🎙️ Episode 76 | Juggling the Job of Leadership with Dr. Robert Thornell

1
00:00:06,740 --> 00:00:10,260
Welcome to Lead with Hope, the
podcast where we explore the

2
00:00:10,260 --> 00:00:14,500
power of hope, leadership, and
resilience in today's world.

3
00:00:14,940 --> 00:00:18,380
I'm Brandy Kelly, and each week
I will bring you stories,

4
00:00:18,620 --> 00:00:23,140
insights, and actionable advice
from leaders, innovators, and

5
00:00:23,140 --> 00:00:27,140
change makers who are using hope
as their compass to navigate

6
00:00:27,140 --> 00:00:31,660
challenges, create positive
impact, and inspire others to do

7
00:00:31,660 --> 00:00:34,640
the same.
Whether you're a seasoned leader

8
00:00:34,640 --> 00:00:39,280
or just beginning your journey,
this podcast is here to remind

9
00:00:39,280 --> 00:00:43,800
you that no matter the obstacle,
hope is the fuel that can drive

10
00:00:43,800 --> 00:00:47,960
transformation.
So, let's dive in and discover

11
00:00:48,160 --> 00:00:59,800
how you can lead with hope.
Hey, everybody.

12
00:00:59,800 --> 00:01:02,360
Welcome back to the Lead with
Hope podcast.

13
00:01:02,360 --> 00:01:06,520
I'm Brandy Kelly, your host, and
today I'm honored to have Doctor

14
00:01:06,600 --> 00:01:09,880
Rob Thornell.
He is a school leadership coach

15
00:01:10,280 --> 00:01:14,400
with the Center for Model
Schools and the author of Inside

16
00:01:14,400 --> 00:01:18,000
the Principal's Office and
Juggling the Job, both Amazon

17
00:01:18,000 --> 00:01:21,000
bestsellers.
With over 30 years in education,

18
00:01:21,000 --> 00:01:25,000
including roles as Principal and
Deputy Superintendent, he is

19
00:01:25,000 --> 00:01:28,480
passionate about mentoring
leaders and shaping the future

20
00:01:28,560 --> 00:01:30,800
of schools.
Welcome to the podcast, Rob.

21
00:01:31,640 --> 00:01:33,960
I think it makes me sound old
when you say over 30 years

22
00:01:33,960 --> 00:01:36,480
doesn't.
It you know what, it beats the

23
00:01:36,480 --> 00:01:37,760
alternative, right?
That's right.

24
00:01:38,120 --> 00:01:40,960
That's right.
So I love the first question

25
00:01:40,960 --> 00:01:43,680
that I get to ask people when
they come on my show.

26
00:01:43,680 --> 00:01:47,360
I love hearing about people's
stories from their voice, from

27
00:01:47,360 --> 00:01:49,920
their lived experience.
So let's start there.

28
00:01:50,000 --> 00:01:52,000
Tell us about your story.
Oh, my goodness.

29
00:01:53,040 --> 00:01:55,520
Well, my, my story for school, I
just, I always wanted to be a

30
00:01:55,520 --> 00:01:56,440
teacher.
For one thing.

31
00:01:56,440 --> 00:01:58,640
I always wanted to be a teacher.
And I always really dreamed of

32
00:01:58,640 --> 00:02:01,160
being in that kind of one
classroom for 30 years, that

33
00:02:01,160 --> 00:02:03,080
kids would come back and see me
and everything like that.

34
00:02:03,080 --> 00:02:06,800
And yeah, I think I ended up
getting into administration

35
00:02:07,080 --> 00:02:08,720
mostly because I can't keep my
mouth shut.

36
00:02:08,960 --> 00:02:13,160
And, and but no, I've been very
fortunate over over the course

37
00:02:13,160 --> 00:02:16,360
of my career to have people that
kind of tapped on my shoulder

38
00:02:16,360 --> 00:02:18,200
and said, hey, you ought to try
this, You ought to try this.

39
00:02:18,200 --> 00:02:20,800
And, and that's really kind of
my passion, what I hope to do to

40
00:02:20,800 --> 00:02:22,640
others and hopefully I have done
for others.

41
00:02:22,640 --> 00:02:27,160
But you know, I started out as
elementary principal and loved

42
00:02:27,160 --> 00:02:32,720
that job so much.
But then I also, I again got

43
00:02:32,720 --> 00:02:35,440
tapped on the shoulder, got
encouraged to go into the middle

44
00:02:35,440 --> 00:02:38,760
school world and boy, that was a
just a different opportunity.

45
00:02:38,760 --> 00:02:41,400
I mean it and I loved it.
I mean, I, I feel like that's

46
00:02:41,400 --> 00:02:44,680
kind of where I, I, I got to
blossom a little bit and do

47
00:02:44,680 --> 00:02:47,400
things and, and learn things as
an experienced administrator.

48
00:02:47,400 --> 00:02:51,480
And then, you know, in both of
those schools, I will say we're,

49
00:02:51,560 --> 00:02:54,920
we're title one schools.
And so I, I have kind of, kind

50
00:02:54,920 --> 00:02:58,840
of learned with that population
in mind of students and I've

51
00:02:58,840 --> 00:03:02,480
enjoyed that very much and, and
continue to enjoy working with

52
00:03:02,480 --> 00:03:04,560
kids of all different times and
that, you know, diverse

53
00:03:04,560 --> 00:03:07,040
students.
So that was it.

54
00:03:07,040 --> 00:03:09,520
And then I, you know, I went
into, again, got tapped on the

55
00:03:09,520 --> 00:03:11,680
shoulder a little bit by a
mentor of mine, Superintendent

56
00:03:11,680 --> 00:03:12,760
said, Hey, you ought to try
this.

57
00:03:12,760 --> 00:03:14,920
And so I went into curriculum
instruction at the central

58
00:03:14,920 --> 00:03:18,600
office level, kind of a large
suburban district outside of

59
00:03:18,760 --> 00:03:21,680
Dallas, Fort Worth.
And, you know, did a, did a

60
00:03:21,680 --> 00:03:24,520
little bit of that and a lot of
professional learning and

61
00:03:24,520 --> 00:03:26,600
curriculum stuff.
And then I went into it and

62
00:03:26,600 --> 00:03:28,360
moved, just moved up to
assistant Superintendent.

63
00:03:28,880 --> 00:03:32,920
And I think one of the things I
loved most about that was we

64
00:03:32,920 --> 00:03:36,680
were growing fast as a district.
And so there was a need to hire

65
00:03:36,680 --> 00:03:39,360
principals, train assistant
principals.

66
00:03:39,360 --> 00:03:41,760
You know, we've got to develop
our training program kind of an

67
00:03:41,760 --> 00:03:43,240
in house 1 to try to help
people.

68
00:03:43,680 --> 00:03:46,400
And, and that just was read in
my, my past and my dissertation

69
00:03:46,400 --> 00:03:48,080
was on mentoring first year
principals.

70
00:03:48,560 --> 00:03:50,600
And so again, that's my story is
how can we get these

71
00:03:50,600 --> 00:03:52,480
administrators to do better?
And so that's kind of what I've

72
00:03:52,480 --> 00:03:55,880
done.
And then I retired and, and have

73
00:03:55,880 --> 00:03:58,400
been working as a coach, you
know, for the last three or four

74
00:03:58,400 --> 00:04:01,640
years, just trying to help
people and gotten to be all over

75
00:04:01,640 --> 00:04:03,240
the country and see in different
schools.

76
00:04:03,240 --> 00:04:05,640
And that's just brought a whole
different perspective, I think

77
00:04:05,640 --> 00:04:09,560
to to what what I thought I knew
about schools and what I'm

78
00:04:09,560 --> 00:04:11,280
learning now.
So I learned as much from them

79
00:04:11,280 --> 00:04:14,680
as they do for me.
And I'm sure that's kind of my

80
00:04:14,680 --> 00:04:16,839
journey.
That's an amazing journey and

81
00:04:16,839 --> 00:04:21,120
I'm hearing that theme of
mentoring and just helping those

82
00:04:21,120 --> 00:04:24,920
new leaders grow kind of
permeate through and we're going

83
00:04:24,920 --> 00:04:28,720
to come back to that effort to
get to know you a little bit

84
00:04:28,720 --> 00:04:30,360
better.
I'm going to ask follow up

85
00:04:30,360 --> 00:04:34,040
question.
What is something in your life

86
00:04:34,040 --> 00:04:36,720
or leadership?
Some little small thing?

87
00:04:37,080 --> 00:04:40,840
I say that the simple things are
the big things, the small things

88
00:04:40,840 --> 00:04:43,680
are the big things.
So, you know, what are the

89
00:04:43,680 --> 00:04:46,120
little things that bring you joy
in life?

90
00:04:46,520 --> 00:04:53,080
Oh, in life, not just in life.
I think that, you know, it may

91
00:04:53,080 --> 00:04:57,560
sound funny, but my wife is an
elementary principal and at

92
00:04:57,560 --> 00:05:00,600
least a couple days a week, we
sit in our little room that we

93
00:05:00,600 --> 00:05:05,080
call our parlor and have a glass
of wine or something and, and

94
00:05:05,080 --> 00:05:08,120
just talk about school and, and,
and we, you know, and it's just,

95
00:05:08,520 --> 00:05:11,360
I know that it may, it may sound
fun to talk shop like that, but

96
00:05:11,360 --> 00:05:14,600
that's a relaxing time, I think
for both of us and something

97
00:05:14,600 --> 00:05:18,520
that, you know, that I really,
really enjoy nowadays.

98
00:05:18,920 --> 00:05:23,040
I think, I think the other thing
that I, I, I'm an avid reader

99
00:05:23,960 --> 00:05:27,400
and, and one of the things that
I think means a lot to me is not

100
00:05:27,400 --> 00:05:31,560
so much just the reading, but
it, it brings me joy when, when

101
00:05:31,560 --> 00:05:34,560
one of two things happens, one,
somebody recommends a book to me

102
00:05:35,960 --> 00:05:38,280
because I think it's, it's, it,
it just means, Hey, they thought

103
00:05:38,280 --> 00:05:40,600
about me or they thought I would
like that book and that's a

104
00:05:40,600 --> 00:05:42,320
connection.
And then I also the same thing.

105
00:05:42,320 --> 00:05:44,040
I love it when people ask me,
Hey, you have a book

106
00:05:44,040 --> 00:05:48,000
recommendation.
When I in my office at my, and

107
00:05:48,000 --> 00:05:50,640
before I retired, I had just,
you know, rows and rows of books

108
00:05:50,640 --> 00:05:53,120
and people would stop by and
say, Hey, I'm trying to learn

109
00:05:53,120 --> 00:05:55,120
this.
And so I, I don't know why, but

110
00:05:55,120 --> 00:05:56,360
that just comes to mind.
That's it.

111
00:05:56,360 --> 00:05:59,400
That's a joyful connection that
I feel like I make with people.

112
00:05:59,400 --> 00:06:00,720
It's just over books.
Yeah.

113
00:06:00,960 --> 00:06:03,880
Connection.
Both of those simple joys that

114
00:06:03,880 --> 00:06:06,680
you just talked about have
connection in common.

115
00:06:06,680 --> 00:06:10,120
So that's that's really cool.
And I don't know about you, but

116
00:06:10,120 --> 00:06:13,000
since I've become an author,
something that's opened up even

117
00:06:13,000 --> 00:06:15,320
more is having friends who have
written books.

118
00:06:15,320 --> 00:06:19,160
And I know we exchanged books
and just being able to share

119
00:06:19,160 --> 00:06:23,160
that with one another and share
our a little bit more our story

120
00:06:23,160 --> 00:06:24,960
and our journey.
The journey's fun.

121
00:06:25,360 --> 00:06:26,720
It is.
It's a lot of fun.

122
00:06:26,720 --> 00:06:30,760
So going back to that theme of
mentorship, you know, you've

123
00:06:30,760 --> 00:06:33,720
talked about serving as a
principal, as a district leader

124
00:06:33,720 --> 00:06:37,720
and now a leadership coach.
Do you have any stories along

125
00:06:37,720 --> 00:06:42,160
the way that you would be able
to share today that it really

126
00:06:42,160 --> 00:06:46,320
shaped the way you lead or the
work you're doing now?

127
00:06:47,280 --> 00:06:50,280
Oh man, I probably have, I had
probably have a million stories

128
00:06:50,280 --> 00:06:53,720
and, and I a lot come to mind.
I think.

129
00:06:53,760 --> 00:06:57,440
I think one of them that comes
to my mind is, you know, it

130
00:06:57,440 --> 00:07:00,360
takes a while even as a mentor
to realize not everybody's going

131
00:07:00,360 --> 00:07:04,600
to do it the way you do.
And I have a particular

132
00:07:04,600 --> 00:07:08,960
individual that I supervised
that I'll be honest with you,

133
00:07:11,040 --> 00:07:12,480
didn't necessarily connect right
away.

134
00:07:12,760 --> 00:07:15,240
And I, and I put that a lot on
me as I did.

135
00:07:15,240 --> 00:07:17,560
I was trying to make him
something that he wasn't.

136
00:07:18,880 --> 00:07:21,840
And, and I think that that I
learned a lot from that because

137
00:07:21,840 --> 00:07:28,480
he was very talented individual
and as a mentor and as a

138
00:07:28,480 --> 00:07:30,480
supervisor.
However, that's stepping back

139
00:07:30,560 --> 00:07:32,520
and knowing that everybody has
different styles and

140
00:07:32,520 --> 00:07:35,840
appreciating that and knowing
that my role could have been

141
00:07:35,840 --> 00:07:39,280
better served realizing that
sooner and going through that.

142
00:07:39,400 --> 00:07:42,520
And that's one that I kind of,
I, I still reach out to him or

143
00:07:42,520 --> 00:07:45,440
some contact, but sometimes I, I
have actually said that to him

144
00:07:45,440 --> 00:07:46,840
personally.
But I think that that's

145
00:07:46,840 --> 00:07:50,720
something that I try to keep in
mind now in my role is that, you

146
00:07:50,720 --> 00:07:54,000
know, that not everybody's a, a
ground peg and a square hole or

147
00:07:54,000 --> 00:07:57,760
whatever that is.
So, so that is one that that

148
00:07:57,760 --> 00:08:00,120
comes to my mind for sure.
I think that is realizing

149
00:08:00,120 --> 00:08:03,280
people's differences and their
strengths and go going forward

150
00:08:03,560 --> 00:08:07,040
with that.
And and so I, I, I do try to

151
00:08:07,040 --> 00:08:09,720
keep that in mind as a learning
learning tool for myself.

152
00:08:10,040 --> 00:08:12,200
Yeah.
And as a leader, our job is to

153
00:08:12,200 --> 00:08:15,080
get to know our people, to
connect with our people and to

154
00:08:15,080 --> 00:08:18,120
meet them where they're at.
It's it's about the service to

155
00:08:18,120 --> 00:08:21,440
the people that we're we're
leading in our organizations.

156
00:08:21,440 --> 00:08:27,520
And that's not always easy
because sometimes those people

157
00:08:27,520 --> 00:08:29,520
are saying you're doing hurtful
things.

158
00:08:29,520 --> 00:08:33,520
There's, there's a lot that we
carry with us in our stories

159
00:08:33,799 --> 00:08:36,000
depending on our lived
experience.

160
00:08:36,320 --> 00:08:40,440
And I think as a leader, just
going back to that mindset of

161
00:08:41,080 --> 00:08:44,280
what is it that they need?
Not what I need, but what they

162
00:08:44,280 --> 00:08:46,280
need.
And that's sometimes easier said

163
00:08:46,280 --> 00:08:49,000
than done.
I will say I do have a proud

164
00:08:49,000 --> 00:08:52,360
moment though.
I, one of the things when I was

165
00:08:52,360 --> 00:08:57,160
a, a fairly new deputy
Superintendent, I sat around, I,

166
00:08:57,160 --> 00:08:59,840
I remember this meeting vividly,
but I've sat around the table

167
00:08:59,840 --> 00:09:02,040
with, with my team and as you
will.

168
00:09:02,040 --> 00:09:04,280
And, and one of the things I
told them in that initial

169
00:09:04,280 --> 00:09:07,080
meeting was, you know, 2 years
from now, we're all sitting

170
00:09:07,080 --> 00:09:09,160
around here at the same table.
And I haven't done my job

171
00:09:09,720 --> 00:09:11,960
because you're too talented to
to be here.

172
00:09:11,960 --> 00:09:14,680
And, and I, I look back at that
and every single one of those

173
00:09:14,680 --> 00:09:17,360
people has moved on and, and
then promoted then, then better

174
00:09:18,000 --> 00:09:21,160
gone farther than I ever have
even imagined it and hoped for.

175
00:09:21,160 --> 00:09:23,400
And, and, but I hope that I
played a small piece of that.

176
00:09:24,120 --> 00:09:26,680
But I do I, I will say that was
always my mentality.

177
00:09:27,080 --> 00:09:29,440
You know you're you need to do
bigger and better things.

178
00:09:29,760 --> 00:09:32,360
Absolutely it is.
It's about growth and and making

179
00:09:32,360 --> 00:09:36,280
other people better.
It's of whatever we're doing.

180
00:09:36,360 --> 00:09:37,880
I love that.
That's amazing.

181
00:09:38,480 --> 00:09:43,000
Now both of your books highlight
some key principles.

182
00:09:43,120 --> 00:09:45,560
I think they both have 5.
Same five, yeah.

183
00:09:45,720 --> 00:09:49,720
The same 5 principles.
So, if you will, can you unpack

184
00:09:49,720 --> 00:09:54,480
those five principles briefly
and share with us why you chose

185
00:09:54,480 --> 00:09:58,000
those 5?
OK, yeah, I, I mean, and I don't

186
00:09:58,000 --> 00:09:59,960
think that there, you know, it's
not rocket sanded, right?

187
00:09:59,960 --> 00:10:02,720
There's so many, so much
literature out there around

188
00:10:02,880 --> 00:10:06,120
affected principles and whatnot.
But you know, when I started

189
00:10:06,120 --> 00:10:09,040
trying to package that and think
would I, would I, I viewed as a

190
00:10:09,040 --> 00:10:11,560
real successful principal, I
came up with five things that I

191
00:10:11,560 --> 00:10:13,840
think that they do.
And I think almost any of our

192
00:10:13,840 --> 00:10:16,880
activities fall under those.
You know, one of them is

193
00:10:16,880 --> 00:10:18,080
obviously instructional
leadership.

194
00:10:18,240 --> 00:10:22,240
You know, and I do feel like at
the end of the day, kids have to

195
00:10:22,240 --> 00:10:24,440
learn at your school.
I think that's a responsibility

196
00:10:24,440 --> 00:10:26,240
that you have.
You know, you give them, you

197
00:10:26,240 --> 00:10:28,760
give them that hope factor, you
give them, you believe in them

198
00:10:28,760 --> 00:10:30,240
and everything that goes with
that.

199
00:10:30,240 --> 00:10:33,800
But one of your responsibilities
is, is instructional leadership

200
00:10:33,800 --> 00:10:36,200
and, and I take into that
helping your teachers get

201
00:10:36,200 --> 00:10:39,240
better.
You know, I, I, I actually told

202
00:10:39,240 --> 00:10:41,520
a group yesterday, I was with a
group of principals I was with

203
00:10:41,520 --> 00:10:42,640
yesterday.
One of the things that just

204
00:10:42,640 --> 00:10:45,760
drives me nuts is when I hear a
principal say, well, I just hire

205
00:10:45,760 --> 00:10:47,040
good teachers and get out of
their way.

206
00:10:47,560 --> 00:10:51,800
I, I, I understand the
mentality, but I, I, I think

207
00:10:51,800 --> 00:10:54,040
that you're kind of shirking
your own responsibilities when

208
00:10:54,040 --> 00:10:57,520
you say that.
And, and so I, I again, so

209
00:10:57,520 --> 00:11:00,480
instructional, instructional
leadership, and that's something

210
00:11:00,480 --> 00:11:02,880
that, you know, I really value.
And I felt like that was a

211
00:11:02,880 --> 00:11:06,160
strength of mine.
But then the next one is servant

212
00:11:06,160 --> 00:11:07,760
leadership.
And I, and I think servant

213
00:11:07,760 --> 00:11:13,640
leadership is something that a
lot of times I talk about the IT

214
00:11:13,640 --> 00:11:15,440
factor with principles.
And I think that servant

215
00:11:15,440 --> 00:11:17,440
leadership piece is that, you
know, it kind of goes along even

216
00:11:17,440 --> 00:11:21,200
with your book a little bit if
you could, but it's that idea,

217
00:11:21,240 --> 00:11:23,560
you know, that one's the hardest
one to teach, right?

218
00:11:23,560 --> 00:11:27,360
I can teach you to be an
instructional leader, but that

219
00:11:27,360 --> 00:11:30,080
servant leadership, a lot of
that does become kind of just

220
00:11:30,080 --> 00:11:33,280
your interaction, your, your,
your, your personal skills and,

221
00:11:33,280 --> 00:11:35,360
and things of that.
And so, and I try to give some

222
00:11:35,360 --> 00:11:37,360
hints and some things because
even though I do think it's a

223
00:11:37,360 --> 00:11:40,280
natural ability, I, I think
there's some things you can

224
00:11:40,280 --> 00:11:43,120
learn to be intentional about.
And so we talked about, you

225
00:11:43,120 --> 00:11:44,840
know, I talk about that a lot,
you know, whether it's giving

226
00:11:44,840 --> 00:11:46,960
grace to people when they make
mistakes, because you know what,

227
00:11:46,960 --> 00:11:48,640
as a principal, you're going to
make mistakes and you're going

228
00:11:48,640 --> 00:11:52,600
to want grace from your staff.
So you know, and be, and to be

229
00:11:52,600 --> 00:11:55,320
generous with your time.
And I, I used to say be generous

230
00:11:55,320 --> 00:11:56,680
with your prayers, your
presence, your gifts and your

231
00:11:56,760 --> 00:11:58,280
service.
And I just say it real fast like

232
00:11:58,280 --> 00:11:59,280
that.
But that's that, you know, we

233
00:11:59,280 --> 00:12:00,680
want to be generous with those
things.

234
00:12:02,000 --> 00:12:04,720
And, and you know, and, and so
servant leadership is the second

235
00:12:04,720 --> 00:12:06,160
one.
And then, you know, go from

236
00:12:06,160 --> 00:12:07,640
there.
The third one is you, you got to

237
00:12:07,640 --> 00:12:09,600
be a learner.
You know, principals can't stop

238
00:12:09,600 --> 00:12:11,160
learning.
If we want to, we want to keep

239
00:12:11,160 --> 00:12:13,680
up with the times.
If we want to be innovative and

240
00:12:13,680 --> 00:12:16,320
try new things, we, we've got
to, we've got to be intentional

241
00:12:16,320 --> 00:12:18,400
about learning.
And, you know, so I try to give

242
00:12:18,400 --> 00:12:21,680
ideas about how to do that.
But I do think that I think that

243
00:12:21,680 --> 00:12:25,880
that sometimes we feel like we
get too busy to stop and and do

244
00:12:25,880 --> 00:12:28,120
some learning for ourselves.
And whether that's reading a

245
00:12:28,120 --> 00:12:30,960
book or an article or going to
see another school or whatever

246
00:12:30,960 --> 00:12:32,840
it is, there's a lot of a
million things you can do.

247
00:12:33,200 --> 00:12:35,960
But I think it's important to do
that and to model it for your

248
00:12:35,960 --> 00:12:38,000
staff.
Yeah, I said when I was a

249
00:12:38,000 --> 00:12:39,680
principal that I was the lead
learner.

250
00:12:39,920 --> 00:12:42,840
Yes, that's right, you.
Got to be the lead learner, you

251
00:12:42,840 --> 00:12:46,200
know, And I will tell you one of
the things that I held dear when

252
00:12:46,200 --> 00:12:48,600
I was an assistant principal, my
principal, and this was back in

253
00:12:48,600 --> 00:12:50,960
the old days before everything
was electronic because I'm old.

254
00:12:51,360 --> 00:12:53,160
But you know, you'd get all
those journals and stuff in the

255
00:12:53,160 --> 00:12:56,160
mail and they would just pile up
on the corner of the desk.

256
00:12:56,160 --> 00:12:59,040
And, and that my principal at
the time, she said, you know, I

257
00:12:59,040 --> 00:13:01,360
need you to spend an hour a week
where you shut the door and read

258
00:13:02,440 --> 00:13:04,320
and, and, and I was like, I
can't do that.

259
00:13:04,320 --> 00:13:06,040
I'm too busy.
You know, you do that, you know,

260
00:13:06,440 --> 00:13:08,400
and, and, and don't feel guilty
about it.

261
00:13:08,480 --> 00:13:12,520
And so I usually broke it up in
230 minute sections, but that

262
00:13:12,520 --> 00:13:15,720
stayed with me for the next 20
years of my career.

263
00:13:15,880 --> 00:13:17,880
And, and, and I think it really
helped.

264
00:13:17,880 --> 00:13:21,760
And I think it's OK to do that.
You know, then I then I talk a

265
00:13:21,760 --> 00:13:22,920
lot.
And one of the things that

266
00:13:22,920 --> 00:13:25,760
really hit me over COVID was
this idea of sharing your story.

267
00:13:25,760 --> 00:13:27,240
You've got to be a good
communicator.

268
00:13:27,520 --> 00:13:29,920
And the reason I bring up COVID
is, you know, one of the things

269
00:13:29,920 --> 00:13:33,480
that I found real quick is that
you could tell which principles

270
00:13:33,480 --> 00:13:37,680
were in tune with being able to
communicate electronically and

271
00:13:37,680 --> 00:13:40,480
do different things and share
their story and which ones had

272
00:13:40,480 --> 00:13:42,440
some catching up to do, you
know, when the whole world

273
00:13:42,440 --> 00:13:44,920
changed.
But beyond that, I just, I just

274
00:13:44,920 --> 00:13:47,160
think, you know, in our, in our,
this day and age of our

275
00:13:47,520 --> 00:13:49,880
education system is sharing the
story of your school is

276
00:13:49,880 --> 00:13:51,920
important.
And then you communicate with

277
00:13:51,920 --> 00:13:54,600
your, your staff.
You can communicate with your

278
00:13:54,600 --> 00:13:56,760
kids, but also just the
community as a whole, you know,

279
00:13:56,960 --> 00:14:00,200
and, and whether it, whether
you're a big social media person

280
00:14:00,200 --> 00:14:03,120
or not, what are your ways?
One of the things I share with

281
00:14:03,120 --> 00:14:04,200
them.
So just be consistent.

282
00:14:04,200 --> 00:14:08,000
You know, you know, my dad, he
used to get mad in the mornings

283
00:14:08,000 --> 00:14:10,880
when the newspaper was late
because he wanted to read it

284
00:14:10,880 --> 00:14:13,920
before he went to work, right.
You know, and, and so, hey, if I

285
00:14:13,920 --> 00:14:16,160
know that I'm getting something
from the principal every Monday,

286
00:14:16,160 --> 00:14:18,280
that's fine.
Just I, I, I don't have to hear

287
00:14:18,280 --> 00:14:20,160
from you every day.
But when it's sporadic and you

288
00:14:20,160 --> 00:14:22,600
don't know when you're getting,
I think that people need

289
00:14:22,600 --> 00:14:24,320
consistency with their
communication.

290
00:14:24,720 --> 00:14:26,600
They do.
And I, I think what played into

291
00:14:26,600 --> 00:14:31,040
that too, Rob, with COVID was
there was so much uncertainty

292
00:14:31,160 --> 00:14:39,000
around COVID and so much trauma.
And you know, people, they come

293
00:14:39,000 --> 00:14:42,520
to us with different
circumstances, They come to us

294
00:14:42,520 --> 00:14:48,360
with different past experiences.
And that consistency creates

295
00:14:48,360 --> 00:14:52,240
stability, which creates trust.
And that's what we need for

296
00:14:52,240 --> 00:14:56,040
relationships.
And when the uncertainty is

297
00:14:56,040 --> 00:14:58,800
higher and in our world today,
the uncertainty is higher,

298
00:14:59,040 --> 00:15:01,760
people need that hope.
They need that consistency which

299
00:15:01,760 --> 00:15:03,480
gives them hope for a better
future.

300
00:15:04,200 --> 00:15:07,400
And God forbid something that
does traumatic or tragic happen

301
00:15:07,400 --> 00:15:10,480
at your campus, you don't want
that to be the first letter that

302
00:15:10,480 --> 00:15:12,760
you've ever sent to your staff
or the first time that, you

303
00:15:12,760 --> 00:15:15,960
know, the first time the
community sees your face that

304
00:15:15,960 --> 00:15:19,640
that trust needs to be built
months and years before that.

305
00:15:19,640 --> 00:15:23,080
So that when something does
happen, you know, and I used to

306
00:15:23,080 --> 00:15:25,280
say, so they give you the
benefit of the doubt, right?

307
00:15:25,280 --> 00:15:28,200
If I trust somebody, then I hear
something bad about them, I'm

308
00:15:28,200 --> 00:15:30,480
going to at least give them the
benefit of the doubt and pause,

309
00:15:31,000 --> 00:15:32,960
whether it's about them
personally or about their school

310
00:15:32,960 --> 00:15:35,800
or whatnot.
So I just, you know, I just, and

311
00:15:35,800 --> 00:15:40,240
I see that because that is an
area that I don't think we

312
00:15:40,240 --> 00:15:43,160
really get trained enough.
The principals don't get trained

313
00:15:43,160 --> 00:15:45,880
and some people do it and it's
just part of what they they're,

314
00:15:45,880 --> 00:15:47,640
they're good at it and and
others don't.

315
00:15:47,640 --> 00:15:51,680
But I just think, you know,
that's, it's very, very

316
00:15:51,680 --> 00:15:53,480
important.
How do we share our story with

317
00:15:53,480 --> 00:15:56,120
our school And if for a variety
of reasons, right?

318
00:15:56,200 --> 00:16:00,200
And, and so that's one of my
pillars there.

319
00:16:00,480 --> 00:16:02,600
And then the last one, I kind of
combined two things.

320
00:16:02,600 --> 00:16:05,040
I combined celebrations and
reflections together.

321
00:16:05,440 --> 00:16:07,760
And the reason I do that, I say,
if you're, if you're celebrating

322
00:16:07,760 --> 00:16:09,920
something, that's an automatic
reflection because something

323
00:16:09,920 --> 00:16:12,560
happened.
But I, I just think sometimes

324
00:16:12,560 --> 00:16:16,000
it's important to pause and say,
you know, how are things going?

325
00:16:16,680 --> 00:16:18,400
What could, what could we have
done differently?

326
00:16:18,400 --> 00:16:20,600
You know, whether it's a big
initiative, whether it's just on

327
00:16:20,600 --> 00:16:22,720
a Friday afternoon, what did my
week look like?

328
00:16:23,880 --> 00:16:26,440
But I also think what you
celebrate and what is, is

329
00:16:26,440 --> 00:16:28,560
important because it
communicates to your staff and

330
00:16:28,560 --> 00:16:31,120
to your students and what you
think is important, you know,

331
00:16:31,120 --> 00:16:32,600
kind of going back to Share your
story.

332
00:16:32,600 --> 00:16:34,000
But, you know, I laugh all the
time.

333
00:16:34,000 --> 00:16:36,200
If the only thing I ever see on
your website or your social

334
00:16:36,200 --> 00:16:38,800
media is the athletics
department, then I don't know

335
00:16:38,800 --> 00:16:41,080
anything about your Fine Arts
and what, what message are you

336
00:16:41,080 --> 00:16:42,480
sending?
Not that that's a bad thing, but

337
00:16:42,680 --> 00:16:45,320
but that's my message is it's
got to be a little bit of

338
00:16:45,320 --> 00:16:47,800
everything.
And so that celebration

339
00:16:47,800 --> 00:16:49,480
reflection piece is really
important to me.

340
00:16:49,480 --> 00:16:52,000
I'm a journal guy.
And so I would have, I always

341
00:16:52,000 --> 00:16:55,720
had a journal going with me all
the time that I would reflect on

342
00:16:55,720 --> 00:16:58,920
and think about my and ideas.
And so I just think again, those

343
00:16:58,920 --> 00:17:04,160
five things kind of in a, in a
nutshell, can help a principal

344
00:17:04,160 --> 00:17:06,440
be more, more effective, you
know, and, and all of them can

345
00:17:06,440 --> 00:17:08,640
be done intentionally, right?
There's activities you can do

346
00:17:08,640 --> 00:17:12,000
for them that it, that can, that
can, you know, help shape your

347
00:17:12,000 --> 00:17:15,000
school culture and your campus.
Yeah, and I think every one of

348
00:17:15,000 --> 00:17:19,200
those things you can embed
within your your culture and

349
00:17:19,280 --> 00:17:24,319
it's going to help you to have a
stronger climate, a stronger

350
00:17:24,319 --> 00:17:28,560
culture, and it's going to build
that connection and that trust

351
00:17:28,560 --> 00:17:31,160
that we know is so important in
our schools.

352
00:17:31,760 --> 00:17:37,080
Those are amazing pillars.
I, I really like specifically if

353
00:17:37,080 --> 00:17:40,120
I had to pick one out of all of
them, I think the sharing your

354
00:17:40,120 --> 00:17:44,280
story would be my #1 because I
do think your story is so

355
00:17:44,280 --> 00:17:46,920
incredibly important.
But then my #2 would be the

356
00:17:46,920 --> 00:17:51,080
celebrations and reflections.
And I think that when I started,

357
00:17:51,080 --> 00:17:55,560
I've been in education for this
would would have been my 25th

358
00:17:55,560 --> 00:18:00,000
year in education.
And I think it's changed a

359
00:18:00,000 --> 00:18:01,960
little bit because of the
demands.

360
00:18:02,320 --> 00:18:06,400
They have increased so much in
our schools and our districts.

361
00:18:06,640 --> 00:18:12,720
But reflection comes for most
educators, in my experience, it

362
00:18:12,720 --> 00:18:15,480
is something that comes pretty
naturally.

363
00:18:15,800 --> 00:18:18,440
But as the demands have
increased, they don't feel like

364
00:18:18,440 --> 00:18:20,720
they have time.
And when they do some of the

365
00:18:20,720 --> 00:18:23,040
things that they know are going
to help them be better

366
00:18:23,040 --> 00:18:25,880
educators, they feel guilty
because they're not doing the

367
00:18:25,880 --> 00:18:28,080
tasks.
But I think the reflection

368
00:18:28,080 --> 00:18:30,680
really helps you to be a better
educator.

369
00:18:30,880 --> 00:18:32,880
It does.
And I mean, and I, and I try to

370
00:18:32,880 --> 00:18:35,600
even pass that down to teachers
like, let's stop.

371
00:18:35,600 --> 00:18:37,080
How did this, how did this unit
go?

372
00:18:37,080 --> 00:18:39,800
How did that lesson go?
And, and so that we don't teach

373
00:18:39,800 --> 00:18:41,680
it the same way we did last
time, you know, let's make it a

374
00:18:41,680 --> 00:18:44,240
little bit better.
And it just, it, it, it, it does

375
00:18:44,240 --> 00:18:46,960
come down to time, right?
Which is the whole premise of

376
00:18:46,960 --> 00:18:49,960
the juggling job, right?
You're juggling so many

377
00:18:49,960 --> 00:18:51,680
different things.
And how do you how do you do

378
00:18:51,680 --> 00:18:54,320
that effectively?
Yeah.

379
00:18:54,320 --> 00:18:59,240
And I think as a leader, it is
our responsibility to not just

380
00:18:59,240 --> 00:19:01,280
continue to add more to the
teachers plate.

381
00:19:01,280 --> 00:19:03,720
I mean, at some point we've got
to take something off before we

382
00:19:03,720 --> 00:19:06,360
put something on.
And that's easier said than

383
00:19:06,360 --> 00:19:08,400
done, like most things in
education.

384
00:19:08,720 --> 00:19:12,360
But I think we need to do a
better job of that in our

385
00:19:12,360 --> 00:19:17,040
schools and our districts
because teachers, leaders, all

386
00:19:17,040 --> 00:19:20,160
of our school staff, they're
just trying to juggle way, way

387
00:19:20,160 --> 00:19:23,920
more than is humanly possible.
I will tell you, I love that you

388
00:19:23,920 --> 00:19:27,080
picked those two because I think
most people tend to either go to

389
00:19:27,080 --> 00:19:29,400
instructional leadership or
servants leadership right away,

390
00:19:29,960 --> 00:19:32,040
which is natural because of the
job duties, right?

391
00:19:32,560 --> 00:19:34,880
And I think that the other
things that are not the have

392
00:19:34,880 --> 00:19:36,760
to's, those are what enhances
that.

393
00:19:36,760 --> 00:19:40,120
It makes it better.
But but but you got to recognize

394
00:19:40,120 --> 00:19:41,560
that.
So that's I appreciate you

395
00:19:41,560 --> 00:19:43,240
saying that.
That's that's that's neat.

396
00:19:43,360 --> 00:19:45,840
Most people don't.
Yeah, I recognize they're all

397
00:19:45,840 --> 00:19:47,800
important.
But right now in the season that

398
00:19:47,800 --> 00:19:51,440
I am in life, I think those two
things are just what really

399
00:19:51,440 --> 00:19:54,600
stick out to me.
And it's because the the

400
00:19:54,600 --> 00:19:57,800
connection part, the
relationship part is so focused

401
00:19:57,880 --> 00:20:03,800
in that area and we live in a
very connected.

402
00:20:04,760 --> 00:20:07,800
Technologically connected with
social media and all those

403
00:20:07,800 --> 00:20:11,880
things in a very connected
world, but it also a world where

404
00:20:11,880 --> 00:20:15,560
a lot of people are very lonely.
And you know, in my book I talk

405
00:20:15,560 --> 00:20:22,680
about building teacher efficacy,
self efficacy and using the four

406
00:20:22,680 --> 00:20:25,720
sources.
Bandura calls those the four

407
00:20:25,720 --> 00:20:30,680
sources of self efficacy and
it's mastery experiences.

408
00:20:30,760 --> 00:20:33,920
You know, we have to have a
belief that we can do things and

409
00:20:33,920 --> 00:20:37,160
then vicarious experiences and
that's what you're talking about

410
00:20:37,160 --> 00:20:40,320
with that reflection and then
talking to your colleague about

411
00:20:40,320 --> 00:20:44,480
how things have went and of
course the effective States and

412
00:20:44,480 --> 00:20:47,320
the social persuasion.
Those are the four ways that we

413
00:20:47,320 --> 00:20:51,080
build belief in our self and the
other people in our schools.

414
00:20:51,440 --> 00:20:55,720
And we have to build that time
in as leaders for people to

415
00:20:55,720 --> 00:20:59,560
reflect and to build that self
efficacy and collective teacher

416
00:20:59,560 --> 00:21:00,160
efficacy.
That's.

417
00:21:00,480 --> 00:21:04,800
Right, that's exactly right.
You know, I, John Dewey, I use

418
00:21:04,800 --> 00:21:06,920
this slide a lot.
John Dewey says we don't learn

419
00:21:06,920 --> 00:21:09,480
from experience, we learn from
reflecting on our experiences.

420
00:21:09,840 --> 00:21:11,840
Exactly and.
That's that's true, right?

421
00:21:12,200 --> 00:21:15,400
Yeah.
So with that said, what advice

422
00:21:15,520 --> 00:21:20,080
would you give new leaders
stepping into a role today for

423
00:21:20,080 --> 00:21:22,760
success?
You know I'm from Texas, right?

424
00:21:23,080 --> 00:21:26,320
So my first, my first rule of
advice is always this Don't take

425
00:21:26,320 --> 00:21:28,160
down offense until you know why
it was put up.

426
00:21:29,920 --> 00:21:34,200
That's great advice, yes.
But but short of that, you know,

427
00:21:34,240 --> 00:21:38,160
I, if I were, if I were coaching
a new principal, I would, I

428
00:21:38,160 --> 00:21:41,240
would get them to reflect and
think about what would you want

429
00:21:41,240 --> 00:21:43,360
to know if you're a new boss?
What would you want to know

430
00:21:43,360 --> 00:21:46,080
about your boss?
You know, and, and then share

431
00:21:46,080 --> 00:21:50,000
that, you know, share about
yourself, whatever, whatever

432
00:21:50,000 --> 00:21:52,840
that is.
I think that, you know, I know a

433
00:21:52,840 --> 00:21:58,080
mistake I made is my first year
as a principal was I didn't

434
00:21:58,080 --> 00:22:01,880
realize that what I said, what
became the law, right?

435
00:22:01,880 --> 00:22:04,800
It became policy.
I mean, I I knew that

436
00:22:04,800 --> 00:22:07,960
intellectually, but until you
feel it and experience it.

437
00:22:09,040 --> 00:22:13,320
And so a lot of times I'll tell
the story about, you know, the

438
00:22:13,320 --> 00:22:17,800
principal before me was a big
summer birthday.

439
00:22:17,800 --> 00:22:20,200
Maybe we hold these kids back,
especially the young boys in

440
00:22:20,200 --> 00:22:23,480
first grades.
And you know, I, I didn't really

441
00:22:23,480 --> 00:22:25,640
have a big opinion on it because
I had never dealt with that.

442
00:22:25,640 --> 00:22:28,280
I was like a fourth, fifth grade
teacher anyway.

443
00:22:28,280 --> 00:22:30,800
By the spring of my first year,
my first grade teachers, they

444
00:22:30,800 --> 00:22:32,600
were getting ready to hold like
20 kids back.

445
00:22:32,600 --> 00:22:34,800
And I'm like, we're not doing
this.

446
00:22:35,520 --> 00:22:38,320
And, but the same time I didn't
really know why we weren't doing

447
00:22:38,320 --> 00:22:39,680
it right.
I just felt like this was

448
00:22:39,800 --> 00:22:41,840
different.
And, and so again, that kind of

449
00:22:41,840 --> 00:22:43,920
goes back to kind of know,
getting to know your staff,

450
00:22:43,920 --> 00:22:45,960
getting to know the belief
system that they've been under

451
00:22:45,960 --> 00:22:52,280
and why and how that changes.
So I, I do think I, you know,

452
00:22:52,280 --> 00:22:53,680
some people will say, hey, don't
change.

453
00:22:53,680 --> 00:22:54,840
I'm not changing anything the
first year.

454
00:22:54,840 --> 00:22:55,920
I'm just going to listen and
learn.

455
00:22:55,920 --> 00:22:57,720
And I, and I tell people, you
can't say that.

456
00:22:57,800 --> 00:23:00,840
Don't, don't make that promise.
Don't, don't make that promise.

457
00:23:00,840 --> 00:23:02,960
I, I say, I hired you for a
reason.

458
00:23:02,960 --> 00:23:04,320
You're here to leave this
school.

459
00:23:04,320 --> 00:23:06,760
And so there are going to be
things now do it, do it with

460
00:23:06,760 --> 00:23:08,640
caution.
Don't, don't jump in and be too

461
00:23:08,640 --> 00:23:09,880
hardcore.
You got to get to know your

462
00:23:09,880 --> 00:23:12,680
people.
You got to get to know you, but

463
00:23:12,680 --> 00:23:14,360
don't promise that you're not
going to change anything.

464
00:23:14,520 --> 00:23:17,080
That, that.
And so those, those are kind of

465
00:23:17,080 --> 00:23:18,480
those things.
It's like, don't change things

466
00:23:18,480 --> 00:23:20,680
too quick, but don't promise
you're not going to change them.

467
00:23:20,680 --> 00:23:23,720
You're there for a reason.
So I guess that that's some of

468
00:23:23,720 --> 00:23:26,680
my, my biggest advice.
And then and then go, go from

469
00:23:26,680 --> 00:23:27,920
there.
You know, you got to kind of

470
00:23:28,360 --> 00:23:32,920
kind of learn those things.
I think, I think for a new

471
00:23:32,920 --> 00:23:35,120
principal, one of the other ones
I gives visibility.

472
00:23:36,200 --> 00:23:41,120
Be out there, be out there, be
out there both with your

473
00:23:41,120 --> 00:23:43,480
communication, social media and
everything, but be out there in

474
00:23:43,480 --> 00:23:45,760
the hallways and get to know the
kids and the teachers and the

475
00:23:45,760 --> 00:23:50,680
parents and and all of them.
You know, too many people, even

476
00:23:50,680 --> 00:23:52,760
though we all say that too many
people get stuck in their

477
00:23:52,760 --> 00:23:53,760
office.
They do.

478
00:23:53,840 --> 00:23:56,160
You've got to schedule it.
I mean, that's what worked for

479
00:23:56,160 --> 00:23:59,360
me, and everybody's different,
but I had to actually put it on

480
00:23:59,360 --> 00:24:02,640
my calendar, and if I didn't, it
didn't happen.

481
00:24:02,920 --> 00:24:06,320
Yep.
And and so be visible, yeah.

482
00:24:06,720 --> 00:24:09,120
And.
And again, to me, visibility is

483
00:24:09,640 --> 00:24:12,000
it is walking the halls and
doing that, but it's also again,

484
00:24:12,000 --> 00:24:14,880
visibility by sharing your
story, you know what, what is

485
00:24:14,880 --> 00:24:18,600
out there, you know however you
do it newsletter wise, there

486
00:24:18,600 --> 00:24:22,000
should be some.
Whatever your format is, let

487
00:24:22,000 --> 00:24:24,800
them know what you think.
And I, and again, I think that

488
00:24:25,080 --> 00:24:27,200
that helps the, your community
get to know you.

489
00:24:27,360 --> 00:24:29,560
What, what do you believe about
education, right?

490
00:24:29,560 --> 00:24:32,680
You're, you're sharing those
stories and those are, those are

491
00:24:32,680 --> 00:24:35,600
important things.
And so, and I think that's, that

492
00:24:35,600 --> 00:24:38,320
is a huge piece.
You know, when I, when I work, I

493
00:24:38,320 --> 00:24:40,040
get the opportunity sometimes to
work with aspiring

494
00:24:40,040 --> 00:24:43,640
administrators.
That piece gets missed in just

495
00:24:43,640 --> 00:24:46,280
our master's programs on how to
be a principal and we talk about

496
00:24:46,280 --> 00:24:49,080
instructional leadership.
We talk about this and that, but

497
00:24:49,080 --> 00:24:52,320
that visibility and that
communication piece gets missed.

498
00:24:52,800 --> 00:24:56,280
Yeah, Here in Illinois, when I
became a principal back in,

499
00:24:56,280 --> 00:25:01,600
let's see, that would have been
2012 was my first principal

500
00:25:01,600 --> 00:25:03,680
position.
There was no mentoring.

501
00:25:03,960 --> 00:25:06,680
It was just whatever the
district could provide.

502
00:25:06,680 --> 00:25:08,200
And I was in a small rural
district.

503
00:25:08,200 --> 00:25:11,400
It was my hometown where I grew
up, and I was super excited to

504
00:25:11,400 --> 00:25:13,880
be there.
It had kind of been a dream of

505
00:25:13,880 --> 00:25:17,160
mine.
But if I could do anything

506
00:25:17,160 --> 00:25:21,080
differently, if I could tell my
younger self two things to do,

507
00:25:21,120 --> 00:25:24,240
it would have been get to know
yourself better.

508
00:25:24,240 --> 00:25:27,560
That self-awareness piece, I've
done a lot of work on that over

509
00:25:27,560 --> 00:25:30,440
the years with the disk
assessment, Working Genius,

510
00:25:30,440 --> 00:25:34,480
Enneagram, values assessments.
Got to know yourself.

511
00:25:34,480 --> 00:25:37,120
You got to know who, what your
fears and your blind spots, your

512
00:25:37,120 --> 00:25:41,160
motivations are.
And then the other one is be

513
00:25:41,160 --> 00:25:44,840
intentional about getting to
know the people you serve

514
00:25:45,080 --> 00:25:48,520
because you can't identify the
needs in your school or your

515
00:25:48,520 --> 00:25:52,560
district, how to make those
teachers better, how to lead

516
00:25:52,560 --> 00:25:56,960
instructionally, how to lead as
a servant, how to share the

517
00:25:56,960 --> 00:26:00,480
school story if you don't know
your people.

518
00:26:00,840 --> 00:26:05,520
So those are two big things that
I think go along with what you

519
00:26:05,520 --> 00:26:08,560
are saying that I would tell my
younger self.

520
00:26:10,520 --> 00:26:12,440
Again, I was working with a
group of principals this week

521
00:26:12,440 --> 00:26:14,920
and one of the things I said is,
you know, a couple questions to

522
00:26:14,920 --> 00:26:17,560
ask your staff, ask yourself
about your staff is do you know,

523
00:26:17,880 --> 00:26:20,680
what are your aspirations and
how can I help you get there?

524
00:26:21,320 --> 00:26:23,320
And I said, you should be able
to answer that question about

525
00:26:23,320 --> 00:26:26,720
every staff member.
And, and it takes a little time

526
00:26:26,760 --> 00:26:29,720
to do that, but to get to know
them, you know, that's getting

527
00:26:29,720 --> 00:26:32,920
to know them past, Hey, what's
your spouse's name and what and

528
00:26:32,920 --> 00:26:35,680
how many kids do you have?
Those are important, but what do

529
00:26:35,680 --> 00:26:39,000
they really feel and believe?
What makes them tick?

530
00:26:40,200 --> 00:26:42,680
And then two additional
comments, Rob, that I would add

531
00:26:42,680 --> 00:26:46,200
to that is making sure that on a
regular basis you're telling

532
00:26:46,200 --> 00:26:51,960
your staff you matter or I care
about you because and I noticed

533
00:26:51,960 --> 00:26:53,160
that.
I noticed.

534
00:26:53,400 --> 00:26:55,440
That that you're putting in the
extra effort.

535
00:26:55,440 --> 00:26:59,160
I noticed that just letting them
know that you are noticing those

536
00:26:59,160 --> 00:27:02,320
little things when they're, you
know, when they're going a lot

537
00:27:02,440 --> 00:27:06,040
and beyond.
You mentioned books earlier, a

538
00:27:06,040 --> 00:27:08,360
book that really helps me with
my leadership style.

539
00:27:08,440 --> 00:27:10,400
You're going to laugh when I say
this was the five love

540
00:27:10,400 --> 00:27:15,200
languages, but we read it
together, right?

541
00:27:15,280 --> 00:27:18,480
And, and it's supposed to be in
its design, you know, for a

542
00:27:18,480 --> 00:27:21,160
marriage type thing.
But if you know that book, it

543
00:27:21,160 --> 00:27:24,640
talks about recognizing how
different people, you know, want

544
00:27:24,640 --> 00:27:27,720
to be heard and want to be felt.
And, and, and I, I learned that,

545
00:27:27,720 --> 00:27:31,240
you know, from anything from
some staff members, they want to

546
00:27:31,240 --> 00:27:34,720
be recognize publicly where
other staff members would rather

547
00:27:34,720 --> 00:27:37,960
that be private, you know, would
prefer a note from me or

548
00:27:37,960 --> 00:27:39,600
something.
And learning those types of

549
00:27:39,600 --> 00:27:41,960
things about your staff can go a
long way.

550
00:27:41,960 --> 00:27:43,680
Yeah.
Absolutely.

551
00:27:43,880 --> 00:27:48,400
Doctor Chapman has expanded his
his book offerings and he has

552
00:27:48,400 --> 00:27:52,520
one now for the workplace, 5
languages, 5 love languages for

553
00:27:52,520 --> 00:27:55,160
the workplace and then he has
one for children as well.

554
00:27:55,440 --> 00:28:00,360
So being a being a newer Nana,
I, I'm going to buy the one for

555
00:28:00,360 --> 00:28:03,240
children.
So I make that with my my big

556
00:28:03,360 --> 00:28:04,080
grandbabies.
It's.

557
00:28:04,480 --> 00:28:07,000
Great.
Yeah, that, yeah, that's.

558
00:28:07,840 --> 00:28:09,440
Fun.
So you said that you work a lot

559
00:28:09,440 --> 00:28:13,160
with school leaders and do some
coaching.

560
00:28:13,160 --> 00:28:17,320
Right now, as you are looking at
the landscape of education,

561
00:28:17,320 --> 00:28:21,200
specifically with the work that
you're doing now, you know, we

562
00:28:21,200 --> 00:28:25,320
hear a lot of stories that it
might make people feel hopeless

563
00:28:25,320 --> 00:28:28,000
about education.
What's giving you hope right

564
00:28:28,000 --> 00:28:31,240
now?
There's still so many great

565
00:28:31,240 --> 00:28:34,520
teachers out there, you know,
and, and, and there's, there's

566
00:28:34,520 --> 00:28:36,400
so many great schools trying to
do different things.

567
00:28:36,400 --> 00:28:41,680
I think one of, you know, having
the ability to be to, to really

568
00:28:41,680 --> 00:28:43,880
see all different parts of the
country in the last few years.

569
00:28:45,480 --> 00:28:48,760
It's amazing to me how different
schools are in different States

570
00:28:49,400 --> 00:28:52,320
and, and, and there's, there's,
there's good and bad with

571
00:28:52,320 --> 00:28:54,440
everything.
So that part, it gives me hope

572
00:28:54,440 --> 00:28:56,720
to see that those types of
things that, you know, you don't

573
00:28:57,240 --> 00:29:01,640
need a big giant fancy new
school to, to do those things.

574
00:29:01,640 --> 00:29:05,880
But you know, most teachers and
most principals love kids and I

575
00:29:05,880 --> 00:29:07,240
and I and I love that about
them.

576
00:29:07,360 --> 00:29:13,520
I think that that's it.
I think, I think two things that

577
00:29:13,520 --> 00:29:15,040
are really good.
One of the things that I hear

578
00:29:15,040 --> 00:29:17,640
all over country, no matter
where you are, is attendance is

579
00:29:17,640 --> 00:29:19,440
bad.
Like how do we get kids to come

580
00:29:19,440 --> 00:29:21,240
back to school and, and engage
in school?

581
00:29:21,760 --> 00:29:24,720
And so watching and, and seeing
the innovation and creative ways

582
00:29:24,720 --> 00:29:26,200
schools and teachers are trying
to do that.

583
00:29:26,200 --> 00:29:28,800
It's been fun to watch.
But I definitely think that is a

584
00:29:28,800 --> 00:29:30,560
piece there.
And I think it goes with

585
00:29:30,560 --> 00:29:32,560
everything we've been talking
about, you know, the passion for

586
00:29:32,560 --> 00:29:35,920
kids, the love of kids, the,
the, the care, the self efficacy

587
00:29:35,920 --> 00:29:40,160
of teachers just just making it
at home, right.

588
00:29:40,160 --> 00:29:42,000
And so I think that's it.
That's a big piece.

589
00:29:42,000 --> 00:29:46,480
I, I, I do worry.
I think that and I, and I don't

590
00:29:46,480 --> 00:29:51,480
say this because of my job, but
I just think in general, not

591
00:29:51,480 --> 00:29:54,600
every district is investing in
their principles the way I wish

592
00:29:54,600 --> 00:29:58,120
they would.
I was very, very fortunate as a

593
00:29:58,120 --> 00:30:02,760
principal to see receive what I
consider top notch training and

594
00:30:03,080 --> 00:30:07,840
I didn't even realize how top
notch it was until I saw what

595
00:30:07,840 --> 00:30:10,880
other districts and school
leaders don't get.

596
00:30:11,480 --> 00:30:16,440
And and so I think a district,
you know, it's like the you just

597
00:30:16,640 --> 00:30:19,000
OK, they're certified.
They were a great teacher.

598
00:30:19,000 --> 00:30:21,040
Now we're going to put them in
this role and let them go.

599
00:30:21,160 --> 00:30:22,760
And it's sink or swim for a lot
of them.

600
00:30:23,600 --> 00:30:28,240
And I think that's unfortunate.
You know, some of them are just

601
00:30:28,240 --> 00:30:30,240
craving help.
They're they're craving somebody

602
00:30:30,240 --> 00:30:34,560
to talk to and some ideas for,
you know, and others, others

603
00:30:34,560 --> 00:30:36,600
don't even know what they don't
know because they've never seen

604
00:30:36,600 --> 00:30:39,240
anything else, right.
You know, you mentioned your

605
00:30:39,240 --> 00:30:41,800
story.
I was at a small district, you

606
00:30:41,800 --> 00:30:45,160
know, where do I go for, for
help or ideas And, and it,

607
00:30:45,720 --> 00:30:48,920
there's too many tools out there
and the world can be a much

608
00:30:48,920 --> 00:30:52,720
smaller place if we allow it to
be to help, to help each other

609
00:30:52,720 --> 00:30:55,160
and go through that.
But you know, some but, but, but

610
00:30:55,160 --> 00:30:59,040
there's that I just, there's and
there's so many great things out

611
00:30:59,040 --> 00:31:01,720
there that principals could do
if they just could, right?

612
00:31:01,720 --> 00:31:04,400
But.
There are free resources.

613
00:31:04,400 --> 00:31:08,600
There are resources you can pay
for and I joined a network

614
00:31:08,600 --> 00:31:12,440
called Teach Better and they
have administrator masterminds

615
00:31:12,440 --> 00:31:15,080
where you can join.
It's free, there's no cost, it's

616
00:31:15,240 --> 00:31:18,840
across the country.
And then I was fortunate enough

617
00:31:18,840 --> 00:31:24,240
in my next district to have
coaching with an executive coach

618
00:31:24,280 --> 00:31:27,400
and then I had that until I till
I finished out and I still have

619
00:31:27,400 --> 00:31:30,000
coaching today.
That is something that I will

620
00:31:30,000 --> 00:31:34,080
consistently invest in for
myself because if you are the

621
00:31:34,080 --> 00:31:37,880
lead learner, if you are
interested in growing and

622
00:31:37,880 --> 00:31:40,520
becoming the best version of
yourself because none of us have

623
00:31:40,520 --> 00:31:44,920
arrived, not yet, then then
that's an investment that's

624
00:31:44,920 --> 00:31:47,200
worthwhile.
And you're modeling that for

625
00:31:47,200 --> 00:31:49,440
your people too.
I think it's it's really

626
00:31:49,440 --> 00:31:52,960
important to have coaching,
mentoring, those kinds of

627
00:31:52,960 --> 00:31:55,200
resources because the job's
hard.

628
00:31:55,720 --> 00:31:59,560
It is getting any easier?
It is, and so those are things,

629
00:31:59,560 --> 00:32:03,280
but it it's so much fun and
really there's so many good

630
00:32:03,280 --> 00:32:05,760
educators out there.
There absolutely are.

631
00:32:05,760 --> 00:32:09,080
I 100% agree with you on that.
Now, do you have any passion

632
00:32:09,080 --> 00:32:10,880
projects that you're working on
right now?

633
00:32:12,480 --> 00:32:15,920
Just survival.
Oh, man, I, I'm not, I actually

634
00:32:16,480 --> 00:32:19,400
there's a district in Illinois
that I work with quite a bit.

635
00:32:19,400 --> 00:32:22,120
Malenko Valley and the deputy
Superintendent and I, they're

636
00:32:22,120 --> 00:32:23,600
kind of working on a book
project.

637
00:32:23,920 --> 00:32:28,000
OK.
It's, it's around, as you know,

638
00:32:28,000 --> 00:32:29,960
in Illinois, it's around the
five essentials of affected

639
00:32:29,960 --> 00:32:32,400
schools.
They have a great story to tell.

640
00:32:32,400 --> 00:32:36,120
So I'm just trying to, trying to
help him tell that story, you

641
00:32:36,120 --> 00:32:39,120
know, and, and I've been part,
I've been fortunate to be part

642
00:32:39,120 --> 00:32:40,760
of the journey with them, with
working with some of their

643
00:32:40,760 --> 00:32:42,480
schools.
But really it started before me

644
00:32:42,480 --> 00:32:44,960
and it'll go on after me.
I'm just a piece of it.

645
00:32:44,960 --> 00:32:48,280
But so that's, that's one of the
projects I'm working on right

646
00:32:48,280 --> 00:32:51,040
now.
And then other than that, I, you

647
00:32:51,040 --> 00:32:53,520
know, I, I have a weekly, I, I
started kind of a weekly little

648
00:32:53,520 --> 00:32:56,560
newsletter this year and that
was fun.

649
00:32:56,560 --> 00:32:58,000
And that, that's actually a cute
story.

650
00:32:58,000 --> 00:33:00,600
I, you know, I wrote, I
published my juggling and job

651
00:33:00,600 --> 00:33:04,400
book in June.
And this summer, a principal

652
00:33:04,400 --> 00:33:07,680
that used to work for me sent me
a message and said she loved the

653
00:33:07,680 --> 00:33:09,000
book.
And she said, I've missed

654
00:33:09,000 --> 00:33:12,320
reading your weekly newsletters
because I used to do that, you

655
00:33:12,320 --> 00:33:15,240
know, and it just that that was,
that was all the encouragement I

656
00:33:15,240 --> 00:33:16,800
need to say, you know what?
I want to try that again.

657
00:33:16,800 --> 00:33:19,160
And so I've been doing it for,
you know, a couple months now, a

658
00:33:19,160 --> 00:33:20,640
few weeks.
And, you know, people read it

659
00:33:20,640 --> 00:33:23,080
and I've gotten gotten some,
some good feedback.

660
00:33:23,080 --> 00:33:25,160
You know, it's not not
widespread yet, but it's just,

661
00:33:25,160 --> 00:33:27,440
it's fun to do.
But I think going back to the

662
00:33:27,440 --> 00:33:29,320
lead learner, it keeps me on
base.

663
00:33:30,000 --> 00:33:31,320
I've got to have something
ready, right?

664
00:33:32,240 --> 00:33:34,760
That consistency thing every
Monday, it's going to go out.

665
00:33:34,760 --> 00:33:38,240
So I've got to do something.
And I think that that that's

666
00:33:38,240 --> 00:33:40,680
kind of reinvigorated me a
little bit this week.

667
00:33:40,680 --> 00:33:42,640
You know, I'm not waiting for
something to happen.

668
00:33:42,640 --> 00:33:43,800
I'm going to go out and do it
myself.

669
00:33:44,320 --> 00:33:46,640
Right.
And I think that, you know, that

670
00:33:46,640 --> 00:33:51,800
writing process for some of us,
it really helps to keep us fresh

671
00:33:51,800 --> 00:33:55,160
and it encourages us to do the
research and, you know, continue

672
00:33:55,160 --> 00:33:57,360
to invest in ourselves as a lead
learner.

673
00:33:58,160 --> 00:34:00,440
My, my newsletter goes out on
Mondays as well.

674
00:34:00,440 --> 00:34:03,040
So Monday at 10:00, every Monday
at 10:00.

675
00:34:03,040 --> 00:34:07,080
I'm on things and and consistent
with that and you, you never

676
00:34:07,080 --> 00:34:11,320
know who you're going to impact
with newsletter your story.

677
00:34:11,679 --> 00:34:14,920
And I just want to encourage
everybody to Share your story

678
00:34:14,920 --> 00:34:19,199
because it matters important and
somebody may need to hear your

679
00:34:19,199 --> 00:34:22,760
story so that they can take that
next step towards becoming the

680
00:34:22,760 --> 00:34:27,239
best version of themselves.
If somebody wants to get a hold

681
00:34:27,239 --> 00:34:29,239
of you, how would they connect
with you?

682
00:34:30,400 --> 00:34:33,760
I'm pretty easy to find.
I mean, my e-mail is

683
00:34:33,760 --> 00:34:37,239
justrobertthornelltx@gmail.com
so that's easy enough.

684
00:34:37,239 --> 00:34:40,920
But I I'm pretty active on
Twitter and LinkedIn.

685
00:34:41,040 --> 00:34:43,960
I do some on Instagram too.
But those, those, either one of

686
00:34:43,960 --> 00:34:48,440
those, it's at Thornell 5.
And then you can go from there.

687
00:34:48,480 --> 00:34:51,080
And if you wanted to find
juggling the job, my newsletter

688
00:34:51,080 --> 00:34:52,920
goes out and you can find that
pretty easy too.

689
00:34:53,520 --> 00:34:55,360
And so I.
Know that was detailed enough,

690
00:34:55,360 --> 00:34:57,880
but that is.
Both of your books are on

691
00:34:57,880 --> 00:35:00,080
Amazon.
Yes, they are inside the

692
00:35:00,080 --> 00:35:02,040
principal's office and juggling
the job.

693
00:35:02,920 --> 00:35:05,280
Say that one more time.
Inside the principal's office

694
00:35:05,280 --> 00:35:07,080
and juggling the job are both on
Amazon, so.

695
00:35:07,680 --> 00:35:12,360
And I will add in show notes a
link to your books.

696
00:35:12,600 --> 00:35:14,600
I really appreciate you coming
on the show.

697
00:35:14,600 --> 00:35:17,040
Today, sorry it was such a hard
and so hard to connect.

698
00:35:17,480 --> 00:35:20,200
We we persevered.
We persevered and we made it

699
00:35:20,200 --> 00:35:21,080
work.
Yep.

700
00:35:21,400 --> 00:35:22,960
All right.
Well, thank you very much.

701
00:35:24,360 --> 00:35:27,080
Thanks for tuning in to Lead
with Hope, where we share

702
00:35:27,080 --> 00:35:31,560
stories and strategies to help
you rise, lead, and redefine

703
00:35:31,560 --> 00:35:34,920
what's possible.
If today's episode inspired you,

704
00:35:35,360 --> 00:35:39,160
please take a moment to like,
subscribe, and leave a review.

705
00:35:39,640 --> 00:35:43,160
Your support helps us reach more
leaders like you who are ready

706
00:35:43,160 --> 00:35:46,240
to lead with heart, purpose, and
resilience.

707
00:35:47,000 --> 00:35:51,520
Don't forget to visit
sparkhopeedu.com for resources,

708
00:35:52,120 --> 00:35:56,400
upcoming events, and tools to
help you build a culture of hope

709
00:35:56,520 --> 00:36:00,240
in your life and leadership.
We're so grateful to be part of

710
00:36:00,240 --> 00:36:03,440
your journey.
Until next time, keep leading

711
00:36:03,440 --> 00:36:03,920
with hope.