16:59.155

but in their day jobs were

00:16:59.235 --> 00:17:00.356

creating in their districts.

00:17:00.736 --> 00:17:02.258

I've also been following

00:17:02.418 --> 00:17:03.818

what New York City schools

00:17:04.019 --> 00:17:05.559

have been doing, right?

00:17:05.680 --> 00:17:07.020

They were one of the first

00:17:07.201 --> 00:17:09.242

school districts to ban

00:17:09.883 --> 00:17:11.763

chat GPT when it first came out,

00:17:11.825 --> 00:17:12.625

when everybody was trying

00:17:12.644 --> 00:17:13.425

to figure things out.

00:17:13.865 --> 00:17:15.366

And now we see that they

00:17:15.406 --> 00:17:16.488

have come around and

00:17:17.048 --> 00:17:18.689

created a more thoughtful approach.

00:17:18.729 --> 00:17:20.650

They've got a group working

00:17:20.769 --> 00:17:22.151

on it and they're trying to

00:17:22.270 --> 00:17:23.330

make things public.

00:17:23.371 --> 00:17:24.571

So I think if I were your

00:17:24.612 --> 00:17:26.873

tech director and I was in that chair,

00:17:27.373 --> 00:17:28.634

what I would do is I would

00:17:28.653 --> 00:17:30.334

probably go look to some of

00:17:30.354 --> 00:17:31.454

the bigger districts who

00:17:31.515 --> 00:17:33.016

have the resources and the

00:17:33.056 --> 00:17:34.276

money and the manpower to

00:17:34.316 --> 00:17:36.297

be thinking about this more deeply.

00:17:36.798 --> 00:17:37.938

And I would look to see what

00:17:37.978 --> 00:17:40.598

their current policy is and

00:17:40.679 --> 00:17:41.940

see what language might

00:17:42.039 --> 00:17:43.740

need to be included in my

00:17:43.820 --> 00:17:45.662

own district's policy.

00:17:47.045 --> 00:17:48.486

So let's take that hat off

00:17:48.526 --> 00:17:49.788

for a second here and let's

00:17:49.827 --> 00:17:51.288

put on the coaching hat or

00:17:51.308 --> 00:17:52.430

the curricular hat, right?

00:17:52.911 --> 00:17:53.991

One of the questions and

00:17:54.672 --> 00:17:55.613

topics that have come up on

00:17:55.653 --> 00:17:57.234

our Ask the Tech Coach show has been,

00:17:57.734 --> 00:17:59.856

how do you introduce this

00:17:59.978 --> 00:18:01.939

concept to teachers, right?

00:18:03.019 --> 00:18:04.721

We think of this as the calculator, right?

00:18:04.801 --> 00:18:06.584

Teachers are saying you can't use it,

00:18:06.644 --> 00:18:07.924

you can't use it, you can't use it,

00:18:07.964 --> 00:18:09.446

but now everybody has a calculator.

00:18:11.993 --> 00:18:13.355

There's so many coaches out

00:18:13.395 --> 00:18:14.938

there right now that are

00:18:15.398 --> 00:18:16.461

jumping in and saying,

00:18:16.500 --> 00:18:17.782

can I have 20 minutes at a

00:18:17.823 --> 00:18:19.664

faculty meeting just to put

00:18:19.704 --> 00:18:20.666

that first toe in,

00:18:21.126 --> 00:18:23.049

just to have that conversation?

00:18:24.031 --> 00:18:25.814

Even myself as a technology teacher,

00:18:25.974 --> 00:18:26.976

I want to try this.

00:18:27.676 --> 00:18:29.739

But I don't want to teach my

00:18:29.838 --> 00:18:30.599

kids something.

00:18:30.640 --> 00:18:31.601

I feel weird saying this.

00:18:31.862 --> 00:18:32.642

I don't want to teach my

00:18:32.682 --> 00:18:34.463

kids something that my

00:18:34.523 --> 00:18:35.826

colleagues are going to be

00:18:35.986 --> 00:18:37.968

uncomfortable with them knowing.

00:18:38.509 --> 00:18:38.689

Right.

00:18:39.169 --> 00:18:39.430

Right?

00:18:39.809 --> 00:18:41.491

So all of that being said,

00:18:41.511 --> 00:18:43.193

if you were somebody who

00:18:43.213 --> 00:18:43.894

was in charge of

00:18:43.934 --> 00:18:45.016

professional development...

00:18:46.635 --> 00:18:46.955

How do,

00:18:47.056 --> 00:18:48.457

and this is gonna be a two-part question.

00:18:48.537 --> 00:18:50.679

How do you start the conversation?

00:18:51.138 --> 00:18:53.140

What's an application that you would use?

00:18:53.460 --> 00:18:54.500

Do you have an example of

00:18:54.540 --> 00:18:56.882

maybe a first group assignment?

00:18:57.643 --> 00:18:59.584

What's that 30 second pitch

00:18:59.624 --> 00:19:01.224

or speech or anything that

00:19:01.265 --> 00:19:02.066

you would do if you were

00:19:02.086 --> 00:19:03.586

that coach and you were

00:19:03.626 --> 00:19:04.987

given a faculty meeting and said,

00:19:05.567 --> 00:19:06.567

introduce the topic,

00:19:06.587 --> 00:19:07.828

but don't go too far in the water.

00:19:08.308 --> 00:19:09.569

Right.

00:19:09.589 --> 00:19:10.510

I love this question.

00:19:10.691 --> 00:19:11.411

So this,

00:19:11.510 --> 00:19:12.771

I have actually done a bunch of

00:19:12.791 --> 00:19:14.933

thinking about is how to get it started.

00:19:16.144 --> 00:19:17.785

I think I would take a

00:19:18.305 --> 00:19:20.625

problem that is broad for

00:19:20.826 --> 00:19:21.905

most of my colleagues.

00:19:22.006 --> 00:19:23.185

And I would venture a guess

00:19:23.226 --> 00:19:24.386

that most of your listeners

00:19:25.126 --> 00:19:25.987

are dealing with the

00:19:26.027 --> 00:19:28.127

challenge of the various

00:19:28.268 --> 00:19:30.229

languages that our students

00:19:30.288 --> 00:19:31.308

come to our classrooms

00:19:31.328 --> 00:19:33.890

speaking and their families, right?

00:19:34.009 --> 00:19:36.290

We have a huge variety of

00:19:36.371 --> 00:19:38.771

multilingual learners who

00:19:39.051 --> 00:19:41.633

are trying to learn our content,

00:19:41.833 --> 00:19:43.272

but they still don't know

00:19:43.333 --> 00:19:44.252

the English language that

00:19:44.272 --> 00:19:45.114

we're speaking to them in.

00:19:45.973 --> 00:19:46.894

So one of the things that I

00:19:46.954 --> 00:19:48.655

might show my colleagues if

00:19:48.756 --> 00:19:50.477

I were a coach is I'd show

00:19:50.517 --> 00:19:52.978

them we found Clawed AI,

00:19:53.038 --> 00:19:54.078

which is one that we have

00:19:54.118 --> 00:19:55.019

not yet mentioned.

00:19:56.160 --> 00:19:59.142

But Clawed AI was the tool

00:19:59.182 --> 00:20:00.563

that we found at the time

00:20:00.603 --> 00:20:01.844

when we ran our experiments

00:20:01.884 --> 00:20:03.444

a few months ago was the

00:20:03.484 --> 00:20:06.686

best at taking a prompt

00:20:07.809 --> 00:20:09.172

and you put it in there and

00:20:09.211 --> 00:20:11.114

you ask it to translate

00:20:11.173 --> 00:20:12.935

that prompt and explain the

00:20:12.976 --> 00:20:16.401

concept to a speaker of say, for example,

00:20:16.480 --> 00:20:17.521

Moroccan Arabic.

00:20:18.470 --> 00:20:20.611

So what Cloud AI does,

00:20:20.631 --> 00:20:22.512

it's better than Google Translate,

00:20:22.752 --> 00:20:24.034

which just gives you a

00:20:24.094 --> 00:20:25.634

one-to-one translation and

00:20:25.855 --> 00:20:27.155

who knows how good it is.

00:20:27.816 --> 00:20:29.777

But what Cloud AI does is it

00:20:29.817 --> 00:20:31.137

will give you the translation,

00:20:31.459 --> 00:20:33.700

explain in both English and

00:20:33.779 --> 00:20:35.540

in the language of choice,

00:20:35.721 --> 00:20:36.541

the target language,

00:20:37.122 --> 00:20:39.003

why it made choices that it did.

00:20:40.625 --> 00:20:42.665

to explain the concept and

00:20:42.705 --> 00:20:43.866

to make it more accessible.

00:20:44.346 --> 00:20:45.807

So if you've got a teacher

00:20:46.127 --> 00:20:47.588

who's got students who are

00:20:47.628 --> 00:20:49.349

speaking maybe a handful of

00:20:49.410 --> 00:20:50.631

languages in their class

00:20:50.671 --> 00:20:51.471

and they're just trying to

00:20:51.511 --> 00:20:53.692

teach them math and you're

00:20:53.732 --> 00:20:55.354

trying to explain to them

00:20:55.394 --> 00:20:56.815

the Pythagorean theorem and

00:20:56.894 --> 00:21:00.198

how that works and you need

00:21:00.837 --> 00:21:02.219

your multilingual learners

00:21:02.239 --> 00:21:02.798

to understand it,

00:21:02.919 --> 00:21:04.200

I might show them how that

00:21:04.259 --> 00:21:06.221

works and how easy that is

00:21:07.162 --> 00:21:09.963

to give them the explanation

00:21:10.044 --> 00:21:11.644

that will allow them to differentiate.

00:21:12.226 --> 00:21:13.646

The next thing I'd do is I'd say,

00:21:14.126 --> 00:21:16.147

so who's interested in learning more?

00:21:17.388 --> 00:21:18.410

And I think professional

00:21:18.450 --> 00:21:19.810

development in this area

00:21:20.310 --> 00:21:21.311

needs to start with a

00:21:21.412 --> 00:21:22.492

coalition of the willing.

00:21:24.061 --> 00:21:25.461

So bring together the

00:21:25.501 --> 00:21:28.303

teachers who aren't fully afraid of it,

00:21:28.442 --> 00:21:30.183

who want to dip their toes in the water.

00:21:30.923 --> 00:21:33.144

And what we advocated when

00:21:33.203 --> 00:21:34.664

we wrote about this last year,

00:21:36.365 --> 00:21:38.145

we advocated for bringing

00:21:38.185 --> 00:21:39.246

this group together and

00:21:39.346 --> 00:21:41.605

creating a culture of experimentation.

00:21:41.987 --> 00:21:43.227

So getting the school to

00:21:43.326 --> 00:21:45.166

give them some space, some time,

00:21:45.227 --> 00:21:46.127

maybe some professional

00:21:46.167 --> 00:21:47.008

development hours.

00:21:47.768 --> 00:21:50.151

to start running their own experiments,

00:21:50.211 --> 00:21:51.352

to start using these

00:21:51.412 --> 00:21:53.194

different tools to see what works.

00:21:53.474 --> 00:21:53.955

There's also,

00:21:54.016 --> 00:21:55.217

we haven't talked yet about

00:21:55.297 --> 00:21:56.598

all of the generative AI

00:21:56.679 --> 00:21:59.001

that are school focused, right?

00:21:59.082 --> 00:22:00.522

That are not these other ones.

00:22:00.563 --> 00:22:02.746

So like school AI, magic school,

00:22:03.626 --> 00:22:05.107

These ones that essentially

00:22:05.188 --> 00:22:07.469

take a chat GPT engine,

00:22:07.888 --> 00:22:08.990

put it in a wrapper and

00:22:09.049 --> 00:22:10.609

start to program it and

00:22:10.650 --> 00:22:11.911

give it a personality and a

00:22:11.951 --> 00:22:13.392

persona that meets

00:22:13.511 --> 00:22:15.132

different grade levels or

00:22:15.211 --> 00:22:17.192

subject areas and starts to

00:22:17.232 --> 00:22:19.534

do some of the design work for teachers.

00:22:19.595 --> 00:22:20.855

So it lessens the load,

00:22:20.894 --> 00:22:22.496

the burden about designing

00:22:22.516 --> 00:22:23.276

your own prompts.

00:22:24.057 --> 00:22:25.616

And just have these folks

00:22:25.676 --> 00:22:27.397

experiment and learn about

00:22:27.458 --> 00:22:28.659

the different cases that it

00:22:28.739 --> 00:22:30.199

might work and then let it

00:22:30.299 --> 00:22:31.059

start to spread.

00:22:32.067 --> 00:22:32.807

When you're looking,

00:22:33.407 --> 00:22:34.307

I'm gonna go back a hat.

00:22:34.887 --> 00:22:36.588

When you're looking at, you know,

00:22:36.729 --> 00:22:38.648

here's Claude, here's Magic School.

00:22:41.009 --> 00:22:42.730

You're suggesting that this

00:22:42.789 --> 00:22:44.069

be at the teacher level,

00:22:44.549 --> 00:22:45.589

which to the best of my

00:22:45.650 --> 00:22:46.549

knowledge means I don't

00:22:46.690 --> 00:22:48.651

need to worry about privacy agreements,

00:22:49.010 --> 00:22:50.451

or is this where you go to

00:22:50.490 --> 00:22:51.570

your tech director as the

00:22:51.590 --> 00:22:52.471

tech coach and say,

00:22:53.291 --> 00:22:54.951

I'd like to try this Claude thing,

00:22:56.152 --> 00:22:56.951

go get an agreement.

00:22:57.451 --> 00:22:59.593

So I can now go do my 30

00:22:59.593 --> 00:23:01.333

minute faculty meeting.

00:23:03.666 --> 00:23:05.769

what's the legalities on that?

00:23:06.068 --> 00:23:06.970

At what point does school

00:23:06.990 --> 00:23:07.631

districts need to be

00:23:07.691 --> 00:23:08.551

reaching out to all these

00:23:08.592 --> 00:23:09.392

different companies?

00:23:10.492 --> 00:23:11.233

There's no students.

00:23:11.674 --> 00:23:14.237

You have not yet said student logs into,

00:23:14.436 --> 00:23:14.636

right?

00:23:14.656 --> 00:23:14.917

Right.

00:23:15.417 --> 00:23:16.278

But you're still asking

00:23:17.038 --> 00:23:18.580

teachers to log into that.

00:23:18.820 --> 00:23:19.701

And that's kind of where I

00:23:19.781 --> 00:23:21.523

am right now is I'd love to

00:23:21.544 --> 00:23:22.744

start trying these things,

00:23:23.224 --> 00:23:24.046

but I don't want to be

00:23:24.125 --> 00:23:25.446

crossing the district line

00:23:25.487 --> 00:23:27.048

that I might not know exists.

00:23:27.790 --> 00:23:29.374

As the director of learning design,

00:23:29.674 --> 00:23:30.215

thankfully,

00:23:30.477 --> 00:23:33.182

the legal aspect of it is not my purview.

00:23:33.321 --> 00:23:34.785

So I am not the best person

00:23:34.825 --> 00:23:35.707

to answer that question.

00:23:37.175 --> 00:23:39.277

fair okay so you're the tech

00:23:39.297 --> 00:23:40.498

director so you're the tech

00:23:40.518 --> 00:23:42.818

coach and I love the idea

00:23:43.200 --> 00:23:44.440

let's have a conversation

00:23:44.480 --> 00:23:45.980

with a problem the problem

00:23:46.040 --> 00:23:47.082

is I've got students that I

00:23:47.142 --> 00:23:47.741

need to be able to

00:23:47.781 --> 00:23:49.063

communicate with here's how

00:23:49.103 --> 00:23:50.864

this works if anybody else

00:23:50.923 --> 00:23:51.924

wants more and we talk a

00:23:51.964 --> 00:23:53.345

lot on this show about the

00:23:53.384 --> 00:23:54.445

innovation curve where once

00:23:54.465 --> 00:23:55.866

you get to that 13 or so

00:23:55.906 --> 00:23:57.607

percent now you got your

00:23:57.667 --> 00:23:59.148

first followers right how

00:23:59.189 --> 00:24:00.429

do you get to that next 23

00:24:00.429 --> 00:24:03.010

to get your we talk about

00:24:03.050 --> 00:24:06.192

that one a lot on here excellent what

00:24:07.873 --> 00:24:11.895

other ideas do you have for

00:24:12.477 --> 00:24:14.057

bringing these topics in by

00:24:14.097 --> 00:24:15.419

the way and I love coming

00:24:15.618 --> 00:24:16.359

coming from a school

00:24:16.380 --> 00:24:17.840

district that supported 75

00:24:17.840 --> 00:24:19.863

languages and being the guy

00:24:19.923 --> 00:24:21.163

that brought in things like

00:24:21.523 --> 00:24:22.545

powerpoint live and

00:24:22.585 --> 00:24:23.746

microsoft translate and

00:24:23.766 --> 00:24:26.807

here's the app I love the idea for mlls

00:24:29.539 --> 00:24:31.060

What's the dog and pony, right?

00:24:31.121 --> 00:24:31.882

Is the dog and pony,

00:24:31.922 --> 00:24:33.403

here's designer.microsoft,

00:24:33.442 --> 00:24:34.364

give me a prompt and it's

00:24:34.384 --> 00:24:35.183

going to make a picture.

00:24:35.243 --> 00:24:37.826

Now go try something.

00:24:38.125 --> 00:24:38.886

What's the next thing

00:24:38.946 --> 00:24:40.268

outside of MLL students?

00:24:42.088 --> 00:24:42.470

I think...

00:24:44.321 --> 00:24:46.483

I think you'll get most

00:24:46.663 --> 00:24:49.244

teachers to buy in and want

00:24:49.306 --> 00:24:51.467

to understand more if we

00:24:51.567 --> 00:24:53.147

help solve problems for them.

00:24:53.607 --> 00:24:55.189

So I don't actually think

00:24:55.470 --> 00:24:57.911

it's the cool whiz bang dog and pony.

00:24:58.811 --> 00:25:01.394

Even I myself don't always

00:25:01.453 --> 00:25:04.214

appreciate what an AI tool

00:25:04.296 --> 00:25:06.596

can do in terms of making a

00:25:06.656 --> 00:25:07.758

presentation look better

00:25:08.057 --> 00:25:09.679

because I've got years of

00:25:09.719 --> 00:25:10.680

doing a presentation.

00:25:10.720 --> 00:25:12.221

That's not a problem I feel

00:25:12.260 --> 00:25:13.362

like I'm trying to solve.

00:25:14.281 --> 00:25:16.343

I think if you go at

00:25:16.982 --> 00:25:17.903

authentic problems that

00:25:17.923 --> 00:25:18.583

teachers are trying to

00:25:18.863 --> 00:25:20.844

solve and then think about it.

00:25:21.243 --> 00:25:22.545

I think there's always the

00:25:22.585 --> 00:25:25.105

problem of differentiation.

00:25:25.305 --> 00:25:26.986

We talked about multilingual learners,

00:25:27.086 --> 00:25:28.385

but another way of thinking

00:25:28.445 --> 00:25:29.467

about differentiation.

00:25:31.606 --> 00:25:33.208

A lesson I have learned when

00:25:33.248 --> 00:25:34.628

it comes to generative AI

00:25:34.749 --> 00:25:36.230

is you always need to keep

00:25:36.330 --> 00:25:37.270

humans in the loop.

00:25:37.951 --> 00:25:40.193

You cannot just totally rely

00:25:40.453 --> 00:25:42.555

on what the generative AI

00:25:43.076 --> 00:25:44.017

produces for you.

00:25:44.477 --> 00:25:46.137

You've got to keep checking it.

00:25:46.638 --> 00:25:48.660

And so that's why I think

00:25:51.294 --> 00:25:55.316

We'll never see AI fully replace teachers.

00:25:55.375 --> 00:25:57.497

We need their humanity and

00:25:57.537 --> 00:25:58.377

their understanding and

00:25:58.397 --> 00:25:59.419

their relationships with

00:25:59.479 --> 00:26:00.239

kids in the loop.

00:26:00.278 --> 00:26:02.460

So one way that we can leverage that is,

00:26:02.980 --> 00:26:04.141

say this is a middle school

00:26:04.181 --> 00:26:05.521

teacher in your context,

00:26:05.942 --> 00:26:08.483

and they have multiple classes of kids,

00:26:09.104 --> 00:26:10.305

and they're still, again,

00:26:10.464 --> 00:26:11.704

trying to teach maybe a

00:26:11.765 --> 00:26:14.027

social studies concept or a math concept.

00:26:14.747 --> 00:26:16.548

But they've got five sections of kids,

00:26:16.968 --> 00:26:18.409

and they all like different things.

00:26:18.609 --> 00:26:20.270

And the teacher can't keep

00:26:20.411 --> 00:26:21.731

coming up with all of these

00:26:21.771 --> 00:26:22.711

different examples

00:26:41.203 --> 00:26:44.165

Now give me an example to teach that.

00:26:44.465 --> 00:26:46.367

x math concept to all of

00:26:46.407 --> 00:26:49.049

these kids and it will

00:26:49.089 --> 00:26:51.411

generate it in seconds and

00:26:51.451 --> 00:26:52.511

I love that you just said

00:26:52.551 --> 00:26:53.913

that because a couple weeks

00:26:53.952 --> 00:26:55.054

ago I was teaching my kids

00:26:55.074 --> 00:26:56.315

how to do autobiographies

00:26:56.775 --> 00:26:57.776

and right in front of them

00:26:57.836 --> 00:26:58.997

I opened up copilot and

00:26:59.017 --> 00:26:59.577

said I need an

00:26:59.637 --> 00:27:00.959

autobiography that has this

00:27:00.999 --> 00:27:02.179

this and I basically

00:27:02.259 --> 00:27:03.079

plugged in what their

00:27:03.119 --> 00:27:06.001

assignment was and the kids

00:27:06.021 --> 00:27:08.763

were just like wait how'd you do that and

00:27:09.809 --> 00:27:10.653

That was kind of fun.

00:27:11.335 --> 00:27:12.519

But let me put on my third

00:27:12.558 --> 00:27:14.425

hat here as the technology teacher,

00:27:14.486 --> 00:27:16.010

as somebody who's in the classrooms.

00:27:17.289 --> 00:27:19.751

I'm still nervous to show

00:27:19.811 --> 00:27:21.073

this stuff to my students,

00:27:21.153 --> 00:27:22.512

even though it's on my accounts,

00:27:22.614 --> 00:27:23.894

even though they're not

00:27:23.913 --> 00:27:25.035

getting their hands on it.

00:27:25.695 --> 00:27:26.836

I still feel like I'm the

00:27:26.875 --> 00:27:27.696

guy that's teaching them

00:27:27.737 --> 00:27:28.917

how to use the calculator

00:27:28.938 --> 00:27:30.939

when the math teacher says no calculator,

00:27:30.979 --> 00:27:31.199

right?

00:27:31.419 --> 00:27:31.598

Right.

00:27:31.679 --> 00:27:33.039

I still feel like if I go in

00:27:33.079 --> 00:27:34.240

there and I show them how

00:27:34.340 --> 00:27:36.162

to use these things,

00:27:36.321 --> 00:27:37.803

eventually they're going to

00:27:37.843 --> 00:27:38.604

find the... And I don't

00:27:38.644 --> 00:27:39.443

want to be blamed as the

00:27:39.845 --> 00:27:40.644

guy who's teaching them all

00:27:40.664 --> 00:27:41.246

the back doors.

00:27:41.726 --> 00:27:41.885

Right.

00:27:42.465 --> 00:27:42.626

So...

00:27:43.487 --> 00:27:45.888

We talked about when you're doing the PD,

00:27:46.650 --> 00:27:48.250

help the teacher solve the problem,

00:27:48.270 --> 00:27:49.112

get them interested,

00:27:49.152 --> 00:27:50.472

and then you start to build from there.

00:27:51.614 --> 00:27:51.815

What...

00:27:52.994 --> 00:27:54.236

advice would you have for

00:27:54.336 --> 00:27:55.916

anybody trying to show off

00:27:56.698 --> 00:27:58.960

artificial intelligence for

00:27:59.099 --> 00:28:01.182

to students but doing in a

00:28:01.221 --> 00:28:02.863

way that's not the oh it's

00:28:02.883 --> 00:28:03.824

going to help me cheat on

00:28:03.844 --> 00:28:05.826

my you know right that

00:28:05.945 --> 00:28:06.945

stuff right how do you

00:28:07.106 --> 00:28:08.207

actually start to bring in

00:28:08.227 --> 00:28:10.128

this as a tool and we can

00:28:10.169 --> 00:28:11.349

discuss the canvas of the

00:28:11.390 --> 00:28:12.371

world and the fireflies

00:28:12.391 --> 00:28:14.392

like but what what's a good

00:28:14.432 --> 00:28:15.894

couple intro lessons for students

00:28:16.874 --> 00:28:19.914

So where I like to go is

00:28:20.634 --> 00:28:21.776

common sense education.

00:28:22.215 --> 00:28:23.455

I don't know if you've looked at,

00:28:23.576 --> 00:28:24.997

they're really well known

00:28:25.096 --> 00:28:27.237

for their digital citizenship curriculum,

00:28:27.777 --> 00:28:29.637

and they've now put out a

00:28:29.718 --> 00:28:32.078

series of lessons for students

00:28:33.038 --> 00:28:35.361

on AI that explains what it

00:28:35.500 --> 00:28:38.223

is and also kind of takes

00:28:38.284 --> 00:28:39.785

this digital citizenship

00:28:39.884 --> 00:28:42.887

approach to teaching and

00:28:42.948 --> 00:28:44.449

learning about AI.

00:28:44.750 --> 00:28:47.071

So if I were in your shoes

00:28:47.271 --> 00:28:48.373

as the tech teacher,

00:28:48.813 --> 00:28:49.953

I'd probably start there

00:28:50.134 --> 00:28:51.476

with their lessons because

00:28:51.496 --> 00:28:52.115

you're building an

00:28:52.135 --> 00:28:53.657

understanding of the tool,

00:28:53.758 --> 00:28:55.058

not just showing the cool

00:28:55.118 --> 00:28:56.619

whiz bang how it would help me.

00:28:57.461 --> 00:28:58.041

kind of a thing.

00:28:58.541 --> 00:29:00.063

So I think it's really

00:29:00.123 --> 00:29:01.805

important when we're

00:29:01.884 --> 00:29:03.886

talking with students that

00:29:03.946 --> 00:29:05.268

we help them understand

00:29:05.347 --> 00:29:07.289

what the tools do and don't do.

00:29:07.529 --> 00:29:08.570

We help them understand the

00:29:08.631 --> 00:29:10.612

biases that are built into them.

00:29:11.853 --> 00:29:15.296

We help them understand what

00:29:15.355 --> 00:29:16.657

they need to look out for

00:29:16.738 --> 00:29:18.058

that they can't just

00:29:20.865 --> 00:29:22.847

put in a prompt and turn in

00:29:22.968 --> 00:29:24.190

whatever it spits out.

00:29:24.510 --> 00:29:25.172

So again,

00:29:25.633 --> 00:29:26.894

translating the humans in the

00:29:26.934 --> 00:29:28.096

loop back to them.

00:29:28.576 --> 00:29:30.079

I would start with that

00:29:30.200 --> 00:29:31.141

resource and that

00:29:31.201 --> 00:29:33.345

collection of lessons as my

00:29:33.384 --> 00:29:34.105

first place to go.

00:29:35.156 --> 00:29:36.439

Then I would probably if

00:29:36.939 --> 00:29:39.821

your school allows you, you know,

00:29:39.883 --> 00:29:40.923

you've asked you've raised

00:29:40.943 --> 00:29:41.865

a bunch of important

00:29:41.924 --> 00:29:45.608

questions about the

00:29:45.648 --> 00:29:47.471

legalities of data sharing

00:29:47.550 --> 00:29:48.732

and having the right agreement.

00:29:48.813 --> 00:29:50.253

So let's say you do have

00:29:50.375 --> 00:29:52.836

permission to show it and

00:29:53.057 --> 00:29:54.098

your school has worked out

00:29:54.159 --> 00:29:55.380

all those legal details.

00:29:56.573 --> 00:29:58.355

I would probably start with

00:29:58.615 --> 00:30:02.877

the brainstorming capacity that AI does.

00:30:03.137 --> 00:30:05.721

So not doing the finished

00:30:05.861 --> 00:30:07.342

product part of it,

00:30:07.521 --> 00:30:09.344

because that's where some

00:30:09.384 --> 00:30:10.223

of your colleagues are

00:30:10.344 --> 00:30:13.067

probably kind of got their

00:30:13.126 --> 00:30:15.028

hackles up about cheating

00:30:15.208 --> 00:30:16.529

and the potential for cheating.

00:30:17.190 --> 00:30:19.310

And until we get all of our

00:30:19.351 --> 00:30:20.932

colleagues to change their

00:30:21.011 --> 00:30:23.792

pedagogy from the kinds of

00:30:23.853 --> 00:30:25.334

assignments that could be

00:30:25.634 --> 00:30:27.134

replicated and spit out by

00:30:27.173 --> 00:30:28.055

a generative AI,

00:30:28.855 --> 00:30:30.855

what I think we're best to

00:30:30.915 --> 00:30:32.957

do with the youth is to

00:30:33.096 --> 00:30:34.778

teach them how the tools

00:30:34.857 --> 00:30:36.218

could be a thought buddy,

00:30:36.238 --> 00:30:37.558

a brainstorming partner,

00:30:37.699 --> 00:30:38.900

an idea generator.

00:30:39.839 --> 00:30:41.980

Tools like ChatGPT are great for that.

00:30:46.894 --> 00:30:47.734

All of these topics that

00:30:47.755 --> 00:30:48.815

we're talking about are

00:30:48.855 --> 00:30:50.636

going to be detailed in our show notes.

00:30:50.717 --> 00:30:51.636

I'm making sure that we have

00:30:51.696 --> 00:30:53.459

links to all the different AI tools.

00:30:54.118 --> 00:30:55.019

I found the link to the

00:30:55.079 --> 00:30:56.201

Common Sense article.

00:30:56.641 --> 00:30:58.402

And speaking of articles, Dr. Lammers,

00:30:58.561 --> 00:31:00.002

you recently at Edmentum

00:31:00.943 --> 00:31:03.346

published an article about generative AI.

00:31:03.786 --> 00:31:05.867

And that article was called

00:31:06.567 --> 00:31:08.690

AI in Education Experiments,

00:31:09.190 --> 00:31:10.290

Lessons Learned.

00:31:11.030 --> 00:31:11.830

Talk to us a little bit

00:31:11.892 --> 00:31:13.551

about this post and specifically,

00:31:13.751 --> 00:31:15.212

what have some of the

00:31:15.252 --> 00:31:16.794

lessons been that you and

00:31:16.814 --> 00:31:18.314

your team have learned about AI?

00:31:19.075 --> 00:31:19.214

Well,

00:31:19.255 --> 00:31:20.535

I've already shared a couple of them.

00:31:20.634 --> 00:31:22.076

So the experiment from

00:31:22.155 --> 00:31:23.636

Claude and translating

00:31:23.696 --> 00:31:24.997

comes directly from that

00:31:25.396 --> 00:31:27.678

article that you'll link to.

00:31:28.199 --> 00:31:29.679

The other thing that we did is...

00:31:31.962 --> 00:31:34.865

The needing to try different

00:31:34.964 --> 00:31:37.007

tools and to try them over

00:31:37.067 --> 00:31:38.788

time to see how they work

00:31:38.828 --> 00:31:39.788

and how they change.

00:31:40.410 --> 00:31:42.290

So to see whether or not

00:31:42.371 --> 00:31:44.373

ChatGPT might be better at

00:31:44.413 --> 00:31:47.576

something versus Copilot

00:31:47.675 --> 00:31:50.178

versus Gemini versus Cloud AI.

00:31:51.898 --> 00:31:54.121

The other thing that when I

00:31:54.161 --> 00:31:55.541

go back to this idea of the

00:31:55.602 --> 00:31:56.782

coalition of the willing

00:31:56.942 --> 00:31:57.884

who are going to run

00:31:57.983 --> 00:31:59.724

experiments and try things,

00:32:00.586 --> 00:32:02.866

that I think this works best

00:32:04.048 --> 00:32:05.607

if they can then have the

00:32:05.647 --> 00:32:06.788

time and space to come

00:32:06.848 --> 00:32:08.289

together and critically

00:32:08.369 --> 00:32:10.030

reflect on what they've learned,

00:32:10.391 --> 00:32:11.570

to share resources,

00:32:11.971 --> 00:32:14.413

that there be created some sort of a hub.

00:32:14.913 --> 00:32:16.693

For us at Edmentum,

00:32:16.713 --> 00:32:18.555

we used a Microsoft Teams channel,

00:32:19.555 --> 00:32:21.915

which we called our AI brainstorming hub.

00:32:22.076 --> 00:32:23.836

And any resource gets shared

00:32:23.876 --> 00:32:25.337

there so that anyone who's

00:32:25.397 --> 00:32:26.898

interested can follow along,

00:32:27.419 --> 00:32:29.259

can dialogue about it.

00:32:30.079 --> 00:32:33.488

So I think that idea of

00:32:33.627 --> 00:32:35.070

creating this space for

00:32:35.152 --> 00:32:37.155

experimentation is really helpful.

00:32:38.048 --> 00:32:40.329

The article also shares the

00:32:40.369 --> 00:32:41.631

lesson we've already talked about,

00:32:41.671 --> 00:32:43.511

about keeping humans in the loop,

00:32:43.811 --> 00:32:45.231

that you need to have

00:32:46.692 --> 00:32:49.815

people look over what the AI creates,

00:32:50.694 --> 00:32:52.276

find hallucinations,

00:32:53.375 --> 00:32:54.576

which that's another key

00:32:54.636 --> 00:32:56.218

term that we haven't touched on,

00:32:56.657 --> 00:33:00.059

but because of the way AI is designed,

00:33:00.720 --> 00:33:01.619

it could generate

00:33:01.780 --> 00:33:04.602

falsehoods that look very believable,

00:33:04.781 --> 00:33:05.362

because again,

00:33:05.461 --> 00:33:06.563

it's just trying to please you.

00:33:07.002 --> 00:33:08.222

It's trying to give you what

00:33:08.262 --> 00:33:09.003

it thinks you want.

00:33:10.644 --> 00:33:12.203

And so if you get to the

00:33:12.284 --> 00:33:14.224

point where you are using

00:33:14.244 --> 00:33:16.105

AI with students,

00:33:16.645 --> 00:33:18.986

that article also has some

00:33:19.046 --> 00:33:20.086

lessons learned that

00:33:20.227 --> 00:33:23.446

specifically speak to work with students.

00:33:24.688 --> 00:33:25.907

And this idea that we need

00:33:25.928 --> 00:33:27.208

to promote critical

00:33:27.368 --> 00:33:29.388

thinking and reflection on

00:33:29.409 --> 00:33:30.848

the student's part as they

00:33:30.990 --> 00:33:32.509

analyze AI's output.

00:33:33.988 --> 00:33:35.631

You mentioned Cloud AI

00:33:35.730 --> 00:33:39.237

earlier about being a good tool for MLL.

00:33:39.257 --> 00:33:43.084

I want to say this the right way.

00:33:43.565 --> 00:33:45.749

Have you focused these AI tools

00:33:46.957 --> 00:33:48.376

for certain subjects.

00:33:48.436 --> 00:33:49.037

For instance,

00:33:49.958 --> 00:33:51.518

have you noticed that Copilot

00:33:51.557 --> 00:33:52.958

might be good at some subjects,

00:33:53.018 --> 00:33:55.818

but Gemini is better at others?

00:33:57.419 --> 00:34:00.819

I find there's people in

00:34:00.839 --> 00:34:01.579

certain circles that

00:34:01.720 --> 00:34:02.381

they're just going to try

00:34:02.381 --> 00:34:03.560

100 different AI tools,

00:34:03.941 --> 00:34:04.760

and they're going to always

00:34:04.820 --> 00:34:06.020

have 100 AI tools because

00:34:06.300 --> 00:34:07.201

they know what's there.

00:34:07.662 --> 00:34:09.242

But the majority of teachers are either,

00:34:09.262 --> 00:34:10.282

I don't want it,

00:34:10.402 --> 00:34:12.682

or show me the one that I need.

00:34:13.163 --> 00:34:14.143

Right, exactly.

00:34:14.362 --> 00:34:15.344

In a school district, look,

00:34:15.623 --> 00:34:17.164

if you're a Google school,

00:34:17.204 --> 00:34:18.105

you're going to do this one.

00:34:18.144 --> 00:34:19.264

If you're a Microsoft school,

00:34:19.304 --> 00:34:20.266

you're going to do this one.

00:34:20.326 --> 00:34:20.865

If you're not,

00:34:21.385 --> 00:34:22.405

here are some other options.

00:34:23.327 --> 00:34:24.067

Have you found some

00:34:24.166 --> 00:34:26.768

favorites yet and for specific reasons?

00:34:28.788 --> 00:34:29.068

Well,

00:34:30.108 --> 00:34:34.371

I know that when we were trying to

00:34:34.490 --> 00:34:37.512

use ChatGPT to do certain calculations,

00:34:37.813 --> 00:34:38.813

it couldn't always be

00:34:38.873 --> 00:34:40.014

trusted with the math.

00:34:40.655 --> 00:34:40.936

Now,

00:34:41.416 --> 00:34:43.777

I say that with a huge caveat that

00:34:44.257 --> 00:34:46.958

when we were doing our experiments,

00:34:47.039 --> 00:34:47.940

that was last year.

00:34:48.280 --> 00:34:49.300

That might as well be a

00:34:49.380 --> 00:34:51.722

decade ago in AI terms, right?

00:34:52.483 --> 00:34:54.184

So it is ever-changing.

00:34:55.126 --> 00:34:57.148

So I don't know that there

00:34:57.188 --> 00:34:58.829

is a great answer to your

00:34:58.889 --> 00:35:01.012

question definitively, Jeff.

00:35:01.974 --> 00:35:03.514

I think that as these models

00:35:03.574 --> 00:35:04.516

continue to change,

00:35:04.576 --> 00:35:05.637

that's why we need a

00:35:06.978 --> 00:35:08.561

culture of experimentation.

00:35:10.161 --> 00:35:10.782

There is another...

00:35:11.800 --> 00:35:13.402

form of ai that we haven't

00:35:13.463 --> 00:35:14.764

talked about yet and I

00:35:14.824 --> 00:35:15.905

really haven't talked about

00:35:15.945 --> 00:35:17.047

it much on this channel

00:35:17.108 --> 00:35:17.887

because I'm still

00:35:18.869 --> 00:35:20.371

fascinated by how it works

00:35:20.592 --> 00:35:21.413

and I'm just gonna I don't

00:35:21.432 --> 00:35:22.012

even know what this is

00:35:22.253 --> 00:35:23.675

specifically called but I i

00:35:23.715 --> 00:35:24.996

like the term second brain

00:35:25.637 --> 00:35:27.119

so I i call it your second

00:35:27.139 --> 00:35:29.302

brain ai and specifically things that

00:35:30.333 --> 00:35:32.173

They will look at all of

00:35:32.273 --> 00:35:34.096

your personal information

00:35:34.335 --> 00:35:35.976

and help you make decisions,

00:35:36.577 --> 00:35:37.757

help you organize.

00:35:38.378 --> 00:35:39.900

I'll give you two examples

00:35:40.159 --> 00:35:41.380

that helped me run my life

00:35:41.420 --> 00:35:42.641

and helped me run TeacherCast.

00:35:43.672 --> 00:35:45.032

I'm a big fan of an

00:35:45.152 --> 00:35:46.974

application called Notion.

00:35:47.735 --> 00:35:49.436

And Notion is a note-taking

00:35:49.516 --> 00:35:51.777

application on one level,

00:35:51.836 --> 00:35:53.398

but it's also a way to

00:35:53.518 --> 00:35:54.818

create databases and

00:35:54.878 --> 00:35:56.840

note-take and you name it.

00:35:56.880 --> 00:35:57.320

Basically,

00:35:57.521 --> 00:35:59.021

everything that you've ever seen

00:35:59.081 --> 00:36:00.182

on TeacherCast for the last

00:36:00.242 --> 00:36:02.304

couple of years is designed in Notion.

00:36:03.105 --> 00:36:03.804

And recently,

00:36:04.224 --> 00:36:06.487

Notion came out with their own AI tool,

00:36:07.067 --> 00:36:09.047

but instead of searching the world,

00:36:09.528 --> 00:36:11.389

it's searching itself, right?

00:36:11.650 --> 00:36:12.911

So when we say things like

00:36:12.951 --> 00:36:14.130

the term second brain,

00:36:14.150 --> 00:36:16.112

it literally is thinking for me.

00:36:16.532 --> 00:36:18.193

And I can actually go into

00:36:18.233 --> 00:36:19.954

the AI tool and I can ask it,

00:36:20.333 --> 00:36:21.894

tell me how many times Dr.

00:36:21.954 --> 00:36:23.195

Lammers was on the show and

00:36:23.255 --> 00:36:24.795

what the episodes were about.

00:36:25.695 --> 00:36:26.916

Maybe because in six months

00:36:26.936 --> 00:36:27.876

you're going to be back on

00:36:27.916 --> 00:36:28.838

and I want to make sure

00:36:28.878 --> 00:36:30.057

that we're having a similar

00:36:30.097 --> 00:36:31.278

yet different conversation.

00:36:31.838 --> 00:36:32.659

Or I can say,

00:36:33.079 --> 00:36:34.500

show me all the podcast

00:36:34.559 --> 00:36:36.081

episodes that we discussed.

00:36:36.661 --> 00:36:37.842

artificial intelligence

00:36:37.902 --> 00:36:38.882

because maybe I'm doing a

00:36:38.902 --> 00:36:40.364

blog post on my top 10

00:36:40.364 --> 00:36:41.585

whatever and I want to

00:36:41.626 --> 00:36:43.668

start to reference other

00:36:43.708 --> 00:36:45.009

shows so notion is a way

00:36:45.048 --> 00:36:46.630

that it'll actually take

00:36:46.690 --> 00:36:48.592

your your again your second

00:36:48.632 --> 00:36:50.313

brain it'll only think

00:36:50.574 --> 00:36:53.637

inside of that co-pilot is

00:36:53.697 --> 00:36:55.719

another option co-pilot

00:36:55.760 --> 00:36:56.880

depending on how you're

00:36:57.061 --> 00:36:58.501

using it and I i again I

00:36:58.541 --> 00:36:59.963

pay for it inside of my

00:37:00.003 --> 00:37:00.965

teacher cast domain

00:37:02.483 --> 00:37:05.023

as a switch that says internal,

00:37:05.043 --> 00:37:06.164

I forget what the exact words are,

00:37:06.184 --> 00:37:07.505

but basically it's internal

00:37:07.545 --> 00:37:09.186

of your domain or the web.

00:37:09.206 --> 00:37:10.925

So if I click on the

00:37:11.086 --> 00:37:12.567

internal switch and I don't

00:37:12.586 --> 00:37:14.947

remember the name of it, but I can say,

00:37:15.387 --> 00:37:17.469

show me all of my podcast

00:37:17.568 --> 00:37:19.710

episodes and it'll find

00:37:20.210 --> 00:37:21.951

only the podcast episodes

00:37:22.170 --> 00:37:23.992

inside of my OneDrive.

00:37:25.012 --> 00:37:26.733

Whereas if I search the web,

00:37:26.833 --> 00:37:28.393

now it's basically doing a Bing search.

00:37:30.347 --> 00:37:32.168

And so I love these

00:37:32.889 --> 00:37:34.032

companies that are coming

00:37:34.112 --> 00:37:35.994

up with ways for us to do

00:37:36.114 --> 00:37:38.458

more using the tools that

00:37:38.498 --> 00:37:40.981

we're currently building, right?

00:37:41.320 --> 00:37:42.682

So I spend a lot of time

00:37:43.815 --> 00:37:45.695

on my Notion, on my dashboards,

00:37:46.217 --> 00:37:46.896

I'm making sure that

00:37:47.036 --> 00:37:48.577

everything is there and named correctly,

00:37:48.597 --> 00:37:50.199

because I know someday soon

00:37:50.659 --> 00:37:51.679

I'm going to need to pull

00:37:51.719 --> 00:37:52.940

that information out.

00:37:53.842 --> 00:37:55.362

And the same thing with Microsoft.

00:37:55.422 --> 00:37:56.663

Microsoft is checking all of

00:37:56.702 --> 00:37:57.704

your PowerPoints and words

00:37:57.744 --> 00:37:58.925

and Excels and it's

00:37:59.005 --> 00:38:00.266

checking the entire

00:38:00.346 --> 00:38:02.987

knowledge graph out there of yourself.

00:38:03.047 --> 00:38:05.009

So that way you can find what you need.

00:38:05.048 --> 00:38:05.628

Now, obviously,

00:38:06.090 --> 00:38:07.811

if I'm searching my own stuff,

00:38:08.451 --> 00:38:09.891

it doesn't know what you as

00:38:09.931 --> 00:38:10.952

my coworkers doing.

00:38:11.833 --> 00:38:13.173

But that's okay because I

00:38:13.193 --> 00:38:14.295

don't always want to know

00:38:14.315 --> 00:38:15.695

what the entire planet's doing.

00:38:16.114 --> 00:38:16.775

I just want to know what's

00:38:16.815 --> 00:38:18.817

in my own bedroom or my own house.

00:38:20.077 --> 00:38:21.518

Do you have any experience

00:38:21.637 --> 00:38:23.438

using any applications like that?

00:38:23.579 --> 00:38:24.500

Or you were shaking your

00:38:24.539 --> 00:38:27.021

head about using the co-pilot stuff.

00:38:28.021 --> 00:38:29.282

Are you one or is your team

00:38:29.882 --> 00:38:32.543

one to be making these second brains,

00:38:32.603 --> 00:38:33.445

second thinking,

00:38:34.505 --> 00:38:35.985

digital versions of yourself?

00:38:36.146 --> 00:38:36.666

And if so,

00:38:36.686 --> 00:38:39.027

do you have any suggestions on those?

00:38:39.047 --> 00:38:39.387

Yeah.

00:38:40.106 --> 00:38:42.507

The only place that I have used this,

00:38:42.588 --> 00:38:45.289

I have not dug into this

00:38:45.329 --> 00:38:47.670

kind of second brain AI for

00:38:47.731 --> 00:38:50.572

myself very much beyond, you know,

00:38:50.672 --> 00:38:51.932

working in a corporation

00:38:51.972 --> 00:38:53.313

that uses Microsoft

00:38:53.353 --> 00:38:56.076

products and also Atlassian products,

00:38:56.215 --> 00:38:57.617

Confluence, right?

00:38:58.137 --> 00:39:01.179

We use SharePoint, there's stuff on Teams,

00:39:01.219 --> 00:39:03.179

there's files that get emailed to you,

00:39:03.400 --> 00:39:03.780

all of this.

00:39:04.340 --> 00:39:07.083

So I often use the tool

00:39:07.322 --> 00:39:10.865

Delve in Microsoft to find, okay,

00:39:11.005 --> 00:39:13.307

I know this person sent me a file.

00:39:14.469 --> 00:39:15.190

Where is it?

00:39:16.250 --> 00:39:17.030

Help me find it.

00:39:17.231 --> 00:39:18.411

And so I don't have to

00:39:18.452 --> 00:39:19.773

search email and then

00:39:19.853 --> 00:39:21.954

search Teams and then search, you know,

00:39:22.414 --> 00:39:22.976

Confluence.

00:39:23.275 --> 00:39:25.358

That's probably the best one that I use.

00:39:25.398 --> 00:39:26.539

And I use it regularly

00:39:26.559 --> 00:39:28.139

because I know I saw that

00:39:28.199 --> 00:39:29.221

file from somebody.

00:39:29.240 --> 00:39:29.840

Yes.

00:39:30.382 --> 00:39:30.621

Mm-hmm.

00:39:32.449 --> 00:39:33.710

There's a lot, right?

00:39:33.731 --> 00:39:34.271

There's a lot.

00:39:34.951 --> 00:39:37.072

And I think where we are

00:39:37.172 --> 00:39:38.373

right now is we're at that

00:39:38.492 --> 00:39:39.793

point in the curve where

00:39:40.213 --> 00:39:41.594

people are jumping on board

00:39:41.614 --> 00:39:44.115

or some of them are even saying,

00:39:45.356 --> 00:39:45.996

I don't have the time.

00:39:47.257 --> 00:39:50.438

So much stuff, grades, curriculum, parents,

00:39:51.159 --> 00:39:53.380

post-pandemic, behavior.

00:39:54.021 --> 00:39:56.141

I don't have time for one more thing.

00:39:56.641 --> 00:39:57.742

And you've got this wave of

00:39:57.862 --> 00:40:00.344

educators coming in going, no, no, no,

00:40:00.583 --> 00:40:01.744

this is the thing.

00:40:02.085 --> 00:40:02.425

Right?

00:40:02.505 --> 00:40:04.168

And even a couple of shows ago, we did the,

00:40:04.208 --> 00:40:04.449

you know,

00:40:05.329 --> 00:40:07.353

how would you relate AI to other

00:40:07.452 --> 00:40:08.295

recent things?

00:40:08.355 --> 00:40:08.835

And we're like, no,

00:40:08.856 --> 00:40:10.617

this isn't Google Cardboard

00:40:10.677 --> 00:40:12.481

where many people try it

00:40:12.521 --> 00:40:13.483

and now it's in the corner.

00:40:13.523 --> 00:40:13.663

Like,

00:40:14.485 --> 00:40:16.045

This is the thing, right?

00:40:16.065 --> 00:40:17.246

Like this is the thing that

00:40:17.266 --> 00:40:18.286

we're going to look at and go,

00:40:18.306 --> 00:40:20.268

this isn't going anywhere.

00:40:21.168 --> 00:40:22.588

This is the calculator that

00:40:22.628 --> 00:40:23.469

suddenly you turn around

00:40:23.489 --> 00:40:24.670

and everyone's got one in their pocket.

00:40:24.690 --> 00:40:27.451

Like everything is going into here.

00:40:27.590 --> 00:40:28.630

So how do we learn?

00:40:28.650 --> 00:40:32.333

And let's take one final lap around here.

00:40:32.932 --> 00:40:34.034

If you were listening to

00:40:34.074 --> 00:40:35.614

this show and you wanted to

00:40:35.653 --> 00:40:37.474

take that first step to try things,

00:40:37.514 --> 00:40:39.516

as you said, button push, test things out,

00:40:39.976 --> 00:40:40.757

play with things.

00:40:41.577 --> 00:40:42.318

what would be one of the

00:40:42.418 --> 00:40:43.498

first things that you would

00:40:43.538 --> 00:40:44.778

do or the first

00:40:45.380 --> 00:40:46.420

applications that you would

00:40:46.460 --> 00:40:48.822

look towards just to sit in

00:40:48.862 --> 00:40:49.742

your office one day and

00:40:49.782 --> 00:40:50.443

push some buttons?

00:40:51.224 --> 00:40:51.364

Well,

00:40:51.403 --> 00:40:53.945

if I'm at a school that uses Microsoft,

00:40:54.065 --> 00:40:55.025

I would use Microsoft

00:40:55.045 --> 00:40:56.067

Copilot because it's

00:40:56.106 --> 00:40:57.588

probably the easiest one to

00:40:57.628 --> 00:40:59.188

know that the data is protected,

00:40:59.248 --> 00:41:00.230

so I won't get in trouble.

00:41:01.166 --> 00:41:02.688

If I'm not at a school that uses that,

00:41:02.788 --> 00:41:04.088

I just go to chat GPT

00:41:04.148 --> 00:41:05.068

because there's a lot

00:41:05.469 --> 00:41:07.590

talked about jet chat GPT.

00:41:07.789 --> 00:41:10.090

And so I could find resources easily.

00:41:10.451 --> 00:41:11.731