Episod 85 | Building Trust in Leadership: A Conversation with Toby Travis

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Let's be honest, trust can make
or break an organization.

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It's the invisible currency that
determines whether people follow

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your lead or quietly check out
in leadership.

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Trust is everything.
Today on the lead with Hope

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podcast, we're diving deep into
this essential ingredient for

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lasting success with someone
who's made it his life's work to

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study, measure, and strengthen
it.

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Doctor Toby Travis Doctor Travis
is an international leadership

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consultant, author of Trust Ed,
The Bridge to School

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Improvement, and a leading voice
on how trust impacts

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organizational culture,
performance, and well-being.

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Together, we'll unpack what it
really means to build trust, way

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it starts at the top, and how it
grows or crumbles in everyday

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interactions, and how leaders
can create schools and

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workplaces where trust fuels
growth, engagement, and, yes,

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you guessed it, hope.
Before we jump in, a quick thank

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you to Craig Williams, founder
of Commissary, our legacy

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partner.
If you have ever felt like your

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story, your message, or your
brand needs clarity, Commissary

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exists to help you with exactly
that.

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They work with people who want
their voice to reflect their

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values and their purpose.
You can find their link in

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today's show notes and on the
Spark Hope website.

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Thanks to Commissary for their
belief in the power of story to

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create connection, clarity, and
hope.

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And now welcome to this episode
of the Lead with Hope podcast.

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Let's get started.
One of my favorite questions,

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Toby, on the show is when I get
an opportunity, opportunity to

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hear about my guests, their
story.

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So let's start there.
Tell us a little bit about you.

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Well, you know, I've, I've been
around for over years.

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So there's, there's a lot of
story to tell and maybe that's I

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think part of maybe the
uniqueness of my journey has

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been very different throughout
the seasons of my life.

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Grew up in a very rural country
setting and then being, you

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know, working internationally,
you know, so I have friends

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still who have not left the
county.

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And so you know that that's a
bit of my story and actually was

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involved in youth ministry for
many years.

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That was also a big part of my
story.

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And then I was in entertainment
for years and that was a big

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part of my story.
And actually a lot of that time,

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the productions that I was a
part of mostly were performances

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on school campuses.
And it's really interesting how

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years later, that knowledge of
seeing all these hundreds, maybe

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thousands of schools and their
operations has actually helped

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kind of feed a lot of creative
thinking about how to approach

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things differently when it comes
to to education.

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Obviously transitioned into an
education career and as a

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teacher and and then as an
administrator and a consultant

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and a writer.
Lots of different phases and

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kind of a unique pathway into
education, but very, very

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grateful to God for all those
different phases of.

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It's fascinating when you think
about our journeys because I

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don't know about you, but I had
this road map in my mind and I

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was going to do, you know, I was
going to be a school social

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worker for the 1st 10 years.
And then I was going to go into

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administration and stay at that
state same school until

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retirement.
The old saying is you make plans

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and God laughs because his plan
for our lives is oftentimes much

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bigger and much greater than we
can even imagine.

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And we know that gratitude helps
us to foster that sense of hope

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that I, I'd love to talk about.
And so I guess what I want to

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ask you now is what's giving
what, what are some things that

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are bringing you joy in your
life right now?

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Some of this may be the small
things.

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That's always people, right?
And in fact, a thought that I

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had on your previous question,
but it connects to this.

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You know, when I when I'm
leading a training or

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professional development or
whatever for school

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administrators, one of the
questions I'd love to ask is how

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many of you it was your plan, it
was your hope, your direction

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when you were in college or
Graduate School that you would

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be a school administrator and
almost no one raises their

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hands.
And then you hear people, it's

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like, well, then how did you get
here?

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So when I I see where I'm at
today, yet was never part of the

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plan and yet to find so much
fulfillment so much that comes

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back to affirm that no, this is
what God has for me and the

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impact it's having on the lives
of that's just myself, but the

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the people I get to interact
with.

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And so I say, yeah, what what
brings me hope and gratitude is

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just watching how God works
through relationships in

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unexpected ways.
And yeah, you know, that's what

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I moved from.
I was had been in ministry years

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ago.
I was in youth ministry.

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And one of the things that got
me so excited about Christian

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education was, you know, even
for short time, I was an

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associate pastor and I might get
2 hours a week of contact time

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with my kids.
And when I transitioned into

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Christian education and
realized, Oh my goodness.

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And interacting with these kids
all day long, five days a week.

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And then in a couple of
opportunities, I've been able to

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work with boarding programs and
I've got these kids literally

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every waking hour of the day of
the the opportunity for impact

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is is phenomenal.
And just again, very grateful to

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God for those opportunities.
Yeah.

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And when I reflect back on my
journey, you know, the times

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that I felt most purposeful and
most grounded, grateful is it's

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when I could connect with the
kids.

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I loved going into the cafeteria
and just talking to them, seeing

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what they had going on in their
lives and what they were looking

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forward to.
Toby, as you reflect on your

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journey, are there any lessons
or maybe experiences you want to

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share from your life and
leadership?

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I think watching communities and
cultures intentionally get to a

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better place.
I think that's So it's both

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reflecting on.
There's been, you know, every

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community, whether it's in a
school community or church

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community or business community.
There's drama, right?

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It's because we've got people.
Yeah.

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You know, you, you, if you got a
campus of, you know, 5-6 hundred

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kids, well, then you've got 100
or 200 adult staffers and then

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you got, you know, 1200 parents
and grandparents and you throw

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those people into the mix.
You got people, you got

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challenges.
But I think when I and I think

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you're OK.
What are some specific times

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where I I've again garnered hope
and I'm grateful is when

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communities have chosen to bond
and to gather around shared

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values to get to a desired end.
There's a lot of schools and

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organizations to talk about
being mission centered and it's

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hard work, but when they really
do it, it does change

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communities.
Let me give you give you a very

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specific example.
I remember coming into a school

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environment that you could not
label anything other than toxic.

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And the more I got into it, the
more early, Oh my goodness,

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there's just a lot of broken
people here and hurt feelings.

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And one of the, the practices I
saw that was being allowed and

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that would, went on in that
culture was just bashing people

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through text and no control
about where these texts or

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emails went and just people
saying awful, horrendous things

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in capital letters, you know,
and sharing their grievance with

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the world.
And, and I was invited into the

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administration of that team.
And one of the very first things

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I said, hey, we've got to, we've
got to set the bar higher here

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and how we communicate with each
other in this community.

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And so we talked about putting
together and we did, we put

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together a new policy as part of
our, and our, we updated our,

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our grievance policy as well.
But we just said electronic

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communication is for information
only and that you are not, and

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we will not participate in any
grievance or any kind of

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complaint or frustration that
you can document your grievance,

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your frustration or you should
document things.

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But e-mail is not and text
messaging is not the instrument

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to do that.
And we will not communicate with

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each other in that way any
longer.

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Well, we set that stand and what
was it's interesting is everyone

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resonated with the policy.
Everybody agreed they're like,

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yes, yes.
And literally you could tell a,

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a sense of improvement in just
the behavior of everybody and

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just this general work
environment.

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Literally within weeks, you
could see how people were

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treating each other better.
So again, it's one little small

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example, but it's when you
intentionally live out your

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values, you know, so, and that's
how we came to that was we value

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each other.
We value personal conversation

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and communication and, and we
also saw the damage of what

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electronic communication can be
and we took action on it and it

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was transformative.
And every school I've worked in

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since that's that's been a
foundation, one of our protocols

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or our norms is e-mail us for
information for issues.

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And it takes courage, it takes a
lot of courage for

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administrators to acknowledge
that and then set that

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expectation through policy and,
and then follow through and

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follow that policy and hold
people accountable.

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And I believe people want that,
but the process of getting there

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is not always pleasant.
Well, no, but you've got to give

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people voice.
So, you know, even, you know, I

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think back how we got there was
no, we had, we talked about the

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elephant in the room.
You know, we so in faculty and

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staff meetings, we said, hey,
this is what I'm observing or

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we're observing, and we'd really
like to see a solution to that.

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So it wasn't a mandate from, you
know, from the administration.

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It was a conversation with
faculty and staff about, hey,

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does everybody recognize this
problem?

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And I mean, you know, our hands
went up the conversations where

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it was like, duh.
And so it really was a community

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agreeing, hey, let's hold
ourselves accountable.

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Let's behave and let's treat
each other professionally and

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respectfully and and that there
are appropriate ways to deal

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with our frustrations.
Boom, that you know that that

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again, it was, it really was
transformational.

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Yeah, ownership.
You know, everybody's taking

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ownership there.
That is definitely

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transformational.
Now I talk about a system of

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hope being habits, optimistic
mindset, purpose and excellence.

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And today I'm going to have a
coaching cohort session where

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we're talking about purpose and
core values.

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Is one of the topics on the
agenda.

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When you think about core values
in an organization, can you link

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that to a school leaders values
and the organizational values

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and the importance they're in?
Absolutely.

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And as I think you're aware, you
know, that was my doctoral work

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was in trusted leadership.
And and so we we look deeply at

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the connection between basically
skill sets, competencies,

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behaviors of leaders and what
builds or what, what erodes

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trust.
And I use in illustration in my

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book of a bridge.
And actually I have to give my

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wife always full credit for
that.

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She came up with the
illustration.

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You're a very smart man to do
that.

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I, I had finished my
dissertation.

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I had all this material, you
know, and I, I remember I was

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invited to do one of my first
trainings after I'd finished

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that work and, and I was like,
there's too much here.

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I've got, I need a visual
picture of what this all looks

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like.
And, and Tanya goes, well, isn't

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that just like a bridge?
You need all these components

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working together for people to
trust you.

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And I'm like, yeah, that's
brilliant.

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And so I went back and actually
I spent about 3 months reading

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everything I get my hands on
about bridge construction and,

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and then look for corollaries,
but very quickly.

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So I talk about the foundation
of the bridge of trust.

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Leadership is our beliefs, our
values, and the substructure of

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the bridge is that connecting,
that supporting and connecting

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everything we do to our beliefs
and our values.

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And here's what I found in the
research.

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Trust is most frequently broken
when our actions, right?

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When, when, what we say, what we
do, our protocols, our programs

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are not in alignment with who we
say we are or what we say we

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believe.
Take it to a school setting,

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school leaders, administrators,
owners in a private school

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setting, you know, they say
teachers are our highest value,

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right?
We, we know teachers are the

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essence of the school.
We, they are our highest value.

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And that's a stated belief or a
core value.

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But then the substructure start
looking at their policies.

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You start looking at basically
how much are they being an

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advocate then for teachers and
the teacher world.

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And if that's not in place,
well, they're not going to be

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trusted, right?
If you say teachers are my

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highest value, but as
administrator, I've not taken

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any active work to ensure they
have competitive compensation

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and packages and resources and
processing everything I do by

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how does this impact teachers,
then no, I'm not being trusted.

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So there there's a direct
correlation to beliefs and

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values and the level of trust.
Yeah.

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What would you say about about
the turnover in administration?

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You know, in Illinois here the
IPA has put out some information

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about every four years a
principal changes with that

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frequent turnover.
How does that affect trust?

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Well, and This is why mission,
vision, values, priorities, they

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have to be articulated.
They have to be real.

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When we recruit an
administrator, it needs to be in

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alignment with those elements.
Often the reason?

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Well, in fact, I know we can
pray look at numerous cities.

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The number one reason those
administrators are not staying

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is because they don't feel
supported by their leadership.

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And when you drill down into a
what, what is it that's not

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being supported?
Well, again, it's this

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misalignment of who we say we
are and what we're actually

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doing.
And, and so you've got to go

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back and be sure what one of the
exercises I do for schools ready

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is take a look at their
operation manuals or their

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student and parent handbooks and
just go through your handbooks

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and your policy manuals and look
to see, is there anything in

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here that is based on the
assumption of distrust?

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In other words, we had this
policy because we don't trust

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our people.
Well, that that that's a policy

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that's breeding a toxic work
environment.

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And if you got to have policies
in place because you can't trust

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your employees, you've got the
wrong employees.

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So it's all it comes back to the
HR, right?

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It goes back to the hiring at
the very beginning is and this

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way it'll when I'm hiring, we
spent a lot of time talking

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about mission vision values and
priorities.

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And is there alignment here?
Because when there is alignment

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and it's real and you've got
shared direction, you know, I'm

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sure you're familiar with good
to great Jim Collins work,

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right?
When you're all on the same bus

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going to same direction, you're
far more likely to have success

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in reaching that.
But if you don't have the right

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people on the bus, then you need
to get them off the bus.

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And we've all seen that image
where, you know, you got the

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boat on the water and you're
rowing like crazy, but

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somebodies in the back of the
boat drilling a hole in the

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boat, you know, and it sounds
like this mission vision values,

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all the business alignment is
what it requires to get that

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boat headed down downstream
going in the same direction,

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making that impact that we all
want to make in education I.

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Frequently serve on an
accreditation team so I'll go in

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as part of the team and
evaluating schools and campuses

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and what are the standard
questions that we receive as as

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team members for going in and
and doing those accreditation

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visits is part of our protocol
is asking as many people as

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possible on campus.
What's the mission of the school

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and to see how many people
students, parents, employees,

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00:16:50,080 --> 00:16:53,120
faculty, staff that men can
articulate the mission of the

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00:16:53,120 --> 00:16:55,160
school and what you invariably
find.

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00:16:55,160 --> 00:16:58,760
And the reason we do that
practice is because when a

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community knows and understands
and shares of that vision, I

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know why I'm here, I know where
we're going.

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And you're far more likely to
actually make progress towards

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00:17:07,680 --> 00:17:10,760
that, towards that goal.
But when people don't know where

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they're headed in the bridge
illustration that that's

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00:17:13,839 --> 00:17:18,240
basically the, the roadway of
the bridge is it should be very

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00:17:18,240 --> 00:17:20,800
clear and simple, right?
You want clear markings.

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You want to know what your lane
is.

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00:17:22,319 --> 00:17:26,040
And when you do it's, it's a
straight shot to go from here to

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00:17:26,040 --> 00:17:27,839
there on that deck of the
bridge.

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00:17:28,119 --> 00:17:32,000
But if there's potholes or if
there aren't clear lanes, you

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00:17:32,000 --> 00:17:36,240
know, then it's it's hazardous.
So that element of clear mission

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00:17:36,240 --> 00:17:40,200
and direction critical to the
health of of any school.

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00:17:40,720 --> 00:17:43,120
Yeah, Brené Brown says Clear is
kind.

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00:17:43,440 --> 00:17:47,360
And I couldn't agree with that
statement more, especially in

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schools and in Illinois.
We have over 850 school

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00:17:52,840 --> 00:17:57,120
districts in Illinois.
And so looking at that, a lot of

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those districts are rural, a lot
of them are are small.

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The district I most recently
served in was just under 500

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students.
And some of the times, not

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00:18:09,960 --> 00:18:14,080
always, but some of the times in
those school districts, the

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00:18:14,080 --> 00:18:20,400
systems, the the processes, the
procedures, they are at best

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00:18:20,440 --> 00:18:24,040
rudimentary.
And so I find that people, when

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00:18:24,040 --> 00:18:27,840
those systems processes, they're
not in place, there's not that

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00:18:27,840 --> 00:18:31,800
clarity and and people are
working harder than they need to

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00:18:31,800 --> 00:18:34,880
work.
And so in addition to being very

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00:18:34,880 --> 00:18:38,000
clear about the mission and the
vision and the values, what

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00:18:38,000 --> 00:18:41,160
would you say about the systems,
whether they're in place or not

320
00:18:41,160 --> 00:18:43,320
in a school district?
Well, you've probably heard the,

321
00:18:43,440 --> 00:18:46,760
you know, the old saying best
practice must be contextualized,

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00:18:46,840 --> 00:18:49,080
right?
Where anybody who's credible in

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00:18:49,440 --> 00:18:52,160
the quality education today,
we're fans of research based

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00:18:52,160 --> 00:18:54,920
best practice.
I absolutely support that.

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00:18:55,200 --> 00:18:59,360
However, it always has to be
contextualized and, and, and

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00:18:59,360 --> 00:19:03,640
what that looks like though is
every school campus is unique.

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00:19:04,120 --> 00:19:06,520
And you know, you're
articulating 800 and some

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00:19:07,280 --> 00:19:09,920
districts that are, and I'm
assuming we're just talking

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00:19:10,560 --> 00:19:15,240
public sector, right?
So I mean, another 25% of the

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00:19:15,240 --> 00:19:19,440
campuses in every state are also
private campuses, right?

331
00:19:19,440 --> 00:19:22,160
So you've also got all these
private schools that are going

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00:19:22,160 --> 00:19:26,240
through the same issues.
A very good friend of mine is a

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00:19:26,360 --> 00:19:29,960
school Superintendent for a
large district, you know, large

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00:19:29,960 --> 00:19:35,640
state.
And I think he's got 75 campuses

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00:19:36,400 --> 00:19:40,200
within, you know, his area of
responsibility.

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00:19:40,200 --> 00:19:44,240
And one of the things we've
talked about is one of the the

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00:19:44,240 --> 00:19:53,120
great frustrations and really
inappropriate approach to school

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00:19:53,120 --> 00:19:58,440
development at the district
level is making decisions at the

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00:19:58,440 --> 00:20:01,720
district level because every
school is unique.

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00:20:01,720 --> 00:20:04,880
Every campus is unique.
To be able to, you know, try to

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00:20:04,880 --> 00:20:08,400
make these operational decisions
up at this level and push them

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00:20:08,400 --> 00:20:11,160
down.
You're you're almost guaranteed

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00:20:11,280 --> 00:20:14,280
that it's either just not going
to work or it's going to be

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00:20:14,280 --> 00:20:18,880
frustration or because there are
unique, every campus has unique

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00:20:18,880 --> 00:20:23,760
demographics from student body
to community to faculty and

346
00:20:23,760 --> 00:20:26,560
staff, right?
Every campus has unique

347
00:20:26,560 --> 00:20:28,760
resources from physical to
human.

348
00:20:28,760 --> 00:20:32,560
Every campus has, you know, just
every diversity that you can

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00:20:32,560 --> 00:20:34,680
think about.
And so when you're making

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00:20:34,680 --> 00:20:38,200
operational decisions, they need
to be processed at the campus

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00:20:38,200 --> 00:20:40,120
level.
You got to make those decisions

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00:20:40,120 --> 00:20:43,840
at the the closest level to
who's actually implementing

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00:20:43,840 --> 00:20:45,400
these.
That's why again, I go back to

354
00:20:45,400 --> 00:20:47,800
the illustration of the, the
e-mail policy, right?

355
00:20:47,800 --> 00:20:50,400
It was no, you go back and you
talk to the troops.

356
00:20:50,920 --> 00:20:53,080
This is the challenge we're
trying to remedy.

357
00:20:53,200 --> 00:20:56,000
What do you think that looks
like here in this community?

358
00:20:56,000 --> 00:20:58,960
Those are the people who should
be making those decisions and

359
00:20:58,960 --> 00:21:01,800
then pushing those
recommendations up to the day.

360
00:21:01,920 --> 00:21:06,480
I get it, somebody has to be in
charge, but but how that gets

361
00:21:06,480 --> 00:21:11,240
processed is got to be processed
at the most basic level of who

362
00:21:11,240 --> 00:21:13,280
actually is implementing these
things.

363
00:21:13,360 --> 00:21:17,240
Yeah, that's so true, so true.
And and again, you know, like we

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00:21:17,240 --> 00:21:19,840
were talking about before the
ownership piece, I mean that's

365
00:21:19,880 --> 00:21:22,840
the only way you're going to
have ownership is if they are

366
00:21:23,000 --> 00:21:26,880
part of the process of for
creating the solutions and so,

367
00:21:26,880 --> 00:21:30,440
so important that they are part
of the decision making.

368
00:21:31,080 --> 00:21:32,440
And treat them like
professionals.

369
00:21:32,520 --> 00:21:35,560
You know, we, we want teachers
to be professionals, and then we

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00:21:35,560 --> 00:21:37,200
don't treat them as professions.
Yeah.

371
00:21:37,720 --> 00:21:39,640
It's like we're shooting
ourselves in the foot.

372
00:21:39,640 --> 00:21:43,000
It's like, no, we should be
looking for opportunities for

373
00:21:43,000 --> 00:21:45,000
teacher autonomy.
Let it run.

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00:21:45,760 --> 00:21:47,640
Don't do their thing.
Often when I'm training

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00:21:47,640 --> 00:21:50,760
principals and we'll talk about
lesson plans, for example, one

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00:21:50,760 --> 00:21:54,320
of my challenges to them is
never require a Lesson plan to

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00:21:54,320 --> 00:21:56,920
be submitted that you're not
going to look at and provide

378
00:21:56,920 --> 00:21:59,200
feedback on.
If you're not going to actually

379
00:21:59,200 --> 00:22:02,680
provide feedback to the teacher
on the Lesson plan, there's

380
00:22:02,680 --> 00:22:06,240
actually no value in them
submitting this to you.

381
00:22:06,240 --> 00:22:08,880
Now, there's still maybe value
in them doing it, but it's like

382
00:22:09,080 --> 00:22:12,680
it just becomes busy work.
And it's it's not, it's not

383
00:22:12,680 --> 00:22:15,520
meaningful.
But those types of systems have

384
00:22:15,520 --> 00:22:19,160
become so ingrained in the daily
operations.

385
00:22:19,280 --> 00:22:22,640
And again, based on distrust.
Why do we, you know, why do we

386
00:22:22,640 --> 00:22:25,400
force teachers to submit these
plans is because we don't trust

387
00:22:25,400 --> 00:22:28,560
them to do their job right?
Well then you hired the wrong

388
00:22:28,560 --> 00:22:29,760
teacher.
Right.

389
00:22:29,840 --> 00:22:34,240
Yeah, yeah, so true.
And when I was a principal at an

390
00:22:34,240 --> 00:22:39,120
early elementary center, my
motto was the lesson plans are

391
00:22:39,120 --> 00:22:42,400
for the teachers, right?
That the purpose of writing a

392
00:22:42,400 --> 00:22:45,160
Lesson plan was for the teacher
in the classroom.

393
00:22:45,640 --> 00:22:49,000
And it's not reasonable to
expect that you're going to

394
00:22:49,000 --> 00:22:53,280
receive anywhere from 20 to 100
lesson plans.

395
00:22:53,280 --> 00:22:56,440
And as one administrator, review
each and every one of them.

396
00:22:56,640 --> 00:22:58,280
So let's get rid of the busy
work.

397
00:22:58,280 --> 00:23:00,880
There's no need for it.
You know, if there are cases

398
00:23:00,880 --> 00:23:02,560
where you need to, that's one
thing.

399
00:23:02,840 --> 00:23:06,240
But I love the idea of only
require it if you're going to

400
00:23:06,240 --> 00:23:09,200
provide feedback on it.
Well, you just brought up again

401
00:23:09,200 --> 00:23:14,120
one of the key challenges with a
traditional school models in

402
00:23:14,120 --> 00:23:17,560
their operations that really has
to be resolved if you want to

403
00:23:17,560 --> 00:23:21,560
see teams excel and that's
what's called span of control.

404
00:23:21,560 --> 00:23:24,480
That was again, part of my
doctoral work years ago was

405
00:23:24,480 --> 00:23:29,000
looking at when does our
efficiency and our effectiveness

406
00:23:29,000 --> 00:23:33,240
as leaders diminish And you look
at how many people can you

407
00:23:33,240 --> 00:23:37,040
effectively lead and support.
Remember my first principal

408
00:23:37,040 --> 00:23:41,160
ship, I had 46 direct reports
and I'd come out of a, you know,

409
00:23:41,200 --> 00:23:44,920
kind of a corporate in a
nonprofit sector where, you

410
00:23:44,920 --> 00:23:48,600
know, maybe I had at tops a
dozen people that I was

411
00:23:48,600 --> 00:23:50,760
supervising.
And I'm all of a sudden I've got

412
00:23:50,760 --> 00:23:54,040
to support 46 people.
And to the right, your example

413
00:23:54,040 --> 00:23:57,800
there is like can I really
regularly look at 46 lesson

414
00:23:57,800 --> 00:24:01,440
plans and no them.
So the the most effective school

415
00:24:01,640 --> 00:24:04,840
operations I've seen is they
have, you know, they have

416
00:24:04,840 --> 00:24:09,000
dispersed or distributed
leadership to the greatest

417
00:24:09,000 --> 00:24:11,880
extent possible.
What we found in the research on

418
00:24:11,880 --> 00:24:16,440
Spanish control is our effective
dismissed after six to 10 people

419
00:24:16,440 --> 00:24:19,680
Max that we're managing right
beyond that we lose our

420
00:24:19,680 --> 00:24:21,920
effectiveness as leaders to
support them.

421
00:24:22,240 --> 00:24:27,120
So then a great exercise for
schools to look at is how do we

422
00:24:27,120 --> 00:24:30,400
distribute the leadership so
that we've got teams working.

423
00:24:30,840 --> 00:24:34,000
You've got a lower elementary
coordinator, upper elementary

424
00:24:34,000 --> 00:24:37,080
court, you know, you, you, you
disperse and you empower those

425
00:24:37,080 --> 00:24:39,640
folks to lead in those smaller
teams.

426
00:24:39,640 --> 00:24:42,760
And the effectiveness and the
leveling engagement, that was

427
00:24:42,760 --> 00:24:46,760
another thing that we found Woo.
It just goes really, really

428
00:24:46,760 --> 00:24:48,040
high.
That's powerful.

429
00:24:48,040 --> 00:24:51,760
I love that idea of empowering
the leaders because we are

430
00:24:51,760 --> 00:24:53,760
building capacity when we're
doing that.

431
00:24:53,760 --> 00:24:58,240
So that's that's beautiful.
Sustainability Brandy and also

432
00:24:58,360 --> 00:25:01,320
succession, right.
So again, back to we all know

433
00:25:01,320 --> 00:25:04,040
about the turn around, right.
So in Illinois you're saying

434
00:25:04,040 --> 00:25:06,400
principals are four years.
I think the national stats are

435
00:25:06,400 --> 00:25:10,440
just a little over three.
Yeah, I mean we we see this and

436
00:25:10,440 --> 00:25:13,240
there's multiple reasons I
believe why that's going on.

437
00:25:13,240 --> 00:25:16,880
But also how do you address to
sustainability and succession?

438
00:25:16,880 --> 00:25:20,400
Well, you got to be continually
building up leaders generally

439
00:25:20,400 --> 00:25:23,120
investing in those that that are
coming up.

440
00:25:23,320 --> 00:25:27,880
Being intentional, yeah, that's
so important and creating that

441
00:25:27,880 --> 00:25:32,440
next generation of leaders who
are going to take over where we

442
00:25:32,440 --> 00:25:36,040
leave off because at the end of
the day, we want our work to be

443
00:25:36,040 --> 00:25:38,960
continued.
We want to create something,

444
00:25:39,000 --> 00:25:44,680
leave a legacy that is going to
continue this this work forward

445
00:25:44,680 --> 00:25:47,280
and help our students and
education.

446
00:25:47,280 --> 00:25:50,680
And so it's a very important to
have that succession plan.

447
00:25:50,720 --> 00:25:54,320
Let's pause for just a moment
because I want to tell you about

448
00:25:54,320 --> 00:25:58,280
a partner who truly aligns with
the heart of this podcast,

449
00:25:58,320 --> 00:26:01,000
Commissary here on Lead with
Hope.

450
00:26:01,000 --> 00:26:05,800
We talk a lot about clarity,
clarity of purpose, clarity of

451
00:26:05,800 --> 00:26:10,040
voice and clarity of direction.
And that is exactly where

452
00:26:10,040 --> 00:26:14,080
commissary comes in.
They help leaders, educators,

453
00:26:14,160 --> 00:26:18,560
and change makers uncover the
story behind their work and

454
00:26:18,560 --> 00:26:22,600
share it in a way that feels
honest, meaningful, and deeply

455
00:26:22,600 --> 00:26:26,640
aligned with who they are.
If you have ever felt the nudge

456
00:26:26,640 --> 00:26:30,120
to write a book, refine your
message, or build a brand that

457
00:26:30,120 --> 00:26:34,800
actually reflects your values,
not just your resume, Commissary

458
00:26:34,800 --> 00:26:39,040
doesn't rush you or box you in.
They walk alongside you, helping

459
00:26:39,040 --> 00:26:42,400
you Share your story with
intention and integrity.

460
00:26:43,040 --> 00:26:45,840
You can learn more by clicking
their link in the show notes or

461
00:26:45,840 --> 00:26:48,240
visiting them through the Spark
Hope website.

462
00:26:48,720 --> 00:26:52,200
A big thank you to Craig
Williams and Commissary for

463
00:26:52,200 --> 00:26:56,280
being a legacy sponsor of this
podcast and for investing in

464
00:26:56,280 --> 00:26:58,680
stories that matter.
Because when we share our

465
00:26:58,680 --> 00:27:02,840
stories, when we share them with
clarity and with hope, real

466
00:27:02,960 --> 00:27:07,320
change happens.
Can you share maybe a challenge

467
00:27:07,320 --> 00:27:10,840
or something that has been
difficult in your leadership

468
00:27:10,840 --> 00:27:13,200
that has helped you to become
the man you are today?

469
00:27:13,520 --> 00:27:16,240
Actually, when I was just
talking about with a friend of

470
00:27:16,240 --> 00:27:18,960
mine was reflecting back, we
were talking about change

471
00:27:18,960 --> 00:27:24,360
management and how do you ensure
you know healthy movement

472
00:27:24,440 --> 00:27:26,240
towards whatever the end goal
is.

473
00:27:26,240 --> 00:27:30,480
And I, I was reflecting back at
a school where I had been

474
00:27:30,480 --> 00:27:35,120
invited to help lead the school
into a kind of a new direction

475
00:27:35,120 --> 00:27:38,640
and a more fulfilled direction,
again tied to their values of

476
00:27:38,640 --> 00:27:41,480
being more inclusive and being
more accessible.

477
00:27:41,480 --> 00:27:43,160
This was a private school
setting.

478
00:27:43,400 --> 00:27:46,880
It was a middle upper class,
white school, excuse the

479
00:27:46,880 --> 00:27:50,240
expression.
And yet they were not reflective

480
00:27:50,240 --> 00:27:54,280
of the community around them.
And so we started some

481
00:27:54,280 --> 00:27:57,800
initiatives on everything.
How do we increase our social

482
00:27:57,800 --> 00:28:00,440
and economic and ethnic
diversity, diversity of the

483
00:28:00,440 --> 00:28:02,840
school's makeup?
And we took intentional plans

484
00:28:02,840 --> 00:28:05,560
for that.
And what was interesting, I

485
00:28:05,560 --> 00:28:07,600
mean, this was being led by the
board.

486
00:28:07,600 --> 00:28:10,120
I mean, this was, you know, this
was bored empowered.

487
00:28:10,120 --> 00:28:12,120
This is with the way we want to
go.

488
00:28:12,120 --> 00:28:15,640
And and I remember having
numerous meetings with the

489
00:28:15,640 --> 00:28:19,480
faculty and staff and
brainstorming on, you know, what

490
00:28:19,480 --> 00:28:23,000
initiatives would look like.
We started hiring and developing

491
00:28:23,000 --> 00:28:25,280
programs and look for additional
funding.

492
00:28:25,360 --> 00:28:29,440
And I thought we were all moving
in the same direction.

493
00:28:30,600 --> 00:28:36,200
And when I learned because I got
blindsided, the parking lot

494
00:28:36,200 --> 00:28:40,760
conversations were not in
support of this new direction of

495
00:28:40,760 --> 00:28:42,880
the school.
And then within a couple of

496
00:28:42,880 --> 00:28:46,040
years time, things were coming
back to me that, you know,

497
00:28:46,040 --> 00:28:50,000
people are saying, you know,
Doctor Travis is changing what

498
00:28:50,000 --> 00:28:53,120
this school is.
You know, and I actually heard

499
00:28:53,120 --> 00:28:56,280
things like, we don't want those
kids on our campus.

500
00:28:56,280 --> 00:29:00,200
And I'm realizing, Oh, my
goodness, I did not take enough

501
00:29:00,200 --> 00:29:03,880
time to do what I was saying in
the early illustration of

502
00:29:03,880 --> 00:29:08,480
ensuring all stakeholders had a
voice and an understanding and a

503
00:29:08,480 --> 00:29:11,840
shared direction.
And I moved too quickly.

504
00:29:11,920 --> 00:29:14,760
Again, I had the support of of
the authorities.

505
00:29:14,960 --> 00:29:18,680
I had even team support and
belief of shared.

506
00:29:18,880 --> 00:29:22,520
But the community we were
serving, they weren't on board,

507
00:29:22,920 --> 00:29:26,280
at least not all of them.
There was a, a vocal segment

508
00:29:26,280 --> 00:29:29,440
that was not on board.
And that, that was a hard

509
00:29:29,440 --> 00:29:31,760
lesson.
Yeah, there was there was a lot

510
00:29:31,760 --> 00:29:34,960
of pain in that.
And so since that time, I, I've

511
00:29:34,960 --> 00:29:38,880
tried to be far more careful and
intentional then if where we're

512
00:29:38,880 --> 00:29:43,120
going is where we need to go.
Well, it might take us a year or

513
00:29:43,120 --> 00:29:47,320
two or three, right?
You need to take the time and be

514
00:29:47,320 --> 00:29:50,560
in it for the long haul.
And, and when we do, and again,

515
00:29:50,560 --> 00:29:53,480
when people feel like they've
got a voice and when that

516
00:29:53,480 --> 00:29:56,840
direction is clearly defined by
shared values.

517
00:29:56,840 --> 00:30:00,600
And and then that's also the rub
because it may be the direction

518
00:30:00,600 --> 00:30:04,080
of where the school is going is
not a value of some of the folks

519
00:30:04,080 --> 00:30:06,160
who are there.
And then we're back to Collins's

520
00:30:06,160 --> 00:30:09,000
bus, right?
Some people do need to get off

521
00:30:09,000 --> 00:30:12,920
the bus, but we eat as much as
possible for the health of the

522
00:30:12,920 --> 00:30:15,480
community of the school and
bring them, bring them all along

523
00:30:15,480 --> 00:30:19,520
and make sure you're giving time
to get feedback loops for all

524
00:30:19,520 --> 00:30:22,280
the different stakeholder groups
and give them opportunity for

525
00:30:22,280 --> 00:30:24,440
voice.
And then you're far more likely

526
00:30:24,440 --> 00:30:28,920
to to seek success.
But I I can confess I did not do

527
00:30:28,920 --> 00:30:32,720
that well earlier in my career.
I think we can all as leaders

528
00:30:32,920 --> 00:30:37,520
think back and if we're being
honest, we have moments, have

529
00:30:37,520 --> 00:30:42,360
experiences that we can share
that we were in the same

530
00:30:42,360 --> 00:30:45,440
situation.
And pain is a powerful motivator

531
00:30:45,480 --> 00:30:49,240
for change, right?
So when you think back about

532
00:30:49,240 --> 00:30:52,800
that experience, what advice
would you give the leaders that

533
00:30:52,800 --> 00:30:56,840
are listening in terms of
knowing when you've spent enough

534
00:30:56,960 --> 00:30:59,840
A?
Bit of a data geek, Randy,

535
00:30:59,960 --> 00:31:01,360
right?
You got to have measurables.

536
00:31:01,400 --> 00:31:03,600
You've got to know what the
target is and how you're going

537
00:31:03,600 --> 00:31:05,480
to measure it.
I'm a big supporter of SMART

538
00:31:05,480 --> 00:31:07,240
goals, been using those for
years.

539
00:31:07,240 --> 00:31:10,000
You know, specific, measurable,
attainable, relevant or

540
00:31:10,000 --> 00:31:14,400
realistic and time based.
And I'm a big believer in short

541
00:31:14,400 --> 00:31:16,440
term goals.
You know, how do you build a

542
00:31:16,640 --> 00:31:20,600
culture of school improvement?
Well, you set a lot of short

543
00:31:20,600 --> 00:31:23,040
goals in the trusted training,
you know.

544
00:31:23,040 --> 00:31:24,840
So how do you how do you build
trust?

545
00:31:24,840 --> 00:31:29,160
And how do you rebuild trust?
Make a promise, keep it, make a

546
00:31:29,160 --> 00:31:32,280
promise, keep it, make a
promise, keep it.

547
00:31:32,440 --> 00:31:36,760
And and all those promises have
Miserables, right?

548
00:31:36,760 --> 00:31:39,040
So how do you know when you've
been at Lowell?

549
00:31:39,520 --> 00:31:43,840
Did we hit our target?
And so you know, the front end,

550
00:31:44,200 --> 00:31:49,080
another tool that I use a lot in
my work and, and with those I, I

551
00:31:49,080 --> 00:31:53,520
support our action plans and you
just need 4 basic elements of an

552
00:31:53,520 --> 00:31:56,520
effective action plan. 1 is a
base first baseline.

553
00:31:56,520 --> 00:31:58,520
Where are we today?
Just be authentic and

554
00:31:58,520 --> 00:32:01,080
transparent. 2 is you need a
smart goal.

555
00:32:01,080 --> 00:32:04,320
Where do we want to be?
3 you got to articulate why we

556
00:32:04,320 --> 00:32:06,320
want to be there.
I'm sure you're familiar with,

557
00:32:06,320 --> 00:32:07,640
you know, like Simon Sinek's
work.

558
00:32:07,640 --> 00:32:10,960
Start with why it is critical.
You've got to be able to

559
00:32:10,960 --> 00:32:13,320
articulate the why.
That's what makes it authentic.

560
00:32:13,440 --> 00:32:16,160
It's just like in the classroom
with kids, you know, kids have

561
00:32:16,160 --> 00:32:19,560
got to know why they're doing
this learning or it's not going

562
00:32:19,560 --> 00:32:21,800
to connect, right.
So you got to you got to go why.

563
00:32:21,920 --> 00:32:25,520
And then fourth, you've got to
have specific strategies of what

564
00:32:25,520 --> 00:32:27,520
you're going to do different
tomorrow.

565
00:32:28,200 --> 00:32:31,720
And you got to keep asking the
how, how, how question.

566
00:32:31,920 --> 00:32:34,800
I learned this from Dave
Horsauger, who wrote the Trust

567
00:32:34,800 --> 00:32:38,080
Edge, also an excellent,
excellent book and is you got to

568
00:32:38,080 --> 00:32:40,840
keep asking how.
And so you've got a specific

569
00:32:40,840 --> 00:32:43,440
step you're going to take
tomorrow that's going to get you

570
00:32:43,440 --> 00:32:46,320
further to your goal.
But those kind of action plans

571
00:32:46,360 --> 00:32:48,480
will answer the question that
you're asking me.

572
00:32:48,480 --> 00:32:50,280
How are you know when you're
done?

573
00:32:50,720 --> 00:32:52,440
When you put the target.
Absolutely.

574
00:32:52,440 --> 00:32:55,880
And I think that target that
that action plan has to be

575
00:32:55,880 --> 00:32:59,880
visual, it has to be public, it
has to be put out where people

576
00:32:59,880 --> 00:33:03,760
can consistently see that we're
keeping it in front of the

577
00:33:03,760 --> 00:33:06,040
people that are implementing it
and the people that are

578
00:33:06,040 --> 00:33:08,840
benefiting from it.
And then the other piece of that

579
00:33:08,840 --> 00:33:13,480
that I'll add is celebrating the
wins, just small wins and the

580
00:33:13,480 --> 00:33:16,920
big wins along the way.
Because you know, Albert Bandura

581
00:33:16,920 --> 00:33:21,320
talks about the four sources of
self efficacy and, and having

582
00:33:21,320 --> 00:33:25,360
those mastery experiences and
reinforcing those and sharing

583
00:33:25,360 --> 00:33:28,640
those and celebrating those, it
really helps people believe that

584
00:33:28,640 --> 00:33:31,200
they can.
Well, and and that whole concept

585
00:33:31,480 --> 00:33:34,760
of you, you celebrate the
exemplar, right?

586
00:33:34,760 --> 00:33:37,800
It's like, OK, we've already got
somebody in our team that's

587
00:33:37,800 --> 00:33:41,120
doing this.
Let's make sure that's known and

588
00:33:41,120 --> 00:33:44,440
acknowledged, you know, keep
keep putting in front of folks.

589
00:33:44,640 --> 00:33:47,600
This is a whip.
I mean, this is where we want to

590
00:33:47,600 --> 00:33:53,920
go it and it should never be
corrective, right?

591
00:33:54,080 --> 00:33:56,160
It's like that.
It just doesn't work when you're

592
00:33:56,160 --> 00:33:59,240
trying to get a community to
embrace a best practice or a

593
00:33:59,240 --> 00:34:02,520
new, it has to be no, this is
how we build towards supporting

594
00:34:02,520 --> 00:34:05,080
kids better.
This is how we go to supporting

595
00:34:05,080 --> 00:34:07,440
each other better.
This it can't be.

596
00:34:07,520 --> 00:34:10,000
Now you got to do this because
this is what the office says we

597
00:34:10,000 --> 00:34:11,840
need to be doing.
It doesn't work.

598
00:34:11,840 --> 00:34:15,639
Doesn't motivate anybody, yeah.
And you know, you've done so

599
00:34:15,639 --> 00:34:18,400
much incredible work throughout
your career.

600
00:34:18,400 --> 00:34:21,000
You know, you've written the
book that you're we're going to

601
00:34:21,000 --> 00:34:24,920
share about in a little bit.
You have worked with countless

602
00:34:24,920 --> 00:34:28,440
schools both in the United
States and internationally.

603
00:34:28,440 --> 00:34:32,000
And I'm just curious right now,
Toby, is there anything that

604
00:34:32,000 --> 00:34:34,560
you're working on, a passion
project maybe that you'd like to

605
00:34:34,560 --> 00:34:36,639
share?
I I want to get back to writing

606
00:34:36,719 --> 00:34:40,159
again.
I, I had a flourish of a flurry

607
00:34:40,159 --> 00:34:44,719
of One good thing about pandemic
time was it it provided more

608
00:34:44,719 --> 00:34:49,480
time for writing and I, I'd like
to get back to the book came out

609
00:34:49,480 --> 00:34:53,639
in 21 and really, you know, I, I
finished it up while we were in

610
00:34:53,639 --> 00:34:56,760
the pandemic and, and even a
number of the things I really

611
00:34:56,760 --> 00:35:00,040
would love to update some kind
of a current passion as I'd love

612
00:35:00,040 --> 00:35:04,280
to find some time to go back and
do do an update on the book.

613
00:35:04,280 --> 00:35:09,520
I've, I've had numerous and then
this isn't about me necessarily,

614
00:35:09,520 --> 00:35:13,240
but I, I've been flattered.
I've had numerous invites to do

615
00:35:13,240 --> 00:35:17,160
additional articles for a number
of publications and I'm, I'd

616
00:35:17,160 --> 00:35:20,120
really like to get back to that
and and do that.

617
00:35:20,120 --> 00:35:25,840
It's just finding the time.
I've been so blessed by how the,

618
00:35:26,240 --> 00:35:29,680
the trusted framework, it's just
helped so many folks.

619
00:35:29,680 --> 00:35:34,840
And I've got so many stories now
that I can tell I'd like to

620
00:35:34,840 --> 00:35:39,320
implement those, you know, into
an updated edition of the book

621
00:35:39,320 --> 00:35:44,320
and actually been looking at a
series of smaller books that

622
00:35:44,320 --> 00:35:49,360
could be personalized to
applying the framework to, you

623
00:35:49,360 --> 00:35:53,000
know, specific levels of
education or just specific types

624
00:35:53,280 --> 00:35:59,520
of of schools and operations.
Another ongoing passion, though,

625
00:35:59,520 --> 00:36:02,560
is the work I'm doing,
especially with school leaders

626
00:36:02,560 --> 00:36:04,760
and distress and developing
areas.

627
00:36:04,840 --> 00:36:08,240
That's been something I've I've
been honored to be a part of for

628
00:36:08,240 --> 00:36:12,680
years and for confidentiality.
I won't mention their names, but

629
00:36:12,960 --> 00:36:15,720
or the schools.
But when you think about trying

630
00:36:15,720 --> 00:36:22,960
to operate a quality school in a
distressed area or think war

631
00:36:22,960 --> 00:36:27,720
zone thing, government
instability really, really

632
00:36:27,720 --> 00:36:30,720
challenging if you get on.
I love working with with schools

633
00:36:30,720 --> 00:36:34,200
here in the States as well.
But by comparison, we don't have

634
00:36:34,200 --> 00:36:38,160
any problems, you know, not not
the big, big, you know, but

635
00:36:38,160 --> 00:36:40,240
we're pretty confident school
will open today.

636
00:36:40,240 --> 00:36:42,200
We're pretty confident people
will be able to show up for

637
00:36:42,200 --> 00:36:43,640
work.
And but there are parts of the

638
00:36:43,640 --> 00:36:46,600
world where you don't know if
the lights are going to turn on.

639
00:36:46,680 --> 00:36:48,680
You don't know if you're going
to have power, You don't have

640
00:36:48,760 --> 00:36:51,400
roads are going to be open.
You don't know if you can get a

641
00:36:51,400 --> 00:36:56,080
full roster of faculty and staff
on campus that day just to meet

642
00:36:56,080 --> 00:36:59,000
the needs of the kids.
And when you're operating a

643
00:36:59,000 --> 00:37:02,040
school in those kind of
situations, really, really

644
00:37:02,040 --> 00:37:04,720
challenging.
And it's been an honor to, to

645
00:37:04,720 --> 00:37:07,400
walk alongside those folks.
I certainly don't have all the

646
00:37:07,400 --> 00:37:11,080
answers, but I, I think I've had
the opportunity.

647
00:37:11,080 --> 00:37:14,240
And because of the exposure with
so many schools, it's really a

648
00:37:14,240 --> 00:37:16,520
lot of the work is just helping
with the brainstorming of, you

649
00:37:16,520 --> 00:37:17,960
know, have we thought about
this?

650
00:37:17,960 --> 00:37:20,080
Could this work in that
scenario?

651
00:37:20,080 --> 00:37:23,200
Have you tried thinking
out-of-the-box over here?

652
00:37:23,200 --> 00:37:25,840
And that has been and continues
to be a passion of mine.

653
00:37:25,880 --> 00:37:29,200
Yeah, and none of us have all of
the answers, but working

654
00:37:29,200 --> 00:37:32,800
together is there's so much
power in that.

655
00:37:32,800 --> 00:37:36,000
There's so much to be grateful
for when we can come alongside

656
00:37:36,000 --> 00:37:39,720
one another and support one
another and and help one another

657
00:37:39,960 --> 00:37:44,520
to pay the better future for our
children, whether it's here or

658
00:37:44,520 --> 00:37:47,960
abroad.
And I love that you talk about

659
00:37:47,960 --> 00:37:50,960
your international work because
talk about mindset.

660
00:37:51,040 --> 00:37:54,120
You know, we think we have it
tough in the United States as

661
00:37:54,120 --> 00:37:56,120
school leaders, and it is hard
work.

662
00:37:56,120 --> 00:37:59,360
Don't get me wrong.
It is incredibly difficult work.

663
00:37:59,360 --> 00:38:04,160
And there were days that, you
know, I would sit at my desk and

664
00:38:04,160 --> 00:38:08,040
cry because I was so frustrated.
And I know I've worked with

665
00:38:08,040 --> 00:38:11,320
leaders through coaching.
They've been in the same spot.

666
00:38:11,560 --> 00:38:16,200
But I don't think we we think
about what other people have it

667
00:38:16,200 --> 00:38:19,120
like, especially abroad.
So I'm glad you brought that up.

668
00:38:19,120 --> 00:38:25,480
That mindset piece is very
powerful and we are very blessed

669
00:38:25,480 --> 00:38:27,040
in the United States.
Yeah, indeed.

670
00:38:27,320 --> 00:38:31,360
We are for sure.
So Toby, if you could, can you

671
00:38:31,360 --> 00:38:35,600
just give a little synopsis of
your book and where the

672
00:38:35,600 --> 00:38:37,360
listeners can go to find your
book?

673
00:38:37,360 --> 00:38:42,440
The work and the research came
down to really one major finding

674
00:38:42,800 --> 00:38:46,360
and that is this.
The number one indicator of

675
00:38:46,360 --> 00:38:48,960
successful schools is trusted
leadership.

676
00:38:49,000 --> 00:38:52,560
And it was interesting.
It didn't matter how we define

677
00:38:52,560 --> 00:38:55,560
success, that finding still held
true.

678
00:38:55,760 --> 00:38:58,960
So if you define school success
as student achievement levels,

679
00:38:59,200 --> 00:39:01,840
you look at the schools where
students are achieving to the

680
00:39:01,840 --> 00:39:04,920
highest level, you will also
find the highest levels of

681
00:39:04,920 --> 00:39:07,640
trusted leadership.
You look at faculty and staff

682
00:39:07,640 --> 00:39:12,360
retention as a mark of success.
Well, in the schools where they

683
00:39:12,360 --> 00:39:15,880
are retaining quality faculty
and staff, would you also have

684
00:39:15,960 --> 00:39:19,440
the most trusted leaders when
you look at volunteerism and

685
00:39:19,440 --> 00:39:21,400
community support?
And I could go on on.

686
00:39:21,400 --> 00:39:25,760
We did about 5 different looks
at school success and the

687
00:39:25,760 --> 00:39:28,880
finding held true.
Trusted leadership #1 indicator.

688
00:39:29,480 --> 00:39:32,560
Well then you have to look at,
well, how do you assess it?

689
00:39:32,680 --> 00:39:34,640
How do you know you're trusted,
right.

690
00:39:34,640 --> 00:39:38,280
So then we worked on developing
basically a research based

691
00:39:38,280 --> 00:39:41,720
assessment tool.
And 1st we had to define

692
00:39:41,720 --> 00:39:44,000
obviously what are the
components of trust.

693
00:39:44,000 --> 00:39:46,160
And that's where again, this
bridge illustration helps

694
00:39:46,360 --> 00:39:49,760
because we actually discovered
there are basically 6 components

695
00:39:49,760 --> 00:39:53,640
of trusted leadership that need
to be in place for trust to be

696
00:39:53,640 --> 00:39:56,280
there.
And that also LED them to being

697
00:39:56,280 --> 00:39:59,280
able to OK, then these are the
competencies and skill sets.

698
00:39:59,280 --> 00:40:02,520
And actually always give credit
to Bob Marzano and his team

699
00:40:02,520 --> 00:40:04,880
because I'm sitting on their
shoulders.

700
00:40:04,880 --> 00:40:07,960
Their team had identified 21
what they called

701
00:40:07,960 --> 00:40:11,160
responsibilities of school.
Leaders, excuse me, that were

702
00:40:11,160 --> 00:40:14,840
directly tied to student success
and then their studies, actually

703
00:40:14,840 --> 00:40:18,920
they did a meta analysis, but
there have been 2 multi, 2

704
00:40:20,000 --> 00:40:23,440
subsequently over the last two
decades that have reinforced

705
00:40:23,440 --> 00:40:26,600
what we already knew.
But then my work was connecting

706
00:40:26,600 --> 00:40:29,560
those companies and skill sets
to these six components of

707
00:40:29,560 --> 00:40:32,000
trust.
And so basically the trusted

708
00:40:32,000 --> 00:40:37,280
framework is it's an assessment
tool of where am I and my level

709
00:40:37,280 --> 00:40:41,280
of, of trusted leadership.
And then based on the results of

710
00:40:41,280 --> 00:40:45,480
that assessment, what are the
specific steps I can take to

711
00:40:45,480 --> 00:40:50,440
ensure those trust levels are
are developed And we've seen in

712
00:40:50,520 --> 00:40:54,720
just amazing school improvement
initiatives, all really as a

713
00:40:54,720 --> 00:40:58,560
result to ensuring got high
levels of trust, 70% of school

714
00:40:58,560 --> 00:41:02,520
improvement initiatives fail.
That stat has held for decades

715
00:41:02,520 --> 00:41:05,680
now and it's still true.
It's also true, by the way, in

716
00:41:05,680 --> 00:41:10,560
the corporate sector, 70% of new
businesses fail.

717
00:41:10,640 --> 00:41:13,240
But when you look in the school
side, what is it about those

718
00:41:13,240 --> 00:41:15,880
30%?
What are they doing right?

719
00:41:16,200 --> 00:41:19,040
It's all about implementation.
And when you look at what is it

720
00:41:19,040 --> 00:41:22,000
about the implementation?
It's all about leadership.

721
00:41:23,040 --> 00:41:29,400
So here's The thing is when you
spend time, energy, resources to

722
00:41:29,400 --> 00:41:32,520
ensure that there are high
levels of trust between the

723
00:41:32,520 --> 00:41:36,640
administration and the faculty
and staff, that's the key

724
00:41:36,640 --> 00:41:39,080
relationship.
Others also those answer

725
00:41:39,080 --> 00:41:41,920
relationships of students to
parents, community, but the key

726
00:41:41,920 --> 00:41:45,120
relationship is between the
school leaders and the

727
00:41:45,120 --> 00:41:48,320
employees.
When you ensure that that is

728
00:41:48,320 --> 00:41:51,720
solid, it's like magic.
All kinds of other wonderful

729
00:41:51,720 --> 00:41:56,040
things just start happening and
people get more engaged.

730
00:41:56,040 --> 00:41:59,680
You see an ovation.
Schools begin to blossom because

731
00:41:59,680 --> 00:42:03,960
teachers feel supported, they
feel trusted and empowered.

732
00:42:03,960 --> 00:42:08,840
So the number one issue the
schools must ensure is healthy

733
00:42:09,040 --> 00:42:12,040
is high levels of trust between
the administration and the

734
00:42:12,040 --> 00:42:13,840
teachers.
And if they're not spending time

735
00:42:13,840 --> 00:42:16,560
and energy there, it doesn't
matter what the initiative is

736
00:42:16,720 --> 00:42:18,000
long term, it's not going to
work.

737
00:42:18,040 --> 00:42:19,680
And we've seen that over and
over again.

738
00:42:19,680 --> 00:42:21,320
So that's what the book is
about.

739
00:42:21,320 --> 00:42:23,840
That's what the framework and
the training's about.

740
00:42:24,280 --> 00:42:28,720
They can find the book on Amazon
and they can find me on

741
00:42:28,720 --> 00:42:31,920
LinkedIn.
And if you just Google Doctor

742
00:42:31,920 --> 00:42:34,760
Toby Travis, trust Ed, you'll
you'll find it.

743
00:42:35,520 --> 00:42:39,920
So powerful, though, when you
think about the core of that, it

744
00:42:39,920 --> 00:42:42,680
goes.
It goes back to the importance

745
00:42:42,680 --> 00:42:46,680
of connection, the importance of
knowing that you matter, knowing

746
00:42:46,680 --> 00:42:49,520
that you're valued and being
connected.

747
00:42:49,520 --> 00:42:54,600
And in my work coaching leaders,
when I have experienced that as

748
00:42:54,600 --> 00:42:59,000
a school leader, when leaders
share with me their experiences,

749
00:42:59,000 --> 00:43:01,760
sometimes they'll say, you know,
I'm really blessed to lead the

750
00:43:01,760 --> 00:43:05,120
school that I'm leading.
And then when you really dig

751
00:43:05,120 --> 00:43:09,360
into that, the reason they feel
that way is because there is

752
00:43:09,360 --> 00:43:14,440
trust and there is connection
and there's mutual positive

753
00:43:14,440 --> 00:43:18,640
regard for both the leader and
the teacher or the staff member

754
00:43:18,640 --> 00:43:22,280
or whatever the role is.
So it's powerful work to be very

755
00:43:22,280 --> 00:43:24,440
powerful.
It is, I got a buddy of mine

756
00:43:24,440 --> 00:43:27,600
that is a family counselor and
does a lot of marriage

757
00:43:27,600 --> 00:43:30,960
counseling and it talks about
the, the key elements of love

758
00:43:30,960 --> 00:43:34,800
and respect, love and respect.
And I, I see that in our work as

759
00:43:34,800 --> 00:43:37,360
well, even though it's not a
romance, right?

760
00:43:37,360 --> 00:43:43,440
It's not, but you've got to have
authentic care and respect for

761
00:43:43,440 --> 00:43:46,040
those you're working with, even
when you disagree.

762
00:43:46,160 --> 00:43:49,720
In fact, even more important
when you disagree is there needs

763
00:43:49,720 --> 00:43:53,240
to be that authentic care.
It is part of what we see in the

764
00:43:53,240 --> 00:43:56,360
larger culture that has just
fallen apart in the United

765
00:43:56,360 --> 00:43:59,560
States and in other parts of the
world where people are

766
00:43:59,560 --> 00:44:01,520
villainizing those they disagree
with.

767
00:44:01,520 --> 00:44:04,160
And it's like that does not
going to get us to a better

768
00:44:04,160 --> 00:44:05,680
place.
It's not.

769
00:44:06,120 --> 00:44:10,400
And and when there is that
breakdown, in my experience,

770
00:44:10,640 --> 00:44:15,360
what fuels the breakdown is
fear, uncertainty, overwhelm,

771
00:44:15,520 --> 00:44:19,240
frustration.
But if you choose love over

772
00:44:19,240 --> 00:44:22,720
fear, love wins every time.
And you don't have to call it

773
00:44:22,720 --> 00:44:24,680
love it.
It could be care, or it could be

774
00:44:24,680 --> 00:44:27,680
compassion or whatever, but at
the core, it's love.

775
00:44:27,680 --> 00:44:32,920
It's love for each other.
And I'm definitely treating each

776
00:44:32,920 --> 00:44:36,920
other with the respect the
golden rule, treat others the

777
00:44:36,920 --> 00:44:39,360
way you want to be treated.
One of the first things we

778
00:44:39,360 --> 00:44:43,320
learned right growing up.
But it's it's very, very true

779
00:44:43,320 --> 00:44:47,720
and very important to always
remember that we need to love

780
00:44:47,720 --> 00:44:50,920
and respect the people that we
work with, the people that we

781
00:44:50,920 --> 00:44:53,280
work for, the people that work
for us.

782
00:44:53,280 --> 00:44:56,520
And we're going to get a lot
further in our mission and our

783
00:44:56,520 --> 00:45:00,960
impact is going to be greater.
So what is giving you hope and

784
00:45:00,960 --> 00:45:02,960
the world today?
Actually quite a number of

785
00:45:02,960 --> 00:45:07,200
things, but I think a specific
example to the, the context of

786
00:45:07,200 --> 00:45:11,800
what we're trying to encourage
folks in this the world of

787
00:45:11,800 --> 00:45:17,040
education is I am seeing the
Reformation of education today

788
00:45:17,040 --> 00:45:21,360
in so many ways that for decades
we dreamed about, we talked

789
00:45:21,360 --> 00:45:23,480
about it.
And again, I go back to the

790
00:45:23,520 --> 00:45:26,960
pandemic and some ways actually
really helped us a lot.

791
00:45:26,960 --> 00:45:30,640
I I know there were schools that
closed and there was lots of

792
00:45:30,640 --> 00:45:35,720
mistakes that happened, but it
shook up the game Mary to to we

793
00:45:35,720 --> 00:45:38,280
had to figure it out
differently.

794
00:45:38,280 --> 00:45:40,680
And excuse me.
And that has continued.

795
00:45:40,680 --> 00:45:45,280
And I am, I'm hopeful that I'm
encouraged daily, almost daily.

796
00:45:45,280 --> 00:45:51,120
I'm in communication with people
who are really being student

797
00:45:51,120 --> 00:45:55,440
centered in their thinking about
what should education really

798
00:45:55,440 --> 00:45:57,880
look like rather than system
centered.

799
00:45:58,320 --> 00:46:01,800
And you know, it's been said,
you know, we need to be

800
00:46:01,800 --> 00:46:06,360
designing educational platforms
and delivery, if you look at it

801
00:46:06,360 --> 00:46:09,560
that way for a student's future,
not our past.

802
00:46:09,600 --> 00:46:12,760
What I've resident even more
with us at understanding that

803
00:46:12,880 --> 00:46:16,440
the education is organic.
We're not producing widgets

804
00:46:16,440 --> 00:46:20,120
here, right?
But it has been systematized so

805
00:46:20,120 --> 00:46:23,880
much for the sake of management
and accountability over the

806
00:46:23,880 --> 00:46:27,160
years that we've forgotten that
this is this.

807
00:46:27,400 --> 00:46:30,160
In the Christian world, we'd
call it discipleship, right?

808
00:46:30,160 --> 00:46:32,520
In the Second World, we'd call
it apprenticeship, right?

809
00:46:32,520 --> 00:46:35,000
It's like this, and it's in its
best form.

810
00:46:35,280 --> 00:46:39,320
It's us pouring our lives into
these young people to help them

811
00:46:39,320 --> 00:46:42,240
so that they can pour their
lives into others.

812
00:46:42,240 --> 00:46:45,520
That's what education really
should be about, not about

813
00:46:45,720 --> 00:46:48,920
ticking a bunch of boxes.
About how many AP classes did

814
00:46:48,920 --> 00:46:52,400
you get and what's your, your
SAT score And even and I get a

815
00:46:52,400 --> 00:46:55,640
university trajectory is
important, but it's not all

816
00:46:55,640 --> 00:46:57,600
important, right?
You shouldn't just be college

817
00:46:57,600 --> 00:47:02,320
probably should be life prep And
and it gives me hope when I I

818
00:47:02,320 --> 00:47:06,800
see so many who have really got
that that vision in their minds

819
00:47:06,800 --> 00:47:10,040
and that understanding that we
don't you don't need to stick to

820
00:47:10,040 --> 00:47:13,080
this, you know, 100 plus year
old traditional system.

821
00:47:13,520 --> 00:47:17,480
There are ways that we can
approach supporting these kids

822
00:47:17,480 --> 00:47:21,000
for their future in relevant,
authentic ways.

823
00:47:21,320 --> 00:47:25,200
So when I have conversations
with schools that are entirely

824
00:47:25,200 --> 00:47:29,920
project based, right, or you see
schools that they're doing

825
00:47:29,960 --> 00:47:33,760
flexible models where kids are
online two days a week and in

826
00:47:33,760 --> 00:47:36,640
class three days a week,
there's, there's so many

827
00:47:36,640 --> 00:47:38,800
examples we can look at, but
that gives me hope.

828
00:47:39,000 --> 00:47:43,160
It's like, OK, we know the old
system is probably the worst

829
00:47:43,160 --> 00:47:48,360
form of quality education and
we're finally ready to shake the

830
00:47:48,360 --> 00:47:50,480
system off.
Let's retool.

831
00:47:50,480 --> 00:47:54,840
Let's rethink based on what's
really best for kids and for

832
00:47:54,840 --> 00:47:59,000
their future, rather than what's
convenient for us to measure and

833
00:47:59,000 --> 00:48:01,120
to operate.
Yeah, absolutely.

834
00:48:01,680 --> 00:48:05,160
And it it goes back to what we
were talking about before, you

835
00:48:05,160 --> 00:48:10,160
know, love that relationship,
the importance of pouring in to

836
00:48:10,160 --> 00:48:12,880
the people that we are serving
and working with.

837
00:48:12,880 --> 00:48:15,480
And it's a beautiful thing when
it's done right.

838
00:48:15,520 --> 00:48:19,040
And that is something to be very
hopeful for.

839
00:48:19,240 --> 00:48:22,080
If you're listening to this
podcast today, I just want to

840
00:48:22,080 --> 00:48:26,800
encourage you to go over to from
Amazon and check out Doctor Toby

841
00:48:26,800 --> 00:48:32,040
Travis's book, Trust Ed.
He has built a framework that is

842
00:48:32,040 --> 00:48:36,800
powerful for empowering leaders.
Toby, I am grateful that you

843
00:48:36,800 --> 00:48:39,760
came on the show today.
So thank you for your time and

844
00:48:39,760 --> 00:48:41,840
for your wisdom and your
insight.

845
00:48:41,920 --> 00:48:43,680
I look forward to staying
connected with you.

846
00:48:43,680 --> 00:48:47,040
My pleasure, Brett, my pleasure,
Brandy, and and thank you for

847
00:48:47,040 --> 00:48:50,520
the work you're doing.
I, I love the, the Hope

848
00:48:50,600 --> 00:48:54,520
framework as well.
I mean that it is critical that

849
00:48:54,760 --> 00:48:58,440
we live with vision and
encouragement and gratitude.

850
00:48:58,480 --> 00:49:02,240
So no, thank you very, very much
for making me aware of the work

851
00:49:02,240 --> 00:49:04,960
that you're doing.
And if there's ever anything I

852
00:49:04,960 --> 00:49:08,640
could do to help and encourage,
I'm very, very honored to do so.

853
00:49:08,760 --> 00:49:12,560
Thank you.
That's a wrap for today's

854
00:49:12,560 --> 00:49:16,920
episode of Leave with Hope.
Remember, the world needs your

855
00:49:16,920 --> 00:49:19,120
leadership and change starts
with you.

856
00:49:19,320 --> 00:49:23,000
Fuel your life with hope,
embrace your purpose, and shine

857
00:49:23,000 --> 00:49:26,200
your light for others.
If this episode inspired you,

858
00:49:26,320 --> 00:49:30,040
I'd be so grateful if you could
take a moment to give us a five

859
00:49:30,040 --> 00:49:34,560
star rating and share it.
Every review helps spread hope

860
00:49:34,920 --> 00:49:37,800
and empowers more leaders to
rise.

861
00:49:37,880 --> 00:49:41,800
Thanks for listening and until
next time, keep leading with

862
00:49:41,800 --> 00:49:42,120
hope.