Episode 143: Get on the Line and Stop Punishing Personalities

Season five is here. Probably.

Kasey and Brian return to discuss what “back to basics” looks like in school leadership. They explore why leaders sometimes need to get on the line with their people, how screens may interfere with learning, why behavior should be treated as something students can be taught, and why educators must stop punishing personalities that do not fit neatly into the classroom.

Along the way, they detour through Taco Bell, restorative practices, handwritten notes, principal titles, paddles (not really), and the fine line between helping others and doing everyone else’s job.

The big ideas: Leaders build trust by sharing the work, accountability should lead to learning, and every student’s identity needs room to exist in school.

Kasey shares what a crowded Taco Bell taught him about leadership: Sometimes leaders have to stop managing from the sidelines and get on the line. Brian explains why his school is going “back to basics,” including more intentional use of technology, direct communication with families, and a renewed focus on relationships.

The conversation also examines behavior as instruction. Rather than relying on punishment, rewards, or the latest packaged program, educators must identify the skills students need and intentionally teach, practice, and reinforce them. Brian offers a particularly important challenge: Stop punishing personalities. The qualities that frustrate an adult in one setting may become a student’s greatest strengths when they are understood and refined.

Topics include:

• Getting on the line as a school leader
• Building credibility and trust by sharing the work
• Knowing when a leader needs to get off the line and repair the system
• Returning to hands-on, paper-and-pencil learning
• Using technology to access or communicate information without allowing it to replace learning
• Treating reading, mathematics, and behavior as equally important areas of instruction
• Accountability versus punishment
• The limitations of consequences, rewards, and stickers
• Restorative practices and protecting students from being revictimized
• Separating a student’s behavior from the student’s identity
• Refusing to punish students simply because their personalities challenge us
• Rebuilding relationships with families through phone calls, face-to-face conversations, and handwritten notes

Episode timestamps:

• 00:07 – Welcome back and the beginning of season five
• 01:15 – Kasey’s new role and why leaders must “get on the line”
• 05:52 – Sharing the work to build relationships and trust
• 08:53 – Brian’s back-to-basics approach
• 09:23 – Rethinking technology during the learning process
• 12:05 – Screens, distraction, boredom, and student behavior
• 15:20 – Can behavior be taught?
• 17:12 – Accountability, intervention, and behavior as instruction
• 19:39 – Restorative practices: Is the problem the practice or its implementation?
• 24:21 – Returning to the basics of discipline
• 25:00 – Stop punishing personalities
• 28:11 – Leadership, authority, and what staff should call the principal
• 30:20 – Direct communication and reconnecting with families
• 32:20 – Final takeaways
• 33:35 – Getting on the line without staying there forever

Key takeaway:

Students should be held accountable for meeting reasonable expectations, but accountability must include instruction. Our job is not to punish away who students are. It is to help them develop the skills to use who they are successfully.