Episode 125 | Calm in the Chaos: Leading Through Modern Challenges

LWH Podcast Recording: Welcome to the Lead with Hope podcast, where we explore the power of hope in leadership and in life. I'm your host, Brandy Kelly, and today we're joined by award-winning superintendent and best-selling author Glenn Robbins. We'll be bridging the gap between ancient stoic wisdom and the high-pressure reality of modern school leadership, exploring how to find calm in the chaos, turn rejection into redirection. and make the hard calls that define a leader's legacy. To kick things off, Glenn, I'd love to hear more about your background and the path that brought you here.

Glenn Robbins: Yeah. So I'm in Brigantine, New Jersey. I've been in this seat in February will be seven years. before that would have the superintendent in another district for four years. So it's kind of crazy when you think about it. I'll have 11 years. If it was like just yesterday I started with that. before that, I was a principal for several years. And then before that, assistant principal, varsity soccer coach, history teacher, and so forth. And before all that, in another lifetime, I was a water well driller. So drilling for water from wells into the household. So extreme, two different types of job, but I think they kind of correlate at times, to be perfectly honest where we are.

LWH Podcast Recording: so a water well driller. Now we're building a house, Glenn, right now, and my husband just called the guy who's going to drill the well that's going to supply our house with water. That's what you did. Wow. when you talk about, your journey from being a water well driller to the superintendent seat throughout all of these years, is there something consistent that has brought you joy in each chapter of your life?

Glenn Robbins: you know, I think it's evolved over time. and ultimately where I am now, it's my family, my my two children, my wife. That's my biggest pride amongst it. my bus biggest successes in my life, to be perfectly honest. but I've always been a person that tried to find the best in something in each and everything that I did. So You know, I think ultimately maybe it was just trying to have the right mindset throughout all the years to find a source of pride in everything I was trying to do. Not always it's easier said than done, I'm not gonna lie. But right now definitely my family and where we are.

LWH Podcast Recording: that's definitely what matters most in this life. as a wife and a mother and a grandmother now, having four grandchildren, it really helps you to remember what matters most. And you're exactly right, Glenn. It's it's family. Now your books, especially your book, Calm and the Chaos. kind of lean into that stoic wisdom. So talk to us a little bit about how you apply these kinds of ancient principles in navigating the high pressure role that you're in now in that superintendency.

Glenn Robbins: Yeah, great question. wrote this book a few years ago with co-author Danny Bauer, a good friend of mine. You've a lot of people probably know Danny from the education realm and so forth. But this came to light before the pandemic, and I kept thinking people were really hitting some hard times, you know, mentally here and there. Not you know, people think a superintendent think of a strong person that knows all the answers and it's far from it and is a person that has to go through day in and day out solving problems for the best they can do. And You know, being a historian, I always love Stoicism. And I remember something my grandfather would always say, it's not the problem you have, it's how you handle it. And it kind of ties into Epitetus. And Epitetus was always talking about that. Like, you know, how one thing is received, you know, you look at it from the lens of where you are right then in that life. So as a printable or vice printable or teacher or a As superintendent, that's why Danny and I put the book together. We gave examples, we changed some names here and there, but we gave examples of like hard times that we ran into and how we could relate it to like Marcus Aurelius or Seneca and Dorcado or Zeno. And excuse me, how it could be applied into the everyday leadership for school leaders. So that's why we really leaned on that. Just that philosophy, whether it's For us it's, you know, the common chaos for the stoic leaders. For others, it's Zen, it's Buddhism, whatever it may be. excuse me. I think if a like, you know, things that we do require us to ground ourselves the time, whether through a meditation

LWH Podcast Recording: Yeah.

Glenn Robbins: practice or some sort. you know, the the best way of example I can put it is, you know, you cleaned your house on Saturday. And then next Saturday, like you mentioned, all the kids or grandkids come over and it's dirty again. You need to clean it again. And that's sort of like your meditation. You can't just do it one time, read this book and say, I'm gonna now be the most stoic person ever. No, it is a practice that you have to do continuously.

LWH Podcast Recording: And I talk about habits a lot on this show. You know, that's the first pillar of my hope framework. And, I think about those practices that that you cultivate to be that stoic leader. Are there any habits that have really served you well in developing that mindset for yourself?

Glenn Robbins: Well, I think it's you know, Danny and I kind of broke the book up into different chapters where it's like the the virtues. So it's wisdom, justice, courage, and temperance. And they all relate to one way or another. And you could say it's biblical, you could say it's Buddhist, whatever you could say. But it all ties into like they do relate. You know, do you have the courage to say something or to remain quiet when you need to remain quiet and you shouldn't say something and or You have the wisdom or the the want to learn instead of just thinking that you know it all. you know, the growth on that. So for me, it's the habit is, you know, I guess it's cliche, is you're a lifelong learner. You're always trying to get better. And the second you stop trying to get better, it's a second that you're not as strong and not as successful as you're gonna be. So for me, looking at it from the lens of those virtues, trying to get to the ultimate height. You know, it keeps you grounded too, because you see how these people said several thousands of years ago were using this and they were still dealing with the same personnel issues, the same personality issues, the same egos, the same, you know, all the different things that go into just being a human. Not much has changed on that aspect. So how do they deal with it in the tough times and the good times?

LWH Podcast Recording: Timeless principles. That's what you're talking

Glenn Robbins: Yes.

LWH Podcast Recording: about. They're they're principles that are gonna serve us now as much as they did way back when Aristotle used them. And you know, John Maxwell talks about a principle that is so true, and it is you have to know yourself to grow yourself.

Glenn Robbins: Yep.

LWH Podcast Recording: And I love using assessment tools as a starting point for leaders like the disc, the working genius, the enneagram. There's a number of them, investing in yourself and in the people in your organization in in assessments like that, it can really be transformational in terms of how they show up, not just at work, but also in their homes, Because as you

Glenn Robbins: Uh-huh.

LWH Podcast Recording: said at the top of the show, what matters most to you, your family. And we have to model that. We have to model that we are leading from who we are. And first and foremost, we lead ourselves well, and then we lead our family well, and then we can lead well at work. So I love

Glenn Robbins: Yeah. Yeah.

LWH Podcast Recording: those timeless principles. Now, Glenn, in your book, I won't back down, you talk about turning rejection into redirection. Could you share a little bit more about maybe a story from that book with the listeners?

Glenn Robbins: Yeah, so this book was fun. This was actually the third book I wrote, but I released a second. And it was more of a sit down and kind of reflect. And working with the editor, they wanted me to showcase more of my struggles, which I kind of struggled sharing that. but I also knew how, you know, different parts of life for any type of an educational person going through a teacher and all the way up to superintendent or board member, you get rejected, you know, and how do you deal with that? and I just kept thinking about how could I relate it to somehow? So I won't back down, it's based off of Tom Petty, obviously. And you know, I think about each chapter is a different musical star that was rejected. And you know, it it's funny. I I saw Columbia House just close for for the close. I thought they closed years ago, but maybe it's from the money I never sent them. You know, if you

LWH Podcast Recording: Ha ha.

Glenn Robbins: remember back in the day, you you know, if you get 10 CDs or 10 records

LWH Podcast Recording: Yeah.

Glenn Robbins: or 10 tape for like a penny or whatever, you know, so I was always into music. There was no phones back then, so you would just take the the the labels and you would read the inside and the covers and so forth. So for me, I I didn't realize some of the struggles that the musicians had had. And I thought about the times where I was rejected numerous times to be a printable, and it had nothing to do with me, it had to do with a bunch of other extra ex outside factors that I never knew really truly existed until I started diving in and asking reflective questions to the people that said thanks but no thanks. you know for me the the cool part to me that really starts off the book is with Tom Petty. And Tom Petty, if you're a big Tom Petty fan like I am, he's he was already successful in the eighties, but he put together his solo record, Full Moon Fever. And you know, that has I Won't Back Down, that has a bunch of other incredible songs on there. And he went to his executives and executives said, This is gonna be a bomb. We're not putting it out there. So right then and there, like he's rejected and he doesn't know what to do. Like he put so much time and effort into this. And you know, from there he's he's down on the dumps. And then one of his friends finally reaches out and knows what's going on and says, Let's go out to dinner. They go out to dinner, there's musical instruments there and says, Hey, let's play some of your songs. You know, the the just get it out, you know. He does, and there's a bunch of other executives there that hear it and they want the record and he's already signed underneath a record elsewhere. And it's kind of funny how many times did this happen to you where somebody told you no, but then somebody else hears it says yes, and then all of a sudden it goes back to that same person that rejected and said, Wow, that's an incredible idea. We need to put this out there. So Tom

LWH Podcast Recording: Right.

Glenn Robbins: was in that. But I talk about in that not only the rejection, but having a friend that's there for you in that regard. And who is that person that sees the value in you?

LWH Podcast Recording: Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Glenn Robbins: When you don't always see it. So for me, in that story sharing that, it was actually George Harrison from The Beatles. And if you YouTube the song I Won't Back Down, you'll see Ringo Starr and you'll see George Harrison playing in the music video, which is kind of mind-boggling because I grew up watching on TV. I remember that video coming out and I never realized it. And then when I went back

LWH Podcast Recording: Mm-hmm.

Glenn Robbins: when I was writing the book, I'm like, my goodness, how did I never see the two Beatles

LWH Podcast Recording: Yeah.

Glenn Robbins: in there? So it's somebody, you know, so to

LWH Podcast Recording: That's cool.

Glenn Robbins: me was every chapter is about different rejections, whether it's for a job, whether a boss says no, whether it's an idea, it just simply gets shot down. And how these musical artists go through those hard times too and excel. And what would have happened if they listened to the critics? And they

LWH Podcast Recording: Right.

Glenn Robbins: we wouldn't have half these musical artists that we have today. So now that I got like Taylor Swift and Jimi Hendrix, the Beatles, Elvis, and a bunch of others. Artist and error. It's gotta have a fun one to write.

LWH Podcast Recording: The the Elvis one is really what hits home for me. I have a picture my mom and dad took when I was like two or three years old. We went to Graceland and as a little girl, I'm kissing a picture of Elvis. They were huge Elvis

Glenn Robbins: Ha ha ha.

LWH Podcast Recording: fans, and so you know, obviously by virtue of them, I was also an Elvis fan, but I love the the way that you weave that storytelling in and you use the rejection. That those artists face because the reality is whether it's musicians or athletes or school leaders, we all have rejection. And oftentimes the higher we climb, the more stories of rejection that we have. But I think it's sad, Glenn, that we don't share those. We don't share those vulnerably and authentically because. We've got that mask on. And what would it look like if we would take that mask off and we would just be our authentic self and share that story to maybe one day help somebody else?

Glenn Robbins: Yeah. Yeah. I think it's easier said than done. I think it's also just the the culture where we are, you know, the Western influence versus the eastern influence and so forth of world. And I agree with you. And that was what part of the hard part was writing the book was putting myself out there and I was hoping it would connect with other educators that are going through various times. And you know, and I shared that with a bunch of other people that were trying to go for jobs and they weren't getting it. And then they were like, I read your book and I felt so much better. Like and I've had other friends when I asked them to read it. They're like, We never knew you had all these struggles. And I'm like, No, no one's perfect. We're far from it, you know, and how do you persevere and get through it? So, like I said, it was a big musical book that tie into how do you get past some low times in your life? And now looking back, you celebrate them, but it's hard to get other people to admit things here and there to put it out there and

LWH Podcast Recording: Sure.

Glenn Robbins: be vulnerable.

LWH Podcast Recording: I think it took a lot of courage for you to do that and to share those rejections and and those stories. So I commend you for that. I think it it's it's a powerful model that you are providing to the people that you mentor. And you do a fair amount of mentoring in this space now. So what advice would you give emerging leaders right now?

Glenn Robbins: Right now, get a mentor. Get a

LWH Podcast Recording: Yeah.

Glenn Robbins: mentor as many as you can.

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Glenn Robbins: I have a favorite quote from Marcus Aurelius. let me see if I can find it so I can somewhat paraphrase

LWH Podcast Recording: Yeah.

Glenn Robbins: it for you. Because I think it really hits home. yeah, here it is. And I put this in my third book that I know we were gonna talk about, but it helps open

LWH Podcast Recording: Mm-hmm.

Glenn Robbins: up before the introduction. So think about it from a leadership or just thinking of being a person. When you wake up in the morning, tell yourself the people I will deal with today will be meddling, ungrateful, arrogant, dishonest, jealous, and surely. They are like this because they can't tell good from evil, but I have seen the beauty of good and the ugliness of evil, and I recognize that the wrongdoer has a nature related to my own, not of the same blood or birth, but by the same mind and possessing his share of the divine. So no one none of them can hurt me. None them can implement me, imp implicate me in ugliness, nor can I feel angry at my relative or hate him. We were born to work together. So,

LWH Podcast Recording: Mm-hmm.

Glenn Robbins: you know, you're gonna wake up some days and the world's gonna feel like it's totally angry and against you, but they might not know better, you know, and it's your job to accept it and see how you can transform it to the better in some particular way. Sort of like we talked about with epitetus. And my grandfather's not the problem you have, it's how you handle it going forward. So as

LWH Podcast Recording: Absolutely.

Glenn Robbins: a school leader or somebody starting out and going on leadership, don't take everything personally. You know, take it day by day, get mentors and breathe.

LWH Podcast Recording: Absolutely. the thing that I wish somebody would have told me years ago is the thing that I told kids, It was surround yourself with the right circle because it makes all the difference. And it might be the people that you work with. It might not be the people that you work with. Either is fine. Glenn, you and I connected, I think first through the Institute of Education Innovation, but then we continue the conversation by just connecting on LinkedIn. And don't be afraid to reach out to people. People, I believe, are good at the core and they do as good as they know to do, I

Glenn Robbins: Yeah.

LWH Podcast Recording: I believe that. I have to believe that. Now, my husband, on the other hand, he will tell me, Brandy, trust no one. I don't want to live my life that way because that's not who I am. And as a leader, we have to lead out of who we are, but we can choose who we want to become as well.

Glenn Robbins: Yeah. Yeah, you're you know, and I I understand your husband's point of that. I feel like that

LWH Podcast Recording: Yeah.

Glenn Robbins: sometimes. I've met many a superintendent who have talked to me like that, and it's like wow. but I, you know, there is there's types of people. There is a person that can add and multiply your value andor, you know, your connections and your networking. And then there are people who can subtract and divide you in that regard. So I'd rather be an

LWH Podcast Recording: Yeah. Yep.

Glenn Robbins: addition and multiplier than like you said, the other way. And that's why You know, we connected and we continue to connect because of that. You know, good spirited people for the right reasons.

LWH Podcast Recording: Yeah. it's a choice, like I said, it's a choice in how you want to show up and how you want to live your life. And I completely agree with you, Glenn. That was well put. I want to add and multiply. I want to put good into the world. I want to be the light of the world, And so that's what I'm out here doing and sharing the hope. But before we talk about what's giving you hope, which is one of my favorite questions. I want you to share a little bit with us about your third book, Unclench Your Fist. Can you tell me a little bit about that book?

Glenn Robbins: Yeah, so the third book, really excited about this one. This one's written for any leader. It doesn't not just education, it's for all leadership. And the fifth represents maybe anger or maybe represents the intents, or you're struggling with the situation that you know, I open up the book talking about, you know, you got the job and then you made a decision and how you're laying in bed staring at the ceiling, going, my gosh, did I just destroy my entire reputation? making this decision. You know, it's not a HR or a college class worksheet that you're working on now. It's legit now. And so for me it's like, you know, when you clench up, you don't always make the right decisions. And there's a a great quote in there, you know, the person that holds the hot ash will burn themselves if they keep holding on to it. You gotta let go of that. And that's the anger that you're you're dealing with. So for this this particular book, I teamed up all the different Areas or chapters with historical leaders. So in the first

LWH Podcast Recording: Yeah.

Glenn Robbins: part is the internal grip facing yourself. The second part is the open hand making the move, you know, obviously you're thinking about everything, then making the move. And then the third part is enduring the grass, surviving in the aftermath. So it's more of dealing with a Machiavellian type of leadership. So if you're used to, you know, backstabbing or things going wrong and so forth. How do you get through those situations? So The kickoff in this one, you know, my first chapter talks about Ulysses S. Grant, and he's in the he's in Mexico. I'm sorry, he's in Texas, and he's a young private, and he's in the high prairie grass riding along from one fort to another near San Antonio. And he starts hearing the wolves hollering and hollering, and he's scared because he's not familiar with the wolves where he's from. Lieutenant Benjamin, who he's with, is from Indiana. He's familiar with wolves. So he asked him and Grant puts it in his memoirs. He goes, you know, how many wolves do you think there are? And before he asked him that question, he said to himself, and he put it out there, How do you ask him to turn around? He would said yes. And so he asked him, How many were there? And he says, you know, twenty. So they ride even more. And if you're familiar with prairie grass, it's hard to see. You can't see over two or three feet. So the wolves could be in there anywhere. And he comes around at the riding and they see two wolves standing and sitting on a A rock ledge and just two of them. And as they rode by, they did nothing. They were doing not moving, not screaming, nothing. And he used that moving on to his generalship and to Prince and to presidency, where people will hoot and holler. But when it's time to show up, most of the time they don't. So, you

LWH Podcast Recording: Mm.

Glenn Robbins: know, it seems like a lot when somebody replies all by accident on an email, and

LWH Podcast Recording: Yeah.

Glenn Robbins: all of a sudden you think, my gosh, the whole staff and the whole community hate me. And or one person speaks at a council meeting. You forget that that one person's only less than 1%. And were the rest of the 99% to home, they're happy. So, you know, dealing with those types of situations is like counting your wolves. You know, there's gonna be a lot of hooting and hollering, especially on social media. But when

LWH Podcast Recording: Uh-huh.

Glenn Robbins: it's time to show up, will they show up? And if they are showing up, are you ready to handle them? You know, and clear do it the clearer thoughts. So I talk about that, talk about Churchill, I talk about so many other different types of leaders throughout difficult scenarios. But then dealing with it. And this one was a real joy to write because of the historical aspects of it.

LWH Podcast Recording: Mm-hmm. we can learn a lot from leaders like Winston Churchill. one of the quotes that I recall off the top of my head is let no good crisis go to waste, so much wisdom in some of these leaders that we can learn from and apply it in our lives and in our leadership. And I think that's powerful, Glenn. So Those three books are powerful books. And our listeners, I'm assuming they can get those on Amazon or anywhere you buy books.

Glenn Robbins: Yep, anywhere you buy books, Amazon, Barnes and Nobles. Yep.

LWH Podcast Recording: So where's your inspiration come from, Glenn? I'm just curious.

Glenn Robbins: family. I think it has

LWH Podcast Recording: Yeah.

Glenn Robbins: to do with family. I think living near the shore, living at the beach area helps a little bit. That salt air is a little bit different.

LWH Podcast Recording: Yeah.

Glenn Robbins: so I I'm blessed in that regard. But it's also people throughout the years, you know, like when I was going through a lot of my career, people were like, You need to write this stuff down, you need to write these stories down, you need to put this stuff out there to help somebody else. And I always laugh. And then finally teamed up with Danny Bauer and he really helped me to unleash that in the book and then continuing on my own. but I've enjoyed doing that, you know, blogging for many years before the books and so forth. But inspiration is, you know, I have young kids, I want them to have the best education, and every kid that I look at is just like mine. So, you know, like if your grandkids went to my school, I would give them the best possible opportunity because they get one childhood. You know, and

LWH Podcast Recording: That's right.

Glenn Robbins: that one childhood, it's our goal to try to make it the best possible childhood there is.

LWH Podcast Recording: that's inspirational. that brings me to our last question for the show. And that is, what is giving you hope in education right now?

Glenn Robbins: Well, there's a lot not to give you hope, right? I think

LWH Podcast Recording: Yeah.

Glenn Robbins: many people listening to this. what gives me hope is the good-hearted people that are still in the job. You know, the good-hearted people that go to work each and every day because they know they're making a difference. And it's as hard as that might be sometimes to get to shut the door or cry or vent or turn on loud music, whatever to get it all out. The hope for me is I see such amazing people doing amazing work. you know, to give you an example. My son went to my school district for the last several years. He just graduated out of it. And

LWH Podcast Recording: Mm-hmm.

Glenn Robbins: I saw him really struggle as a COVID kid coming from a school that was shut down to our school and caught him up and even more that he's now successful. So the the work that the people do day in and day out, it's truly remarkable. And I'm not just talking about the teachers, I'm talking about the bus drivers, the paraprofessionals. The secretaries, the the whole village of a community, you know, rec teams, basketball teams, whatever it may be, everyone working for the right reasons for kids, not focusing on all the wrong reasons or just micro picking everything. It's like, what's the best we can give these kids and how do we continue to help them grow into something better, you know, as education should be. So that's my that's what gives me hope. It's just kind hearted, amazing people in the field day in and day out.

LWH Podcast Recording: and there are a ton of good people out there. You just have to look for I was driving to my daughter's house yesterday, and just one small example. there was a couple of ladies who got into a collision and the police hadn't been called, nothing yet. And I pulled over, I was gonna check on them. There was already a good Samaritan on the site, and he was going from car to car checking on them, seeing if they were okay. You know, there are Good people everywhere, but what we are going to find is what we look for. And

Glenn Robbins: Yes.

LWH Podcast Recording: so we've got to look for the good. We've got to celebrate the good. We've got to call it out. And if we can consistently focus on that, research tells us that we can completely rewire our brain and we can become more positive people that are healthier and our overall well-being is going to improve. So I want to encourage people to look for the good. as you're listening to this podcast after you listen to this podcast, spread a little kindness today. So Glenn, that's my note of encouragement to the listeners. Do you want to leave them with any last thoughts?

Glenn Robbins: You know what? They can contact me at GlenRobbins.com. I would gladly reach out if they have questions about the books or mentorship or anything. as you mentioned, I mentor a lot of people across the country

LWH Podcast Recording: Mm-hmm.

Glenn Robbins: and I've been doing it for quite some time. I enjoy every minute because I learn a lot of stuff from other people and they help ground me at times and put me back to where we need to be. Such as I relating with you and so many others, we're in this together. You know, when your world feels like it's beaten you down, don't forget that there are so many other people like you mentioned out there that are willing to step up and help you when you need it.

LWH Podcast Recording: 100%. Well, Glenn, thank you for giving your time today, sharing a little bit more about the books that you have written to share that stoic wisdom into school leadership. So thank you and I hope you have a great day.

Glenn Robbins: Thank you.

LWH Closing: That's a wrap for today's episode of Lead with Hope. ⁓ Remember, ⁓ the world needs your leadership and change starts with you. ⁓ Fuel your life with HOPE, embrace your purpose, and shine your light for others. ⁓ If this episode inspired you, I'd be so grateful if you could take a moment to give us a five-star rating and share it. ⁓ Every review helps spread HOPE ⁓ and empowers more leaders to rise. ⁓ Thanks for listening ⁓ and until next time, ⁓ keep leading with HOPE. ⁓