Episode 284: Great Schools Start with Great Leadership Teams

Darrin (00:00)

All right, everybody, welcome into episode two hundred and eighty-four of the Leaning Into Leadership Podcast. So, what is it that separates leadership teams that simply survive from those that truly transform a school? I will tell you that it is an experience. It's not the titles, and it certainly isn't having all the answers. Sometimes it's all about trust. It's the willingness to say, you know, I don't know yet. It's protecting one another when things get tough. It's

Having hard conversations behind closed doors so you can present clarity and confidence everywhere else. This week I am joined by three incredible school leaders from Locust Grove Middle School in Locust Grove, Virginia. Marlene Rombach, Rocio Rhodes, and Christina Shires share their story of the first year they worked together as a leadership team. It's been a year filled with challenge, growth, laughter, some tough conversations, and honestly, some pretty remarkable results.

If you're a principal, assistant principal, district leader, or honestly anyone who works with a leadership team, this conversation is packed with some practical ideas that you can apply immediately.

Before we jump in, I want to thank our sponsor, Hey Tutor. Hey Tutor is more than a tutoring partner. They're a true district partner committed to personalized learning that produces measurable results. Recognized with the NSSA badge for high quality tutoring, Heytutor helps schools close learning gaps while strengthening literacy and math foundations through targeted, research-based support. Here's the amazing thing about Hey Tutor that I think separates them from so many other vendors that are out there.

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the right people for you. To learn more about them and how they might be able to support you and your district, visit heytutor.com or even better, hit the link down in the show notes. That'll let them know you heard about them here on the Leaning Into Leadership podcast. Okay, folks, let's jump into this conversation now with Marlene and Christina and Rocio from Locust Grove Middle School. I'll see you on the other side.

speaker-3 (00:00)

All right, everybody, welcome into the show. really excited about this one. I am at Locust Grove Middle School in Locust Grove, Virginia, joined by Marlene and Christina and Rocio, the leadership team here.

at Locust Grove Middle School. ladies, just real quick for the folks that are listening, the folks that are watching on YouTube, just very quick introduction, who you are, what your role is. Marlene, I'll go to you for

speaker-0 (00:22)

Okay, so my name is Marlene Rombach. this is my first year of principal here. I've been an administrator, now assistant principal, was for four years. I came from Green County, I did instructional coaching and I was in the classroom for ten years. And I was a concurrent switcher, came out of the business world, so it was a little bit of a different non-traditional pathway.

speaker-3 (00:43)

Okay, Christina.

speaker-1 (00:44)

Hi, I'm

Christina Shires. This I just completed my first year as an assistant principal here at Locust Grove and I was actually an elementary school teacher leading up to the transition, but like Miss Rombach, I was a career switcher and so I spent a lot of my life in finance.

speaker-2 (01:00)

I am Rocia Rhodes. I am completing my second year as an assistant principal. Before I became an assistant principal, I spent a little bit of time dipping my toes into administration as I was completing my second master's degree in administration. I am currently achieving my doctorate degree. I'm also a career switcher, but I made that switch rather quickly.

so I have been in education for about twelve years now. and yeah, I love it.

speaker-3 (01:31)

All right, awesome. So one of the things that I think is really unique about you guys as a team is, and you all just kind of referenced it, this is your first year together as a team, but first year as the building principal, first year as an administrator. I mean your second year obviously in your assistant principal role here in this building, but your role changed significantly with that. full disclosure, folks, I have been working with and and coaching this team the entire year. We'll continue to going forward, and I'm super, super proud.

Of this team. So, what I want to talk about with you guys and have you guys share with our listeners first and foremost, just some of the learnings from everything to do with first year. Marlene, I want to come to you first because you transitioned super late from assistant principal in this building to principal, like mid-July, and you start school at the end of July. So talk a little bit about maybe some of what you learned.

both as an administrator, but maybe what you learned about yourself going through this year.

speaker-0 (02:27)

So

it was a it was an interesting because I didn't necessarily see it coming. it was a little bit of kind of things percolating and I was in this building for three years before s going into principal and so over the summer when it was kind of mentioned and thrown out there a little a couple times that it actually happened was kind of you know a exciting and thrilling, but like super nerve-wracking at the same time. And so there was a lot of work over the summer in

Just getting my feet, what does this all this job entail? And then having to hire assistant principal hiring my role. So it was it was a lot of work. It was it was exciting and fun. Miss Rhodes and I had worked together for the year before, but it we had to, you know, kind of pull it together. There was a lot of planning in a really short amount of time. And we were hiring too up until like

New teacher week. And that was a huge challenge for us. So it was not only like planning from this level, but hiring teachers over the summer and and sometimes you know we were in a position of a choice of one. So that was that was pretty challenging was was all the planning and then when Christina came on there was not a lot of time for joint planning together. And we were a three woman team and three pretty high achieving

type A personality women, you know, kind of brought together in this role. And so we had to kind of figure it out a little bit on the fly.

speaker-3 (03:54)

Yeah, for sure. And I mean I remember sitting in this very conference room last year, I think Christina, it was like maybe day two for you. And and

speaker-1 (04:02)

Started three days before staff.

speaker-3 (04:04)

Yeah. and we're I mean we're going through like w this morning we just were you know going through you know kind of job responsibilities that role clarity piece but I remember we were doing that and like I don't even know if you had set stuff down in an office yet. So there was a lot of of how this all all came together. Rocio I want to ask you before I go to Christina on this. So there was even though assistant principal assistant principal

But there was a lot of transition in your role this year. what are what are some things that when you reflect on this year that maybe you learned about the team or maybe that you reflect on yourself and say, man, this year challenged me and as a result I'm able to do this

speaker-2 (04:44)

So this year was definitely a challenging year. This year I got to know myself better in a personal way, in a professional way. I had to step up. I had to make sure that even when I was a wreck inside, I could not show it on the outside because I had people that depended on me. I needed to make sure that when my teams were

In a kerfuffle. They knew that they could count on me even when my insides were like on G. but at the end of that, I saw myself and I was like, you know what? You pulled it through. Who knew you could pull it through and come out at the end and actually pull through in a positive way?

So, not only did that say something about me as a person, but also me as a professional that my team could count on me, that my principal could count on me, and that my team could count on me, that my students could count on me. I mean, overall, my my biggest goal was to make sure that it's not my classroom anymore, it's all the students within the building.

They need to be ready to move on to their next level and be as ready as possible. And for that to happen, the teachers need to be ready. And if the teachers are not ready, like it's all a domino effect. And it all starts with the top. Yeah. So ultimately, it's us. At least here in the building, it's us.

speaker-0 (06:12)

Yeah.

And you brought up a good point, is we came like I was I was the AP in this building for three years. So you've got this, and when you have this relationship with staff, there's this obligation. It's different. It's different when you come in cold and you're like, all right, I'm gonna spend my first year learning, learning everybody's names, learning where the bathrooms are. We came in at a level of

you know, already knowing those things. So there's kind of no excuse. Like we had to jump in and hit the ground running. And because we had these relationships with these people, we wanted it to work out. Like we had the vision of where we knew this building could go and the struggles that it had had in advance. And there was a there was a strong personal obligation to the people. And you know, when you have those relationships, so it put on, I would say it probably added a little bit of pressure. You know, they look to you and they're like, okay

You know us, you know what we need, you know where you need to take this. And so that it definitely added a level of like we really want it to work out because these people are counting on you to make this to go in a better direction. These people are counting on you to get behavior under control. So there's that that piece, that obligation, it adds at another level. And also, you know, when you have relationships with the central office, when you stay in the same division, they have a view of you.

And you want to not disappoint them as well. You wanna have this like you know, you wanna I mean I would have loved to say our scores are at a hundred percent. Look, we we hit it out of the park. And sometimes the vision isn't necessarily realistic, like w you know, we want it to happen like within a month. I want it all perfect.

speaker-1 (07:52)

Like the identifying success. Yeah that you talked about yesterday.

speaker-0 (07:55)

You have to

accept, okay, all right, that it's it's part of a process. But that's that's a tough one too when you're a high achiever and you want it, you know, great. And now the ball's given to you and now you're, you know, to take it into the end zone and you know. So it just it adds I think for both of us 'cause she 'cause Rocio was brand new and then stepped into my role and kinda took on a lot of those things that

You know, it w it was a lot on her too. So it it for I think for the two of us there was a it was a pretty high amount of pressure.

speaker-2 (08:26)

And to be really honest, when I didn't know the answer to the things, I did not lie. I told the people, you know, I don't know, but that doesn't mean that I'm not gonna go and find out and call the people and and advocate and say the things that I need to say because I know that you come from the space or that you need it or but.

At the end of the day, I knew that my position was to advocate for them, to find out the answers, and to hold it together. Because when we closed the door and the three of us were together, that was my time to be like

my god. And let it out, but I knew that behind that door that was Vegas. That was when we were in our safe space. And our biggest my biggest takeaway from this year would be how strong a team needs to be for the school to be successful. Yeah. If our team hadn't been as strong as it was.

Our building would have not been as successful as it was this first year.

speaker-0 (09:39)

And

speaker-3 (09:40)

well I'm sorry, Martin. No, no, right. I I'm really glad that you say that because I mean that's one of the things I really want to get into. you know, I I mentioned it earlier. I mean obviously I work with a lot of teams and you guys are a team that I honestly brag about quite a bit, especially because

all the dynamics that go into how you came together and and the timing around it and all of that to still have the success as a team you've had. A a lot of it comes back to something Rocio that you just were alluding to which is trust. Now, Christina, you you come in, you're the new member of the group. Yes. And not only do you have to build, you know, rapport and trust with Marlene and and Rocio, you have to do the same thing with this entire

speaker-1 (10:22)

Yeah.

speaker-3 (10:22)

So talk about maybe how you went about that and when when did you start to see that pendulum kind of swing in the direction you wanted?

speaker-1 (10:31)

So the whole reason I went into administration was because I spent a lot of my teaching career watching teachers not fully be supported. And I knew that I had a big enough personality where I'm not easily intimidated. And so I wasn't afraid to kind of push back where necessary to support those kids. Cause like Rhodes said, it's like a domino effect. And I feel like when I have to use all of my personality

to help a teacher that then helps a teacher be successful, that then helps an you know, in middle school, classrooms upon classrooms of kiddos. and so I do think though, like I started off really focusing on that relationship piece with all of the staff, all of the staff.

But it didn't take very long. One of the things that I was telling teachers, even that first quarter that I was here, as they're coming to me, knowing that this is my first year, but treating me as if I can do and solve all of the problems. I attribute a lot of that to the groundwork that these two laid. That those teachers felt like if they hired me, then they should then instill that trust in me. And so I remember going to like I'd have one, I just looked at her and I was like.

Thank you so much for trusting me to fix that for you. You don't know me from anybody. Like I'm not from this county. I came from a different county. And so it's not like they had any experience with me at all. I was just very honest and transparent with everybody. And that's how I choose to be mo, you know, in general. but it was really beneficial in this particular setting to, you know, if I was willing to be vulnerable and like I have no problem saying I don't know.

'Cause it's always the followed with yet. I don't know that yet, but let me get back to you. And I think like I was just very honest with them and I gave them that space to be honest with me in return. But it really was it was pretty quick that I started for the most part getting that respect from the staff. But I do think that that had a lot to do but

speaker-2 (12:29)

very direct

so you don't you don't beat around the bush and I feel like that builds a lot of trust with people when you when you don't tell them the well no you tell it how it is so it's not that you're telling them something sweet to their face and then they hear something different behind their back. Yes. Like and I feel that that says a lot about your character and about the trust that you build you build with your people.

speaker-0 (12:36)

Okay.

Well I think we supported each other too and and they didn't see us they saw us as a united front. Yeah. So I think that builds trust when they know we're not throwing each other under the bus. They see that we're then trustworthy if they come and share something personal with that struggle that they're having. so I think the trust that that we had in each other then radiates to the rest of the

speaker-3 (13:15)

I

Okay, so all of this

All of this if if I'm listening and I don't know you guys sounds like, wow, everything was just rosy and perfect and I know you and I've worked with you. I know there were some bumps as you went through the course of the year. and you guys take it in any order and and any direction you want to go with without you know revealing too many of the warts. But when when the bumps came up, how is a team

Did you navigate through some of those?

speaker-0 (13:46)

So I think we had a lot of conversations and we talked to each other all of the time, whether it's you know, checking in the morning, throughout the day, like it's constant communication with each other. And so there were times, especially I'm gonna say in the first couple of months, like personnel struggles that came along and things that I was not expecting, like you know, the hardest part to be the adult piece or struggles with parents or being put on Facebook.

For things that really didn't happen, those to me were frustrations. And I think that we were the shelter in the storm for each other. And even if there were times that it was a parent meeting and one of us made a mistake, it was okay. We didn't get mad and say, Well, that caused that issue to happen. We just kind of looked at and said, All right, going forward.

Is there a better way could we have prevented this situation? And I think always regrouping and always reflecting, and you know, we just kind of did the best we could.

speaker-1 (14:45)

And having a chocolate drawer didn't hurt in each respective office.

speaker-2 (14:50)

Yeah.

speaker-3 (14:51)

And a chocolate

tub. Yes. And

speaker-0 (14:54)

Yeah. And there were there were hard there were definitely I mean I would say towards the end of the year it probably got a little bit bumpier with like different things and and a lot of this the hard thing is some of these things are out of our control. Yes. And we we do as much as we can to prevent things, but sometimes things still happen. And it's frustrating. You know, there were times that I was like, I should have gone to nursing school. Like why did I decide to do this?

But though those were brief moments that, you know, happened when I went into education eighteen years ago. But those were brief moments. But I think us the team and being the soft place to fall for each other, even if there were times that we disagreed, we would shut the door and we would kinda talk through things or how could it have been done better, what would a different

speaker-2 (15:37)

But I also think as a team, we we take accountability. We take like we I go to you and I mess this up and I tell you I messed this up and if a parent came in because of my mess up, I tell the parent, listen, I am so sorry. Yeah, that was my mess up. And when that parent leaves, you don't close that door and you don't yell at me. We have a reflective conversation about

speaker-1 (15:56)

Yeah.

speaker-2 (16:04)

How can we make sure that doesn't happen again? Or we don't even have to have that conversation because I already tell you, hey, I will for sure not make this mistake again because I already learned my lesson and I will make sure that this doesn't happen again. Like we know as a team where our mistakes happen and we kind of tell on ourselves. Like

speaker-1 (16:24)

I have gone to you to be like, hey, this teacher may come see you. I, you know, roads talks about my directness. It has, you know, I it's been a work in progress forever. Like I tell people, even upon meeting me, hey, I have foot and mouth. It's a disease that I have. So sorry. Please just if that disease rears its ugly head, let me know. Give me the opportunity to make that situation better. Don't

presume negatively. Presume positive intentions. I always have the best of intentions. It just doesn't always come out in the way in which I would love for it to. And so there are times where I didn't re like in the moment I do s I did something and then I'm like, ooh, even though that was the right thing to do, that delivery could have been different. And then I would go and be like, hey, so if this teacher comes to you, FYI, this is what I did. And it did come across in a particular way.

And that's one of my big things that I like like I'll be like, I am so sorry for how that was delivered. I will not say most of the time that I am sorry for what I said, 'cause usually I'm not what I say. I mean what I say. I and that is just who I am. But sometimes that delivery piece has to be done differently.

I feel like it is like in this building it has not been so bad. Like everybody, I was just very transparent. This is I will give you a compliment sandwich if you really need it, but really let's just talk about what the problem is. because then you know where I'm coming from, I know where you're coming from, and then we can fix a problem without the dance. I'm a horrible dancer, I have two left feet. So it's better to just get to the nitty-gritty of it. and I think that's been helpful for me, but

We are all like that with you know, in different ways. Yeah.

speaker-0 (18:04)

And some staff members you can be more direct with another staff member. Some staff members it has to be a little bit more of a gentle, you know, to to not get them to shut down. And some people you can be more direct in some situations. Well

speaker-1 (18:17)

And

like when she talks about the soft space or the Vegas, like I I know what my natural inclination is. So I'll go into her office and I will

And say all of the things that I want to say so that I can then go have that conversation in a productive way with the people that need it a little softer. and I'll be like, This is what I'm thinking. And one of them will be like, Maybe we tweak it here, you know, like we bounce ideas off of each other. And that has been super helpful for me to, you know, smooth those edges, so to speak.

speaker-3 (18:50)

Absolutely. So let's let's maybe shift the direction just a little bit because there's a couple other things I want to make sure we get to. During the course of the year, there certainly were some things that you did very intentionally. And I mean, going all the way back to last summer, having conversation around how are you going to be intentional with your time? How are you going to be intentional with some of the meeting structures that you use? Some of those things. Marlene, you shared with me the other day when we were doing the Plus Dell test.

actually I think it was within the whole group that even using your administrative meeting you know times very strategically so it wasn't just the three of you getting together every single week it was talk a little bit about maybe some of the systems or structures that you guys have put in place that have allowed you to be more efficient with the use of your time with actually still getting into classrooms

That's one of the things I love about you guys. You do get into so many classrooms, so many PLCs, where a lot of others struggle with that. And I know you guys aren't perfect there. I know you want to keep keep getting better. We just spent some time on how do we make more time for ourselves, but talk about some of those systems or or like specific intentional actions you've taken so that you are able to use use your time better.

speaker-0 (20:06)

Well, I think some of it is the setup and the running of the school. Like the communication is is very specific to the staff. It's very organized. The master schedule, the bell schedule was all thought through really carefully to make sure transitions were good, transitions were smooth, and that we saw some of the decline in behaviors. Because if you're running around putting out fires because kids are acting up all over the place.

Then then you're just a firefighter. So trying to get the building to almost run itself in ways was the goal with this is how we do lunch procedure. It is very specific. It's like this dance that we do every day. Getting those pieces, this is how we transition. Because otherwise, you'll get in a middle school, you'll get pockets of chaos, and then that chaos is what you're fighting every day.

So by getting certain things, and a lot of it does start with the master and the bell schedule, how smooth that is, what does your transition look like? What is the expectation given to kids so that they could then do the lion's share of the discipline, which is what they did. And we were actually down like twenty-eight percent this year in discipline referrals. So less referrals means that I'm able to get into classrooms more, we're able to do PLCs more.

The more we're in classrooms, then the less discipline you get. So it becomes this kind of positive feedback loop instead of just like you feel like the wave's kind of gotten away from you and now you're just putting out fires. Like that, I would say that behavior piece and that system of what our transitions look like. Where's everybody supposed to be? How do we do our lunch? All of that needs to work. And then our meetings too are really thoughtless.

Through, like what is the why behind if we're asking a teacher to do something? Let's make sure that they understand the why. So, for example, we had to start our remediation enrichment plan this year. It's part of the Virginia Literacy Act, and they have to have a certain amount of designated time every day that they're working on literacy. Well, for some teachers, it was, you know, I'm not a reading teacher. Really, why are you gonna make me do this? And sometimes, you know, people would go through the motions.

But weren't really embracing it and using those meetings as this is the why that we're doing it, because if they're better readers, they're better in civics, they're better in math, they're better in science. And so those, if it could be in an email, I did it in an email. Although staff isn't great at reading emails, but to try to make those like I was not like I'm kind of like a let's get it done person. Like, okay, here's what we need to talk about in the meeting. This is why it's a face-to-face meeting.

Now let's move on and let's let you go. Like I I wasn't a meeting person, like it was all about efficiency, or the more organized we were, the more thoughtful, the more planned out, like every schedule changed. Everybody knew what was going on, so then we could be less involved. So almost the the goal is to kind of work ourselves out of a job so that the building runs efficiently without us and that we can focus on the coaching piece, because that's really

such a fundamental piece is making you know, when you're dealing with behavior, if you've got a great lesson plan, instruction plan, you get less behavior. So trying to hit that like kind of foundation root cause is where I try to spend a lot of time. Sorry, that was kind of a long winded app.

speaker-1 (23:27)

Okay. Well, and I think on a practical aspect for you're talking about behavior, we had a Google form for teachers to put in referrals and stuff. And we got some feedback at the beginning of the year with teachers asking, Hey, did you take care of this? Hey, did and then Rhodes went into that document and made it so that once we handled something, we put our initials in and teachers would get an automated email. So then it was helping to build that trust piece that we've also talked about. And so we we've been

Reflective, I feel like, throughout the whole school year. Like if someone brought a problem to us or made a complaint, we put our heads together and then come up with practical solutions that you know, you in the back of our head with time sucks and all of that, you know, figuring out a way to make it traumatic so that we weren't wasting time responding and sending an email every time we did a referral. and I think then teachers knew that if they put something in.

speaker-0 (24:13)

Darren.

speaker-1 (24:24)

that we would handle it. And so I think that might have even contributed to the smaller amount of referrals because they were like, listen, I know that this is gonna be dealt with. So I don't have to put in every teeny tiny thing. I'm gonna put in the things that I really need handled because I know that something is going to happen. Yes.

speaker-0 (24:41)

And that's a lot of trust there too. Behavior with, you know, secondary can be one of the most found fundamental frustrations for a teacher. And I mean, having taught in the classroom for a long time before even going to administration, like that was one of those, I think, core values that the three of us had that we are not gonna tolerate disrespect to our teachers. We're not gonna tolerate students disrupting the learning of other pieces of other students. So we really feel strongly about that.

And sometimes we took the hits from parents because, you know, they didn't necessarily agree or that's too hard of a consequence, but we kind of held the line and we came out really strong in the beginning of the year. And whether it was I'd walk into a classroom and say, How do these two get put together? And then immediately we're teamed so I could move we move schedules. We put kids in all dead, like we really came strong with our behavior and getting that because that is a huge time suck as an administrator.

speaker-2 (25:37)

But

it really helped that you and I had been here previously, that you had been here for so many years before, because we knew those students, we knew even siblings that had been here before, so we knew connections. And going back to that literacy piece, yes, we had high expectations for our teachers, and we had high expectations, even though you are not a reading teacher, even though

we made curriculums for them, we made their lesson plans. Yeah, we gave them the lexia piece, like we gave them everything, we got them all the books, and on top of that, we made sure that our in-house PDs were also surrounded by lessons on how do you break down.

speaker-1 (26:06)

Yeah.

speaker-2 (26:28)

those those readings like how do you do those KWLs? How do you you know dig deeper into those comprehension? Like how do you have those thinking questions, those thinking out loud questions that you as an adult do when you're reading, but that you need to model for your students because your your robotics teacher that has never taught a reading class

Is now having a novel study and he has to model that thinking piece. So not only did we have high expectations, but we also made sure to back it up with let me support you and let me coach you. Yeah. So that yes, we have high expectations, but we're also gonna make sure that you are successful. And again, domino effect, our students are gonna be successful.

speaker-3 (27:22)

I think I think that's a huge piece right there. I think you know it's one thing to say I have high expectations, but if you don't bring the same level of support, it's very exactly it's unrealistic to to think. Yeah, and and and so to that end, here's here's where I want to go with my next question on that.

speaker-1 (27:32)

It's like a cock in the kettle.

speaker-3 (27:39)

You know, here here in Orange County, I know Dr. Hornik has very high expectations of you, but he also is one who brings that level of support. Hence me being in in you know in the building so many times this year with you guys and and continuing going forward and in so many other places around the county. So let's let's talk a little bit about that impact of coaching. what as you have gone through this year.

speaker-1 (27:47)

Yes.

speaker-3 (28:03)

Where have you felt the benefit of that or what maybe that coaching, whether that's the district-wide stuff or the individual stuff I do within the building, how has that impacted the work that you do?

speaker-0 (28:16)

You

mean the coaching that you've done with us? I think, you know, I share with you the beginning of the year, one of my big worries was going into this and burning myself out and saying, I'm working, you know, whatever, a hundred hours a week, I'm staying here till late. And I worried about that a ton. And one of the nice things I think about going through the coaching process was something that may take me five years to figure out on my own and burning myself out and putting on 50 pounds.

We kind of we kind of went through the process of of of just kind of speeding up the learning curve. Cause you sat down with us and said, okay, like basic foundationally, what are we all in charge of? Whose role? Like just like defining the roles helps a ton. saying this shouldn't be on your plate, this should be on your plate, that helps a ton. So getting the foundation and at the

planning level because a lot of you know when you're in a school the planning always happens in the summertime like that's when you you plan your whole year and being able to talk about the culture especially that's a huge part of this and that was a huge focus is how are we gonna really take the culture of this building and make it a positive experience for people, for students, for for teachers. What does that look like? And the planning all happened in the summer when we worked with you from the

What are we gonna value? The recognition piece and how are we gonna do that throughout the year? So we came up with, I thought, really robust plans of recognitions for s teachers and students, of professional development around coaching for teachers and students. And all of those plans that we did really focused on the work that we did over the summer is kind of like prioritizing, all right. So how am I gonna do this? What is this gonna look like? You know, we did the brainstorming, which we had fun with, but

kind of the foundation, the prioritizing, there was a lot of help from that. And when we were stuck, it was, Hey Darren, what do think about this? Those two going, three years later we should have, you know, done it different and I could have saved myself a million hours and been at the gym more.

speaker-1 (30:13)

That's what I was gonna say. ⁓

'Cause like for me, I didn't know what I didn't know going into things. So like I didn't know what questions to ask you. You were here and it was lovely and you had all sorts of wonderful ideas, but I had never had to implement any of those things. And then when you gave us the Marco Polo app, when something popped up for me, me being able to just send you a 30 second little snippet to be like, hey

I don't really can you explain? Can you help me walk through this? So even in the times where you weren't physically in the building, I could still pick your brain. And for me that was huge because I was learning as I went because I started so you know, days before teachers. Like I I didn't have all the stuff that everybody else got. And so I was learning on the fly and still trying to do my job at the same time. So when those hiccups came, I really appreciated not necessarily instant access.

But like that I I and I mean it what didn't hurt that it was like a video. So I feel like I was having a conversation with you too. when I said things like I as clear as mud. Yeah you know. But but that was super helpful.

speaker-0 (31:27)

Yeah. Because I think we've all been part of teams that haven't worked. Like I've I've seen things not work and when they're then things don't work, it's really stressful. It's stressful for the team, it's stressful for the teacher. Like it's so and I didn't I'm too old to go through that. I didn't want to go through that in my life. I would just as soon, you know, go back to the classroom. You know, I wanted it to work and I wanted and I think that team foundation piece was where you really focused with us.

And we kind of took the ball then and ran with it. And understanding what our core values had to be and that we had to no matter what, protect that unit. Yeah. And how do we protect that unit by, you know, delegate these certain, you know, our roles and we don't get into other people's sandboxes and we we respect and and I think that was pivotal for us and kind of looking back and and kind of having some fun too. Because it was hard, but we laughed a whole lot.

speaker-1 (32:22)

Yes.

speaker-0 (32:22)

there was a whole lot of practical joking in this building. never would have thought that I'd go and buy a fart machine and and hide outside a classroom and set it off of you know, these silly little things that we did that we also had a lot of fun, but because of these other pieces were in place, we were able to get creative. We were able to have fun. Because we had that the foundation and the structure were strong, so it enabled us to have like a good day.

speaker-2 (32:47)

And

I think it comes down to not that it wasn't in place before. I think the main I don't want to say problem or issue is just the foundation here before was different. It was one principal, one assistant principal. So it was so different. And then that changed. And then you added a second assistant principal, which is where I came in. I kind of learned for a year.

And then just as I was getting the hang of it, then the principal changed. And then I that then we added Christina. Yeah. So I feel like you came in like at the best time because like Marlene said, you helped like put us on the right track so that it didn't get muddy. I feel like if you hadn't been with us

It would have gotten a little confusing. I feel like you brought clarity to our team. I feel like you brought neutrality, if that even makes sense. Because we all have different ideas. We all like obviously we all want what's best for our school and our students. Yeah. But w I mean, I can speak for myself. I am

I can be set on my ways because I think I know because I think of the what I know is, hey, I've done the research and I've read and I know this and I know that. But when I speak with you, you don't say, no, what a horrible idea. You say, hey, Rocillo, let's think about it this way

speaker-0 (34:22)

Ha ha ha ha ha.

speaker-2 (34:24)

And I love that.

speaker-0 (34:26)

It was with gentle hands. It's like a little therapy therapy for us.

speaker-2 (34:28)

And

speaker-1 (34:30)

Yes.

speaker-2 (34:33)

And

even

But even when you tell me that I'm that I'm controlling, you tell me in the best way, but you bring in the context and you make me see things in a different perspective, but you come in in a neutral way because what you want is to make sure that the team works. And I mean ultimately I see that as your goal.

speaker-1 (34:58)

Yeah. There's not an underlying agenda of self benefit. Right. Like you're here to support us. It's not like you're trying to be successful, you're successful.

speaker-0 (35:04)

If we're successful, you're successful. So the

intention is is good. And so that that helped us. I think it saved time. I think it saved, you know, conflict. I think it's and I think it it's part of what made this building move in a good direction. And it definitely has. I mean, I think on the whole, there's been bumps. I think sometimes bumps it's frustrating when things kinda happen and you didn't have a control over it. And you learn like, but now I gotta deal with it. You know, but and that could be really hard sometimes. But

There was a lot of good stuff. And that's a thing I wanna make sure that, you know, we communicate.

speaker-2 (35:38)

And I feel like you worked hard to work that to work in that trust with us too. Like when we had our difficult times, okay, la can we talk to Darren and let's do a Zoom run.

speaker-0 (35:50)

to that's kind of a confidant or d you know just say you're doing it wrong like someone that could help me so that I now have a different way of thinking so that in the next situation I can think okay so this is what I learned from this and this is how I would apply it into each given

speaker-3 (36:05)

I think one of the unique things about my role, and this is one of the things I love most about what I get to do now, is all of what what you just said, but I'm not your evaluator. I'm not, you know, at the end of the day, the person that signs off on, you know, you know, that evaluation or whether or not you're recommended for a

speaker-1 (36:22)

That

paycheck.

speaker-2 (36:24)

Experience.

You have been in our place and further. Yeah.

speaker-3 (36:28)

Yeah, and I mean again, my goal and you hit it on the head is is to see you be as successful as possible. Yeah. All I want to do is just pour into you guys and then yes, your successes. I can't tell you how many times that, you know, after a Zoom or after a a Marco Polo with one of you or something like that, that I'm, you know, I'm not in front of a camera or in front of you, but I'm going.

speaker-2 (36:50)

Yeah.

speaker-3 (36:51)

So happy for them. you know, and and that's true of a lot of teams that I work with, but you know, certainly with you guys, that's been that's been so rewarding this year. And and again, I'm super excited to continue working with you guys and continue to be here at Locust Grove. So so let's do this. We're we're we're running short on our time. Normally I would ask, How are you leaning into leadership? Because that's the name of the podcast. I'm gonna use that question, but I want to use it just slightly different. As we now recording this here at the very end of

May as you now transition to next year, what are some things, maybe some learnings or some next steps that you're leaning into to take like this school to the next level?

speaker-0 (37:33)

So I think some of the things, the foundations that we started this year, I want to polish it and kind of make it more like some of the things with like the student recognitions, staff recognition, some of the culture pieces, I want to expand on those. you know, I've I've after looking back at this year, I think that there's some avenues to make more clear. you know, I hate to learn by making mistakes. That frustrates me, but

speaker-2 (37:57)

Thank you.

speaker-0 (37:59)

Sometimes that's how we learn. Yeah. So there's certain processes that I think n that we will set up that will give us a little bit more control, not so much micromanagement control, but like the system and the processy that we know that will work. So I think it's communication about certain things, enhancing the things that we did really well. and continuing with, you know, kind of enjoying to the winds.

You know, but I think continuing the things that we did this year that really worked and enhanced.

speaker-3 (38:30)

Yes, for sure.

speaker-2 (38:32)

I mean,

as the thinker of the group, I I also I also want to say that I mean as a team, we have really thought about how do we we did really well this year, how do we take it to the next step? How do we make sure that our communication, not just with our staff, but with our student and our community members, is is clear and direct. like

For example, yesterday when we were talking about, you know, next year and the plans and all of that, here in Virginia, the governor went as far as with a cell phone policy. And the county has the policy of off and away. Now it doesn't hurt to make sure that our parents and our students see that in writing. Like just so that you are aware.

The governor has this out and have it in writing. Yeah. Just so that you are aware the county has this policy and this is what it looks like in the school. Not in pockets, not ringing, not vibrating, off, not making any noise, not texting your student throughout the day, not going to the bathroom to text mom and dad about, hey, can you pick me up or can you bring me McDonald's? It should not be interrupting.

The learning of your student while they are in our building. So it seems a little redundant, but I feel like that clear communication also emphasizes the importance of because those devices can be

speaker-1 (39:58)

Mm-hmm.

speaker-0 (39:58)

Yeah.

speaker-1 (40:01)

A make or break.

speaker-0 (40:02)

Yes!

speaker-2 (40:02)

Yes. And you have no idea how many times I talk to a student about their cell phone and their response is, Well, my parent was texting me so I had to respond. So I think just the more clarity we bring to the table.

speaker-0 (40:17)

To parents as well as students, as well as teachers.

speaker-2 (40:21)

Holistically, I think it doesn't hurt. Like you say, the more clarity that we bring, the more it can help us as a team and help our school run efficiently.

speaker-1 (40:34)

Absolutely. And then I think that segues into me. I came on when everything was in place. So my job

this past year was just to execute somebody else's plan and to not really understand the why is so much behind it. But I built the relationship with them. So I bought in. I I bought what they were selling. But this year to get to have a say in that and to be a part of that brainstorming process is huge for me because I you know, I'm a firm believer that every single person in a room has something unique to contribute. and

And well, I'm not known for not contributing and not saying the things that I think. I think I I never felt like they didn't listen, but I think that I have a little bit more author like now you've come with some. You've lived it. Yeah. So now if you say the things that maybe you know and so for me that's gonna be big.

speaker-2 (41:23)

You have more ground to stand.

speaker-0 (41:25)

Secondary experience. Yeah.

speaker-3 (41:29)

Well I think some of that is you had positional authority, now you have trust authority. And and that's yeah, that's made a big difference. So this this has been so much fun. really, really enjoyed sitting down and actually putting microphones between us and reading

speaker-1 (41:35)

Yeah.

speaker-0 (41:44)

You know, this was my goal since the beginning.

speaker-3 (41:47)

And you have achieved that goal. so yeah this this has been great. Thank you guys for joining me here on the Into Leadership Podcast.

speaker-1 (41:54)

Thank you.

speaker-3 (41:55)

Well you don't know.

speaker-2 (41:56)

Make sure the the

speaker-0 (41:57)

Thank you.

All right. I gotta tell you that was a conversation that to me was just super special. Honestly,

Early in the school year, it was something that I think Marlene brought up that hey, we really want to be on your podcast. That's a goal of ours, is to have such a great year and have you bring us on the podcast and and talk about what we did. And so it was really a lot of fun to be able to sit down with them and have that conversation. for a pep talk today, what I want to do is challenge you to think about the value of working with a coach. Marlene.

And Rocio and Christina certainly spoke to that during the episode. And yes, they're talking about me as a coach. What I'm saying, whether it's me or someone else that you work with, having that outside perspective, having somebody who is non-judgmental, non-evaluative, to be able to lean into and to ask some questions. Honestly, at different times through the course of this year, Marlene, Rocio, and Christina, both individually and then as a collective team, reached out a number of times.

And said, hey, I've got this on my mind, or I'm working on this. Just to have that independent perspective makes such a difference. If you're a longtime listener of the show, you know that what launched me into coaching was the fact that I had a leadership coach. And working with Tom completely transformed me as a leader. So it's that time of year. In many of your cases, maybe you're just getting started, or maybe you just finished that first year and you're thinking, man, I I need another perspective. I need somebody to support me.

Reach out. Let's have a conversation. I'd love to share some concepts and some ideas with you around how you can continue to grow as a leader and how I might be able to support you. Hey, that's what I've got for you this week, folks. Thanks so much for tuning in and listening to the Leaning Into Leadership podcast. As always, rate, review, subscribe, and make sure you share this with somebody else who might enjoy leaning into leadership. Get out there, have a road to awesome week.