Episode 106 | The Secret to Speaking So People Actually Listen with David Swihart

LWH Closing: That's a wrap for today's episode of Lead with Hope. Remember, the world needs your leadership and change starts with you. your life with HOPE, embrace purpose, and shine your light for others. ⁓ If episode inspired you, I'd be so grateful if you could take a moment to give us a five-star rating and share it. ⁓

Brandi Kelly: Let's pause for just a moment because I want to tell you about a partner who truly aligns with the heart of this podcast, Convissary. Here on Lead with Hope, we talk a lot about clarity, clarity of purpose, clarity of voice, and clarity of direction. And that's exactly where Convissary comes in. They help leaders, educators, and change makers uncover the story behind their work and share it in a way that feels honest, meaningful, Before we get started, I want to thank our legacy partner, Craig Williams, founder of Convissary. As FarCope, we believe story matters because story shapes how we lead, how we connect, and how we show up in the world. Convissary helps authors and leaders bring clarity to their story and confidence to their voice so that their brand truly reflects who they are. You can learn more about their work by visiting the link in today's show notes.

Dr. Brandi Kelly: What does it take to lead with purpose when life feels heavy, leadership feels demanding and your message is still unfolding? Whether you're a pastor, an educator or an entrepreneur, the way you lead starts with what you carry on the inside. Welcome to the Lead with Hope podcast where faith, leadership and real life come together. We have honest, practical conversations and this is a space

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Brandi Kelly: or on the Spark Hope website. Thank you, Convissary, for supporting the Lead with Hope podcast. and deeply aligned with who they are. If you've ever felt the nudge to write a book, refine your message, or build a brand that actually reflects your values, not just your resume, Conversary doesn't rush you or box you in. They walk alongside you, helping you shape your story with intention and integrity.

Dr. Brandi Kelly: where hope is more than a feeling. It becomes a leadership strategy that shapes how you think, show up, and lead in every area of your life. episode is designed to help you move from pressure to clarity and from clarity into purpose so that you can lead yourself and others with intention, and lasting results. Today, my guest is David Swiehart. He is a pastor, a coach, a speaking trainer, an entrepreneur, and a nonprofit executive director. I want to just turn the floor over to you. I want you to tell us ⁓ a bit more about yourself.

Brandi Kelly: A big thank you to Craig Williams and Convissary for being a legacy sponsor of this podcast And for investing in stories that matter because when we share our stories with clarity and hope, real change happens.

David Swihart: Absolutely, Brandy, thanks so much for having me today. I love your podcast, love what you've been doing and just so thrilled to partner with you here today. I've been a pastor for, gosh, 20 plus years now, starting ⁓ two, so I guess I'll have to do the math, 24 years. in between all of that, I've worked with all kinds of different groups. done ⁓ with adults with mental disabilities. I've worked with youth and teenagers. I've worked with inner city youth. I've worked with the homeless at a ⁓ day center. ⁓ And all of that has really brought me together and just understanding people and just seeing that every person needs exactly what you're talking about. They need that hope. And my journey has brought me into that place of realizing so many people have a story. So many people have an incredible message that they've been living and they don't realize the power of their story. And so that's why the speaking training is so a part of me now ⁓ I want to ⁓ people bring their story to the world. especially the faith-based stories. I mean, love working with pastors. I love working with authors. I love working with speakers to help them just hone that message, get it into that place where they can really share their story and bring meaning and hope into the world because our stories resonate with the right people.

Dr. Brandi Kelly: 100 % agree with you on that. And you know, in your work with leaders and authors as you're shaping their message, talk to us a little bit about how you help someone take pain from their life experience and turn it into a message of purpose that can serve other people.

David Swihart: Absolutely. Well, I like to use the concept of wound. Now it's something we learned in coaching training, but it's something that I really love the concept of. ⁓ I touch a wound and you go, ouch, that still hurts, it's not healed yet. And a lot of people speak and write out of those pain points when they have not found healing yet. They're still looking for healing and writing can be very cathartic, telling your story can be very cathartic, but in order to really help people, you have to do the hard work of dealing with that pain and that wound. And so I always tell people the first thing they have to do is work with a counselor, work with a therapist, work through processes. I mean, if that's a 12-step process, if that's a trauma process of some form, they have to work through that first. And then once they've worked through that, because when I touch the wound and they go, let me tell you about that scar, now they're ready. Because what happens a lot of times with a lot of speakers I've worked with, is the pain is still so real, the person or people who've hurt them is still so real, that they have to work through forgiveness models. They have to work through the healing journey and they are still in some way trying to get back at the person who hurt them. And you've got to take away that vindictive piece because you can't help people from a vindictive spot. You can't help people from a place of unforgiveness. So when I work with authors and people who've got stories, and again, it could be the worst and worst of traumas that we could possibly imagine or talk about all the way through just light and things that happened to all of us. places where our parents neglected us slightly or didn't do exactly what we were expecting or hoping for. And so I work with my authors and speakers wherever they are in that journey and I help them think through how do you tell this story in a way that honors yourself, honors the people in your life around you, honors your audience. Because for example, if you have someone who was abused in any way, I mean those are always terrible stories, I hate. any form of abuse, mean, likes those things? mean, ⁓ be honest. But whenever I work with someone who's been a victim of abuse, I make sure ⁓ they understand their story could trigger people. They could trigger secondary trauma. ⁓ it's one of those areas where I work very intentionally and say, how many details do we need to work through here? How much of this story do you need to tell? Because you trigger your audience, you've lost your audience. And it's a very important piece. And so when I work with authors, I really work through the story, help them figure out how to tell it, how to keep away from re-traumatizing or trauma or giving secondary trauma because there's just stories that can't be told. there's stories that have to be told very carefully and very sensitively. And have to be told in a way that you get permission from the audience to tell them as well.

Dr. Brandi Kelly: There's so much wisdom in that, David. know, people don't want to see your wounds. They want to hear about your scars, right? We've all heard that ⁓

David Swihart: Mm-hmm.

Dr. Brandi Kelly: Now, if somebody has done that, they have worked through their pain and they're ready to craft their story. There's a lot of frameworks out there. Do you have a model or a framework that you recommend that speakers use?

David Swihart: Well, I'm a very custom fit person because as I've developed my own speaking journey, I mean, I really didn't ever want to be a speaker. I mean, that's kind of a funny part of me. mean, God's kind of kept me in a place ⁓ learn and grow. And so everything I've learned ⁓ been through classroom, through self-learning, through reading, through practice, through ⁓ of mistakes and issues and ⁓ moments. And so ⁓ I've learned is one size doesn't fit all. I mean, I wish there was a model that could just say, okay, Brandy, here's exactly how you do it. But the thing is, it's so custom to the audience, it's so custom to the speaker because we all think differently, we all feel differently. And everything from the educational speaker to the humorous speaker to the, I mean, there's just so many different ways that we can speak. And so I like to work with each speaker with where they are and stretch them into some of those areas. mean, if you're not a humorous person, don't try to force humor into your speech. But there's ways to tell a story that will bring some humor into the room. There's ways to lift the mood and lower the mood. There's ways to bring emotion in and take emotion out. so when I work with a speaker, I really try to feel out who they are and how they're going to present. ⁓ then what I do is I really help them plan out from a logic standpoint, emotional standpoint, a flow standpoint, to get to where they wanna go. Because not every speaker has the same purpose. Some people are just wanting to get on stages and speak. They don't wanna sell things, they don't want to develop a course, they don't want to do anything more than be on a stage and talk to people, share their story. And then there's people who wanna do all those other things. They wanna sell they wanna sell courses, they want to work with people one-on-one. and everything in between. so I try to work with my speakers right where they are and not try to make them something that they're not. And that's always my goal is to help them. And so my basic process is this. First, we sit and we just work on planning the speech. What needs to happen in it? What are your expertise points? What are the things that you want to accomplish in this speech? mean, ⁓ you had a conversation with someone for five or 10 minutes, what is the one or two pieces of wisdom you would. want to make sure they walked away with if it was just the only time you're going to meet with them. Those are the things I love to get into a speech because we have to plan those things, we have to think through those things. Well then once we've got those things planned we start preparing we start preparing and ⁓ the speech together. Well what are my main body points? What are the stories that go with those? What are the things that are going to help structure that? What are my nuggets I'm going to be able to give those one or two sentence phrases that people are going to remember, hang their hat on ⁓ and away from my speech? Once you've got those bullet points, then you write the conclusion you get the conclusion written. So if it's called action is to do something specific, to take an action, if it's to buy something from you, if it's enrolled in your course, mean, whatever that is, we figure out what that is and how they can do that, giving them, of course, the proof and things that go with that. ⁓ all of that's done, I take them back to the introduction and say, okay, how are we gonna get them into this speech? Because a lot of people start with the introduction and that actually throws a lot of people off. They don't know how to get it started. And so I have people write the body and the conclusion first and then figure out how are we gonna get the audience bought into this speech? How are we gonna get them into this? And so the planning and preparing stage go back and forth and we get that, a lot of that done. Well, then we walk into a cycle of practice and present. And practice is getting all the words, the phrases, the ways you're gonna frame and tell the stories and just doing that on your own, doing that with your family and friends. I mean, the last speech I prepared I did with my daughter and my son. My daughter's 22, my son's 14, and they gave me great feedback because they've listened to me speak for so long. They said, dad, you need to pause there. Dad, you're going too fast there. Dad, you're, but that's the feedback we all need as speakers to know how to do that. And so practicing and presenting, then you find other groups, small groups at church, small friend circles, chamber of commerce's, depending on your area, rotary clubs and other small clubs like that. They love to have speakers come in. It's a great place to hone your speech, see how people respond to it, see how the humor works or if it doesn't, see how all those things work and you keep working through that process and then you go back to the prepare and plan as you get through a speech and you go back and you practice and present it again and keep honing and honing and honing to the point where it's not a perfect word but it's performed. Because when you can perform your speech and that's not taking away from all the work you've done to it,

Dr. Brandi Kelly: Right.

David Swihart: but it's a second nature. It's become so familiar to you. You can get up on stage at a moment's notice and give the speech and engage with the audience in a way that they feel it's the first time they've ever heard it. And that's the goal.

Dr. Brandi Kelly: you said the goal is to perform the speech and engage with the because this speech yeah, it's your story, but it's not about you You are adding value to the audience that you are delivering this speech to so we really have to Craft it and perform it in such a way that engaging the audience and we're adding value to their life to their leadership

David Swihart: Mm-hmm. Yep.

Dr. Brandi Kelly: whatever that message. ⁓ I talk about the fact that I speak and I coach, right? ⁓ And when I tell somebody I ⁓ speak, a lot of people, they get that look on their face. I public is ⁓ one of the that most people fear.

David Swihart: Mm-hmm.

Dr. Brandi Kelly: They have no desire to get in front of an audience and to speak. And so there's some mindset shifts are gonna be required in order for somebody to get really good at speaking. Can you talk a little bit about some of the mindset tricks that you help your speakers work through?

David Swihart: Well, yeah, I do an entire webinar on this because it is such a huge issue for a lot of people. And I always tell people, the issue is, is you've got some ⁓ or younger version of yourself who has defined your beliefs about speaking. Okay? Because most of us, the first time we spoke was in school. And lot of us has had a ⁓ peer said something to us, a teacher who said something to us, someone along the way that said, you're not really good at this or you could have done better. and it created a feeling within us that made it, I don't ever wanna do this again. And that version of us is sitting inside of us telling us that even today as adults. ⁓ we have to go back and deal with that because we're no longer sitting in ⁓ room full of peers who are gonna make fun of us, who are going to ridicule us, who are gonna try to embarrass us and all those emotions go around it. ⁓ those are very strong emotions that we have to recognize and identify we're in the speaking world. when we get up on stage, we have all of these thoughts in our head about ⁓ we are, how ⁓ our message is or isn't, and we have imposter that will pop into that ⁓ of, belong here, I don't have anything to say. And really, I wanna counter that with this thought for your audience is you have a message that you have been living and God has ⁓ been preparing you. ⁓ So you to speak, you need to say, things that God has done in your life because you do not know how those are going to impact with other people. And God may have been allowing you to go through all these things, find healing through all these things so you can help the next person or even a group of people or even a huge stadium of people work through the very same thing. And so your message isn't so important. That's why I encourage them to work with someone like myself or other speaking coaches who can actually help them see how powerful their message is and their story is. But then it's also understanding the difference in the audience. A bunch of teenagers, yeah, that's a tough crowd. And for those who might be speaking to teenagers in this group, they need you as a grown teenager, someone who's made it through those years, to speak confidently and fully into their lives. But all of us who are grown teenagers also are sitting in the audience because most of the people who walk in the audience are no longer sitting there going, I wonder if I can embarrass this speaker. They're sitting there when they walk into the room.

Dr. Brandi Kelly: Yeah. All right.

David Swihart: And if you're speaker who has some anxiety, want you to take this idea. When they walk in that room, they are hoping, they are praying, they are desiring that they will get something out of what you have to say. They want what you have. They don't even know necessarily they need it, but they want it. And when the audience is walking in, they're cheering you on. They want you to succeed. mean, if you ever watch some of the TED Talks, mean, some of the speakers who are the most nervous, the audience comes around them and they'll cheer them on. They will support them verbally with applause. They want them to succeed on that stage. And that's true of most audiences today. Very few audiences are going to be sitting there looking to find a way to poke at you or make fun of you. And I've found for a lot of my speakers, just those two little things, believing in their message and what they've got to say and knowing the audience wants to hear it are two of the most powerful pieces of overcoming that. Now, I've got dozens of other strategies of how to help with that and how to make that happen, but those two things are two of the biggest mindset shifts that I find. And the only other, and the biggest strategy I would give people is practice, practice, practice, practice, practice. You can't say it enough. I mean, my last speech, I mean, I can get up and speak at a very high level off the cuff. I mean, I've developed that skill very heavily. My last speech that I prepared for a stage for a keynote, I practiced over 30 times. And for me that is a lot, but I can tell you the difference between a speech that I've prepared five times or practiced five times, 10 times, 20 times and 30 times. Because it gets tighter, it gets better, it gets honed, gets, just everything gets so much better around the whole speech. And so, you know, that, and that helps with the nerves too because I knew every of that speech exactly, I was going with every piece of it and I knew exactly where everything was gonna happen.

Dr. Brandi Kelly: And when you put in those reps, ⁓ discipline, It takes that consistent effort and it might only be an hour a day to get in those reps, but it's important that you're disciplined and that you're showing up consistently to hone the craft because it is, it's a skill. And ⁓ of are more gifted at it than others, but we can all learn it and we can all improve this craft of speaking.

David Swihart: Mm-hmm. Yes. Yes. Mm-hmm.

Dr. Brandi Kelly: if we're willing to put in the reps.

David Swihart: Absolutely, and I like to use two words within the scope of that, what you just said, art and craft. The art is that natural ability that some people just have to get up and say things the right way. mean, it can be taught, but there is an art to it. And ⁓ the ability to get up and communicate and to say things, the voice, the way you use the voice, to tell a story, there's that. But the craft is just as important knowing how to put all those things together, because I've also heard a lot of people who have the natural ability who never put the work into the speech. So they say a lot of things, but they don't ever say things that need to be said. And so the craft is the ability to put a good speech together, to know how flow works through a speech, to know how the logic goes through, how the emotion goes through, how each story ties in with the point and how each point ties in with the story, how every call to action and every application point ties in with the speech as a whole. and how it moves them from point A to point B to point C to point D to point E to the conclusion. I mean, to know how all of those things fit together. I mean, there's a craft to that. And I mean, I can help on both sides. I can help with the craft on the one side of let's get a great speech written, but then let's help you figure out how to deliver it well. How do I pause? How do I emphasize? How do I use my voice? How do I take my voice and... and vary it so that it works for my speech. When I get soft, when do I get loud, when do I use various tones to make it make it more intentional.

Dr. Brandi Kelly: you and met through the Maxwell group, ⁓ both Maxwell coaches. And ⁓ one the that John Maxwell does almost every time, if not time that he gives up to give a speech is he ⁓ introduces himself and he I'm your friend, John. There are some very specific habits that you can pick up ⁓ if you watch John, you listen to John shares them.

David Swihart: Mm-hmm.

Dr. Brandi Kelly: And you know, one of those is, as I said, he connects with the audience. He lets them know that he cares about them and that he is their friend. He consistently reads ⁓ what he's read and he uses that material to build his speeches. Are there other habits that you ⁓ be able to point out today for the listener who really is like, okay, where do I get started? What habits got the mindset piece? down. I've got the forgiveness down. The pain is there, but I've healed and I'm ready to turn this into a message. Now I want to put this hope into action. I want to put this plan into action. What habits can they start putting into action today, David?

David Swihart: Absolutely. Well, the habits I teach are, ⁓ of them will sound ⁓ little strange, but I mean, ⁓ working with your voice. I mean, you've got to get comfortable with your voice. A lot us are not singers or people who like to sing or do music, but vocal training and vocal preparation is very important. ⁓ Breathing are very important because ⁓ breath ⁓ is ⁓ breath as far as the ability to calm yourself and to work through that, but also having enough breath to actually speak well and to speak out and clearly is very important as well. And even working on diction, how you pronounce words and how they come out of your mouth, because everybody's mouth is shaped differently. ⁓ one of my biggest tips for speakers. Buy the book Fox and Socks by Dr. Seuss. It's a tongue twister.

Dr. Brandi Kelly: Yeah.

David Swihart: Every single sound you can make with your mouth in the English language is just about in there and every one that trips people up is sitting there In my workshops, I have multiple copies of book I will have them actually sit there and read page after page of that book out loud to each other Emphasizing those those words working through those hard sounds because each of our mouths have different places in my last workshop I had 25 or 30 people reading these books and they were shocked because one person could read one they couldn't read at all and the other one could read the one that they couldn't read. But it's because of the shape of our mouth, the way our tongues work, all of that. And so working on those type of exercises helps you get ready and be more confident because we all have words we struggle with. We have words that we don't know how to deform well. And it's just that practice. It's that working through that. And so those habits, in addition to some of that you mentioned, mean, collecting stories, collecting expertise, collecting quotes, collecting of ⁓ things because knowing where those things, where each of those are and having good places for that. And I want to give a warning to the crowd as well. Be careful with using IAI for some of those pieces. It's not, mean, AI is a tool that can be used very well. And I use it sometimes for trying to get a, think through some phrases or titling or things like that, but be very careful about using it to collect stories without doing your homework. I it's great at helping you find a story or two, but make sure you go get the details of the story from somewhere other than AI, use the research, if you use one that has a research background, make sure you go and look at the research, because it will shape the story in ways that maybe it shouldn't have been. So always be careful when you use that tool, because I encourage my speakers to write their speech before they use AI, and then use AI to make it better rather than the other way around.

Dr. Brandi Kelly: and my 20 plus years in education, you working with students, especially junior high students, learning to fact check is so important because if you come across not being authentic and junior high kids will call you on that quicker than anybody else. So you definitely have to ⁓ make that you're delivering the content that you know and you're delivering it in an authentic manner.

David Swihart: What's this? Absolutely, absolutely. Because, I mean, if you quote a statistic, you better know where that statistic came from, how they got it, where the research was done. Because a lot of your major statistical houses are doing very bad statistical data. you have to be very, very careful to know what kind of study it was, where it was done, how it was done, who it was done with before you use a statistic. ⁓ actually tell my speakers to be, ⁓ very rarely encourage them to use statistics unless there's a very clear path to it. because so many of them have been disproven over time. it's just, it's a very, because of the internet today, you can find things, like I heard a speaker a couple years back say, can form a habit in 14 days. And that statistic has been disproved over and over and over again. And now the average is actually 120 plus. And then people are gonna fact check me on that one. But it's culture of six months worth of of. of time because you have to undo so many things in order to actually develop a habit. But when you use quota statistic that people can look up and say you're wrong, then they're gonna start questioning the whole rest your speech. They're gonna question your credibility.

Dr. Brandi Kelly: And you do have to, you have that competency, right? You've got to have, I think competency, you have to have warmth so that you can engage with the audience, that trust and likeability factor. ⁓ And heard another speaker talk about ⁓ needing to have moments of awe in your, in your speech. Yeah. So competency, warmth, and Those are three components that

David Swihart: That's right. Yes. Yes. Mm-hmm.

Dr. Brandi Kelly: I like to add into the speeches that I deliver. Now I'm curious, David, when you think about your story, you think about the message that God has given you to share with the world. Can you give us a little bit of that today?

David Swihart: Absolutely. my message is always, is very much to faith-based authors and speakers because as I look at them as aspiring people, I want them to know ⁓ I call it God's map for you. it's, know, God has a map because He's given you a message that needs to be shared. The message is so critical to ⁓ to the world. mean, the I'm a part of and we do workshops in ⁓ right, and around the country, but it's ⁓ Communicator because we believe the kingdom has given you a message and the message is going to help further the kingdom. And so when we miss that have a message, mean, everything we've been through, all the things that we've gone through, the experiences, the hardships, the ⁓ joys, celebrations, all of those things are messages that need to be shared. People need to hear success stories. People need to hear failure stories. People need to hear pain stories. People need to hear pleasure stories. I mean, they need to hear all of it. And whether you've had a perfect life that has had no issues whatsoever, or if you've had the worst life that could ever be recorded, that message needs to be heard. And so the first, so second part of the map is there's an audience that's waiting to hear it. Whether that audience is one person, a thousand people, or a million people, someone needs to hear that message even today. So that message needs to get out to the audience. It has to be put in a place where people can hear it, whether that's in a room, whether that's online, whether that's in a stadium. It doesn't matter where that might be. There's an audience that's waiting to hear that message. And finally, I believe God's preparing a platform for you. And that platform could be anywhere. That platform could be in your living room. It could be at your favorite coffee shop. It could be at your church. It could be in the largest venue you could ever imagine. It could be somewhere online that's gonna get 10 million views, but God's got a platform that your message needs to be heard, your audience is gonna hear it, and he's preparing the platform. And we trust that God does all of that through it. What happens is we become a kingdom communicator. It becomes not about us, it becomes about him, it becomes about, it's not about our world, it's about his, and then the kingdom wins. And so that's always the message I share with people is. God's given you a message, He's given you an audience, He's given you a platform, so get out there, get out ⁓ your comfort zone, get up on the stage and get speaking.

Dr. Brandi Kelly: Just be obedient. And that speaks so clearly, David, to the purpose piece of the hope framework. And I have personally, and my listeners know this, have a life verse, it's Romans 8 28. All things work together for the good of those who love the Lord and are called in accordance to his purpose. For you, do you have a life verse that you wanna share with the audience?

David Swihart: Yep, Philippians 3, I'm going to miss the verse off the top of my head, but not that I've already obtained all this or I've already been made perfect, but one thing I do, pressing the goal that press on to take that for which Christ Jesus took hold of me.

Dr. Brandi Kelly: love that. I love that.

David Swihart: And again, to have a verse that speaks loudly to us and to know that that's, you I mean, the thing I always look at is God's taken us where He's taken us so far and He just is continuing to improve us and do that work in us. And that's true of whether we're a speaker, an author, or just living life and doing the job that God's called us to. I mean, whatever that place is, He's always working to bring us into a better state and closer to Him.

Dr. Brandi Kelly: absolutely. Loving God and loving people. That's the mission. That's we're here on this earth. So ⁓ I appreciate sharing your work with us today, sharing a little bit about how to become a better speaker. ⁓ And I ask my ⁓ guests as are finishing up this podcast episode, what is giving you hope in the world right now, David?

David Swihart: Absolutely. now, ⁓ think what's giving me the most hope is seeing the younger generation ⁓ starting to explore ⁓ again. I mean, knowing that Gen Z and Gen Alpha are really revival, they're ⁓ going back church, they're getting engaged, and watching that happen has been really a blessing. I mean, knowing that they're... mean, the church is always a generation from extinction, but God's more faithful than we could ever imagine. And he ⁓ popping up in that and rising up. And so watching my kids, watching their friends and watching young at the church just really still engage and move forward has been really, really exciting.

Dr. Brandi Kelly: It is so exciting to see our kids get excited to really get on fire for Jesus again. So great. Now David, if somebody wants to get a hold of you, wants to learn more about what you do, maybe they're looking for a speech coach. How would they get in touch with you?

David Swihart: Absolutely. Uh-huh. Yep, can, they can email me, it's probably the easiest way, at david, at davidsweihart.com, it's as easy as my name, david, at davidsweihart, and last name's S-W-I-H-A-R-T, dot com, and they can ahold of me there, and so usually the easiest way.

Dr. Brandi Kelly: Okay, well I appreciate you coming on the show today

David Swihart: Absolutely. Well, Brandy, thank you so much for having me and I love the hope you're spreading and look forward to seeing how your group continues to grow Thank you so much.

Dr. Brandi Kelly: Thank you.