Episode 123 | From School Psychologist to Superintendent: A 38-Year Leadership Journey

speaker-0: Welcome to the Lead with Hope Podcast, your go-to spot for fueling your leadership with a little extra hope. I'm your host, Brandy Kelly, and today I'm sitting down with the resilience guy, Rob Martinez. With a 38-year career spanning everything from school psychologist to superintendent, Rob has seen it all. And now he's on a mission to share his wisdom as a motivational speaker. So get ready. This conversation is going to be good. Rob, welcome to the show.

speaker-1: thank you so much for having me, Brandy. It is just a wonderful opportunity to get to sit down with you, to share a little bit and to say hi to all of your viewers. So it's just a great opportunity. I'm looking forward to it.

speaker-0: Well, thanks for coming on the show. Now, as I have reviewed some of the information you shared with me, thirty eight years. That is a really valuable career. Wow.

speaker-1: It's kind of astounding to think, wait, I lasted that long in public education. but quite frankly, it's it was a wondrous career. you know, I was so focused on wanting to get in and be a helper to students and their families and educational communities. And so I was just fired up to go through my programs to become a school psychologist. And get involved directly with students in the classroom. and so I was very fortunate to do that.

speaker-0: I was really excited to see that you started out as a school psychologist because as you probably know, I started out as a school social worker and I worked very closely during those years with the school psychologist. We were a team, we did everything together. And so you went from school psychologist to what some parents call the dark side.

speaker-1: Yes. we were starting up a new school with twelve hundred students actually. So it was a year-round elementary school. I entered this school and you know, it was a new school. We were opening up a new school. It was 1989, and so I had been a psychologist for a couple of years, and we said, okay, I gotta get into this place. And so the principal was kind of meeting people at a coffee shop. And so I went and I met him and we talked for a while. And he's like, Wait, are you interviewing me or am I interviewing you? And I said, Well, if we're gonna do this, we have to do it right. And you know, some psychologists we did a lot of testing on students and and that's part of the job. But what I wanted to do was create an atmosphere and an environment where our teachers had support, our families had support, and kids had direct support as well. And I knew I couldn't do it alone. So we really worked to engage the community of educators and the team around us to kind of create a response to what our students needed. And this was a 1200 student year-round elementary school. And so we really focused on building foundational practices about how we get along on the playground, how we walk through the hallways and treat each other with kindness. And that was just the most wondrous opportunity to be part of a team of people where I think some of the original folks that I worked with are finally retiring this last year. but they had stayed there for over 30 years. And so but it was a great place to get to work with families and teachers and earn that trust, if you will, to be in classrooms and seeing what happens. Because sometimes our school psychologist friends and will do work outside in the office and nobody knows, well, you're working with that child over there all alone. And I said, I want to work in the classrooms. I want to be there learning from the teachers, learning their crafts, learning their their art form so that I can help the student survive in that world, not just survive in the office or outside of the classroom, so they can do some things that will work for them. So I had a great opportunity to do that.

speaker-0: And we can do so much more together. Helen Keller has a beautiful quote about that. And I love quotes. Rob, when you think about that, you had that team vibe going. You guys were working together to build the foundation to set the students up for success. But you moved from school psychologists into administration. And when I did that, I had a parent. Her her child was autistic and I had worked very closely with her and her child. And she looked at me one day and she said, Brandy, why are you going to the dark side?

speaker-1: Yeah, well, and and my step was a little easier. This school where I had worked for over 15 years, so they trusted me. And the principal had moved on to another position. And so the vice principal said, I'm not doing this alone, Rob. And she really kind of. They said, okay, so this is your administrative program. This is the support you're gonna need. This is the large California Association of School of School Administrators. You're getting involved this way. We need your type of energy and skills helping a little bit broader of a scope. And so it was really with a lot of support that I entered that administrative process. And so I was fortunate to become the assistant principal of this same school. for two years before being the principal for two years. and it was just the most marvelous of experiences. again, it we built this trusting team of people that really when we communicated, it wasn't just my idea or your idea. It was like our idea. How is this going to impact all of our students, the community that we worked in. And so again, it was just a very fortunate experience. Where I was able to enter this land of administration in a in a supportive environment. and then after a few years, I got tapped on the shoulder by one of the superintendents and said, I really need you in human resources because we have bigger people with more things that need support, like you just did with all those 1200 kids. Now I got 3,000 employees. Come and help them. And so I went down to human resources for eight years as a director. before an assistant superintendent role opened up in the same district. So I spent 32 years actually in one district doing a variety of roles, earning trust with people, through, you know, work and effort and care for them. loved the place and was able to shine a little bit, I guess. And so other people said, time for a superintendent role, Rob. And I went kicking and screaming a little bit, but I did, you know, manage to Get into a larger district where I did live through some of our COVID experiences. I'll just put it that way. Quite a challenge. It was a large 31,000 student school district. And that was a challenge. So I kind of left that position and did a little bit more work with a another charter school environment, leading several schools there. And then I almost retired several years ago. But then got the feeling I needed to get another place. So I did return to the Antioch Unified School District in Northern California. And I wanted to just go back a step. So I was their chief of human resources for two years. And in that third year, the school board said, and we'd like you to be the acting superintendent. So two jobs for nine months, big roles, big jobs. And that made retirement a little bit more appealing. So anyway, 2005, I retired from the public school systems and just enjoying this first year of retirement so tremendously and still though connected to so many people that who have supported me and that I believe I've been able to support through my time you know in the school. I still get calls, hey Dr. Rob, I got this thing. Hey hey, hey, resiliency guy, come on over and talk to us about this. So I I'm very fortunate about the team of support that I've been able to to to cultivate and who still look to me for a little bit and and I look to them for more answers than anything now too.

speaker-0: And that is a remarkable career that you have had. I'm curious when you when you talk about building that trust, building that resilience for the listeners who are also maybe school administrators or teachers, what would you tell them is maybe the foundational steps that you implemented in that school that you love so much?

speaker-1: You know, and you just said it right there, Brandy. Love so much. You know, I I did a lot of work and reading of Michael Fullen, and he talks about, you know, the six secrets of change and nuance or a couple of the books. And as I was going through my doctoral program, but even my administrative work years ago, some of the theories about just caring for people, you know, and I go even go back to Roland Barth, you know, learning by heart and just really Caring for the people that are there for you. It was one of those early traits from my childhood that just really stuck with me. My parents, who did not have a lot, you know, growing up in Southern California, and their history is that of, you know, picking fruit in the Central Valley of California and really doing thousands of jobs to make it through. But I just so remember them caring for people. Caring for neighbors walking by, caring for strangers walking by, just caring for people. And, you know, Michael Fullen talks about that, about loving your people. And you can't fake that. I mean, it's you can try, and better if to fake it than not love your people. But that sense of people as people, and you should respect them no matter what. You should, you know, give them the care that they. need sometimes the support that they need sometimes if you can you know if you can so I always kind of whatever was happening with me felt that other people I I'm not in this alone I'm not in this alone and especially in a school system so whatever position you happen to be in and I think the same thing for our teachers right it it's tough and a challenge sometimes given all that they're having to do but in your heart You gotta care. You gotta love these little kids in front of you. You've gotta love the thousands of employees that are there. And when you start from that position, then it makes what you do for them part of the natural process. And it doesn't mean everybody gets whatever they want whenever they want, because again, as a functional adult, you know, care also means holding people accountable, giving them the lessons that you want them to learn so that they can. demonstrate their growth and really supporting them through that teaching. So I I think at the heart of it, it comes back to caring for people and wanting to really show them that you are an authentic person that wants to take care and support their growth.

speaker-0: And Rob, faith has always been central to who I am. You know, you talked about your early experiences because of some tragedy that I faced early in my life when my brother Brandon drowned. Faith has been something that has helped me overcome adversity. And I think that it's really important that we have to stay true to ourselves In leadership, we are going to face adversity. we're going to carry adversity probably into leadership as I did. And then we're gonna face adversity. You talked about COVID a little bit. Could you share maybe a specific moment of adversity that tested you, required a mindset shift to help you transform that experience into a source of hope or purpose?

speaker-1: Sure. Well, and and I will give you again that an experience within the COVID setting just because it's so still close to mind. you know, we got a word on a Thursday, hey, there's something happening. Something happening. And, you know, all of a sudden it was in the news and it was flooding and the governor, and I'm going, okay, people are hearing the same news that I'm hearing. And Again, when you're a superintendent, you have a board that you're working with. And so you either have a three person, a five person, a seven person. It's usually an odd number. And and each one of those board members has an idea, has an opinion, has something that they want you to do, even though we through training, people learn, well, the board isn't a board board unless you're sitting at the dais together making decisions. But one person can't really direct the work of a superintendent. But in that case, Five different phone calls were coming in saying, I want you to do this, I want you to do this, I want you to do this, this, and this. And so when you're getting that level of information, talk about a dramatic what do you do moment. And for a superintendent, a budding super young superintendent at that, to be able to figure out, do I listen to these people who are talking to me, or do I go back to what am I doing holistically? What is my current vision? What is my mission? What does my integrity say? What did my ethics say? What am I about? And when I know that I was about caring for kids, for the adults who serve them, for our community of people, deciding on a dime, nobody's coming to work tomorrow. Yeah. This place is going to be silent because we didn't even have enough information to know. When or what is it? It's gonna be a day? Do we need to do a quick clean and then we're gonna be right back at it on Monday? We're gonna have to people work all weekend. So to make that call and to say, you know, 31,000 kids are staying home, 5,000 employees are staying home, buses are not rolling, nobody's in the office. It's such a a weird thing to have to even consider that. But again, at my core, to make that decision at that moment. was the best thing that we could do. Sometimes the stop, get more information, be calm about it. The the essence of calm is something that really I had to work on for a long time and really honing that skill to be able to be in a room of sometimes people frantically deciding we have a $22 million budget problem. What are we going to do? We've got you know, water leaking underneath a high school. What are we gonna do? And quick decisions can sometimes get people moving, but they can also get people moving in the wrong direction. Absolutely. So to sometimes take that pause, remain calm, know that again, if you've worked on your leadership, and this is a key point, if you haven't worked on your leadership, it's easy to cycle up and not remain calm. But if you've worked on it, if you've got your tenants about What are you focused on? Is it a good decision for kids? Is it keeping people safe to make that kind of decision? And that's something that again, you have to work on as you grow your leadership. It doesn't just come out of thin air.

speaker-0: No, no, it's a process and it's something that you never finish doing. It's something continually evolving as long as you're alive. And I think that what you said, there's so much wisdom there because we lead from our experiences, from who we are, from what we have cultivated in in those growth cycles that you're you're talking about And if you've not Dedicated time and energy to becoming the best version of yourself. If you don't know what you value, if you don't know who you are at the core, you're going to be tossed around like the waves in the sea, And then make those decisions based on who you are, your vision, your values, your mission, all of that together. What happens when you're leading an organization and you find out that your vision, your values, your mission, you're personally not aligned with the school district that you're leading or with the school that you're leading? What does that do with the leaders in that boat?

speaker-1: Well, that can be gut-wrenching as well. And I've actually experienced this. So here's the vulnerability part. Now it and it it is important because and one of the places where I was, again, all of my core beliefs were in place. And I was comfortable enough. This is a challenge as well, to know I could leave this position. I could. you know, find another place to go. this isn't right for me. And I actually wrote a chapter about this in a book that was produced by Rick Jetter and Jeter. And it was you know, things that administrators need to not do anymore. And my chapter was when it's time to go, it's time to go, cutting to the chase. Because there are some things where in a situation Under a board, you're working for these five people. Yes, our mind says I'm working for the thousands of students with all the educators, with all the support staff, but yet five people can make a decision. And the five people, without the support and the training and the governance training and the getting together, that's a challenge. So in this one location, there was a dysfunction. And I just have to call it out that there wasn't a governance system. There wasn't a structure of support. There wasn't trust that was being built between this role of superintendent, CEO, and the board, because they really had their own designs without going through a process. And again, it's one of those check twice before you leap. You know, is there a landing? And and sometimes we don't. And so after a while, you know, you have to kind of reflect and go, is my compass on point? And I doing the things that are really relevant to the students that are here and making a difference for in situation. I realized my compass was far off from where the direction was at the board to go. And when you then do that reflection piece of so if I changed and went their way, does that take me away from what my ethics say, the integrity says? My morals say any of that that causes now internal grief or design or that's not healthy. And I think that's the tough, tough choice that some people have to make. And I had to make one of those choices that I just am not gonna bend myself to the will of someone else when it doesn't match the direction that I know we should be going. and so, you know, I left that position. And it's a challenge and it feels very personal, but there's also a point of reflection where you go, No, it was the healthier thing for me. It was a healthy thing really for the the organization because something else needed to change. And in fact, a little bit more, over some time, the parents of that organization got more directly involved and said, No, we concur with the guy who left. We're going the wrong way. We need to change things. So on one hand, the betterment to the group of kids, it did occur. Yeah. And it wasn't with me right at the helm fighting anybody, because sometimes that fight is just meaningless.

speaker-0: And what I have learned, because I've been in a similar situation, Rob. And what I have learned is sometimes, depending on how you're wired, how God creates you, you have to, like you said, reflect on that. When stress raises, my natural tendency is to try to hold on to the rope tighter, to try to fix, to try to control. And what I had to do in that moment is I had to let go of the rope. Because not only do we have to deal as superintendents with boards, we have to deal with unions. We have to deal with, parent groups. There's a lot of different organizational groups that we have to navigate. And at some point, sometimes it is best for everybody involved to walk away. sometimes you can take an organization so far, but then your time there needs to end and you need to turn it over to somebody else to take it that next that next leg of the race.

speaker-1: Yeah. And it's a challenge because again, you know, our egos, we all have egos. And so we're like, well, wait, I'm so I didn't fix that. Yeah. But you can't fix everything, especially to the detriment of yourself personally. And so allowing it to change, allowing it to, you know, go where it may need to go so you can move to the next spot. Because guess what? There are so many other people who are going to value the support that we can bring. and so we forget about that. We forget to realize, you know, the people who smile back at us appreciated that. The people who said, I'm so glad you're here today appreciated us. So that you know, the ego can get healed.

speaker-0: It can get in the way. in education, and it's the same in in the space you're in now, doing consulting or speaking, coaching, all of those things that we do. leadership, it can get exhausting. Yeah. And so I'm curious for you, what are some of your non-negotiable habits that help you to sustain your clarity and your positive outlook?

speaker-1: Well, so one of the things that and actually my wife joins me almost every day, we get to the gym. We get to the gym. And I and I'm talking about forty-five minutes of elliptical and you know, twenty-five minutes of of light training, lifts a little bit of lifting. Even an old guy like me can do a little lifting, nothing too heavy, but smart lifting, right? And then some stretching. Really, the stretching is so key for me and my back and just taking the body. At its worth and and treating it with the respect it deserves. you know, for years it was and I coached a lot of baseball, coached a lot of soccer, did all those things. And I look at some of my pictures from being another 40 pounds bigger than I am now, going, my gosh, how did I get that guy around the field? I mean, I did, but now just wanting to be healthy and enjoying that part of it, also some downtime. You know, I've probably, and my wife kind of says, You've read more fun books and well. I call them fun books. She looks at my Tom Clancy books and goes, those don't look fun. But just fun for entertainment and to occupy my mind. So I've probably read more books this year than I have in the last 20 years, quite frankly, for fun, right? So that writing, drawing, kind of thinking up silly scenarios for the characters that I'm developing, and just really kind of engaging with people. it We get them so busy in our careers, and and I think this is for so many people, that they forget to actually engage with people. Maybe it's the guy that's coming to install the solar thing. Hey, how are you doing? How's your family? What's going on? Simple connections and it fulfills me. It really just adds more to the happiness to see other people happy. and so you know, we don't take the k the time sometimes. To really recognize those simple conversations, simple acquaintances really can fill us up as well. So, and again, family, just family. We've been so fortunate. I have one of my granddaughters here this last month, they'll be with us for another month and with our parents, and it just brings such joy to the house. My other son is coming in next month, and we're gonna be watching our grandson for you know, a week and a half and they're trusting us with them for that long. So you know that that kind of fun experience of seeing our children's children now. Yeah and just enjoying the happiness. I mean it's it's so beautiful to have those moments. and you know for a guy who sometimes thought I'm am I gonna have a family, you know, as a young man and now just to have this beautiful groups of people coming and staying with us. And they wanna be around us. So that's just so fulfilling.

speaker-0: I couldn't agree with you more. I mean, your children, spending time with your children and your grandchildren, that is what really fulfills me at this stage in my life. Absolutely.

speaker-1: Yeah.

speaker-0: And you know, Rob, we've talked about this wonderful career you've had, 38 years, and I'm sure you saw a lot of changes over 38 years in education. Some for the good, not so much for the good. But when you think about our current landscape of education, of leadership. What is currently fueling your hope for the future?

speaker-1: You know, there are some amazing, amazing educators that are out there doing just beautiful work. What really fuels my hope is I think when I see not just somebody naming a system like, we've got more MTSS or we've got more RTI, but when you actually see systems of support being effective in a school place where the teachers Really are empowering themselves through support of the administration, where they're including our classified groups of workers, our paraeducators, our custodians, the clerical team, our food service staff, our yard duty folks. When schools are doing it well, it's just a beautiful thing. and you know, I've I've moved recently, I'm a little bit more of in a rural area now, and the sense of community. That is really enveloped through the schools and the smaller community is so powerful to see. And so they aren't getting stuck in we have to do standards. We have to follow the regulations. I mean, yes, we do, but they're remembering the people involved, treating their children with respect, helping them learn and acquire skills through community, really. expanding opportunities and getting kids involved in learning in so many different ways now. you know, the the pros and the cons about phones, no phones, technology, no technology, AI, it it can get us dizzy. Yeah. When you get down to the essence of good teaching, artful teaching, empowered teaching, and teachers who are really recognizing the relationships as being essential. Not just the relationship with the children, but the relationship with each other, the relationship with administrators, the relationship with the parents, the relationship with the community. It really is all these different strands of relationships. When schools are doing it well, that's what gives me hope, that they don't get stuck in the trouble of the day. Because there's going to be more troubles of the day, you know, over the years. It's always gonna come. And, you know, again, I've been in schools where The superintendent or the somebody has said, Nope, we're gonna do direct instruction and here's your script to the teachers, and you're gonna go. And everybody's reading a script. And it's like, where did the art of teaching go? And it kind of took a union to rebel and go, This isn't artful for students or for us to change that. And so, yes, there's some things that come and go, but when people are really remembering the essence of learning. the you know my heart your heart let's do this together and grow wow powerful stuff can happen and that's that's refreshing to me that gives me hope

speaker-0: Yeah. And it's so true that it all starts with the heart. It starts with the relationships. And when that's done well, when you're caring and you're connecting, you can see wonderful things happening in schools. But we have to remember it starts with the heart. And no matter what else is going on, we've got to focus on building those relationships. That's what fosters resilience. And that's what gives hope that tomorrow can be better than today. That Helen Keller quote is alone we can do so little, together we can do so much. And if we can lean into that, anything is possible in our schools. So, Rob, as we're wrapping this this podcast episode up, I want to give you an opportunity to share a message with the listeners. what do you want to leave with our listeners who might be searching for hope and inspiration?

speaker-1: Well, you know, as a kid who and I I kind of say it this way, I was inoculated pretty early against some of the adverse childhood education or experiences that I was going to have. My family unit was together, my mom and dad were together. They really were focused on education as getting us into school. And I was the youngest of five. and so just lessons learned from them. Right, responsibility, respect for others, care for anybody who needs it because we're human beings. And losing my mom at the age of 13 to cancer, struggling through that, and then really over the next couple of years, losing my father to an emotional state where his life just crumbled. and so, really, as a 16-year-old lost child man who left home. And wasn't sure what I was gonna do. But by the time I kind of settled down and found a brother, and my brother kind of said, Okay, you know, he's an older brother, successful in his own right. But he said, You can stay here. But guess what? We're gonna reground you. Yeah, yeah, you can no more missing school. We're gonna give you some regulation. Here's the rules. Yes, you're gonna get a job. Yes, you're gonna pay me rent. Yes, you're gonna wear a tie when we go to dinner. Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes. So George's rules. And through that time with him, we focused and did a lot of talking on my own resilience at that moment because it was remembering some of the lessons and then figuring out where I fit. How do I care for people moving forward? And so up on my shoulder here is one of the big, big things that I always say let the lives of others, let the lives that we let others live or help others live be the measure of our success. It really isn't about what. I can do, look at me, but it's about what I can do for you. What I can do for you. So when we think about that from our educational perspective, is it having snacks in the back of the room so that you're not hungry? Is it having the pencils ready so we don't have to fight about the lost pencil? Is it it it's really kind of taking away so many different things that sometimes create anxiety in the classroom so that guess what? We can focus on the communication. On the relationship building, on the learning that we want to help you grow to so that kids can learn in peace. If we're able to do that, I think then we will find success wherever you are, right? Whether it's in a classroom, whether you're leading a school, whether you're leading multiple schools as a superintendent, or again, even running a business, right? I mean, it really is. If you're helping your workers find the success that they're able to have and be successful in helping you, the whole thing starts to grow together. So it really is about focusing on the success of others so that you're gonna feel it too. Quite frankly, you're gonna feel it too. and you know, just spreading that whole process of and I call it the sparkle and shine, right? Spread positive acts regarding kind, loving encounters and shine significantly help increase niceness everywhere. That's the the little children's book that I wrote over these and put out there his last couple of months. Sparkle and shine and my recipes for resilience are out there as well. So

speaker-0: I love that. I'm so sorry for your loss, but I do believe that sometimes those adversities, those are the bumps in our lives that we climb on. That is what helped you to become the man you are today. So none of that has been wasted. And thankfully you've had that relationship with your brother he gave you that foundation and he helped you to become the person that you are today. And I'm grateful for this conversation. So Rob, as we end today, tell us how we can get in contact with you. how can our listeners get in touch with you?

speaker-1: Absolutely. So I'm on pretty much all the social media is out there as at resiliencyguy. so I'm on LinkedIn, I'm on TikTok. you can find me at Instagram and Facebook. but you can also email me. I'm still one of those guys that responds to his own email. So resiliencyguy at gmail.com. I do have a blog that's out there, resiliencyguy.com, as well, where a lot of my writings are out there just for free for people. But You know, I'm starting to get a little bit more busy as the year after retirement can can pull us in a little bit. So, but that's a it's a good busy. It's a really good busy. So I'll be doing some work in Gallup, New Mexico for a group out there through NCCE, a little book story reading with them and messages of appreciation. so that's just happening in September. I'll be do presenting at the AXA personnel institute in September as well. So Just different places, but you can reach me through email. It's the best way to do it.

speaker-0: Awesome. Well, thank you today for sharing your story. I am grateful for this time that we've had together and I look forward to sharing this episode with the listeners.

speaker-1: Rob. Thank you so much, Brandy. What a pleasure to be here with you.

LWH Closing: That's a wrap for today's episode of Lead with Hope. ⁓ Remember, ⁓ the world needs your leadership and change starts with you. ⁓ Fuel your life with HOPE, embrace your purpose, and shine your light for others. ⁓ If this episode inspired you, I'd be so grateful if you could take a moment to give us a five-star rating and share it. ⁓ Every review helps spread HOPE ⁓ and empowers more leaders to rise. ⁓ Thanks for listening ⁓ and until next time, ⁓ keep leading with HOPE. ⁓