Episode 287: Becoming the BISON - Leading Classrooms with Intention with Kim Gameroz

Darrin (00:00)

All right, my friends, welcome into the Leaning Into Leadership Podcast. This is episode 287. And my guest on the show today is Kim Gamrose. Now, you know, one of the things I say all the time is that leadership is the intentional creation of conditions where other people can do their best work. And that's true whether you're leading an entire school district, an entire organization, maybe just a leadership team or even a classroom full of first graders.

Today's guest reminds us that great classrooms don't happen by accident. They are intentionally designed. From routines to transitions to relationships to emotional safety, every decision a teacher makes either creates predictability or it creates chaos. And if you're a principal or superintendent that's listening today, don't tune out thinking this is an episode only for teachers. Listen through the lens of leadership.

Ask yourself, how intentional are we about creating the conditions where teachers can thrive? Because when teachers feel supported, students benefit. Today I'm joined by Kim Gamarose, author of Becoming the Bison and founder of Teaching Inside Out. Kim has spent years helping educators build classrooms rooted in intentionality, consistency, and social emotional learning. And our conversation covers everything from classroom transitions to leadership, entrepreneurship, and

Why consistency still wins. Now, before we jump into that, how about a quick thank you for the sponsor of today's episode, Hey Tutor? Folks, if you are looking for a partner to help your students accelerate learning while supporting your teachers, I highly encourage you to check out my friends at Hey Tutor. From high impact tutoring to intervention support and innovative staffing solutions, Hey Tutor works alongside schools and districts to help students grow academically, but

Also easing some of the pressure that educators feel every single day. Look, Heytutor is committed to helping schools create stronger outcomes through personalized support, and that's exactly why I am proud to partner with them. Check them out at Heytutor.com to learn more or even better. Hit the link down in the show notes that lets them know you heard about them here on the Leaning Into Leadership podcast. Now, let's lean into leadership with Kim Gamarose. I'll see you on the other side.

Darrin (00:00)

All right, everybody, welcome back into the show. Joining me in the studio today, Kim Gamrose. Kim, thank you so much for joining me here on Leaning Into Leadership.

Kim Gameroz (00:10)

My gosh, well you said my last name wrong. Good job. Good job.

Darrin (00:13)

Well, you know, there we You know, I've been practicing it. So

make sure make sure I get it right from the very beginning. hey, hey, I've been looking forward to this conversation. I know that we'll we'll get into all kinds of fun stuff. We're definitely going to talk about becoming the bison and kind of the core story behind that. Before we do though, just really quick for my listeners or our watchers on on YouTube who maybe don't know Kim, give them a little taste of who you are. Let them know something about you.

Kim Gameroz (00:19)

Mm-hmm.

Yeah. So I work with teachers, individual teachers, groups of teachers, a community of teachers through my first business, Celebrate Good Times, where teachers come to me thinking, I need to go back to teacher school. I don't know how to do this anymore. Help me in my classroom. It feels chaotic and I don't have anybody leading this work. so they pour into themselves and I pour back into them. We go on retreats every single year called The Bloom, and it is just the greatest group of women.

From all across the country. We have n brand new teachers, a newbie from South Dakota. She's going into her first year teaching ever, all the way to a teacher that's going to retire at the end of the school year. So it is just the greatest. They're all across the nation. I also have another business teaching inside out. We look from the outside in, so teachers can teach from the inside out. And that's when schools and school districts come to me asking, what do we do? How can we

intentionally support our teachers because behavior referrals are increasing and they're coming to us saying we don't know what to do anymore. We have we've gone through all the consequences. PBIS isn't working the way we want it to. So I come in and work with the leadership team or a cohort and that's incredible. And it's also turned into a foundation, a conference and a podcast five EDU.

It just never ends, Darren. The work never ends. And there's always so many cool avenues to kind of take this work because people need help. And it's okay to need help. we can't do this alone. So that's what I do.

Darrin (02:12)

I love it. That's that is really, really awesome. And just like spoken like a true entrepreneur right there. Like, you know, hey, here's another opportunity. Let me go do this. I think I wanna I wanna chase after that. I I I wanna talk about, you know, some of the work with teachers and maybe get into some some maybe pieces of advice that we can share or or ways that we can inspire.

Kim Gameroz (02:17)

Yeah. ⁓

Darrin (02:35)

And help teachers really feel like, you know, hey, I got this this year. This is going to be amazing. But before we do, I I want to, I want to dig a little bit more on the entrepreneur side here because I just find this just really fascinating. obviously I've been an entrepreneur now for the last five years. Share a little bit of that, that journey that you know you go from from being a teacher to you know to being a s like like an instructional coach or or you know behavior coach and

Now you're running a foundation and a in a couple of businesses and having conferences and all this kind of stuff. So talk about some of that journey. How did that come about?

Kim Gameroz (03:09)

It has been a wild ride, Darren. A wild ride. I think at the beginning I just had an idea like Kim, you've got this. You can do this. You have content for days. You've been supporting teachers. You know what they need. You can talk about it. You can give them. You can produce content. but I needed help. And so I had reached out to a business coach and she had kind of like got into my brain to package it on what that could look like.

And then once I was able to package it, I was like, well, I can do this also because this would fuel me. that's why retreats kind of came to came about because I was like, wait, I can travel with my favorite teachers from all across the country. I can bring us all together and we can talk about the things that they've been coached in all year long, and they're dying to see each other in person and we can just like have a vacation but also learn. Like, how cool is that?

So that kind of happened and became a an annual thing, which is awesome. But I think honestly, like consistency has been the biggest thing. And when you get stuck in your head, like I I just can't do it anymore, or why isn't it happening faster? It really is consistency has been the biggest the biggest thing for me. In fact, in fact, just over the weekend I had a post for the very first time go completely viral. And

Darrin (04:30)

Cool.

Kim Gameroz (04:31)

like like a million views a million and it when you're like looking at your Instagram going like I couldn't even keep up the amount of people that were adding me and following me like I my brain was like going what is going on here and honestly I feel like when I think six years ago six years ago Kim would have been like where are the people where are the followers why is this happening you know and now

Darrin (04:54)

Yeah.

Kim Gameroz (04:57)

For sure I was stuck in a rut. I know that. I was talking about mindset. And I was like, why are these people not liking this content anymore? Like, why are the new people coming in? And so I went back to my roots and I went back to what the people needed, which is just a quick little something that I can like take and start in my classroom, which was an anchor chart. And that's what it was. It was just a T chart, anchor chart that talked about how you want to feel at school and what do we need to do in order to feel that way. And it

Went crazy. Like I think I doubled the amount of followers that I have. So at the time right now, I think I have almost like 14,000. Like, how'd that even happen? In three days? How'd that happen? It is so crazy. But the consistency piece, for sure, I would say that has to do with it. and going back to it just gets to be easy.

Like don't overcomplicate it. People don't want complicated. Like it it doesn't need to be that way. You don't have to shove mindset shifts into their faces and force them to try to understand it. They're not gonna get be intentional so others notice in the bison right away. Like that's not it. You gotta tiptoe. And where do you tiptoe? It's with the anchor charts. So yeah, I think that's been the the business journey for sure. And finding out, you know, who your people are. My people are the teachers, the teachers that are struggling right now. And

My solution is here. Let me hold your hand. I've got you. It's this.

Darrin (06:23)

Yeah, absolutely. I you know, you you hit a couple of things there that that really stand out to me. And probably the two of the biggest things that I have learned in my my journey here this last five years or so, and probably the advice that I share oftentimes with people who are like, hey, I want to do what you do, or I'd like to do something similar to what you do. Number one, who are your people? Like, like specifically, who are they and what problem are you trying trying to solve? And you can you clearly can articulate exactly what.

it is that that you're wanting to do. And then just simply being consistent. You know, you gotta show up on a regular basis. And if showing up on in your case it's Instagram and that's awesome. And if that's where your people are, go show up where your people are. I think those are those are really important lessons right there. I love that so much. So let's let let's transition to the the reason we're really on the podcast. this is not an entrepreneur podcast, although maybe I should do that would be a lot of fun. yeah

Kim Gameroz (07:13)

You should

Darrin (07:15)

Because I have time for another podcast. I I'm not Josh Damper, by the way. You know, I can't do four podcasts or or whatever Josh is doing. You know, hopefully you hear this, Josh, and just know we love you. So becoming the bison. Yeah, you you just dropped it really quick in there, you know, what bison stands for. Let's let's talk about that a little bit more. Let's unpack what it means to become the bison.

Kim Gameroz (07:36)

Yeah. So bison, they head into storms. They are fearless and they have their herd behind them. They're not unlike the cattle who run in the opposite direction. And I just love that thinking about kids in the classroom and having grit and that growth mindset that we teach into. And also for ourselves. Like, could an adult also be a bison? Could we also have grit and growth mindset? 100%. Do we also need our herd? Yes.

Who is our herd? Are our students our heard? Are our colleagues our heard? Is the administrator our herd? I sure hope so, because we're all running into the storm together. So that's part of it. And then also bison is an acronym. Be intentional so others notice. And when I was anchoring to that word intentional and kind of filling in that sentence.

Really, Darren, what it is is it's it is social emotional learning as like a living and breathing practice, as a mentality. It is in my space around me, what do I want people to notice? And what can I intentionally do so that they notice those things? So even like today I took a yoga class and I'm sitting there on my yoga mat and I watched the instructor get up, not once, not twice, but three times to change the lighting in the room.

It was like started off as like this light pink and then it changed to like this green and then it went to like this blue at the very end. And I was thinking, I noticed. Why? Because she was intentional. She was creating this space where like the music is gonna hype up a little bit here, right? You're gonna be going through this flow, you're gonna sweat more. So the lighting changed and the music changed. And then again, she did it again and it kind of softened the mood. And those, like, even though that's a yoga space.

We do it in every space in our home when like you're moving into a new home. You are intentionally going to do things to your home and within your home when you decorate it and with the smells and everything because you want people to notice that they feel welcome and invited and part of your home. And so taking that into classrooms and schools and school districts, that's what becoming the bison is all about. So it's written

Darrin (09:26)

Yeah.

Kim Gameroz (09:46)

As a book, not just for your teachers, but it is for your leaders and it is for your parents as well, especially the parents of our neurodivergent community. So being in the classroom and teaching first grade for years, having lots of students either diagnosed or undiagnosed with autism or ADD or ADHD, when you have kids throwing chairs or jumping on top of tables or eloping.

It really gave me this toolbox of skills to kind of go, what do teachers really need to know about these brains of these kids? And what can they intentionally do in their classrooms to really support all learners? So that is part of it too. It's not just like scratching the surface. It's nothing not surface level stuff. my favorite quote comes from Mitch Weathers, my friend and and colleague, who said, This book isn't about.

Social emotional learning, it is S E L. And I love that because that was truly, you know, my intention behind it was to give people these things they can actually do. They can live each day with intention.

Darrin (10:52)

Yeah, absolutely. I think that's fantastic. So let's let let's push into that a little bit further. So you're you're talking about things that our teachers can do to be more effective with students who who are neurodivergent. So without giving away the whole farm here, let's let's let's maybe dive into one or two that listeners can say, man, I'm gonna take that. I'm gonna I'm gonna go plug that in.

to my classroom when the school year starts, or I'm gonna take that, you know, to my staff as a leader, as this is something they can do. So I don't know, one, two, three different things.

Kim Gameroz (11:28)

I like I

I think let's start with I think the perfect place is the viral anchor chart because I do talk about it in the book and it's like literally a sentence. You wouldn't even know. You wouldn't even know that that's it, but it is leading with feeling is what it is. And doing some sort of feelings check-in with kids. so the anchor chart again is how do you wanna feel at school? Well

For some kids, it's even tricky for them to even identify how they are feeling. And sometimes they get overwhelmed or frustrated with a task and then they lose it and they weren't even to able to identify identify that like little frustration within them at first, and then poof, it turns into, I'm putting in air quotes, a behavior. And teachers wanna like squash the behavior. So instead of that, we're talking about how you want to feel. Well

In my classroom, I want us to feel supported, cared for, safe, loved. I want you to make sure that you feel like you're part of a community, right? Like I want to feel I want you to feel empowered. I want you to feel gifted, right? So all of those words are there. Other side is, well, what do we need to do in order to feel that way? Right. And so that is your social piece. And so your kids with autism, they're they really struggle with the social world. They don't understand how that social world works.

And how they even can work in the world. So we're giving those expected behaviors instead of like rules, right? We're teaching them these are the things that we can do in the classroom, these expected things, so that we can feel this way in the classroom. This is social emotional learning. This is literally the foundation of everything. So as a teacher, I'm gonna put in there some expectations. We can, in order to feel safe, we can keep our hands to ourselves. We can walk in a straight line.

In order to feel like we are empowered, right? What are the things that we can do? You guys, what can I do as your teacher to make you feel empowered in the classroom? Right? I can praise you by saying this. I can give you dojo points. Like you get to have this incredible conversation, and that's what's creating connections from day one. So, as a leader, right, we always say create connections with your kids. Well,

This is an open-ended conversation where you're creating what's expected in the classroom together. You're anchoring it with feelings. But then Darren, like the secret sauce, and this is like the part two of everything. This is when like, you know, the trolls get into the comments. They're like, well, you didn't talk about this. I was like, well, that's part two, right? Well, part two is then you lead with feeling before every transition. How do you want this transition to feel?

Darrin (14:02)

Yeah.

Kim Gameroz (14:10)

We have to move from point A to point B. You've got to get out all these materials. It could feel chaotic in here, but we in this classroom said we want it to feel calm. So what can you do during this transition so that it feels calm? And then they move. And that last piece is gonna be, they're gonna reflect. That transition still didn't feel calm. You guys, you said that you were going to do this and it felt chaotic in here. How do we wanna feel? I don't know. What can we do next time?

And again, it opens up that conversation instead of like squashing behaviors all the time and reacting. Now we're responding and we're leaving with feeling. So that was a mouthful. That was good.

Darrin (14:47)

It was. It was. And and

without saying it, you you went right to being intentional. that that's what I was thinking about multiple times listening to you talk about that. I'm thinking as a as a classroom teacher, I don't know how frequently I was intentional to talk about a transition or in I was a high school science teacher, so maybe I didn't talk necessarily talk about transitions, but even just being intentional with, you know, hey, as we

Kim Gameroz (14:53)

Mm-hmm.

Darrin (15:14)

You know, as we move into cleaning up for this from this lab today or or something like that. That's that's what I'm really hearing you say there. When you're supporting teachers, when you are working with with with leaders who are supporting teachers, how how do we help them be more intentional about those specific things?

Kim Gameroz (15:40)

Okay, so I told you I wanted to talk about this, and this is like the perfect time. It's consistency. When you are consistent in your tone of voice, in the words that you say, right? You're like, if we're always gonna have a transition, because kids are transitioning all day long, right? And they always know that you're gonna front load and you're gonna say, How do we want this to feel? What can we do to make sure that we feel that way? All of a sudden, it creates this.

Predictability within the classroom. And when things feel predictable, your kids feel safe and your kids feel calm and they feel comfortable. And when they feel that way, now all of a sudden they are able to identify how they're feeling. They're able to reach into their toolbox and support themselves. And when they're not, when they struggle with it, you're able to figure out what's what's making it tricky for them. And we, again, this is like all the stuff that I coach into. It's like,

Really drilling down, really drilling down to what is making it tricky for this kid, and then giving them the supports they need to be successful. So consistency, again, that consistency is key with your tone, with the words, with your systems. And then we talk about routines, right? All of those things. When those things are consistent, it creates that predictable classroom.

Which then again, kids feel safe and confident. And then that's when everybody does their best learning and kid and teachers can do their best teaching.

Darrin (17:08)

Absolutely. You're you're making me think about a conversation I had with one of the leadership teams that I support about a week ago, maybe two weeks ago, we were talking about and and this is a district that starts school at the end of July. So they're well into their their prep work, right? and I'll I'll be back there in a couple of weeks. but what we were talking about were the first two weeks of the school year. And

Being super intentional about how you're structuring your classrooms, really intentional about, you know, one of the leaders even said something like, you know, we've got to make sure we stress that teachers, if you give kids free time now, you're never getting them back. I took it a step further with with that leadership team and actually with several leadership teams over the next couple of days after that. What about your first two weeks?

As a leadership team, what what are you going to be to be super super intentional? So let let's lean into that first couple of weeks. So it it's one thing to in March be saying, okay, we're about to have a transition. How do we want to feel? How do you set this up? How do you again be intentional so that in those first two weeks it becomes a habit? It becomes a routine, not just for the kids, but for the teacher. Because we know sometimes as humans,

Kim Gameroz (18:01)

Yeah. Yeah.

Right. Yep.

Darrin (18:31)

We don't keep the habit going. I'll let you run with that.

Kim Gameroz (18:35)

You know,

a visual is always something because I mean, even with visuals as teachers, you forget. There's so many other things that are going on and things that you need to remember. And you know, so and so has to go to the nurse at a certain time, and these three kids are going out to do a rotation and intervention, and then at then at this time we have an assembly and like you can't remember to front-load a transition, right?

However, if there's a visual, that does tend to help. So an again, an anchor chart is always my go-to. And you have to have it in a space where you physically are always going to be. Especially like, let's just start. I would always start with just one time of day. So if it is just like the morning transition before they move from their desk to the carpet, I'm talking about littles, right? Desk to carpet. Or if I'm in middle school, high school, it's before they get out their materials.

Like I'm always gonna go to the visual. I'm always going to stand there in this specific spot and I'm always gonna say the specific phrase. That is where I would start at the beginning of the year. At then I would transition it to students and I would give them cho like choice and voice in it. So a couple years ago, this is the best. We were working with a school district up in Northern California, and we were going through classrooms.

With groups of teachers, and they were like, Kim, you've got to go into this fourth grade classroom. Like, this teacher is just dreamy. And I was like, Okay, well, what is it that she's doing that is so dreamy? She's been taking in all the things that we've been talking about. And what she had done, we're it's probably like halfway through the school year, she created a transition team. Again, I'm just anchoring on transitions because I feel like it's super easy. But she had two fourth graders who stood up at the be at like the front of the like the class and she asked them.

How do you guys want to feel during this transition? And they got to say calm and they got to say confident or whatever, safe, something like that, right? And she's like, okay. And then they like acted out the transition. Kids transitioned at the very end. She's like, transition team, was it calm? Did you feel safe? And they got to like say yes or no. And then they had to have dialogue, like, great, awesome. And then either reward them, praise them, right? Give them table points or

Dojo points or something in a jar, stuffies in a jar, whatever you do, right? To praise them, or reflect and say, What can we do to make it better next time? And that I mean, there were teachers, Darren, in tears. Her colleagues were brought to their knees. They were like, This is possible in here. You mean it doesn't have to be just me, a party of one Mrs. Gamorrose doing all the work all day long. And I think multiplying yourself again, after a couple of weeks, if you can figure out how to multiply yourself and do something like that, it's game changing.

Darrin (21:27)

That is super powerful. I think that and and not only that, I mean you're you're totally empowering your students to take ownership of that. I think that is really, really awesome. thank you for sharing that. ⁓ so folks, if if you haven't already like said, okay, I gotta take some notes on this, rewind and just take some notes on that. That was that was super good. So I want to ask about your community. ⁓ I I I wanna have you talk a little bit about that. I want to have you talk a little bit about

Kim Gameroz (21:29)

Yeah.

Yes. Really.

Yeah.

No.

Darrin (21:55)

your retreats too. I'm super curious about that. I'm sure our listeners are really curious about that. So hey, dealer's choice, whichever one you want to go with first. Let's let's dig into these.

Kim Gameroz (22:05)

Yeah, so individual teachers reach out to me and say, Kim, am frustrated. My administration has said there's no funding for support. we are at our wits' end with behaviors. I'm doing the same thing I've been doing for years, or I just don't know what to do anymore. I'm ready to tap out. I feel like I'm burnt out. That is like the story that I hear over and over again.

And those are usually the teachers where I'm like, okay, it's time. Come here. And so what I do is we have an application process. they fill out an application, I read through it, we kind of talk. Usually it's like an extension. So if you know somebody in the community, it's kind of like a okay, you're you're in, right? and so what we do is we start, well, we already started with our new with our new cohort. So in the summer we start.

We always read a book. This this year we're reading Becoming the Bison by yours truly, which has been so fun to hear their takeaways. But every single week they get an intention from me on Voxer. So we use an app, it's like a walkie-talkie app. Every Monday they hear my voice and I give them like a quick little intention for the week. And then we have multiple cohorts and throughout the week it just goes crazy. So summertime is like

Quiet reflections and their vacations. And then during the school year, it's this is what's happening in my classroom. I am gonna lose it. Somebody help me. What am I gonna do now? Or it's pictures or videos of like, this was amazing. This worked. You guys, you're gonna love it too. Go. And it is so cool to be surrounded by educators who are just like you, who are not ready to tap out, who want to work hard, who

are ready to be consistent and also to get feedback. Because you have to be what we say is, I wanna reach your core, C-O-R-E. I want you to be curious, open, and ready to expand because that's the right mentality that we have. So they get that you get to meet two times over Zoom per month. So that's fun to like connect, but that's not enough. So that's why we have our the bloom retreat.

And we saw the bison last summer. We all went to Wyoming. We saw bison. That was so cool. It was amazing. this year we went to Santa Fe. We needed just to like chill out, shop around, do some yoga, do some hiking. That was amazing, incredible. we've gone to Southern California, we've been to Arizona, to Scottsdale. It's just been such a good time to connect and

Just rejuvenate and get what you need. it isn't, I mean, I know some of the videos and the pictures kind of look like a party, but it is deep reflection. it is a lot of fun, of course, but it is what teachers need. They need to be poured into and they also need to get like the actual stuff, like the next step that they need so that their classroom feels good again and they feel lighter. And so it is about changing.

And supporting the teacher. It isn't necessarily like fix the kids sort of a thing mentality. And so teachers come in and say, like, I am transformed. I feel different as a human as a mother, as a wife, as an educator, I am different. And that's when I know like these are the people. So that's the community.

Darrin (25:26)

I love it. I think that's absolutely fantastic. And certainly, certainly something that, man, there are plenty of people out there who need that type of support. So we'll make sure that we have from you a link to the community that we can put in the show notes. So folks, you can go in there and check that out. man, Kim, our time is just flying by. So we're at that point in show. I'm gonna ask you the same thing. I ask everybody here on the Leaning Into Leadership podcast. how are you leaning into leadership right now?

Kim Gameroz (25:52)

So I really think I know we said it before. I am in a space right now where I have a team and I have teachers across the country. I have schools and school districts that I work with. It's just growing. The herd is growing. And I feel like I am leading with feeling. I would say I'm leaning into this you're gonna lead all of this work with feeling. And I want to feel empowered.

I want to feel rejuvenated. I want to feel motivated. And when I anchor with those things, I know that I am leading in the best way. and I'm also being intentional so others notice.

Darrin (26:34)

it so very much next thanks so much for what you're doing for educators i really really genuinely appreciate it ⁓ man this has been so much fun kim people are definitely going to want to follow you they're gonna want to get in touch with you if they're not already following you how do they best do that

Kim Gameroz (26:35)

Mm-hmm.

Right.

Yeah, so I'm a big Instagram girly. you can find me at Kim Gamorrose. and then we have a second handle. It's Teaching Inside Out. That's mostly for school, school district, and also conference and everything like that. if you go to Kim Gamerose.com, there's two different pathways that you can take. If you are an individual teacher looking for community, it's on the right hand side. Click anywhere, it'll take you where you need to go. And then on the left hand side, it is for individual schools and school districts who are needing that.

district wide transformation, those common systems, common language to support all their teachers. So yeah, you could find me. I I got you.

Darrin (27:27)

Outstanding. Well, we'll make sure that all of that stuff is down in the show notes so people have an opportunity to get connected with you. Man, this was so much fun, Kim. Thanks for joining me here on Leaning Into Leadership.

Kim Gameroz (27:36)

Thanks for having me.

Alright, folks, fantastic conversation today with Kim Gamarose. I really appreciate her coming and joining me here on the podcast. And honestly, that one was a long time coming. We've been talking about it for quite some time and finally had the opportunity to sit down and hit the record button. If you're not already connected with Kim, make sure you hit all of her links down there in the show notes and go pick up a copy of Becoming the Bison. And now it's time for a pep talk. So this week, what I want to talk about is some of the work, honestly, that I was doing.

Earlier in the week. I spent the week in both Virginia and on Long Island in New York working with leadership teams. I had some leadership coaching I was doing, but most importantly, two intensive leadership workshops that I led. One with the executive cabinet of one district, one with the executive cabinet and principal leadership teams of another district. And here's why I want to talk about this today. I think it is so critical.

That we lean in and give leaders the opportunity to take a step back, to really reflect, but also to make sure that every voice in the room has an opportunity to put their thinking physically in front of everyone else. You see, as I did this work, and I think I'm actually gonna do a full podcast episode about that specific work here in the next couple of weeks. But some of what we were doing was really capturing.

What do we see as being successful? What do we have as burning questions around certain topics? And what is it that has caught us by surprise or that we might do a little bit differently? Specifically when we look at things like organizational culture, when we look at student outcomes, when we look at communication, or even simply when we look at how are we coaching and growing those around us? That was some of the work that I got to do this week, and I'll share a takeaway from one of the individuals.

One of the individuals that I had the opportunity to visit with afterwards is a finance officer. So the chief financial officer for one of the districts. We spent probably a half hour after our event talking. And really, it was mostly him talking. And what he kept saying was how important it is and how grateful he was to see all of the leaders in the district have the opportunity to sit.

And have meaningful conversations that were guided and facilitated, but also that gave them the opportunity to reflect and to learn more from each other. You see, as a school finance officer, thinking about impacts on teaching and learning aren't necessarily where this person would normally go, but because of a deeply reflective conversation where he simply focused on asking good questions of a building administrator.

He had the opportunity not only to learn so much about that leader, but about how that leader thinks of instruction, and for himself to think a little bit deeper about the impact that the decisions we make have on student outcomes. Look, I'm telling you this story for this reason. And again, I think I'm gonna do a whole separate podcast episode on this. Folks, if you have not set the time aside, if you have not

Brought in someone else to facilitate the work because you need to be a participant in the work. And you can't participate and facilitate at the same time, not effectively. But if you haven't done that work, ask yourself why? What is keeping me from giving my team the opportunity to grow, to thrive, and to truly do their very best work? Again, leadership, it's all about intentional creation of conditions.

Or other people can do their best work. Think about that for your leadership team. It's absolutely critical. And if you're thinking, all right, Darren, I want to talk to you about this, reach out. Just send me an email, Darren at RoadtoAwesome.net, or hit us on the website. Either one. Folks, thank you so much for spending some time with me here on the Leaning Into Leadership podcast this week. Thank you for listening in to my conversation with Kim. And as always, get out there, have a Road to Awesome week.