Episode 293: The Human Side of Leadership with Stacy Nation

Darrin Peppard (00:00)

Alright, my friends, welcome back into the Leaning Into Leadership Podcast. This is episode 293. Now, what if one of the most important things you could do as a leader had nothing to do with curriculum or schedules or strategic plans or even test scores? What if it started with understanding what is happening inside the people that you lead?

Today's guest, Stacey Nation, said something during our conversation that really struck me. As leaders, we expect people to think critically, make good decisions, and respond reasonably. But when someone is emotionally activated, their brain may not be operating from that place at all. And that has enormous implications for how we lead. Today's conversation is about trauma.

But it's also about relationships. It's about emotional regulation. It's about neuroscience. And maybe most importantly, it's about creating the conditions where the people we lead can actually do their best work. Stacy is a licensed clinical social worker who has spent more than 20 years working with children, families, educators, and military members. She brings an incredibly practical perspective to this conversation.

And I think that there are some things here that could immediately change the way you interact with both adults and with your students. Including why Stacy says leaders should be very careful about asking one particular question. Why? And we're gonna get into all of that here in just a minute. But before we do, I want to take a moment and thank the sponsor of today's episode, Hey Tutor. You know.

Here on the podcast, we talk a lot about creating the right conditions for people to be successful. For students, sometimes one of those conditions is simply having access to more time, more attention, and more individualized support. That is where Hey Tutor comes in. Hey Tutor partners with schools and school districts to provide high impact tutoring in literacy and in math, connecting students with consistent

Caring tutors who can provide the targeted support that they need. And with Hey Tutor earning the National Student Support Accelerators Tutoring Program Design Badge, districts can feel confident that the work is grounded in research-backed practices for effective tutoring. Because closing learning gaps isn't just about asking teachers to do more. It's about building systems of support around them and around their students.

If your district is looking for a tutoring partner that can help you expand that support, I highly recommend you check out Hey Tutor. Hit the show notes link. That'll let them know. You heard about them here on the Leaning Into Leadership podcast. And with that, let's lean into leadership with Stacy Nation.

Darrin Peppard (00:00)

All right, everybody, welcome back into the show. Joining me in studio today, Stacy Nation. Stacy, thanks so much for joining me on the show.

Stacy Nation (00:08)

Yeah, you got thanks for having me. I'm so excited to chat with you today.

Darrin Peppard (00:12)

Yeah, absolutely. And and I I'm excited about this conversation too. And you know, we were just talking before we hit the record button that this is a conversation that has been a long time coming. been connected. We've, you know, I mean, you contributed to the book that I co-authored with Katie Kinder. I mean, there's, you know, lots of mutual friends, including John Conan John Conan as one simple example. but

Finally, you and I get to sit down and have a conversation.

Stacy Nation (00:36)

Finally.

Darrin Peppard (00:36)

So super excited to have you here on the show. before we jump in, let's do this. Just really quick, kind of set the groundwork, let everybody know a little bit about you and the work that you do.

Stacy Nation (00:48)

So I'm Stacy Nation. I am a licensed clinical social worker. I've been working with children and families and educators for well over 20 years. really from the trauma informed lens, which, you know, we've been doing this for a long time. So we're really in the trauma restorative lens. and part-time in my life, I'm in the military, all of that plays in. I'm a mom, I'm a divorcee, I'm remarried, I have teenagers, you know, the whole nine years. There's a lot of things and layers in it.

I like to tell people I'm a human, right? I do human things and I work with humans.

Darrin Peppard (01:20)

There you go. I love that. I I want I want to chase something that you just said that probably a lot of our listeners caught and they're like, wait a minute, Darren, please go back to this. So from trauma informed to trauma restored, like, talk about that really quick. I mean, I know we're gonna go like right into content here, but that one hit my ears, so I'm sure other people want to hear more.

Stacy Nation (01:43)

Yeah, you know, trauma informed practices has been around for a really long time at this point. Like we're talking a couple decades, and I'm going into some schools and they're not trauma informed yet. And I'm saying, come on, friends, you gotta get on board. Like trauma informed is good for everyone in your school, especially post COVID. Now I know people don't want to talk about COVID, but that was a massive global trauma that we all went through and especially educators went through.

And so when we move from trauma-informed, we move to trauma restorative. We move through that, right? Trauma-sensitive, trauma restorative, which really says we know what trauma-informed practices are. It's transparency, it's safety, it's connection. And now we're going to move into that trauma restoration piece, which is really your trauma-restorative piece. We're gonna really value relationships. We're gonna repair relationships, we're gonna work on.

Educators repairing with students, students repairing with students, parents and students connecting. And so it's a lens where I don't think we talk enough about it. because and we gotta catch up. Like I'm to say to a lot of my schools, friends, it's time. If you're not on board with understanding how trauma impacts the brain, you're late. So come there's research. This is no longer something it's a public health issue. This is no longer something that's just sort of an idea.

We know that this exists, and it's time to move through that to the next lens.

Darrin Peppard (03:09)

Yeah, no, I love that. I I appreciate you kind of kind of you know explaining that and and outlining that a little bit more. we were talking before we hit the record button about well, we talked about a lot of things, but but in particular, we were talking about those maybe newer leaders in in their positions. And a lot of the folks that listen to the show here are those early career leaders. And obviously when you first get the keys as a building administrator, district administrator.

there are a million things that you can be thinking about. And almost never are questions like how do I how do I lead in such a just a trauma reality at at this point in in time, right? Like everybody is dealing with some trauma. So let's maybe start there. If if I'm a if I'm an early career leader, if I just got the keys to my building

Well yes, I'm thinking about curriculum, I'm thinking about schedule, I'm thinking about all of the stuff. What might be some practices or just some things to be aware of that can help leaders lead people who have gone through trauma?

Stacy Nation (04:17)

Sure. So before

I answer that question, you might have some listeners who are like, I don't even know what trauma is. I don't even know if anybody has trauma. And one of the things I just want to point out is every school in the United States are doing active shooter drills. Every school. And so that in and of itself is a result of the trauma that has occurred in schools. And so for some children,

That's a very traumatizing experience, just the practicing of that for some adults that can be traumatizing, can be activating, different things like that. So I just think it's important to acknowledge that trauma is happening every day and we don't always know what that looks like. Also, when we work with children, children go through all sorts of trauma and it presses stuff on us, right? So when we're calling CPS, when we're making reports, when we're worried about children going home, all those things. So having a lens as a leader that says, okay.

I may not know what to do with trauma in my school. I may not even know who's experiencing trauma in my school, but I'm going to have this trauma-informed, trauma-restorative lens that tells me that the leader is really thinking about relationship, right? The number one resiliency factor when it comes to trauma is having a positive, loving relationship in your life. And so leaders who are focusing on building relationships with their staff.

Understanding their staff outside of the school system. Do they have a family? Where are their parents living? Are their parents aging? Are how old are their kids? Like all of that, understanding the human components that go with it and not just this is a job. Because this isn't just a job. We're working with people. And so that relationship piece is the buffering factor. Yes, we got to get to curriculum. Yes, we've got to teach kids. And

We also have to feel safe in the work environment that we're in. We also have to have leaders that know and care about us as people. We do better, right? Everybody performs better for leaders who care and want to know them. And so to me, that sounds simple, but it's really pretty hard for some leaders to really focus on like the relationship component of.

Darrin Peppard (06:26)

Yeah. And I that's it's something I've heard you say a few times and I I I'm pretty sure even in the the piece that you contributed to Culture First Classrooms, you talked about, you know, nobody's gonna work hard for a boss that they don't like. And, you know, I mean it's kinda like the, you know, Rita Pearson's TED Talk, right? I mean, you don't learn from people you don't

Stacy Nation (06:41)

Absolutely.

Darrin Peppard (06:42)

like. And the same thing is true. You're not gonna work hard for people that you don't like. you're gonna pull back, you're gonna live in your silo and and and those kinds of things. So

So let's let's maybe go just a little bit further. and though you do a lot of speaking and work in schools and and that type of thing, if if there was something that in addition to the relationship piece that you would push a group of leaders to really be thinking about as they're preparing to kick off a new school year, what are some things that that they should be mindful of and and that for that matter that they can share with their staff to help them?

Be the absolute best that they can be.

Stacy Nation (07:21)

Sure. So I spend a lot of time talking to teachers about the strategies they need to have in their toolbox for students. And I actually think leaders need to have some of those same strategies in their toolbox for their teachers. My friend Jen Stein does a beautiful job of this. She set up a regulating teacher's lounge where there's like a massage chair and lighting, and she puts popcorn out every day. And those little things contribute to the emotional regulation of our staff.

And so when I think about leadership and I think about relationship, I also think about emotional regulation. Do your teachers have enough time to go to the bathroom? Do they drink enough water to be hydrated or are they skipping that because they don't have time to go to the bathroom? That sounds like a really silly thing to ask, but when I take a survey, almost 60 to 70% of the audience does not go to the bathroom during the day. So as a leader, I think to myself, hmm.

If I have teachers that aren't even going to the bathroom today because they don't have time to go to the bathroom, what kind of environment have I created where they can't even

Darrin Peppard (08:24)

Exactly.

Stacy Nation (08:25)

meet their basic needs? And then I'm asking them to meet the basic needs of children. Like that's the stuff that's I nobody wants to talk about, but it's real. It's like real life, right? So what contributes to their emotional regulation? Are we checking in with stu teachers after they've had a really big event with their students? Or do we just move on?

And do we say, hey, how are you doing with that? What's going on? Do we normalize having a a rough day? Like you're tired? Do we support each other in the hallway? Are we setting up environments in the teacher's lounge that are not toxic but are useful and helpful? You know, those kinds of things I think are where leaders can really support their staff in a way that they're like, Yeah, I want to come to work. I can go to the bathroom during the day. That's a great I know it

Darrin Peppard (09:11)

Yeah.

Stacy Nation (09:11)

sounds silly, but it's a real thing.

Darrin Peppard (09:13)

Yeah, but I don't

think it is silly at all. And you know, I I talk about not exactly that, but I with with leaders, so much of the work that I do with them is really pushing them to be intentional to model what they want to see their teachers doing. So don't

Stacy Nation (09:29)

Hundred percent.

Darrin Peppard (09:30)

don't bore the crap out of them in a staff meeting by standing there talking at them, you know, the all those kinds of things. Like really model good quality instructional strategies, model good engagement strategies.

you know, model that you're taking care of yourself because that's what you want them to do for

Stacy Nation (09:46)

Mm-hmm.

Darrin Peppard (09:47)

their students. And what you're talking about is exactly that. You know, if if I want my classroom to have a safe, you know, emotional environment, then we should be doing the exact same thing for our adults. And before we go away from this though, I I'm gonna play devil's advocate because I guarantee you've heard some of these kinds of questions. And

I'm sure there are a few out there right now who are like, yeah, that whole, yeah, give them, give them their de-stressing room. That's just a joke. That's just them trying to get out of the classroom or whatever. I don't believe that in any way, shape, or form, but I'm playing devil's advocate. Respond how do you respond to that? Because I'm sure you hear it.

Stacy Nation (10:26)

Yeah, so it's it's the same thing. I'm gonna tell this story because I think it it answers your question. So when I was doing a lot of school based mental health, I would have a teacher who would call me and say, This kid's driving me crazy, come get this kid out of my classroom. And I would say, Okay, so I would go get the kid out of the classroom and what would I do? I would walk with the kid, I would take the kid to the swings, I would shoot hoops with the kid, I would give the kid a snack, I would make sure the kid took the bathroom break, I would return the kid to to the classroom.

Right. And the kids more regulated. And the teacher would say, Did you give him positive attention for negative behavior? And over time, what I realized is I should have taken the teacher for a walk. I should have taken the teacher to go shoot hoops. Right.

Darrin Peppard (11:06)

Yeah.

Stacy Nation (11:06)

I should have given them a snack. But then even later in my career, I was like, Stacey, you got it all wrong. You should have taken that class and you should have let the teacher and the student go for a walk, take a break, go swing together, regulate and

And co-regulate together and then return regulated. And so I say that because many of the people who push back and are the devil's advocate are people who grew up without that blueprint. They grew up in a time where it's like, suck it up, buttercup. This is what school looks like. It does not look like this. You gotta pay attention, you gotta be quiet, you don't move your bodies, we don't give positive attention for negative behavior. And

That's where I really am like, friends, get on board. The kids we are working with and the staff that we are working with are not the same as it was 20 years ago, 10 years ago, even 30 years ago, right? Like we're not the same. We're living in a completely different time. And so it has to be about relational connection. That doesn't mean we don't hold the standard, right? We don't want teachers just skipping out of their classroom to go sit in the lounge to get a massage.

Who are also not doing their job. Just like we don't want kids to do the same thing. No, but that is a nice little break when you need a moment of time to get your business together because kids are driving you crazy. Right. So it's that idea

Darrin Peppard (12:30)

Yeah.

Stacy Nation (12:31)

of shifting to do what the research actually is supporting versus the way it's always been done.

Darrin Peppard (12:38)

Right. Yeah. No, I love that. And I think I think just that everything to do with that paradigm shift of we c we can't continue to lean into punishment to gain compliance as it's not even a strategy, let's be honest. I mean I I can't even say strategy with that at at the same time because it just it just it doesn't work. But really understanding the human side, leaning into, you know

Not just the mental health, but just even just what you get out of, you know, releasing the endorphins by just getting up and moving and and that kind of thing, you know, just just to get yourself regulated. I I think it's the perfect segue to talk about your new book. You know, you you and I were talking about this before before we jumped on. what an interesting story. So so folks, the book is titled What Really Happens in Therapy Behind Closed Doors.

A guided journey to healing. And all of that sounds wonderful, but then to hear you kind of tell some of the story behind it is even better. So let's start there. with the story behind it.

Stacy Nation (13:45)

Yeah, so so this book really has been formulating in my brain for a very long time. But the way it came to me was I was deployed in 24, 25, and I was working with a lot of people who I really wanted to come into therapy. And I just knew that they were not going to. And I just sat with that for a long time. Like, what if I took all the things that I do in therapy and

I'm in private practice in addition to speaking and training and do all these things. And I work with people who are traumatized, abused, and neglected. And I've done this for over 20 years. And so somebody had asked me one time, Stacey, how many one-on-one conversations have you had? And I was like, over 20,000. I've had over 20,000 one-on-one conversations with people about really hard things. Like in my life, I've had years where I'm talking about suicide every day.

Where I'm talking about sexual abuse and child abuse and all these things that nobody wants to talk about. These are all taboo topics. And so I said, what if I just put it in a book and I tell the story of what really does happen when you come into therapy, when you do the work, what is the work? Because a lot of people are like, I don't want to do talk therapy. And actually we know talk therapy doesn't work. So for people who've been in therapy for twenty years, once a week, and they're not getting better, it's because it doesn't work.

For my veterans and my soldiers who have lots of stories they're never gonna tell anybody. I'm like, what can I offer them? So I came home from deployment, I sat down, I said, I gotta write this book. I wrote it in three days. Like it is a calling. but it's also a like a workbook too. So you can download the journal, you can write in the book, and it's not just that, but it's also my story.

Because I'm a big believer in modeling what I'm asking. And so I have a grandfather who was in World War II. He was on the first ship that was hit, naval ship that was hit by a suicide bomber. And he lived. And he came home and he had shell shock. And we didn't we didn't treat that at that time. And he raised children, one of who was my dad, who really struggled with how he was raised, drank a lot.

He did not break that intergenerational tra trauma, right? Past a lot of that. I'm an A-score of seven. And so I had my own children and I was like, how do I not mess this up in a big way? How do I, how do I overcome the things I know? How do I prevent abuse? Those kinds of things. And so that all unfolds in this book. I was also on this deployment and I'm working with leaders who don't understand neuroscience. And some leaders

even in the education system have their own trauma, right? That they've never ever looked at. And so this gave me the opportunity to go, okay, what do leaders need to understand about their own journey? What do leaders need to understand about how their journey impacts the work that they do? And so all of that is in there. And a part of what I do, I have these five questions that I ask. mostly this came from educators about why they're triggered, right? Why are you triggered by a student?

And you know as well as I do that many or why is a leader triggered by a staff member? That has very little to do with the other person and it has to do everything with what we bring into that experience. And so I ask these five questions. We unfold all of that in this book, all those sorts of things. So the story in and of itself was like just how do I put this in front of someone that's never gonna go to therapy, but they need some support and some help and different things like that.

Darrin Peppard (17:12)

Yeah, I think I think it's awesome. I really do. And I'm I I'm curious. I want to dig in a little bit more on something that you talked about with leaders not understanding neuroscience. Now, without turning this into a neuroscience masterclass, what are a couple things that leaders should know about neuroscience, but they either don't know or what they think they know isn't really correct?

Stacy Nation (17:35)

Yeah. So in the simplest terms, one of my favorite things to talk about is that your reasoning brain and your emotional brain are two totally different parts that function. Right. And so when we're leaders, we expect that the people we work with can do critical thinking and decision making and be reasonable. And so I often say to people, has anybody in your life, particularly a spouse, ever said to you, why did you do that?

And that is never a feel-good question, right? We immediately go.

Darrin Peppard (18:07)

No.

Stacy Nation (18:09)

And so why is a very cortex-related question. But when we ask a why question with emotional content behind it, it completely takes our cortex offline. And we're coming from a place of like reactivity or fight or flight or defensiveness. And so that alone, if you're a leader.

Never ask the question why. Why is reserved for like history and social studies and science and hard facts. When you're working with humans, we don't ask that question. We say help me understand, tell me more. Because we want that cortex to stay online. And so I think once we start to realize like, different parts of our brain are activated at different times, we can really dig into how do we maximize that and use it as a strength versus a challenge.

Stacy Nation (18:55)

Other thing that I would say I would love leaders to understand about the brain is that your sensory system and your fight-flight-freeze response work in tandem together. So sensory system stuff can activate a a a fight flight-freeze trauma response.

Also, when someone's really activated, you can use sensory things to lower that activation. And so those two pieces of neuroscience, I think, change people's lives. Understanding that your cortex and your emotional components are two very different functions of the brain and they don't always work together. Sometimes they work against each other. And then

Darrin Peppard (19:33)

Yeah.

Stacy Nation (19:34)

understanding you can use sensory things to lower activation, and you can also

understand that when people are activated, you can use sensory to lower that activation. So those to me

Darrin Peppard (19:44)

Yeah.

Stacy Nation (19:45)

as a leader make a huge difference.

Darrin Peppard (19:48)

I think that's awesome. I'm I'm curious. I just I just have to ask. So when when you worked with military leaders and had some of those conversations, because I I don't remember if you said this while we were recording or before, but you know, they obviously have their own traumas, whether it's childhood trauma or or military trauma or or whatever it is, how d how is that received from from leaders who typically wouldn't lean into that?

Stacy Nation (20:16)

Yeah, it's been it's been a journey to be honest. So I have been working with military members for 13 years. And in the first two years, I had more military members come into my office that were suicidal with a plan to die than I've ever had in my entire life. And most of them were early war, like early 2000 war people. And so when I started to teach about neuroscience,

and now later I have enough rank, I'm setting in meetings with big leaders, I am a leader, and I'm teaching about these things. More people are coming on board and saying, this makes so much sense. My wife, my husband, it would be so helpful for them to understand that. And so when we were getting to ready to redeploy, which means reintegrate back home, we did a whole reintegration plan that I've presented nationally that we're pushing up to.

To change policy and it was really based on high risk behaviors and what's happening at home. And I kind of took the aces to be honest. And I said, What's happening currently in your life? and where are you at with your mental health? But also, you know, if you have a lot of trauma before you have military trauma, that is all part of your memory and your bank. And and it and it exacerbates.

A lot of our symptomology. And so then I also did a lot of training around what do we do when we do that, which is another reason why I wrote the book. Because I know a lot of people are not gonna go sit in a therapist's office. We therapists tend to be my my husband calls it hippy-dippy bullshit. And so we tend to be touchy-feely, we tend to be hippy-dippy.

Darrin Peppard (21:49)

Right.

Stacy Nation (21:49)

But what what really the leaders took away from that is one, a better understanding of their own journey, like whoa.

I didn't know that that's what was happening inside of me. And then two, this is really useful for me to know about my soldiers. And if we can get a soldier assistance in an acute stage versus a chronic stage, we can treat PTSD. We can treat shell shock. We have lots of treatments for those things that are very effective.

And so I think it really shifted the way leaders looked at that. There was no longer of we still have mental health stigma, but they were really like, whoa, wait a minute. This is about let's get him help right away, as opposed to suck it up, buttercup.

Darrin Peppard (22:36)

let's l stay with the leaders, but from a little bit different perspective here. If I'm a school leader, if I'm a district leader and things are really resonating with me as I'm listening to you talk and I'm thinking, Man, I'd really love to have Stacy come work with my staff.

What does that typically look like? When when when you're going and working with let let's say you're let's say when I was a high school principal, if I had called and said, Stacy, I've got 140 staff or 140 teachers, and an additional 50 or 60 staff. What what does something like that look like? What what are you really leaning into to support

Stacy Nation (23:09)

Yeah.

Darrin Peppard (23:10)

that group of people?

Stacy Nation (23:11)

Well, one, I want leaders to have a plan. I don't think this work is one and done. I don't think you have me in for a day of training and you're all good to go. I want leaders to think long term. And it doesn't just have to be me, but I want there to be a plan. How because it's important to have repetition. People don't change behavior with one training. And you know that. And so there's

Darrin Peppard (23:34)

Mm-hmm.

Stacy Nation (23:34)

a lot of consulting that goes along with that. So a couple things. One

The number one thing I think educators and leaders need to be thinking about is do we have a shared language in our building about emotional regulation? Are we using zones of regulation? Are we using regulate relate reason? Do we understand what those things mean? Do we understand and have a shared language about the neuroscience connected, right? We say Maslow before Bloom. Do we have a shared understanding of that? The next piece is.

How do we implement that? How do we practice that in the classroom? How do I practice that with my staff? How do we build in these practices? Do we need to figure out how to do some restorative circles? Are we circling up and checking in every day? Do we have that school-wide type stuff? And then I think there is value in really proactively talking about your tier three kids and really having a plan that's more proactive versus reactive.

And so that's where I actually spend quite a bit of my time is how do I support educators in taking the neuroscience, understanding trauma-informed practices, and implementing it with some of their toughest kids to lower behavior. So that's, you know, that looks a lot of different ways. I've done a ton of virtual trainings. I do a lot of rural work. And so, you know, I do monthly virtual trainings for teachers who have early outs. I do in-person trainings and then throughout the year.

I've, you know, there's lots of ways. I have an online class that teachers can that I've had whole school districts take because they're like, Stacy, we can't bring you in, but we want to have this shared piece. How do we do that? So there's a lot of ways to make that happen. What I tell leaders all the time is if you can dream it, we can do it. because you know your kids, you know your staff, you know what you need. But that shared language is really a really important piece to that.

Darrin Peppard (25:24)

Yeah, I think that's fantastic. And folks, we're gonna put links down in the show notes for all of that stuff. So you can get to Stacy's website, you can check out her courses. I know you've got a I believe you have like a free master course that's that's on your website. I mean, all kinds of really, really cool stuff. So we'll make sure that that's linked down there for you. So let's let's do this. We're at that point in the show. I'll ask you the same question I ask everybody here. it's the leaning into leadership podcast. So Stacy.

How are you leaning into leadership right now?

Stacy Nation (25:53)

Yeah, I think the the biggest thing for me when I really saw a shift in my own leadership, it was when I was living what I'm teaching. Right. So we c modeling is one thing, but when we are say what I never ask people to do what I'm not willing to do myself. And leadership is not just about modeling, it's also about truly living what we're teaching. And so when that's so integrated.

Then I think your leadership changes. I also believe that we have wonderful leaders who are not sharing the good stuff they're doing. And so I want leadership, I want leaders who are great leaders to be much more vocal about what they're doing. And one of the ways I'm leaning into leadership is writing more, training leaders more, saying these are the things we can do to shift dynamics and systems, right? I work in

Education military. You can't get more crazy systems than those two systems.

Darrin Peppard (26:51)

Yeah.

Stacy Nation (26:51)

So as leaders, what are the things that we can change or shift or these little pieces that are really important to advocate for? so those are some ways I lean into leadership.

Darrin Peppard (27:02)

Yeah, I think it's awesome. That's a great answer. so people are gonna want to follow you, they're gonna wanna, you know, check out your work, all of that kind of stuff. What's the best way for them to be able to do that?

Stacy Nation (27:12)

Yeah, so I'm on Facebook. You can just look for Stacy Nation or Stacy G Nation. same person. I'm on Instagram, Stacy G Nation. I'm on LinkedIn. I have a website, www.gobyu.org. you can find the book on Amazon if you Google me. And I have a ton of YouTube content. So I did have a previous name, Stacy York. There's quite a bit under Stacy York. and a lot of people know me as Stacy York. So either way, you'll you'll find me.

Darrin Peppard (27:40)

Outstanding. Again, we'll put all of that stuff down on the show notes so people have an opportunity to get connected with you. Man, it was a long time coming, but Stacy, I'm so glad we had an opportunity to do this.

Stacy Nation (27:50)

Yeah, thanks for having me, Darren. I'm so excited to just partner and you're right, it has been a long time in coming. So I'm glad I was here today. Thank you.

Darrin Peppard (27:58)

Yeah, awesome.

Man, what an awesome conversation with Stacy Nation.

Make sure that you get down there into the show notes, get connected with her, and go grab a copy of her book. And now it is time for a pep talk.

Today on the Pep Talk, what I'd really like to push for all of you as leaders, especially those of you who are just now coming back, you're starting your school year, you have students in the building, maybe you just have your teachers back in the building. There's so many things that can come at you right now. So many things that can pull you in many different directions. Not to mention you have a plan and all of those things you want to do related to school improvement.

I want to challenge you not to set those things aside, but to put it into perspective and remember that your presence is going to be one of the most powerful things to really truly reaching those goals. So especially as you begin, make sure you are present both physically and engagement-wise with those who are around you.

Be present in meetings. Be present in the hallway. Be present when you're in the classrooms. Make sure that you are there to listen, not only to respond, but really there to listen to learn. Put the time in. Invest in your presence because it will truly make a difference. Down the road When you're evaluating the effectiveness of that school improvement plan.

Hey, that's what I've got for you this week, folks. As always, thanks so much for joining me here on the show. Please rate, review, subscribe, and share leaning into leadership with someone else who would benefit from this content. Get out there, have a road-to-awesome week.