Episode 296: Beyond Compliance - Building Classrooms Where Students Want to Engage

Darrin Peppard (00:01)

What if one of the biggest challenges in our classrooms isn't student behavior? What if it isn't motivation?

What if the real question is whether we've created an environment students actually want to engage in? Welcome into episode 296 of the Leaning Into Leadership Podcast. Today on the show, I am joined by Kendall Terry, and this conversation took us into some spaces that I think are incredibly important for school leaders right now. Kendall and I talk about brain-based learning, the difference between teaching and learning.

And why something as simple as greeting a student when they walk through the classroom door can have a meaningful impact. But we also dig into a framework that Kendall calls brace, belonging, relevance, agency, challenge, and engaged response. And there's a distinction in this conversation that I really want you thinking about as you listen today.

Are the students in your classrooms engaged or are they simply compliant? Because those are absolutely not the same thing. We're also going to get into habits and why the goals we write at the beginning of the year aren't nearly as important as the small things we're willing to do consistently on a random Tuesday afternoon. Now, before we jump into this awesome conversation with Kendall, I want to take a moment to thank our sponsor, Hey Tutor.

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look at Heytutor and what they can provide for your schools. Go to heytutor.com or even better, hit the link down in the show notes. That will let them know you heard about them here on the Leaning Into Leadership Podcast. Alright my friends, let's get into episode 296 and my conversation with Kendall Terry. I will see you on the other side.

Darrin Peppard (00:00)

All right, my friends. Welcome into the show. Excited to welcome Kendall Terry into the studio today. Kendall, thanks so much for joining me on Leaning Into Leadership.

Kendall Terry (00:10)

it's great to be here. I appreciate the opportunity to have this conversation.

Darrin Peppard (00:14)

Yeah, definitely. I'm I've been looking forward to it since the last time that you and I connected and and had some time together. So before we dive into the stuff we want to talk about today, maybe spend a couple minutes and orient our listeners to who Kendall Terry is.

Kendall Terry (00:31)

question. you know, I I'm a educator at heart that has found myself in administration and looking at education differently. You know, what there's a different lens whenever you are in the classroom and the amazing things you can come up with and create and then to be on the kind of other side of that in an administrative role and and working with teachers to try to get everybody, you know, moving and growing and and learning. And I've learned that I have a lot of

excitement in that and thinking about school in that kind of higher level and then also remembering what it's like to be in a classroom and and what it's like to you know to have that administrator conversation and that sort of thing and so trying to manage those and keep that all in mind as you're going through life. But just I you know I I love education. I have an amazing wife and three kids and and leaning into one in college, two in high school and

all of the new things that come with that that combination. And so just

Darrin Peppard (01:25)

Yeah.

Kendall Terry (01:26)

you know, try trying to grow as a as a leader in that and and really try to impact education in a positive way.

Darrin Peppard (01:33)

Yeah, absolutely. And you know, when when you and I talked the last time, I mean there were so many great things that that you talked about and and that I'm excited to get to. You know, we're gonna talk about habits of leadership, we're gonna talk about some brace brain based learning and and some of those types of things. But maybe let's let's give just a little bit of background like related to the site where you are now, because unlike

most educational settings, this is pretty much a ground up type of type of endeavor. So if if

Kendall Terry (02:03)

Yeah.

Darrin Peppard (02:03)

you don't mind, spend a little time talk about that.

Kendall Terry (02:05)

You know, it was about thirteen years ago whenever I was approached at coming on board at Clayton Bradley Academy. And and at the time they Clayton Bradley did not have a high school even. That's how new it was. It had been open for about a half a year at that moment. It was just elementary. And I originally just kind of, you know, I was like, I'm a high school person. and so I'm not interested in essence. And and they came back to me and was like, No, no, no, we're building a high school.

And so we want people on board right now that can help us as we make those transitions and and decisions and all of that and and education that so many times we just walk into some kind of system. We walk into some kind of of thing that's already there that that we either love or we're trying to change or whatever may be going on. And so to get that opportunity, it was like, well, this is now a a something I'm interested in. Now you've caught my attention. And so to be able to sit down at a table

where it's already being talked about of we want to learn with what brain research says helps students learn the best. We want to look at at a system that values mastery over a you have to learn it by next Tuesday or you just you get a bad grade. And so being able to be at the table just in those conversations early on, just to say, well how does this look in science, which was I was brought into the table because of science

But how does this also look with the English person that's sitting there? How does this look with the math person setting there as we continue to grow with, you know, more humanities folks and and history and English teachers and then more math teachers came to the table, more science teachers come to the table. And then you get these other people that that represent disciplines and ideas and careers to say, okay, we understand how the brain learns now, like let's continue to lean into that. And how does this now work?

cross-curricularly, how does this work interdisciplinary? How does this work both vertically and horizontally in a school? And so to be part of a a school that recognizes kids learn differently and they're going to continue to learn differently. So we're not stuck in a model that says this model is 30 years old and we're just going to plow through with this model. It's constantly looking at what does the latest research say that matters to how kids learn and how can we apply that in the classroom.

To be given that opportunity and to live in that space, I there's times that I forget how awesome that is and you think this is just normal. And then you go out and you talk to other schools or you talk to people in different settings and you realize that is not the way a lot of people experience education. And so I am so grateful and humbled just to be a part of it.

Darrin Peppard (04:39)

So I I'm really glad that you that you went there because there there were some things that we talked about when when we met before that I want to make sure we get to here. And kind of the way that you discussed that, even just right there, differentiates itself from how many schools and districts lay out their professional development model.

in in many cases it's the you know initiative of the year you know the the the flavor of the month almost type of type of a model but i know with with your school and you've been an integral part of this it's really i I think the phrasing that you used for it was learning centered school model of instruction and really digging into that

certainly has has made some incredible impact in your school, but let's maybe dig a little bit into that learning-centered framework and and share maybe kind of how that came about, but then also what you guys have done to really implement that to drive instructional change.

Kendall Terry (05:36)

Yeah. So you know, the the the current model, learning centered schools model, has been called a lot of different things. And I think that's one of the unique things of saying when you're looking at brain research and constantly saying, as kids have changed, how does this evolve? What stays the same, what changes? And we were rewriting a book called Exceeding Expectations. It's now called Exceeding Expectations Two. And

I was able to sit at the table with the people that had written the first book. And we were as a group of authors now kind of coming together to figure this out and how does this actually look now as opposed to how it looked 20 years or 30 years or 40 years ago. When you're in a system that looks at brain research, when you're in a system that looks at how do the kids that we are having right now going to be able to be successful in a future that we can't even describe.

How does that need to look? Because it it might look similar to something that happened twenty, thirty years ago. It might look very different. And we have to be okay living in a space where it does at times look different. And that doesn't mean it's wrong. It means we're trying to figure out how can we impact the children that we have in our school today in the best way. And so the learning center school model is what

Part of came out of that conversation is it it changed names again. so before that it was at one point integrated thematic instruction, then it was highly effective teaching. And as we were doing this rewrite, it it became clear that what we were really talking about is focusing on student learning. And so we're not trying to make, yes, I think if you do this model, you as a teacher, I think becomes a better teacher. But the goal is not on the teacher.

That's not the focus. The focus is on the student and what the student is learning, what the student is doing. And that's what research has shown. Whenever we do that, students learn at a higher rate and they remember at a better rate. And they're not they, you know, they get towards actually mastering content and not just memory that is short term, that whenever they do something on a test, then they forget it and they move on. And so that's really what this model is about, is the learner is the focus.

And then there's things as for me as a teacher that I can do to make that learning increase and there's things that I can do to make that learning decrease. And so I should be wanting to make the learning increase and and we believe that that where we're at right now is is pretty cool and in the future it's probably gonna evolve again.

Darrin Peppard (08:06)

So as as you've worked through this model and not not only from the perspective of of being the author of of this of this book, but also in terms of leading in the space you're in.

People are are listening to this and they're thinking, yeah, the the brain research stuff is really, really good and really important. But what does that look like for a teacher in a classroom? You and I were both science teachers. So so look let's talk about it from a science teacher perspective first. It's something I didn't know about you. I I was also a middle school and then high school science teacher. So so we've we've got some parallels here, Kindle. So maybe let's let's start there. What might that look like in a science classroom that's different from a traditional?

science classroom.

Kendall Terry (08:50)

Yeah, I think number one, I respect and honor the the folks that are that are teaching in that classroom. They're professionals. And I think in today's society that that gets lost somehow. The adults that are in there are professionals and they're they understand their content and they they understand their craft. But if you're gonna really take a look and say, let's let's set aside the way that I was taught, because the way I was taught

I was probably successful at it. In fact, most teachers were probably successful in school. That's why they're teaching in school. or they had a really bad experience and they vowed to never, you know, set a precedent to never have that. Right.

Darrin Peppard (09:26)

Right. Exactly. Yeah.

Kendall Terry (09:28)

so when I look back at what made me successful, sometimes as a teacher, then I can just go, well, I need to teach everybody that way, and that'll make them successful too, if they just do what I'm telling them to do. And in reality, the kids that we're interacting with today.

are not the same. They have different experiences. You know, you and I probably grew up in a similar kind of setting where you could be gone on a bicycle for hours and nobody cared whether you anybody knew where you were at the time. And you know, maybe you knew your mom's whistle from, you know, a distance or whatever. I grew up in southern West Virginia. So we were in mountains and sometimes a couple mountain mountains over from where we were supposed to be and you could still hear that mom whistle, you know, and you knew I'd better get back home.

Darrin Peppard (10:07)

Ha ha.

Kendall Terry (10:09)

but

That was a saying we grew up kids today that you're getting, I mean, when you look at elementary students, you're talking about kids that maybe have not really been to grocery stores. And you go, how many times did your mom drag you to a grocery store? You didn't really want to be there, but you went along you maybe wanted a a treat at the end of it. But when you went to that grocery store, you were learning how to interact with with strangers. You were learning patterns and that the store was set up in certain ways and you you learned like these are dairy items and these are vegetable items and

And for the brain, you're learning a lot about colors and and shapes and patterns when you're in that setting. We've got kids coming to our schools now that because of technology and because of, you know, you can get on the app and get all the food you want and you show up, they put it all your car, they're not maybe interacting in that. And I know that sounds strange because for most of us we go, surely not. But when you talk to parents and you talk to and and you talk to the kids about what they've experienced, it's different. And so for me in the classroom then in the science classroom,

I've got kids coming into my classroom that I loved having that conversation with that that they hated science because typically they hated science because they had a bad experience somewhere, or they really weren't good at memorizing, and science has a lot of stuff that you just gotta learn sometimes. It it's hard to figure out. So for me, I took that as a challenge of like, how can I make this lesson so interactive that that they can't help but like science by the time we're done? I didn't get there with everybody.

But for this model of instruction, what it does is say, okay, let's let's look at from the time a kid enters our classroom, everything is intentional. So simple things like I'm gonna welcome every kid into my classroom. And you go, I mean, okay, but sometimes you're busy and some but what brain research says is whenever you walk into that classroom, if there's a person welcoming you into the classroom, then your brain is automatically

Sending those signals of this is a safe place. Just from that welcome. And you go, really that important? It it really is. And then doing some simple things like making sure we have an agenda posted. Not an agenda that's in like all this technical language, but an agenda that actually says, this is what we're gonna do today, guys. Because what what does a kid ask when they come in the classroom? are we learning anything today? Anything important

Darrin Peppard (12:24)

Yeah. Exactly.

Kendall Terry (12:26)

gonna happen today? And so they're actually saying in real they don't know to ask it this way, but what they're saying is

Am I going to be called out for something that I'm not ready to answer? Because if so, I need to put up some defense mechanisms to keep that from happening. And so having just a simple agenda to say, here's what we're going to do today, guys. What we're going to do is important. Here's why, but here's what we're going to do today. And they can help to like relax a little bit to say, okay, I was afraid we were going to have a quiz. There's not a quiz on the agenda, so I can relax because I there's no quiz.

So some of that, but then it's that communication side of let's make this a partnership where we can work together. It's not about me saying I'm the smartest person in the room and I need to extol all of this knowledge to you, which is how a lot of us grow up in classrooms. And so that's not where we're at. We're in a setting where we say, let's partner together. Here's what we're gonna do. We're gonna be as interactive as we can be, we're gonna be as project and problem-based as we can be, to to really learn some of this stuff, whether that's

me taking a model that you can't see and making it visible for you using whatever creative things we can use today, but helping you touch it, feel it, smell it, taste it if it's safe. and using that as instead of it saying, well, we got to cover chapter two today. Everybody get out your pencils. We're gonna take some notes and you're gonna have to memorize all this stuff and then regurgitate it back on a test somewhere. It's how can we really

dig into this. And then I think one of the most important questions you got to ask, and you have to answer this as a teacher. Why does this student need to know this? And if you can't answer that, then understand that you're going to have a hard time teaching it. And so sometimes I had to go out in the world and find out like why do my kids need to know this scientific concept right here? Because sometimes even a science teacher I didn't know. And you got to go find it so that then the kid knows this is why this is important. And just saying we're going to have it on a test.

That ain't gonna work. They don't care about that. It's why does somebody as an adult do this or need to know this? And if we can help answer that question, then we can help their brain move on to this is actually something really important and I want to know about it.

Darrin Peppard (14:31)

I think that's really powerful and and a lot of what I took away from what you said there, and and I smiled several times because that's in in many ways that's how that's how I wanted to be as as the classroom teacher as well. And felt like in science that was something that maybe

Maybe we just had a natural opportunity to to lean into some of those those different spaces, but but not always. And sometimes you did have to be a little more creative. but what what I'm really taking away from listening to you talk about that model and and how that would look in a classroom is really active engagement. I'm I'm

Kendall Terry (15:03)

Mm-hmm.

Darrin Peppard (15:04)

hearing you talk about not just engagement from a student, but true engagement from a teacher. And I I know that that's an area where where you

You have again another framework, which, you know, when when you're putting together this type of a system, you've got to have really good frameworks in place. And so let's maybe go a little bit further with with engagement. I think it's the brace framework that that

Kendall Terry (15:26)

Yeah.

Darrin Peppard (15:27)

you've been working with.

Kendall Terry (15:28)

Yeah, so you know, one of the big struggles is this engagement idea. Coming out of COVID, I mean, what a lot of kids learned in COVID is that a lot of school could be done at a computer with a worksheet. Yeah, and and so coming out of that, it's like the real world all of a sudden didn't connect with what the teacher was asking me to do in the classroom. And so as we've kind of looked into this and researched this and and tried to figure out what makes it

kid truly want to engage and a staff member want to engage in in this profession. And so we came up with this at it you know, educators, we love acronyms, right? So that's where we are.

Darrin Peppard (16:05)

We're pretty good at

Kendall Terry (16:07)

That's where brace comes in to say if we're going to do something that that increases engagement in the classroom, we've got to set this upright. We've got to give it a brace. And the first of that being belonging, so much of our world

wants to polarize and divide. And so when a kid walks into a classroom, it's immediately, what side are you on? Are you on this political side or not? Are you on this religious side? Are you on this whatever, you know, social media trend is going on right now? Like what what side are you on? And then based on how you answer that question, you may or may not belong. And that's a sad reality that we've got kids then studying in a classroom that they don't feel like they belong. And if they don't feel like they belong, then why are they going to care about learning?

And so we first have to answer that, that kids have to feel like they belong. And the teachers have to feel like they belong. I think we've done the same thing in education with teachers. We've we've moved education to so impersonable with scripts and and digital learning and stuff that that we've in essence told many of our teachers that they don't really belong. And so we've got to get that answered for both the teacher and the student, that they belong. They're valued, their voice has value.

We want every voice at that table to feel like they can express themselves in real and honest and transparent ways and to be still accepted when it's all done. Then you move into relevance. So how how am what am I learning and why does it matter? I mean that's that's a pretty simple one that as an educator you should be able to answer. then it's agency. Agency is one that everybody in education, that's not a new word, right? Agency is one that everybody in education talks about.

And it's helping our students really find that like, I deserve to be here. I have I you know, I I have this important part to add to the class. And same for the teacher. They and they they have that autonomy, they have that ability to to create and try and fail and create again. The C is challenge, and I think this is one that that many times we forget in education, the challenge is not let me make a hard test for you.

It's let me create something that is fun to explore, but has appropriate levels of challenge so that I can still enjoy it. I can enjoy it, I can be I can I can be grown a little bit, I can be stretched, and the teacher is providing the the right scaffolding and support for me. And then the final one is an engaged response, not just a response, but an engaged response. An engaged response is I'm gonna continue in this content until I can master it. Not

We're gonna start this today. In two weeks, we're gonna have a quiz. You either get it right or you don't get it right. And then we move on. And and for a lot of kids then they l they don't get it the first go round and they go, Well, I'm no good at science. I'm no good at math and they give up in essence. They're they'll go through the routine because they have to, but they give up on the content.

And so we need to make an environment where it's an engaged response. There's a give and take. I'm gonna give you a response. You're gonna tell me whether that's the right response or not. And then I get a chance to revisit it and figure it out again. And I'm gonna keep going back on this until I get it because it matters. And that's that's the essence of what the brace framework is.

Darrin Peppard (19:20)

No, I think it makes a lot of sense and it's the type of thing that that certainly again, because it's an acronym and we're so good at those and we we do truly love them, I I think it does give

some tangible pieces there that that you can lean into and and really understand. And you know, I would think even from the school leader perspective, leaning into that type of that type of a framework when I'm in a classroom and I'm observing, maybe I'm just stopping by, maybe I'm doing walkthrough instructional rounds, whatever, whatever language you may use for for that particular type of work, this gives me some things that are some

real clear look fors that I can

Kendall Terry (20:00)

Mm-hmm.

Darrin Peppard (20:01)

give quality feedback on to a teacher so that we continue to develop habits in our classroom that are specific to these individual things. I mean it's it's one thing to to say that students are responding. A lot of schools that I work with a big piece and I'm I'm gonna really take a lot away from the engaged response

Piece, but a lot of student discourse is what I hear. We want more student discourse, we want more student discourse, and I agree with that. But to take it that one step further into an engaged response, or to take it into agency where the student and the teacher have some genuine autonomy on the work that they're doing and the direction that they're going, I would think, again, from the school admin.

administrator perspective and also I think from the teacher perspective to have some tangible this is the clear look for this is the clear go-to this is where we're trying to trying to ultimately get to I think just has got to help move everyone along and again getting them to really embrace those habits in their classroom

There should be a question there. There isn't. I I'm just gonna let you kind of run with with what I just talked about there.

Kendall Terry (21:16)

Yeah.

So as you were just mentioning, like as an administrator, some of these words really when you look into the definitions and dig apart what they mean, it starts to really change some of the ways we look, maybe at at the classroom, at even kids showing up in the mornings at at school, whatever may be the case. And so I've really been working on a kind of check checklist, that's not the right word for it, but

On my website, that Terry Leadership Group website, we've actually developed this whole page just on Brace and we're piloting some things. It's in an early phase right now because this is not something that we had thought about when we were first working with some of these terms and and ideas. And it's it's a thing for an administrator to use to say, as you go around your school, what are you noticing? What are you picking up on in these categories? And then as you

work through it and fill it out, there's some back and forth right that that gets to happen, some conversation that gets to happen from that and just says, hey, you know, maybe it's we're look maybe we've spent too much time looking at compliance and our kids just doing what we're telling them to do and not as much as much of engaged response. Because sometimes as a teacher, I just want compliance. I just want them to come in and sit down and do what I'm wanting them to do. Well to get compliance, I think you can get there, but

you can get there in in a couple of different r ways. And one of the ways is really just the kids are going to show up and do what you ask to do because they don't want to get in trouble and then they move on. Or you can really engage them in ways that causes their brain to go, Man, I I don't know what it is about Mr. Terry's class or or Mr. Peppard's class that that I really like being in there and it it's I i there's some struggle here, but it's it's a fun struggle and we get to work through this and we get to learn something different. You can get kids there, I think.

But I think it takes you intentionally doing some things different.

Darrin Peppard (23:09)

Yeah. And I I think that

takes us right to where I want to go. Maybe the the last topic we'll have time to get to before before we start to wrap up. And that is what you referred to as those smart habits in the classroom.

Kendall Terry (23:19)

Mm-hmm.

Darrin Peppard (23:20)

I think that's such an important element. And man, everything you said there was just just really, really strong. Let's let's lean into the habits and how we what what are some of the habits we're looking for and how do we develop those habits both

the teacher and the student.

Kendall Terry (23:37)

Yeah,

so smart it's funny, when we talk about this, the smart habits was what started getting developed first and that book will be coming out here soon, hopefully by the end of this calendar year. I've got a big deadline coming up on it, so hopefully we'll get past that. But it's looking at many times in education we set goals. We love to set goals and and in education we've really embraced a lot of spaces have embraced smart goals, right?

we write them, we write them at the district level, we write them at the school level, we write them at the classroom level, and and then for many of us that gives us a destination, but what does that look like on a Tuesday afternoon? and for a lot of teachers, it's kinda like, I'm not thinking about that goal on Tuesday afternoon. You know, we just got back from a fire drill and the kids are crazy and and I'm not thinking about how we're increasing our ACT science test scores. I've been in that environment, right? And so

What we wanna do is we wanna have those goals, but then we wanna look at actually how do we accomplish that and we accomplish those goals actually through habits. It's what things can I do in my classroom. Well, when you break that apart, I don't think that's surprising to people. People would go, Of course, we need to make habits. But when we break that apart of how do you actually create real habits that can stick, there's some strategies that you can use. And so that's what the the book really focuses on are those strategies. So it's things like

How small can I create this so that it's impossible for me not to do it? One of the classic examples of that is if you want to floss, most dentists would say everybody needs to floss better. but for a lot of people, it's like I don't have time to floss. And it's well, what if you said I'll floss one tooth, one tooth every day? I'm gonna floss one tooth. Well, that's a pretty easy habit. That's a pretty easy thing to say, right? I'm gonna floss one tooth. It doesn't take much time, it doesn't take much energy, I'm gonna floss one tooth.

Well, if you can actually set that up and start doing it, what you're gonna find is you're gonna floss more than one tooth, but it's in your brain you feel like I can accomplish that, so you're more likely to do it. So what does it look like in your classroom? Maybe it is simply just like the belonging of I'm going to welcome every kid to my classroom with their name when they come to class. That's a pretty low bar to say I'm gonna I'm just gonna welcome every kid to my class. we should all be able to accomplish that. So how can we set a small habit and then

look at what we crawl what we do with if-then planning. So if it's the beginning of class, then I'm going to welcome every student that walks into my classroom with their name. Now I've got a simple thing to do that could increase belonging and it will. The studies have shown that, but I'm gonna I'm gonna do this to increase belonging in my classroom. And so the smart habits are the little things that we can do to say, I'm gonna make this decision now. It's almost going to be impossible for me not to get there. And

I think this will to have a positive change in education. And the big thing about smart habits is that they should be they should be able to evolve. They should be able to change. You're not locked into something saying, I've got to do it this way. If you start doing it and it needs to change, then change it. It needs to be able to be modified so that that you can have success with it.

Darrin Peppard (26:39)

I love that. I think that's really, really important too. And I appreciate that last little bit there too. That, you know, just just because you've, you know, you've said this is what I'm going to do, there's no reason not to be able to evolve and continue to change. And and I mean, overall, I mean that's that's learning. And that's just modeling that learning as well. man, Kendall, our time has just absolutely flown by us. It's such a great conversation. So I'm at that point in the show where I'm gonna ask you the same question I ask everybody. this is the Leaning Into Leadership Podcast.

So Kendall, how are you leaning into leadership right now?

Kendall Terry (27:10)

You know, I found myself in a time of listening and I'm really working on more of it. And that's tough for me. I I told you before we started recording, I'm a talker and and you've obviously seen that I could go on for a lot longer. I've tried to watch your timeline here and and stick to it. but I have found myself in spaces where it's like I need to lean in more to listening and understanding, listening with the intent of understanding, and not just listening and waiting for my chance to talk and say, well

That's great that you feel that way, but let me tell you how I feel. I want to listen and understand more. I want staff and students to really grab that belonging idea of we are so much better when we're all together. And the world that we live in just wants, I feel like, to separate us and tear us apart so much. And it's doing a pretty good job at that.

And so we need to figure out a way to lean into each other and I think you start with actually listening to understand someone's perspective, their life, their situation, and learn from them whenever you get to listen.

Darrin Peppard (28:10)

Man, that is powerful stuff right there. listen to understand, listen to learn, not just listen to respond. Super, super powerful stuff. Kendall, people are gonna want to follow you, get in touch with you. Obviously, you've got you've got the books coming, all of those kinds of things. What are the best ways that people can lean in and get connected to Kendall Terry?

Kendall Terry (28:31)

Yeah. The Terry Leadership Group is probably the easiest way. And I've got that on Instagram. I've got it on Facebook. I've got it on LinkedIn. and then the website, Terry Leadership Group dot com. There's ways on there to connect with me. There's ways on there. If you want to have a conversation, there's ways to get on my calendar to do that. if you want to check out the brace framework stuff, there's a whole page on that that can help walk you through that, dig in a little bit more to that and

And it actually opens the door for us to have a conversation. And so it's a great way to connect and find a time on on our calendars to line up in education. There's not a whole lot of those opportunities at times. So I encourage you to do it that way and and let's let's connect and and make education better as a whole.

Darrin Peppard (29:14)

Excellent stuff. I really appreciate that. Thanks so much for joining me here on the Leaning into Leadership Podcast.

Alright, fantastic conversation with Kendall Terry. Certainly appreciate him joining me here on the Leaning Into Leadership Podcast.

Get down in the show notes, hit the links there, get connected with Kindle.

And now it's time for a pep talk. Earlier this week, I shared five positions for leaders that we move in and out of on a regular basis. The five, the strategic leader, the instructional leader, the operational leader, the symbolic leader, and the inspirational leader are all roles that, as school and district leaders, you occupy at any given time.

Here's the thing. The challenge about those five positions is not getting great at all of them. It's developing an awareness to recognize which position your school needs you to lead from at any given moment. There may be a morning when an unexpected staffing issue requires you to lead operational. An hour later, you're in a classroom where a teacher needs you to really be that instructional leader.

At lunch, you intentionally sit with a group of students because your presence sends a message. And suddenly you're leading symbolically. Maybe in the afternoon, your leadership team needs you to move above the problems of the day and think strategically about where you are headed. And before everybody leaves, a discouraged staff member walks into your office and just needs someone to reconnect with them and help them get back in touch with their purpose and why they do the work they do.

And that can be any normal day. Now here's the challenge for you, because this is where it can get difficult. All five of those positions may not feel natural to each and every one of us, but we do have areas where we can get naturally pulled into the things we feel very good about.

Be willing to take the time, step up on the balcony, and look at yourself in each of those five different positions. Where are the areas that you feel like you need to grow just a little bit more? Maybe some areas that you need to be just a little more intentional stepping into those. That's truly, truly the challenge, folks. It's understanding which of those roles my school needs from me in any given moment.

Hey, if I can help, reach out and let me know. I'm happy to be that ear, I'm happy to be that voice and be that person who can share that conversation with you. Thanks as always for joining me here on the Leaning Into Leadership Podcast. Please rate, review, subscribe, share this podcast with anyone else who might enjoy leaning into leadership. Get out there, have a rote to awesome week.