Aug. 13, 2025

Mastering Modern Sales with Jim Pancero

Mastering Modern Sales with Jim Pancero

What truly moves buyers today? Jon Goehring, Coach Jim Johnson, and Dr. Rehnuma Karim welcome Jim Pancero — sales structuralist, author, and world-class sales coach — for a deep dive into the science and art of selling in today’s landscape. Jim...

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What truly moves buyers today?

Jon Goehring, Coach Jim Johnson, and Dr. Rehnuma Karim welcome Jim Pancero — sales structuralist, author, and world-class sales coach — for a deep dive into the science and art of selling in today’s landscape.

Jim shares why traditional sales approaches are changing rapidly and how focusing on customer needs and concise messaging (one to one and a half minutes!) leads to breakthrough success.

He unpacks:

  • The four foundational selling skill layers: attitude, operational skills, tactics, and strategy
  • Why most salespeople fail to follow a deliberate, multi-step sales process
  • How to engage buyers earlier in their buying journey despite information overload
  • The power of assumptive, validated questions that build trust and reveal real needs
  • Real-world examples of differentiating value and overcoming price-driven purchasing
  • Transitioning from top salesperson to effective sales leader with proactive coaching
  • Tools for weekly micro sales training that leaders can deploy instantly
Whether you’re an emerging leader, sales professional, or entrepreneur, this episode will equip you to sell with confidence, clarity, and integrity, standing apart in a noisy marketplace.

Resources Mentioned:
  • Jim Pancero’s free sales training videos & newsletter: pancero.com
  • Books: https://www.amazon.com/stores/Jim-Pancero/author/B001HD21Z6?ref=dbs_a_mng_rwt_scns_share&isDramIntegrated=true&shoppingPortalEnabled=true&ccs_id=523a8796-ae37-4acf-91b3-0acce29db53a
  • Contact: (952) 913-8998 | jim@pancero.com
WEBVTT

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This podcast is a proud member of the Teach Better

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dot com slash podcast.

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There's a term you could not use in selling anymore.

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It just does not work. It's too generic, and that

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is the word quality. Everybody breaks they have quality. And

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the way to be more customer focused is we have

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to focus on what they want in their needs and

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show how we can fulfill it, not lead with our

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stuff with them to figure out how they can apply it.

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Big difference in selling. We need to be more customer focused.

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We need to have a stronger message and answer to

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a customer's asking why base on all the options do

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I want to buy from you? And that message needs

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to be a minute to a minute and a half

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and that's all.

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Do you want to be a leader in a constantly

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changing world? Our emerging leaders look different, come from various

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backgrounds and from all different age groups.

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Leadership is changing.

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And it's hard to keep up. But the good news

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you can be a leader too. You can be an

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emerging leader. Welcome to the Limitless Leadership Lounge, a try

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generational conversation.

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For emerging leaders.

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Come spend some time with us to discuss leadership from

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three angles. The coach, Jim Johnson, the professor, doctor Renuuma Kareem,

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the host, John Gering a monthly guest, and you get

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in on the conversation on Facebook and Instagram, and be

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sure to follow us on Apple Podcasts, Spotify and Speaker.

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So come on in and make yourself comfortable.

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This is the Limitless Leadership Lounge and we're back for

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another week. It's a try generational conversation for you, the

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emerging leader. And if you're getting value from what you're hearing,

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what you're seeing, whether it be on one of our

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podcast platforms or up on YouTube, we'd love it if

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you leave us a review up on Apple Podcasts or

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Spotify or wherever you're checking this out. And if this

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is your first time checking us out on YouTube, make

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sure to hit that subscribe button see that you never

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miss any content that we put out there for you.

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Because we're talking with amazing leaders like Jim Pancero today

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and Jim has an amazing background that coach is going

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to get right into. I think he's been in sales

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since he was two, and we're going to talk about

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sales for the young and emerging leader, because it's one

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of the trickiest things about entrepreneurship and business. Coach, why

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don't you go ahead and introduce Jim today.

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Yes, I'm excited. Jim has been an Initial Speakers Association

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member for a long time. I also and we got

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connected through another member and we're really excited. So let

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me share a little bit about Jim. Jim is a

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sales instructionalist. Jim's proven a uniqueness and success is centered

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on his ability to translate complex selling and buying processes

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into simple steps and structures that being taught, retained, and

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utilized by his team. Jim has been influencing, guiding, and

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inspiring sales professionals in more than eighty different interest industries

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to increase sales market share and profitability. Since founding a

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sales training and consulting companyineteen eighty two. Jim is conducted

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over thirty one hundred speeches, Wow in Depth seminars, are

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consulting days for more than six hundred companies in over

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eighty different industries. Over ninety percent of Jim's clients have

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utilized his ideas and services more than once. Jim has

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been recognized by the National Speakers Association having earned the

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csp cor a Fight Speaking Professional designation, and has been

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inducted into the Speakers Hall of Fame. Jim without a

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further ado, because we could go on and on, and

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you've had a wonderful career and you're still making an impact.

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Welcome to the Limitless Leadership Launch.

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Honored to be here, Thanks for having me.

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And of course I've got this since by the start

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of your bio is a sales instructionalist, let's delve into that.

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What do we mean by that?

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There is really two approaches to selling. The problem is

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the first approach is what the vast majority of salespeople

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have done, which is they're intuitively effective. They were I

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love to ask is say, how many of you were

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told in a high school boy you either ought to

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be a lawyer or in sales. And that's usually because

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those are the two most obnoxious professions they could think of,

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and they knew you'd master one of them pretty quickly.

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So that as part of this idea that they're intuitive.

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So the average salesperson goes out gets a job selling

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with no experience beforehand, gets a job selling something is

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trained on the product is trained on the administrative function

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of how to enter in order, and then is thrown

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out the door and said, go sell something, with the assumption,

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if your persuasive and have a gift for gab, you

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ought to do good at this. Just get out of

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here and sell something. So they go out with absolutely

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no training. In fact, that was the first four years

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of my selling experience was I truly had no idea

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what I was doing. I started selling in college because

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I knew I wanted it for my resume when I graduated,

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because I wanted to work for a large corporation, and

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so because of that, I knew I needed to have

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a strong resume of experiences, and I knew I wanted

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to be in sales, but I had no idea what

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was doing because I had no training, I had no

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guidance or no coaching. And so the reality is then

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as when I started graduate school, I met a mentor

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and he taught me the structures of selling. And the

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idea of the structures of selling is the more tools

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you have, the more processes, the more pieces. The idea

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is we want to take selling from being an art

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where you take a canvas for each customer and paint

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them a unique picture, and we want to make it

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more of a printing press, with the idea that each

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customer perceives that what you're doing is unique for them,

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but you're following a very consistent process. Doctors do this.

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If you want to have knee replacement surgery, they're not

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going to do it unique because I'm six foot seven

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and you're not. They're going to give me the same

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surgery they give everybody else because they have refined the

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consistency to make it both efficient and effective. So a

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sales structuralist is saying, what are the steps? Ninety five

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percent of all salespeople cannot write down the steps of

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a sales call or have them accurate. They write down

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on steps that were obsoleted decades ago, but they're intuitive.

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They just kick it up as they go along. You

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can't increase sales every ten five to ten percent a

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year over your entire career by just intuitively getting better

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or being more liked. We've got to put some structure

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and process to it to make you more efficient as

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well as more effective. So that's what a sales structuralist is,

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What are the steps, what are the processes? What are

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the pieces and.

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Are you really six foot seven?

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By the way, yeah, I can stand up and show you.

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I just caught me off guard. I was surprised.

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I'm frequently large by way. My favorite happened as I

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was at a hotel, thirty story hotel. I remember I

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got on the elevator after dinner in the first floor.

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I'm on the elevator alone, second floor. The door opens.

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A little old lady had to be over one hundred

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and twenty years old and under five foot gets on

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and stands right next to me. As the door closes,

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she looks ups and she just says basketball. So I

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look down and I said miniature golf. Nothing always said

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the rest of the.

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Trip, intimidating people into there you go, it's one world.

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There, she's not a customer. It's okay, hey, But.

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I wanted to dive in further because we'd all talk

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about sales scripts and sales processes, is and all of

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you know, if you can sell a shoe, you can

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sell a hamburger, then you can sell a ten million

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dollar course, isn't sales just sales? Or have things changed

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where now over the years we now need to sell

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differently than we did when you just first started.

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Great question, I want to answer it to two parts.

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The reality of selling is for you to be effective

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selling anything a product, let's you call it a widget,

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that generalized term. You really have to understand how to sell.

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But you also have to understand the industry you're selling

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in and what the challenges of your customers are. And

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you need to know technically what you're talking about so

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you can bring value and solutions to your customer. I've

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told numerous customers over the years, I could never sell

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for you. I can train your people, but I can't

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sell for you because I don't have the technical skills

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of this industry. I didn't grow up in the construction industry,

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so selling new lumber for new home construction I wouldn't

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be effective because I don't understand the culture, even though

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I understand how to sell. So it's this combination of

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these three things. If somebody listening to this is brand

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new to selling, the first thing you need to do

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is learn your products. The second thing you need to

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do is understand the industry of your customer. Frankly, by way,

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this is not that hard. If you go into chat

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GPT and just say what are the top ten challenges

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facing Janituary janitorial supply companies. Today, you'll get a list,

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and the list is usually pretty accurate to at least

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give you a direction of saying, these are the issues

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they're dealing with. Now. I find as a sales trainer

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it is universal. The ideas of how to sell on

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how to work are very consistent with this and within

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how this process works. But the reality is everybody feels

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their business is unique, so to help them you have

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to show them what's going on. The second part is

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things are changing. It used to be that if once

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you pass ten years in selling, you could pretty much

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I don't want to save negative, but you could coast

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the rest of your career. You'd build up a strong

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customer base. See, you really didn't need to do a

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lot of prospecting, and customers liked you. You knew what

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you were talking about, you were persuasive. The problem I

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watch happen is I have seen more changes in selling

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and how the process works in the last five to

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eight years. It's been this major dramatic change and all

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of the processes compared to what it's been before. I

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believe there's been more changes in the last five to

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eight years than I've seen over my entire career. I

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have a visual I want to show you, and I'll

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read it off as we go through it for your

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listeners that are listening on audio. But there's several changes

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that have occurred in selling that are dramatically impacting us day.

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The first is sales calls are shorter. It used to

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be you go into a customer and talk for an

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hour about their Hawaii vacation to build a relationship. Buyers

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don't have time to day. They're overworked just like you are,

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so sales calls are shorter. A lot of times, the

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sales calls are five to ten minutes. You got five minutes?

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What do you want? And that used to freak salespeople

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out is becoming more of a standard because the customers

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don't want to waste time with somebody that doesn't know

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what they're talking about or doesn't have anything different than

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what they're currently buying. The second major change, and I

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believe it's the most profound of all of these, is

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that sales reps today are being brought in leader in

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the buying process than they ever have before. The example

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I use in my talks is that if you and

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your family want to buy a hot tub ten or

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fifteen years ago, what would you have done. You've gone

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to a hot tub store and picked up some grochers,

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talked to a sales rep, come home, talk to the family.

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If you wanted to buy it today, what would you do?

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Go online? And that's only for the older people, because

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studies have shown that the younger people and John here

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one of the younger people, so it don't mean to

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date you with this, but for most people, the younger people,

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they first ask their friends, then they go. Senior people

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they immediately go online, and the joke is because they

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don't have any friends anymore, but they will not talk

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to a salesperson. So now look at the challenge. Let's

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say you're a distributor and you have a thousand different

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products you sell through your distribution company. You're going to

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go into a customer who spent the last two weeks

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researching online exactly what that product can do and what

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they need and making choices on what they think they want.

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So by the time a sales rep gets a chance

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to talk to a customer, the customer is pretty far

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down the road of making a lot of decisions. Now

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that's not bad except for one problem. And the problem

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is most of the time they've made wrong decisions because

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they don't know what they're talking about. I've done a

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lot of training to find it. I'm really big in

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the HGD market. I ever heard of HGD market? No, No,

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it's heavy, greasy or dirty. Those are my markets. A

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lot of agricultural equipment. I've trained about four thousand John

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Deere dealer people, a lot of prodition and equipment sales

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are where most of my business is. And what problem, well,

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watch happened is I was doing this with John Deere.

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We were training their salespeople that were in the showroom

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selling light tractors and the four wheel riding vehicles they

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call them gators, as well as writing lawnmowers. And if

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we found in the spring over half the people walking

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in to buy a writing lawnmower was bringing in a

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print out saying do you have this in stock? And

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how much is your price? Where they'd already picked out

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the exact model they want, even the features. The problem

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we had, and we found immediately was over half of

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the people bringing a print out in had underconfigured pretty

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dramatically what they really needed. So look at the challenge

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in selling. If I say, boy, you need a three

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thousand dollars model, and you have a price for a

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one thousand, you'll start screaming bait and switch. You're being manipulative.

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So how we really redefine what the customer's looking for

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to gain more control of that process. Because we're being

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brought in later and they've already made decisions, We've got

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to understand and even see if we can adjust. That's

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one of the greatest challenges in selling today. We're being

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brought in too late. You're also seeing there's less loyalty.

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Customers don't have the loyalty they used to ten or

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fifteen years ago. They have relationships, but they usually have

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relationships with your competitors because that gives them back up free.

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So if I'm not selling to your company right now,

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and I'm trying to get to you guys to have

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you buy from me, you'll today you'll just hang me

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out there and keep me don't go away. I'm working

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to try to get you in. We want to give

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you a chance, maybe even give you a small couple

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orders to keep you interested, to keep me interested. But

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the reality is I'm just free backup so that if

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the main supplier screws up, you've got somebody immediately you

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can call with a relationship saying, hey, you got your chance,

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can you get me something tomorrow? So because that we

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see less loyalty than they used to be. So this

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idea of just reactive selling. Most salespeople follow a three

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steps selling process of show up, suck up, and pucker

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up are they going into The average sales rep only

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asks four questions on a sales call. Anything you need,

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anything coming up, anything I can help with, how's the family?

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They view that as a successful call. The problem is

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is just reactive and the competitive pressures are forcing us

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to be more proactive. We need to be initiators, We

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need to be predictive on what our customer's needs are,

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not just responsive. Those are the kind of challenges that

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are happening. So even if you have a I'll be

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doing a training program and I'll have people in there

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with over twenty years of experience, but they're still struggling

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with these things because this isn't the way they learned

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how to sell. These weren't problems in the past, and

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now these are issues we're dealing with. People, especially younger people,

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do not want to talk to you on the telephone.

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So I find my outreach. I will meet somebody at

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a meeting and they'll say, boy, we'd love to talk

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to you. See how you can help us. I will

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start following up and leaving messages for him. I don't

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leave voicemails anymore. So I found it just did nothing.

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So what I'll do is I will call you on

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your cell phone. As soon as it went to voicemail,

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which is like ninety five percent of the time, I

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would immediately hang up, and then I would send you

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a text message. So I find that most of my

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selling the day is by text because of trying to

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keep and connect, just because of how the culture of

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buying has changed. So we got all these differences. But

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you have salespeople saying I've been selling for twenty years.

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There's nothing new in sales. I've heard it all before,

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and I'd be teaching the class, not attending it. Average

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reaction to senior people, that's a.

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Good good point. Tell us as an initiator, being the proactive,

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give us a few suggestions of some different questions that

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you found to be more powerful in the selling process.

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The whole idea of questioning has changed. There's a couple

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of major changes that have happened that can make you

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more persuasive. The first is it used to be you

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can ask, frankly what I call dumb questions of a

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prospect and they usually answered them ten or twenty years ago.

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So I could sit there in our meeting and say, so,

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what's the biggest problems you're dealing with? What would you

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most like to improve in your business? What's keeping you

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awake at night? These general I don't have any proof

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of competence by asking those, but asking you to tell me,

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spill your guts and tell me all your problems. That

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used to work people actually would answer those questions. They

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don't anymore. You ask them a tough question, what's the

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biggest challenges you're facing right now? There's a good chance

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you'll get push back from that buyer saying, what are

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your qualifications? Why would I want to share that with you?

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So what I'm finding is there's a whole concept of

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how to ask questions. I teach a structure of questioning

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which says, today questions are more effective if they're assumptive questions.

335
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So if I'm talking to you and John about your

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sales team to wanting to do sales training for your company.

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I wouldn't just say, boy, what's the biggest things you'd

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like to improve on your sales because that doesn't validate

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any of my competency. What I would ask is to

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say that in distribution companies like yours, I see three

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major challenges that sales reps are facing that frankly, they

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usually don't have a solution for. The sales calls are shorter,

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the customers are harder to reach, and you're being brought

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in lead into buying process. How are your people dealing

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with that? Now? That still is triggering them to say,

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tell me what your problems are, But look what happened

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in that second example. I validated that I'd know what

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I'm talking about, especially if any one of those three

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rings the bell and that's what they're dealing with. We

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have there's all sorts of reasons why, but salespeople have

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lost the confidence of customers today. Their overall is a

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distrust of salespeople that you're going to take advantage of me,

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or you're going to manipulate me, or you're going to

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sell me much more than I ever really need. So

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because of that, people's resistance is up. So we have

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to break through that crust to lower their resistance. They'll

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never hear our message. To do that, we have to

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validate and prove that we have competence, that they can

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trust us to be able to tell what's really going

360
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on and what they need. And people that tell themarket

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me and they say, so, how's things going for you?

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And I'll tell them you haven't earned the right to

363
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ask that question yet. But this challenge of how do

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we validate so the customers will increase their trust of

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us over the average salesperson that they frankly don't have

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a very good impression of.

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Right now, it's brilliantly stated, and I think we're done here.

368
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That's it.

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I want to dive in deeper because we want more

370
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of your brilliance, Jim. I think I'm guessing that in sales,

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every call is unique. Everyone may react differently to say

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one of those three assumptive statements that you made, And

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that's why this concept of sales scripts is such a

374
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troubling concept for me. Yet so many companies hold on

375
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to this detailed sales script. For you, what is the

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role of a sales script and would it be better

377
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if we ditched them all together.

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Everything you watch on TV, Almost everything you watch on

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TV except for a talk show, is scripted. Every play,

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every movie, every word is written. If it's done, it

381
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doesn't come across that way. The reality is we need

382
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to have a consistency and how we sell. Look what happens.

383
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A sales rep works three months to get in front

384
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of a new prospect. They finally earn the write in

385
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there and they're sitting with the prospect. I don't want

386
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that sales rep trying to make up something unique for

387
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every customer they go into because the call is probably

388
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not going to go very well. We want them using

389
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what has most consistently worked. Now. And there's another visual,

390
00:19:50.240 --> 00:19:51.519
if you don't mind, I want to show you, and

391
00:19:51.519 --> 00:19:53.279
I'm just going to put this on full screen to

392
00:19:53.279 --> 00:19:56.839
make it easier to see. There are four sets of

393
00:19:56.920 --> 00:20:00.960
selling skills that a salesperson needs to be effective. And

394
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this is going to get to the personal of what

395
00:20:02.640 --> 00:20:06.200
you're talking about. Scripting the first the foundation of all selling.

396
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It's like building four stories on a building. The first

397
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floor the foundation is your attitude, energy. Are you a

398
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hard worker? Are you professionally curious. Are you excited about

399
00:20:15.920 --> 00:20:19.240
what you're selling? These kind of just energize. It's the

400
00:20:19.319 --> 00:20:22.400
zig Ziglar material and the Tony Robbins material. If you

401
00:20:22.440 --> 00:20:24.759
ever hear it either of them to speak, you didn't

402
00:20:24.799 --> 00:20:28.039
take any notes, but you were inspired. But they didn't

403
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really tell how to do things. They told you why

404
00:20:29.880 --> 00:20:32.720
you want to be more effective. That's say attitude and energy.

405
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A critical part of selling. The second part is your

406
00:20:35.960 --> 00:20:39.480
operational or your personal skills. This is how do you

407
00:20:39.519 --> 00:20:41.599
survive a sales call. Your knowledge of the steps of

408
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a sales call, how to close, how to ask questions,

409
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how to qualify, how to negotiate. All of the technical

410
00:20:47.319 --> 00:20:49.720
and product information you ask are all part of that

411
00:20:49.759 --> 00:20:54.400
operational because that validates improves what you can do. The

412
00:20:54.440 --> 00:20:57.960
third level, though, are your tactics. And the tactics deal

413
00:20:58.000 --> 00:21:00.920
with the process, structures or contry trolls of selling, the

414
00:21:01.000 --> 00:21:03.640
multiple steps. What do you do from the time you

415
00:21:03.680 --> 00:21:06.680
identify a new opportunity till the time you sell? What

416
00:21:06.720 --> 00:21:07.920
are the steps you're going to go through? What do

417
00:21:07.960 --> 00:21:09.839
you to different to the second call versus a fifth

418
00:21:09.880 --> 00:21:12.920
call versus the eighth call? And more important, how are

419
00:21:12.920 --> 00:21:15.200
you on that first call, going to position what you

420
00:21:15.240 --> 00:21:17.440
want to do for the next three calls, so you

421
00:21:17.519 --> 00:21:19.799
set the customer up to follow the path you're trying

422
00:21:19.799 --> 00:21:23.079
to set. Those are the tactics the multiple step thinking.

423
00:21:23.799 --> 00:21:26.160
The problem is most sales reps they only think one

424
00:21:26.160 --> 00:21:29.079
move ahead. The joke I use my programs is most

425
00:21:29.079 --> 00:21:31.720
sales reps are like the Hollari bird. Ever here at

426
00:21:31.759 --> 00:21:34.359
the Hilary bird. Yeah, it's a three foot bird lives

427
00:21:34.359 --> 00:21:36.279
in four foot grasp and his whole life saying where

428
00:21:36.279 --> 00:21:40.759
the hell are we? It's such a cute joke. But

429
00:21:40.839 --> 00:21:43.079
this idea that they only think one move ahead. But

430
00:21:43.119 --> 00:21:45.319
look at the challenge. If you and I are competitors

431
00:21:45.599 --> 00:21:48.079
and we're playing chess and I only think one move ahead,

432
00:21:48.079 --> 00:21:50.079
but you think two moves, how many games you're going

433
00:21:50.119 --> 00:21:52.960
to win that many? It's going to be all of them?

434
00:21:52.960 --> 00:21:55.119
Is that if you're thinking multiple moves, I'm only thinking one.

435
00:21:55.880 --> 00:21:57.720
So the idea of selling is how do we think

436
00:21:57.759 --> 00:22:00.599
and plan and have plans for new business ID to

437
00:22:00.640 --> 00:22:03.720
close process for existing customers? What are we going to

438
00:22:03.720 --> 00:22:06.759
do from January first to December thirty first? They have

439
00:22:06.880 --> 00:22:10.960
difference in uniqueness in how we're supporting that customer. And

440
00:22:11.119 --> 00:22:13.359
also the third major tactic is how are we going

441
00:22:13.440 --> 00:22:16.799
to get higher, wider, and deeper within an account. It's

442
00:22:16.839 --> 00:22:19.880
amazing that the average sales rep I see experience successful

443
00:22:19.880 --> 00:22:23.079
sales rep over half of their territory. When I have

444
00:22:23.160 --> 00:22:26.400
analyzed this, over half of their accounts, they've only got

445
00:22:26.440 --> 00:22:29.799
one contact. Now that contact could be the owner and

446
00:22:29.880 --> 00:22:32.000
could be giving them all of their business. They're buying

447
00:22:32.039 --> 00:22:34.240
from them and they're loyal. But what happens when that

448
00:22:34.279 --> 00:22:38.079
owner is either fired, it dies, or is promoted to

449
00:22:38.119 --> 00:22:40.799
something else, or leaves the company. What's going to happen

450
00:22:40.839 --> 00:22:43.519
to your relationship? If you have know their contacts, you're

451
00:22:43.559 --> 00:22:45.799
backed like it's a brand new prospect. So how do

452
00:22:45.839 --> 00:22:47.839
we get higher, wider, and deeper. Higher up to the

453
00:22:47.880 --> 00:22:50.920
executives that are making the real decisions, wider to the

454
00:22:50.960 --> 00:22:53.720
other departments, and how what we're doing is influencing what

455
00:22:53.759 --> 00:22:56.920
they're doing so we understand their needs and deeper down

456
00:22:56.920 --> 00:22:59.680
to the front line, is using, applying, or dealing with

457
00:22:59.720 --> 00:23:03.720
what we sell that gives a stability within an account.

458
00:23:04.440 --> 00:23:07.039
The fourth and final area is your strategic what is

459
00:23:07.079 --> 00:23:11.240
your philosophy, approach, your positioning and how do you differentiate

460
00:23:11.279 --> 00:23:15.319
your sale versus a competitor. So, as an example, I

461
00:23:15.319 --> 00:23:18.000
believe the toughest single question in selling that any customer

462
00:23:18.039 --> 00:23:20.319
will ask, and most salespeople are really bad at the

463
00:23:20.359 --> 00:23:23.920
answer is you're sitting there, I'm the buyer and you're

464
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the seller, and I say, okay, look, you're the third

465
00:23:26.240 --> 00:23:29.759
vendor I've talked to about this stuff this week. Why,

466
00:23:29.759 --> 00:23:32.279
based on all the competitive options available to me, do

467
00:23:32.319 --> 00:23:36.240
I want to buy from you versus anybody else? That

468
00:23:36.279 --> 00:23:39.839
causes most sales reps to collapse. They give a generic answer.

469
00:23:39.880 --> 00:23:42.000
The average answer I hear over ninety percent of the

470
00:23:42.000 --> 00:23:44.400
time when I ask that of salespeople when I'm doing

471
00:23:44.440 --> 00:23:47.200
research on a company is the answer they'll give is

472
00:23:47.200 --> 00:23:50.480
because of our high quality product, our strong little support,

473
00:23:51.319 --> 00:23:53.960
our competitive price. We're not the cheapest, but we're competitive,

474
00:23:54.279 --> 00:23:58.000
and you get me. And what's wrong with that answer

475
00:23:58.000 --> 00:24:00.960
is that's what ninety five percent of all salespeople selling anything.

476
00:24:02.240 --> 00:24:03.839
So if you stand there and say our high quality

477
00:24:03.839 --> 00:24:06.160
products are allo support competitive price, and you get me,

478
00:24:06.599 --> 00:24:09.319
the customer sits there and thinks, Okay, that's what I've

479
00:24:09.319 --> 00:24:11.680
heard from everybody else, So there is no difference. So

480
00:24:11.759 --> 00:24:15.640
I buy based on price. Price is the default in selling.

481
00:24:16.480 --> 00:24:19.440
There is no price driven market. I'm working in all

482
00:24:19.440 --> 00:24:22.559
these commodities, grain, I'm working right now with a company

483
00:24:22.559 --> 00:24:26.359
that sells steel and also sells recycling that you bring

484
00:24:26.400 --> 00:24:28.519
the recycling materials and they give you money for it,

485
00:24:28.559 --> 00:24:31.759
of recycling, all kinds of metals, all these commodities what

486
00:24:31.799 --> 00:24:35.599
other people refer to as commodity businesses, aren't because I

487
00:24:35.680 --> 00:24:38.519
work at them, and in every one of them there's differences.

488
00:24:39.079 --> 00:24:41.279
The easiest way to see the difference on the pricing

489
00:24:41.319 --> 00:24:44.400
issue is look at gas prices as you drive around

490
00:24:44.440 --> 00:24:48.839
your community. We have one corner near my house. I

491
00:24:49.039 --> 00:24:51.839
was just shocked because over the weekend, we were coming

492
00:24:51.880 --> 00:24:54.599
home and we stopped at Delight, and I'm looking at

493
00:24:54.599 --> 00:24:57.119
these three gas stations all in the same corner, and

494
00:24:57.240 --> 00:25:00.000
one was at I'm here in Dallas, so our gas

495
00:25:00.039 --> 00:25:03.079
prices are a little cheaper. But one was at two sixty,

496
00:25:03.160 --> 00:25:05.079
the other one was at two seventy, the other one

497
00:25:05.119 --> 00:25:07.359
was at two eighty, and all three of them had

498
00:25:07.400 --> 00:25:09.799
cars getting gas. Now you think if it was a

499
00:25:09.799 --> 00:25:12.240
real price, if gasoline is a price driven market, if

500
00:25:12.279 --> 00:25:15.160
it's a commodity, there'd be nobody at the two dollars

501
00:25:15.160 --> 00:25:17.480
and eighty centy up place because they'd be over saving

502
00:25:17.519 --> 00:25:22.160
twenty cents a gallon just across the street. But it's

503
00:25:22.200 --> 00:25:25.200
not price driven. So the reality of the process is

504
00:25:25.240 --> 00:25:27.960
the more of a difference in value we communicate improve,

505
00:25:28.519 --> 00:25:31.240
the more of a difference or own price customers will pay.

506
00:25:31.480 --> 00:25:34.960
So our messaging is critical. Our process of how we

507
00:25:35.000 --> 00:25:37.440
take the customer through it so we guide them to

508
00:25:37.519 --> 00:25:41.359
make it a more efficient process is critical. And then

509
00:25:41.400 --> 00:25:44.039
the third is that you're good on your feet. Now

510
00:25:44.079 --> 00:25:46.079
when we talk about it. We need to have a message.

511
00:25:46.119 --> 00:25:50.400
We need to have scripting. Scripting is a positive when

512
00:25:50.440 --> 00:25:54.119
you apply your own personality. So if I give a stript,

513
00:25:54.200 --> 00:25:56.480
it's really an outline. We don't give a memorized word

514
00:25:56.480 --> 00:25:58.279
for word script, but we'll say these are the three

515
00:25:58.359 --> 00:26:01.079
points you want to communicate for your message of uniqueness,

516
00:26:01.480 --> 00:26:03.400
so that you can use your own style. So if

517
00:26:03.400 --> 00:26:06.000
you're from the South, you'll use a lot of phrases

518
00:26:06.039 --> 00:26:08.920
and terms nobody in North would ever even understand, but

519
00:26:09.079 --> 00:26:11.240
works in the process. It's we're not trying to make

520
00:26:11.279 --> 00:26:14.559
your robots, but we're trying to make it more consistent.

521
00:26:15.359 --> 00:26:16.920
So like when you play golf, you need to have

522
00:26:16.960 --> 00:26:19.599
a consistent swing. So even though each placement of the

523
00:26:19.640 --> 00:26:22.279
ball is probably going to be different, your swing needs

524
00:26:22.319 --> 00:26:25.119
to be consistent so you can count on it. Same

525
00:26:25.160 --> 00:26:25.799
thing in selling.

526
00:26:26.680 --> 00:26:29.440
That's a good point. I'm just curious just to delve

527
00:26:29.440 --> 00:26:33.240
a little bit deeper, is there? So what would you encourage?

528
00:26:33.240 --> 00:26:36.279
Can you give us one example of how you can

529
00:26:36.599 --> 00:26:40.599
differentiate yourself with your thought process? Can you give it

530
00:26:40.680 --> 00:26:43.160
just an example of one of the industries you've worked.

531
00:26:44.160 --> 00:26:47.480
Well, the differences are based on us communicating value. There's

532
00:26:47.480 --> 00:26:50.240
something in selling came around in now nineteen seventies was

533
00:26:50.279 --> 00:26:54.519
a selling term called selling to the FUD factor. Fud

534
00:26:55.559 --> 00:26:58.640
selling to the fear, uncertainty, and doubt of the customer.

535
00:27:00.200 --> 00:27:03.000
Example it was working with it was another John to

536
00:27:03.039 --> 00:27:06.880
your dealer story. Sorry example of forgiving two. But I

537
00:27:07.000 --> 00:27:09.119
was working with the sales team to sell what they

538
00:27:09.240 --> 00:27:13.559
call a preseason inspection program. So right before it's time

539
00:27:13.559 --> 00:27:16.079
to harvest, let us take your combine in a couple

540
00:27:16.119 --> 00:27:19.680
months earlier and check it out, fine, tune it, adjust

541
00:27:19.720 --> 00:27:21.960
everything so when you need to harvest, it's going to

542
00:27:22.039 --> 00:27:24.880
work for you. Because if you break down during harvest,

543
00:27:24.920 --> 00:27:27.160
that's when everybody else breaks down, you might have a

544
00:27:27.200 --> 00:27:30.599
hard time getting servant. So to lower your risk critical term,

545
00:27:30.680 --> 00:27:33.880
to lower your risk, let us do a preseason inspection

546
00:27:33.960 --> 00:27:36.880
that might cost five or ten thousand dollars, but to

547
00:27:37.240 --> 00:27:40.640
dramatically increase the chances that you're not going to go

548
00:27:40.759 --> 00:27:43.920
down during harvest and you'll get the maximum crops returned.

549
00:27:44.720 --> 00:27:47.599
So this idea of talking to the customer about we're

550
00:27:47.599 --> 00:27:49.799
trying to lower your risk. We're trying to make your

551
00:27:49.839 --> 00:27:53.559
life easier. We're trying to either increase your profitability or

552
00:27:53.559 --> 00:27:55.559
lower your total cost. If we can show we can

553
00:27:55.640 --> 00:27:58.440
do that more than the others can by focusing more

554
00:27:58.480 --> 00:28:02.960
on that and showing ways support that, then we tend

555
00:28:02.960 --> 00:28:06.960
to get to business. So the difference is today are

556
00:28:07.000 --> 00:28:09.480
really not in the products. One of the things that

557
00:28:09.799 --> 00:28:13.400
really screwed up selling was around the nineteen eighties when

558
00:28:13.559 --> 00:28:17.759
and everything collapsed because the quality programs kicked in. And

559
00:28:17.799 --> 00:28:20.240
if you remember back, if you read about it in

560
00:28:20.240 --> 00:28:24.039
the nineteen eighties, the first one was ISO nine thousand,

561
00:28:24.640 --> 00:28:27.519
make sure everything is consistently done. Then six sigma came

562
00:28:27.559 --> 00:28:30.559
out of focusing on what quality really needs to be improved.

563
00:28:31.000 --> 00:28:34.039
Then Chaison came out and all these other ones. About

564
00:28:34.079 --> 00:28:38.279
one hundred different quality programs, and everybody adopted them. The

565
00:28:38.359 --> 00:28:41.559
problem is the companies that were most positively impacted by

566
00:28:41.599 --> 00:28:45.720
the quality programs were your worst competitors. That they didn't

567
00:28:45.759 --> 00:28:48.400
have good quality products, The stuff didn't last, they didn't

568
00:28:48.440 --> 00:28:53.079
have good support. Quality programs improved to everybody. So today

569
00:28:53.440 --> 00:28:56.279
and I apologize, but there's a term you could not

570
00:28:56.559 --> 00:28:59.319
use in selling anymore. It just does not work. It's

571
00:28:59.319 --> 00:29:04.400
too generic, and that is the word quality. Everybody brags

572
00:29:04.400 --> 00:29:08.400
they have quality. Ford Motor Company continues to advertise we're

573
00:29:08.480 --> 00:29:12.359
qualities job one. That was okay, if we go back

574
00:29:12.400 --> 00:29:15.680
twenty years ago or thirty years ago. The first car

575
00:29:15.799 --> 00:29:19.880
I got it was in the late nineteen sixties, and

576
00:29:19.960 --> 00:29:21.799
I remember my parents bought it for me. I was

577
00:29:21.839 --> 00:29:23.799
graduating from high school and they were giving me a

578
00:29:23.839 --> 00:29:28.079
car as a gift, this amazing gift. And we're sitting

579
00:29:28.119 --> 00:29:30.480
in the car dealership that the owner was a friend,

580
00:29:30.480 --> 00:29:32.200
personal friend of my dad. So we're sitting in the

581
00:29:32.200 --> 00:29:34.759
owner's office and he's giving me the keys, and he

582
00:29:34.839 --> 00:29:38.440
gives me this little pad of paper that was in

583
00:29:38.440 --> 00:29:40.839
a little plastic binder with a pen. It was a

584
00:29:40.920 --> 00:29:44.000
Chevrolet of the Chevrolet logo and it says we build

585
00:29:44.079 --> 00:29:46.160
quality vehicles. So here's what I want you to do.

586
00:29:46.799 --> 00:29:48.559
I want you to keep this path in the car,

587
00:29:48.640 --> 00:29:51.200
and anything you find wrong, write it down, and in

588
00:29:51.200 --> 00:29:53.720
two weeks we'll bring the car back, fix everything. Everything

589
00:29:53.759 --> 00:29:57.839
will be great. I had fifteen things on the list.

590
00:29:57.880 --> 00:30:00.640
I remember one of the windows wouldn't roll all the

591
00:30:00.640 --> 00:30:04.119
way down. This was major problems in this car, but

592
00:30:04.200 --> 00:30:06.559
that was normal back then. Look today, if you buy

593
00:30:06.599 --> 00:30:09.240
a new car, they say, I believe it is the

594
00:30:09.359 --> 00:30:12.400
average car coming off. There is like a less than

595
00:30:12.400 --> 00:30:15.640
a two percent chance a car coming off and a

596
00:30:15.720 --> 00:30:18.160
semilar line will have any problem at all. And if

597
00:30:18.200 --> 00:30:20.440
there is a problem with someone like the radio, they'll

598
00:30:20.440 --> 00:30:22.839
send that radio back to their supplier and they'll have

599
00:30:22.880 --> 00:30:25.680
a meeting as to why they send them invalid materials.

600
00:30:26.519 --> 00:30:30.920
So the quality programs everybody has improved. So because of that,

601
00:30:31.000 --> 00:30:33.880
I can't advertise quality as job one, because frankly, when

602
00:30:33.880 --> 00:30:35.839
they talk to my competitors, they're going to say they

603
00:30:35.880 --> 00:30:39.319
agree with that as well. It's a generic term. We

604
00:30:39.359 --> 00:30:41.799
can talk about the attributes and the benefits you'll get

605
00:30:41.839 --> 00:30:44.160
because of our quality, but we just can't talk about

606
00:30:44.200 --> 00:30:45.759
how greater products are and how we have such a

607
00:30:45.839 --> 00:30:48.440
high quality product because the customer just hears that as

608
00:30:48.559 --> 00:30:49.359
blah blah blah.

609
00:30:49.359 --> 00:30:53.200
So it's all messaging. It's all ultimately messaging in sales

610
00:30:53.359 --> 00:30:57.519
and even just using words effectively and branding. There's so

611
00:30:57.680 --> 00:31:01.880
much crossover there, So how is sale people? Do we

612
00:31:01.920 --> 00:31:06.119
recognize the need to not only be in our sales

613
00:31:06.400 --> 00:31:10.160
profit driven bubble, but step outside of there and really

614
00:31:10.200 --> 00:31:13.319
consider some of those additional features and benefits that we

615
00:31:13.359 --> 00:31:13.799
can use.

616
00:31:14.880 --> 00:31:17.640
I think it was JAYE. Levinson in the nineteen sixties

617
00:31:18.119 --> 00:31:19.920
was famous for the line that said, you don't go

618
00:31:19.960 --> 00:31:22.240
into a hardware started by a drill. You go in

619
00:31:22.240 --> 00:31:24.200
the harware store to buy the opportunity to make holes.

620
00:31:24.880 --> 00:31:27.960
The disconnect occurs when the repinue store is pushing their drills.

621
00:31:28.960 --> 00:31:31.559
Some people call it second step selling. First step is

622
00:31:31.599 --> 00:31:34.079
to satisfy the customer's needs and help them with their

623
00:31:34.119 --> 00:31:36.440
pain so that they get the second step to you,

624
00:31:36.480 --> 00:31:39.680
which is they buy from you. This reality of process

625
00:31:39.799 --> 00:31:43.039
is we can't pocus on the products. We have to

626
00:31:43.079 --> 00:31:45.680
focus on what we're going to do for the customer

627
00:31:45.720 --> 00:31:48.440
the results are going to achieve, And this gets down

628
00:31:48.480 --> 00:31:52.279
to the most fundamental aspects of selling. An example show

629
00:31:52.319 --> 00:31:55.559
you I teach my programs is most salespeople grew up

630
00:31:56.000 --> 00:31:58.920
being trained on a feature benefit or a feature advantage.

631
00:31:58.960 --> 00:32:02.319
Way to sell a feature of this pen is the

632
00:32:02.359 --> 00:32:05.279
cap fits on the base. The advantage to you is

633
00:32:05.319 --> 00:32:08.000
it improves the quality of the handwriting is demonstrated here.

634
00:32:08.599 --> 00:32:11.839
That's how most salespeople sell. But look what happens. I'm

635
00:32:11.880 --> 00:32:14.759
not focused on the customer. I'm leading with my stuff.

636
00:32:15.559 --> 00:32:17.079
So what we want to do is when we reverse

637
00:32:17.119 --> 00:32:20.079
that process and do a benefit feature approach to selling.

638
00:32:20.640 --> 00:32:23.240
It's a minor detail, but it has major impact. Where

639
00:32:23.400 --> 00:32:25.920
now I would say a benefit of this pen for

640
00:32:26.000 --> 00:32:29.039
you and your presenters is going to improve the quality

641
00:32:29.039 --> 00:32:32.799
of the handwriting of your people because the cap fits

642
00:32:32.839 --> 00:32:35.720
on the base. Now, look what happens. We've taken a

643
00:32:35.759 --> 00:32:38.720
feature and we've actually used it to validate the benefits

644
00:32:38.720 --> 00:32:42.359
we're selling. We need to be more customer focused, and

645
00:32:42.400 --> 00:32:44.200
the way to be more customer focused is we have

646
00:32:44.319 --> 00:32:47.079
to focus on what they want in their needs and

647
00:32:47.160 --> 00:32:49.680
show how we can fulfill it, not lead with our

648
00:32:49.720 --> 00:32:52.039
stuff with them to figure out how they can apply it.

649
00:32:52.240 --> 00:32:55.400
Big difference in selling. We need to be more customer focused.

650
00:32:56.000 --> 00:32:58.319
That's a great point. So Jim, I'm going to make

651
00:32:58.319 --> 00:33:01.000
a little transition here and I know we're getting close

652
00:33:01.039 --> 00:33:03.200
to the end and John'll wrap up. So my final

653
00:33:03.279 --> 00:33:06.920
question is you've given us some great insights on selling,

654
00:33:07.359 --> 00:33:09.519
but something I've done, just a little bit of work.

655
00:33:09.519 --> 00:33:11.839
I've spoke to a few sales teams certainly don't have

656
00:33:11.960 --> 00:33:14.759
the background you do. One of the things that I

657
00:33:14.920 --> 00:33:17.319
have seen because I've done some things with a lot

658
00:33:17.400 --> 00:33:21.680
of things with leadership is the traditional sales person that

659
00:33:21.799 --> 00:33:26.200
becomes highly successful in selling and now they get promoted

660
00:33:26.240 --> 00:33:28.640
to be the sales manager. And I kid people that

661
00:33:28.759 --> 00:33:32.000
often they become the sales mangler because I believe there's

662
00:33:32.039 --> 00:33:34.000
a different skill set. I know you'd talk to a

663
00:33:34.000 --> 00:33:37.759
lot of sales leaders tell us some ideas to help

664
00:33:37.839 --> 00:33:41.480
them making that transition so they become a better sales leader.

665
00:33:42.119 --> 00:33:44.960
There's a couple of problems and distribution. One of the

666
00:33:44.960 --> 00:33:49.920
problems is most distribution organizations are a branch system where

667
00:33:49.960 --> 00:33:54.000
they'll have multiple smaller locations spread around an area, especially

668
00:33:54.000 --> 00:33:56.799
if delivering heavy stuff to shorten their delivery costs. The

669
00:33:56.880 --> 00:33:59.599
problem I watched in several of my distributors. Is over

670
00:33:59.640 --> 00:34:02.000
half of the sales managers I get a chance to

671
00:34:02.039 --> 00:34:07.039
train never sold personally. They became a branch manager and

672
00:34:07.039 --> 00:34:09.559
now have two salespeople reporting to them. But they came

673
00:34:09.639 --> 00:34:12.119
up through the warehouse, or they came up through accounting,

674
00:34:12.440 --> 00:34:15.480
they didn't come up through sales. So now we have

675
00:34:15.480 --> 00:34:19.719
a sales leader trying to teach selling skills and coach

676
00:34:19.760 --> 00:34:21.840
selling skills to a salesperson when they have no idea

677
00:34:21.880 --> 00:34:25.840
what they're doing themselves. The second problem is most sales

678
00:34:25.880 --> 00:34:28.920
managers never receive any training on how to be a manager.

679
00:34:30.320 --> 00:34:33.000
Over half my work is in sales leadership training. And

680
00:34:33.079 --> 00:34:35.280
I will ask programs raise your hand if you've ever

681
00:34:35.360 --> 00:34:38.679
sold anything personally that you understand selling. Less than half

682
00:34:38.719 --> 00:34:41.639
the room races their hand usually. And the second thing

683
00:34:41.719 --> 00:34:44.880
I will ask about this is how much training did

684
00:34:44.920 --> 00:34:47.159
you have when you became a manager And the answer

685
00:34:47.239 --> 00:34:51.760
is none. We can strip job titles away in a company.

686
00:34:51.800 --> 00:34:55.199
There's really only three positions in a company. The first position,

687
00:34:55.239 --> 00:34:58.000
as you're a doer, your job is to do something.

688
00:34:58.000 --> 00:35:00.960
You have no responsibility for anybody else except yourself. So

689
00:35:01.000 --> 00:35:03.679
you're a salesperson is a due to sell or running

690
00:35:03.679 --> 00:35:05.400
a piece of equipment. Your job is to run that

691
00:35:05.480 --> 00:35:07.320
stamping equipment and get as much out of it a

692
00:35:07.400 --> 00:35:10.880
day as you can. You're a doer. The second level

693
00:35:10.960 --> 00:35:13.760
up as a doing manager. A doing manager has a

694
00:35:13.800 --> 00:35:17.159
split responsibility. They are responsible for doing as well as

695
00:35:17.239 --> 00:35:21.599
also supervising others. I was touring a metal stamping plant

696
00:35:21.639 --> 00:35:25.039
recently and there was pods of five pieces of equipment

697
00:35:25.039 --> 00:35:27.920
and kind of a semicircles. Each of the pod has

698
00:35:28.039 --> 00:35:32.199
one supervisor. That supervisor was running a piece of equipment themselves,

699
00:35:32.760 --> 00:35:34.880
but their quota was eighty percent of what their other

700
00:35:34.920 --> 00:35:37.920
peoples were for their daily production because the assumption the

701
00:35:38.000 --> 00:35:41.039
supervisor would not watch and maintain the other five people

702
00:35:41.119 --> 00:35:45.079
running the equipment. That's a doing manager. The third level

703
00:35:45.239 --> 00:35:47.960
is a managing manager. Now, my joke in my project

704
00:35:48.039 --> 00:35:51.840
is a managing manager does nothing. If I described your boss,

705
00:35:52.480 --> 00:35:54.159
the head of GM is not going to build any

706
00:35:54.159 --> 00:35:56.800
cars today, nor are they going to sell any It's

707
00:35:56.840 --> 00:35:59.800
not their job. Their job is to make sure everybody

708
00:36:00.079 --> 00:36:02.119
low of them has all the resources so they can

709
00:36:02.159 --> 00:36:05.559
do their job. The problem is we promote somebody that's

710
00:36:05.599 --> 00:36:08.719
been a great doer a salesperson and promote a management

711
00:36:09.320 --> 00:36:12.440
If they'll take the paycut. That's why they don't promote

712
00:36:12.480 --> 00:36:14.719
a lot of senior reps to management, because the reps

713
00:36:14.719 --> 00:36:17.360
don't want to take the pay cut. But they promoted

714
00:36:17.360 --> 00:36:20.159
the management, but give them no training. So the first

715
00:36:20.159 --> 00:36:22.480
time somebody brings them a problem and walks in and says, boy,

716
00:36:22.679 --> 00:36:26.960
the Johnson accounts really upset. Here's their phone number, that

717
00:36:27.079 --> 00:36:29.400
manager is likely to take it and call the customer

718
00:36:30.239 --> 00:36:34.000
and handle the problem themselves as a doing manager. But

719
00:36:34.039 --> 00:36:36.480
then look what happens. You just released a salesperson from

720
00:36:36.480 --> 00:36:40.079
many responsibilities and you're now the pinch point in your company.

721
00:36:40.239 --> 00:36:41.880
So part of this is we've got to make sure

722
00:36:41.920 --> 00:36:44.239
that the job of sales manager on a sales call

723
00:36:44.360 --> 00:36:47.719
is not to sell. That's the job of the salesperson.

724
00:36:47.800 --> 00:36:50.119
And if the sales manager tries to sell instead of

725
00:36:50.199 --> 00:36:52.840
the sales rep in front of the customer, that manager

726
00:36:52.920 --> 00:36:55.400
just took over that account effectively for the rest of

727
00:36:55.440 --> 00:36:57.840
their career, because every time that customer is the problem,

728
00:36:57.840 --> 00:36:59.800
they're going to call the real decision maker, which is

729
00:36:59.800 --> 00:37:06.719
the manager. The second problem is most managers are transactional managers.

730
00:37:07.679 --> 00:37:09.360
I've got a real quick visual I can show you.

731
00:37:09.400 --> 00:37:11.239
I think that can help with this. If you look

732
00:37:11.360 --> 00:37:14.119
and we lay out the selling process, the visual is

733
00:37:14.159 --> 00:37:16.960
showing just an arrow going to the right. On the

734
00:37:17.079 --> 00:37:19.320
very left hand side of the era we have identify

735
00:37:19.440 --> 00:37:21.719
and on the right hand side we have clothes. So

736
00:37:21.800 --> 00:37:24.000
if we look at one cycle of selling, the arrow

737
00:37:24.079 --> 00:37:27.159
represents the relationship is going to continue. But what's one

738
00:37:27.239 --> 00:37:30.559
cycle to get something sold? The problem we have in

739
00:37:30.599 --> 00:37:33.639
that process, besides sales reps not even understanding what the

740
00:37:33.679 --> 00:37:36.400
process is they're going through all the time, is there's

741
00:37:36.440 --> 00:37:39.199
a major critical change that happens right in the middle.

742
00:37:39.760 --> 00:37:42.519
And that change is the sales rep issues a proposal.

743
00:37:43.199 --> 00:37:46.079
And the reason that is so critical is the proposal

744
00:37:46.239 --> 00:37:49.880
is a turning point in that relationship because before I

745
00:37:50.039 --> 00:37:53.840
issue you my proposal, I have power, but as soon

746
00:37:53.880 --> 00:37:55.719
as the issue my proposal, I lose all my power.

747
00:37:56.280 --> 00:37:57.920
Before I issue a proposal, I would say, would you

748
00:37:57.960 --> 00:37:59.480
let me talk to some of your sales reps to

749
00:37:59.559 --> 00:38:01.800
understand more about what they're doing, to see what we

750
00:38:01.800 --> 00:38:03.960
could do to help train them and do better. You're

751
00:38:04.079 --> 00:38:06.719
likely to say yes because you're assuming it'll help in

752
00:38:06.840 --> 00:38:09.880
my generation of a proposal. But if I've already given

753
00:38:09.920 --> 00:38:11.400
my proposal and I say, by the way, would you

754
00:38:11.480 --> 00:38:13.559
let me talk to a couple of sales reps, You're

755
00:38:13.679 --> 00:38:15.960
likely to say, well, if you win the business, that's

756
00:38:16.000 --> 00:38:19.079
a good idea. The problem is most sales reps give

757
00:38:19.079 --> 00:38:22.239
their proposal too soon. Now, the next question is when

758
00:38:22.280 --> 00:38:24.760
do sales managers tend to get involved in this process?

759
00:38:25.360 --> 00:38:28.599
And what happens is for the average sales manager, they're

760
00:38:28.599 --> 00:38:31.599
a transactional manager, so they only get involved once proposal

761
00:38:31.639 --> 00:38:34.440
is issued. A lot of times it is only because

762
00:38:34.440 --> 00:38:36.440
that's when it shows up on their computer system to

763
00:38:36.480 --> 00:38:39.159
track it, or they see the proposal is generated. So

764
00:38:39.159 --> 00:38:40.760
now they're bugging the sales rep what it's going to

765
00:38:40.800 --> 00:38:43.519
take to close this. The problem is that by that

766
00:38:43.639 --> 00:38:46.280
point that the manager gets involved, the sales rep has

767
00:38:46.320 --> 00:38:48.679
lost all their power. So the only only for that

768
00:38:48.760 --> 00:38:51.199
manager to do is either cut the price or promise

769
00:38:51.239 --> 00:38:55.719
extra services, which lowers their margin. The change in management

770
00:38:55.760 --> 00:38:57.960
today is we need to move that forward to the

771
00:38:57.960 --> 00:39:02.039
first half of this. I call themselves process coaching, where

772
00:39:02.119 --> 00:39:04.519
instead of saying waiting till the proposals, they're trying to

773
00:39:04.519 --> 00:39:07.400
help close it. As soon as we hear of an opportunity.

774
00:39:07.480 --> 00:39:09.360
The manager says to the sales rep get in here

775
00:39:09.360 --> 00:39:11.639
and tell me about this account, and let's develop a plan.

776
00:39:12.719 --> 00:39:16.199
It's a proactive change of management where the transactional is

777
00:39:16.280 --> 00:39:19.239
much more reactive. Once a sales rep has some let's

778
00:39:19.239 --> 00:39:21.679
help them land it. We want it to be more

779
00:39:21.719 --> 00:39:25.199
proactive where the sales coach is actually helping guide direction,

780
00:39:25.559 --> 00:39:28.719
focus structures so that we can have a more efficient

781
00:39:28.840 --> 00:39:31.960
and effective way to close the business. So these are

782
00:39:32.000 --> 00:39:34.639
the kind of changes happening in management. It's a whole

783
00:39:34.679 --> 00:39:37.519
different environment. Just because you can sell doesn't mean you're

784
00:39:37.559 --> 00:39:38.960
going to be effective sales manager.

785
00:39:39.000 --> 00:39:43.360
It's such a good Yeah, that's such a powerful example

786
00:39:43.360 --> 00:39:45.119
of that, because we asked that question to a lot

787
00:39:45.119 --> 00:39:49.239
of people and we get different answers. But that visual there,

788
00:39:49.280 --> 00:39:51.599
I hope you're watching on YouTube because if you aren't,

789
00:39:51.679 --> 00:39:54.280
I recommend checking that out if you're listening to the

790
00:39:54.280 --> 00:39:57.519
audio right now, because that a really powerful visual. Jim,

791
00:39:57.599 --> 00:39:59.920
I know we're running down on time here. Really appreciate

792
00:40:00.119 --> 00:40:01.880
you coming on. But is there anything else you'd like

793
00:40:01.880 --> 00:40:02.559
to share with us?

794
00:40:03.440 --> 00:40:05.360
Yeah? I think that a couple of things. One is,

795
00:40:05.800 --> 00:40:09.679
wherever you are in selling, congratulations or in sales leadership.

796
00:40:10.039 --> 00:40:12.840
It's the idea that the success in selling is you

797
00:40:12.920 --> 00:40:14.719
work and you get trained and you do all these

798
00:40:14.719 --> 00:40:17.159
things and then you die. So if you don't have

799
00:40:17.199 --> 00:40:19.679
all the skills you need, that's okay, says you're still alive.

800
00:40:20.199 --> 00:40:22.360
It's a process. In fact, I joke and to say

801
00:40:22.559 --> 00:40:24.719
people will ask me what's the goal of your sales training,

802
00:40:25.039 --> 00:40:31.360
and I'll say, to help your team suck less this idea.

803
00:40:31.400 --> 00:40:34.039
It's an ongoing process. You never reach perfection in this.

804
00:40:34.800 --> 00:40:37.760
But there are three keys to a competitive advantage. I

805
00:40:37.840 --> 00:40:39.800
want to show a visual again, just list of three

806
00:40:40.159 --> 00:40:42.639
that I find that if you do these three things

807
00:40:42.639 --> 00:40:45.719
at the same time, the needle moves every time. If

808
00:40:45.760 --> 00:40:47.400
I can get a customer to work on all three

809
00:40:47.400 --> 00:40:51.880
of these areas, we increase sales consistently. The first is

810
00:40:51.920 --> 00:40:54.559
we need to have a stronger message and answer to

811
00:40:54.639 --> 00:40:56.920
a customer's asking why base on all the options do

812
00:40:56.960 --> 00:40:59.719
I want to buy from you? And that message needs

813
00:40:59.760 --> 00:41:01.679
to be a minute to a minute and a half.

814
00:41:01.719 --> 00:41:04.960
And that's all because if it's if it's a fifteen

815
00:41:05.000 --> 00:41:07.800
minute PowerPoint presentation, you'll be lucky to give it once,

816
00:41:07.840 --> 00:41:10.159
but you'll never give it again. If it's a one

817
00:41:10.239 --> 00:41:13.360
minute or minute and a half message to cover this

818
00:41:13.400 --> 00:41:15.280
is why we're unique or while we're different, or what

819
00:41:15.320 --> 00:41:17.320
our approach is going to be to help you better.

820
00:41:18.039 --> 00:41:20.199
We can then state that or pieces of it over

821
00:41:20.239 --> 00:41:22.960
the entire sales call. So we need to have a

822
00:41:23.000 --> 00:41:25.719
stronger and tighter message of uniqueness of why, based on

823
00:41:25.760 --> 00:41:27.480
all the options available me, do I want to buy

824
00:41:27.480 --> 00:41:30.280
it from you. The second thing is we need to

825
00:41:30.280 --> 00:41:35.239
improve our sales team's best practices, the structures the steps

826
00:41:35.280 --> 00:41:38.000
of selling. If you only have five minutes in a

827
00:41:38.000 --> 00:41:40.159
sales call, you better understand what the steps of a

828
00:41:40.199 --> 00:41:42.559
sales call are or you'll blow it. You won't get

829
00:41:42.559 --> 00:41:45.840
anything done. This happens at trade shows. Look what happens.

830
00:41:45.920 --> 00:41:48.639
Somebody walks into my booth and goes, what's that? And

831
00:41:48.679 --> 00:41:50.400
it's like pulling a string at a doll. I do

832
00:41:50.440 --> 00:41:52.760
an information dump on them for five minutes about how

833
00:41:52.760 --> 00:41:55.320
great this equipment is. Do you say thanks and walk

834
00:41:55.320 --> 00:41:57.039
out with a brochure? And I never talk to you

835
00:41:57.119 --> 00:42:01.159
again because I didn't follow the steps. So the idea

836
00:42:01.199 --> 00:42:04.000
of having best practices of selling to make you more consistent,

837
00:42:04.119 --> 00:42:07.480
effective and efficient. And then the third piece is we

838
00:42:07.559 --> 00:42:11.320
need more effective selling process coaching. The manager is getting

839
00:42:11.320 --> 00:42:14.719
involved in a more proactive, predictive way, not just waiting

840
00:42:14.719 --> 00:42:18.519
to help close business. With these three changes, that makes

841
00:42:18.519 --> 00:42:22.360
the difference. I have some tools I'd like to offer

842
00:42:22.480 --> 00:42:26.239
your listeners, and that is I've been posting for boy.

843
00:42:26.239 --> 00:42:29.920
It's about eight years now. I've been posting three videos

844
00:42:29.920 --> 00:42:33.480
a week on sales and sales leadership topics. The videos

845
00:42:33.480 --> 00:42:37.360
are all usually under ninety seconds and they're just talking

846
00:42:37.440 --> 00:42:40.119
about this is what's happening and selling or sales leadership

847
00:42:40.159 --> 00:42:42.599
and what you can do about one idea video. It's

848
00:42:42.639 --> 00:42:46.000
something you might want to consider following. If you're a manager,

849
00:42:46.519 --> 00:42:49.199
this is a great opportunity for you to train your people.

850
00:42:49.519 --> 00:42:52.880
It's free training. What you do is you show a

851
00:42:52.880 --> 00:42:54.719
brief video and then all you have to do is

852
00:42:54.760 --> 00:42:57.440
ask four questions of the group. First question is what

853
00:42:57.480 --> 00:43:00.519
do you think of the video? The second question how

854
00:43:00.559 --> 00:43:03.039
relevant are those ideas to us from what we're doing here.

855
00:43:03.880 --> 00:43:05.639
The third question is what do you plan to do

856
00:43:05.719 --> 00:43:09.000
different based on what we discussed? And then the fourth question,

857
00:43:09.079 --> 00:43:10.519
when you see him in the hallway later in the

858
00:43:10.559 --> 00:43:12.480
week or you talk to him, is to say, Okay,

859
00:43:12.480 --> 00:43:14.880
what success did you have when you tried the new idea.

860
00:43:16.119 --> 00:43:18.920
So by just showing a brief video and asking only

861
00:43:18.960 --> 00:43:22.400
these four questions, you can add ten minutes of sales

862
00:43:22.400 --> 00:43:24.800
training to every sales meeting you have with your team.

863
00:43:25.960 --> 00:43:28.760
We don't have to ignore sales training only once a

864
00:43:28.840 --> 00:43:31.320
year at the annual meeting of the sales team, do

865
00:43:31.360 --> 00:43:34.119
we do something. You can be doing this every week

866
00:43:34.199 --> 00:43:37.199
with your team, taking advantage of not just my videos,

867
00:43:37.239 --> 00:43:38.880
but a whole bunch of other ones that are out

868
00:43:38.880 --> 00:43:41.599
there that have good stuff, that are brief that you

869
00:43:41.639 --> 00:43:45.400
can use to bring new ideas to your sales team. Frankly,

870
00:43:45.440 --> 00:43:50.480
I find it's rather difficult to track people on LinkedIn

871
00:43:51.159 --> 00:43:53.119
to follow somebody. It tends to be a little bit

872
00:43:53.119 --> 00:43:54.960
of a challenge because there's just such a high volume

873
00:43:55.000 --> 00:43:57.920
of stuff out there. So I have a weekly newsletter.

874
00:43:57.960 --> 00:44:00.639
It comes out every Monday morning, and all it does

875
00:44:00.719 --> 00:44:02.559
is it has an article that it's hopefully a help

876
00:44:02.599 --> 00:44:05.760
for a sales manager, and then it summarizes the last

877
00:44:05.760 --> 00:44:08.960
three videos I've posted with links to those so that

878
00:44:09.039 --> 00:44:11.960
as a manager. I have managers subscribed to my newsletter

879
00:44:12.639 --> 00:44:14.159
just to be able to keep tracks so when they

880
00:44:14.199 --> 00:44:16.800
see a topic that's of interest, they then can show

881
00:44:16.800 --> 00:44:20.400
it at their sales meeting. It's free, there's no commercials.

882
00:44:20.480 --> 00:44:23.000
I'm not selling anything on it. It's support to help

883
00:44:23.039 --> 00:44:27.039
you help your team sell more. And the final point

884
00:44:27.079 --> 00:44:29.679
is I know that with your listeners all over the world.

885
00:44:29.719 --> 00:44:32.639
I know with your The following that you have is

886
00:44:32.679 --> 00:44:35.320
that if anybody has any questions about this material or

887
00:44:35.320 --> 00:44:37.719
if you would like my opinion, if you call me,

888
00:44:37.760 --> 00:44:41.159
I'll answer your questions. My phone number is my cell

889
00:44:41.159 --> 00:44:44.320
phone number is nine five to two nine three eight

890
00:44:44.400 --> 00:44:47.400
nine nine eight. My email address and you can either

891
00:44:47.960 --> 00:44:51.320
call me or text me. And my email address is

892
00:44:51.440 --> 00:44:56.039
Jim Jim at pansero dot com PA n C ER.

893
00:44:57.039 --> 00:44:59.639
Because I found we know you're good now. The only

894
00:44:59.719 --> 00:45:02.320
question is are you ready to get even better? That's

895
00:45:02.360 --> 00:45:05.159
the challenge in selling today.

896
00:45:05.199 --> 00:45:08.079
It sure is because we have an audience that you know,

897
00:45:08.280 --> 00:45:11.559
when you're immersing yourself in this kind of content, you

898
00:45:11.639 --> 00:45:13.960
know that you've gotten somewhere. You've already done half of

899
00:45:14.000 --> 00:45:16.199
it right, You've showed up. And I know, Jim, people

900
00:45:16.239 --> 00:45:21.119
at your events, people who train under you, they've already

901
00:45:21.159 --> 00:45:23.559
done the hard part showing up. But there's so much

902
00:45:23.599 --> 00:45:26.320
more to take advantage of in pincero dot com for that,

903
00:45:26.800 --> 00:45:29.079
and also if you're watching on YouTube, you could scan

904
00:45:29.159 --> 00:45:32.519
that QR code, but if not, the link is also

905
00:45:32.599 --> 00:45:35.079
down in the show notes, so go grab that free

906
00:45:35.079 --> 00:45:37.280
newsletter you could sign up for that. And what I

907
00:45:37.320 --> 00:45:39.239
love about your videos, Jim, I know you mentioned there's

908
00:45:39.280 --> 00:45:41.400
a lot of videos out there, but your videos are

909
00:45:41.760 --> 00:45:44.239
quick and to the point. And how many videos do

910
00:45:44.320 --> 00:45:46.920
we see with all that unnecessary fluff. So as a

911
00:45:46.960 --> 00:45:51.679
content creation guru myself, kudos to you for keeping things

912
00:45:51.760 --> 00:45:52.880
quick and to the point.

913
00:45:53.039 --> 00:45:55.239
I find my videos are very unique because they don't

914
00:45:55.280 --> 00:45:59.840
talk about myself, Yes exactly, I have not. If I

915
00:46:00.000 --> 00:46:02.719
a story on a video, it's only because to improve

916
00:46:02.800 --> 00:46:04.559
the point of what's been said, and usually why it

917
00:46:04.559 --> 00:46:06.920
didn't work for me is what I'm talking about. I

918
00:46:07.000 --> 00:46:09.239
believe that the way we communicate today is not through

919
00:46:09.280 --> 00:46:12.119
our egos of talking out great we are showing pictures

920
00:46:12.119 --> 00:46:14.760
of us with famous people or anything else. It is

921
00:46:14.840 --> 00:46:17.440
based on giving solid content so people want to have

922
00:46:17.440 --> 00:46:18.840
a stronger relationship with you.

923
00:46:19.400 --> 00:46:23.000
That's selling well, said Jim Pancaro. Check out all those

924
00:46:23.000 --> 00:46:25.199
links in the show notes and thank you, Jim for

925
00:46:25.800 --> 00:46:28.559
what you've shared with us so valuable to our audience.

926
00:46:28.760 --> 00:46:32.119
And I know nobody will leave this episode unchanged.

927
00:46:32.159 --> 00:46:35.239
We appreciate you, honored to be here, Thanks for having me,

928
00:46:35.800 --> 00:46:38.280
Thank you for joining us this week at the Limitless

929
00:46:38.400 --> 00:46:41.360
Leadership Lounge. To listen to this episode again and to

930
00:46:41.400 --> 00:46:45.360
find previous episodes, check us out on Apple Podcasts, Spotify,

931
00:46:45.559 --> 00:46:47.960
and spreakare. You can also get in on the conversation

932
00:46:48.159 --> 00:46:50.920
find us on Facebook and Instagram, then tell three of

933
00:46:50.960 --> 00:46:51.960
your friends to join.

934
00:46:51.800 --> 00:46:52.280
It as well.

935
00:46:52.719 --> 00:46:55.480
Coach Numa and John. We'll be back again next week

936
00:46:55.559 --> 00:46:59.280
for another try generational leadership discussion. We'll talk to you

937
00:46:59.320 --> 00:47:01.639
then on the Limitless Leadership Launch