Habit Stacking: Our Tips, Tricks, and Hacks for Experiencing Success

0:02 Welcome to the Catching Up with Casey show. If you are tired of chasing buy in, frustrated with teams who can't seem to get on the same page, or over the constant struggle of holding people accountable without micromanaging, this is the show for you. I'm Casey Watts, speaker, author and the creator of the Clarity Cycle Framework. I help leaders just like you take teams from frustration to alignment, so teams can work collectively toward a common purpose in a committed way instead of against each other as though they are functioning in different organizations. And we do it all through the craft of clarity. Whether you lead from the middle or you are the front facing leader of your organization.

0:45 On this show, we bring clarity to the seemingly small things in leadership that make the biggest difference, because clarity precedes capacity. Now, with all of that said, let's dive into today's episode. Well, hi everybody. Welcome to another episode. I am pumped about today's episode. I'm probably more excited about today's episode than I've been about an episode in a long time. And I don't know exactly why that is.

1:27 I think I just like started having all of these ideas come to me for our content that we're going to talk about today, but also because I have Lindsay Deacon with me here and we talk about habits all the time. So with that said, Lindsay, tell us a little bit about who you are and the work that you do. Hey, thanks for having me. I'm Lindsay Deacon, mostly well known for the Edge of Coach Survival Guide, but I am an instructional leadership coach and an author. And yeah, just your your daily Marco Polo pal. That's right, and you also recently published another book as well. I did, yeah, we did the the presentation survival guide. I, I'm trying to think of the tagline. I'm like, I don't even know what it is. I can't remember.

2:17 It's, well, it's, I know, it's really, it's so funny. I'm so glad you said that. I I mean that makes me so happy because for the longest time I had to look at my book to tell people what the subtitle was. Yeah. It's like, and I think sometimes I told people the title, like title is easy, the craft of clarity, but then I was like and the and the subtitle is 6 ways Foster and commitment. It was just like, do I even know what I wrote? I do, but subtitles. Seem as important as the main title anyway. Yeah, so I feel you. So what's the tell a little bit about the Presentation Survival Guide? Presentation We presenters the presenter Survival guide. I believe it's tips, tricks, tools for leading adult work without losing your weight or losing your mind. I'm pretty sure that's what it is, but we collected 30 of the most common dilemmas that presenters face, mostly in person, but a lot of them are virtual as well. For instance, you planned this big presentation and then only three people show up.

3:32 Or maybe you show up to the space and nothing is set up for you or your tech fails, you know, 30 seconds and you know. And so essentially we've created plans like ABC how to quickly and proactively address any of those dilemmas. And we talked with presenters all over the world. Just give us your best hacks that you've had in real life rather than like focusing solely on research because theory is always great. But we really love relevant and practical tools because in education especially, it's like you don't have a lot of time, you don't have a lot of support, So what are you going to do in the moment?

4:14 And nobody's better than educators at like, just fixing it, right? Just in the moment, like figuring it out. Yeah, man, that's great. I could see especially for instructional coaches who lead a lot of PD and you're not, you're not always prepped for that, right? Like as an instructional coach or even an instructional leader, like a campus administrator. I think that's one of the things that you don't really get a lot of training for is, hey, guess what? You're going to have to lead some PD or facilitate team meetings and you're going to come up against some things that we didn't quite prepare you for. So it's a great tool for that. And the way that it's organized too is very much like your education survival guide. So you really could pick up like you could go to any part of part of the book as needed, right?

5:04 Yeah. It's not meant to be read cover to cover. It is like straight up the survival guide. Yes. Awesome. OK, which it's not at all what our episode is about today, but I am super excited about this episode. We're talking about habit stacking and it is actually, it is kind of connected because it's our tips, tricks and hacks for experiencing success. And what's interesting is we talked about doing this episode a while back. And then last week I did an episode and it was all about the, the happiness habit or that the habits that bring you happiness. And so I told her today we're going to be doing an episode.

5:45 We're talking about habit stacking and the way that this is going to work. So just so our listeners are clear, we're going to tell you a little bit about what we mean by habit stacking. We're going to talk about the purpose of habit stacking. And then Lindsay and I are going to kind of volley back and forth and share some of our own habits that we've stacked. And I one thing I love about this is I have no idea what you're going to be sharing, Lindsay, and you have no idea which habits I'm going to be sharing. So and then yeah, they could be like personal like in your personal life or they could be in your work life. But I want to preface this by saying or encouraging you, listener, not to think about these as habits you need to take on, but just thinking about them as ideas that will support the habits that you develop.

6:33 So take it and then modify it and change it to match whatever's going to work for you. OK. So Lindsay, let's talk about first, I would love for you to share what your brief like definition is for habit stacking. My personal definition is stacking a habit that I don't enjoy with a habit I do enjoy. Yeah, just to make it more rewarding and I think get me to not blow off the responsible habit that I do need to do in order to make it work. What's yours? Yeah, yeah.

7:13 Mine would be very much the same thing. I just think about it as layering a new habit with a habit that's already in place so that you can more easily develop a new habit. So in thinking about this, I was reading up on it. I mean, there are a lot of things that we already know about habit stacking, just that you're able, if you are stacking a habit with a habit that already exists, you are creating like these new neurological pathways. Your brain craves these routines. And so we're just implementing an additional piece of a routine on top of a routine that's already in place. It's just like an X of an already a habit that's already in place.

8:00 So yeah, I what would be the purpose in your opinion? What would be the purpose of someone habit stacking? Like why would they? Why would they think about trying to have it stacked? Well, I would say the purpose of habits in general is so that we can not just be more productive, but feel like we're using our time more intentionally on a regular basis. And so if you are stacking habits, you're basically setting intentions to do kind of do the tasks that in my mind that maybe you don't particularly look forward to and have more joy in like just your general routines in life. Because productivity is great, right? Like, but I think there is a point where it's like we, we are sucking ourselves dry, like got to be more productive. I think they're like, there is that sense, especially like the last 15 years of like being more productive, be more productive. And that doesn't necessarily make your life more enjoyable or more rewarding.

9:02 So I think habit stacking to me is more balancing your your goals for yourself. Yes, I love that so much. And that's one of the things that I thought about today too, is why would I have it stuck? Like what? What would bring me to want to have it stuck? And you don't do it just because you want to develop some random new habit. Usually that habit is tied to a goal that you're working towards. So with all of that said, let's dive into it. And let me say too, like your goal could be, it could be a fitness goal, it could be it could be a health goal, it could be a personal goal, it could be a work related goal. So you're going to hear our habits probably tied to one of any of those goals as we go through it.

9:47 So do you want to start us off on? Like what some of the goals I have are or like the habits I do? Habits, yeah. The habits, What's a what's a habit? Yeah. Well, I, I would say that I started habit stacking years ago. I was reading a lot of Gretchen Rubin's work. She's like one of my favorite people who writes about habits and happiness. And so I was always thinking about how much I hated folding laundry. It was the most mundane task. It's so boring. It's all the time. I was not good at like, dragging my laundry to the place we need to go, you know? And like people who like often have piles of laundry, it's like you got it washed, but then you don't actually fold it.

10:28 I was definitely one of those. And she was talking about just stacking habits in general, something you enjoy. And I thought, well, maybe if I just rewatch my favorite TV shows, which I'm going to do anyway while I fold laundry, I can kind of reframe how I approach this task 'cause I liked clean and it totally worked. Like laundry is now, years later, my favorite, my favorite thing to do. Like today, full laundry is on the list. And I can't wait because I'll rewatch like I love Game of Thrones or Mad Men, and it gives me permission to watch something I've seen a million times before while just sort of finishing a regular task I have to do.

11:10 I would also say one of my favorites. Oh wait, I'm going to go to yours now you tell me. What's yours? OK, so I mine's very much related to this and I do I love, I think I use especially as I've gotten older, but also in having kids or whatever. I just one of my down times is folding laundry because it gives me an excuse to sit and just watch TV and enjoy it. So love that habit. I have another one that's related to laundry, so I laundry. It's so funny that that's probably on everybody realize. This is actually like a home organization episode, yeah. Listen, we didn't say experience success necessarily in work, but it could be work or life in general.

11:52 But I would say too, if you're feeling more productive and successful at home and some of those things, it's it's going to allow you to be more productive and find successful work. So every morning I have the routine of feeding my dogs and then after I feed my dogs, I go and make coffee. So it's almost like, OK, you fed the dogs, now you can have your coffee. I pass by the washer and dryer every single morning. I mean, washer and dryer is right there where I feed the dogs. So I've kind of to include kind of stacked the habit where I feed the dog. Go with my.

12:32 Coffee or go make coffee. I just do one load of laundry. Like it could be folding the laundry that's in the dryer and then putting what's in the washer in the dryer and putting something in the washer. Or it could be like, well, there's nothing in the dryer. Thank goodness. I get excited about that. So I'm going to take whatever's in the washer and put it in the dryer and I'm done. I'm done with that. And then I just move on. So it allows me to get at least one load done a day and it takes no time at all. It's just a quick little addition to a routine that I already have in place. Yeah, yeah, yeah, great. Love it. Yeah, well, we are both authors. And so I feel like I had to really develop a lot of routines in terms of just getting writing done because it's a lot more work than most people realize.

13:20 Even then, I realized in the beginning and my editor had a lot of really great sort of hacks to help me just write more, edit more, just kind of work through the writing process more often. And I'll say that because I am somebody who likes to move often when we are sort of working on a draft or maybe even editing, I will go walk on the treadmill. And I'm not even, I'm not walking fast, but I will walk on the treadmill with like the paper manuscript and my highlighter. And I'll say that like, I can get an hour of walking and an hour of editing done really quickly, whereas it might have been a little painful to sit down with my writing for an hour in that case.

14:06 And I would say at the same time, like he's also shared, like if you're standing in line, like you're waiting in Starbucks, like open your notes app really quick, like jot down thoughts you're having or like review notes you have. So I would say that's another form of habit stacking that I've done where I'm like combining life, like personal life and work life into one. Yeah, that's. Great and leads really well into the next habit that I have. So let's say you no, you want to implement healthier habits in your life, right? So and, and one of those could be walking. And so I and I was not great at this. I wish I would have done this more earlier in my career, but I think about just a walk and talk. So if or like a walking meeting.

14:57 So the, the research shows when you, if you can implement 10 minutes of exercise after about 30 to 60, like 30-60 minutes after eating, it will increase your metabolism, it decreases your insulin levels, it can decrease like blood sugar and, and even that plus we know, we know what activity does for our brain as well. So if you could, let's say you're eating lunch, maybe I would say even 15 minutes later, maybe 2020 minutes later have a standing walking meeting. And that could be I'm walking for 10 minutes. And during that meeting, I have a standing meeting with a colleague of mine. And every day or every other day, this is what we're talking about.

15:44 We're just touching base. So I'm thinking if you are an instructional leader, that might be a great time to walk with your instructional coach just to do a quick check in, update, whatever or whoever it might be. Or it could be a standing meeting with a friend because we just want to catch up and we're going to use that 10 minutes to do that. Or it could be a walking meeting with yourself where you are kind of, like you said, just kind of collecting your thoughts, getting ready for the rest of the day, preparing yourself. So you're not only getting in that walk, but you're also getting in that standing meeting and that conversation that you need to have. So I wish I, I did that a lot. And I still do walk or do some sort of activity after lunch typically. And for me, that's when it's because, you know, I work on my own now.

16:32 It's typically in a standing meeting with myself. So yeah. I love that because I'm thinking about, I've had coaches that I coach, instructional coaches and when we have had our walking meetings, like I can go back in time and remember like in 2017, I was on a walk with so and so and I like, remember what we were talking about and I can see the park that we were walking through in my mind. So I don't actually know the research on the retention that adding movement to a meeting ads, but I'm certain that there has got to be a correlation. And I, I think we all know like even just spending 10 minutes outside is really good for our brains and our bodies anyway. Even, you know, if you're just talking about grounding yourself, what are they talking about now? Touching grass?

17:20 You got to go out and touch grass to ground. And so, yeah. Interesting. So and I'm, I'm thinking about a time like I used to go on just to have a walking meeting with one of the assistant principals in an elementary school that I worked in. And we, we were in the hallway, so we didn't even get to go outside. But even that, you're right, I remember our conversations, I remember the paths that we took. So there's definitely got to be something behind. That we'll have to earmark that for more, more investigation. OK, your turn. What you got next? Do you have another one? Well, you know, one thing that really is top of mind for me this time of year, especially in January, is also that I set an annual bucket list every year, right? I've been doing this is my 16th year of setting goals. And so I usually set 20 to 25 goals for myself that are personal, professional, all the above. And I've learned a lot as well as just spent a ton of time researching like how do you really achieve a goal? And one of the things that research, I think it's sort of counterintuitively says is that when you publicly share your goal and then you're trying to establish hablit habits to reach that goal, it doesn't really work because you get this sort of like pre emptive praise from people around you. If I said, you know, I, oh, actually I have a new one right now I'm using an old school alarm clock because I'm trying to reduce my screen time.

18:49 But if I just told everybody, hey everybody, I'm trying to reduce my screen time by three hours a day, People go good for you. Like, and then you're, you get like an immediate dopamine hit and you are actually less motivated to do it. Whereas instead I'm focusing on the process, which is I'm just using an old school alarm clock and I'm plugging my phone in downstairs every night. And so the process really is more muddling through how this works for me. And I feel like it's really interesting. I can't believe how many people even yesterday somebody said, how's that old school alarm clock thing going for you, right? Rather than how's the reducing your screen time. And that really actually is much more motivating and gives us more of a sense of control of like how we're going to get to the goal. Does that make sense?

19:38 Yeah, yeah, it absolutely allows people to hold you accountable without you really intentionally asking them to hold you accountable because now they know the process. They don't just know like, this is what my goal is. But here's the process. Yeah, so my habit stacking in that case is like plugging my phone in downstairs while also setting my old school alarm clock. And so those go together and I can't every single night. At this point. We're still, we're at the end of January. I still unconsciously walk upstairs with my phone in my hand and then I look at the old school alarm clock and I go and then I go back downstairs, plug in my phone, walk back, right. So it's like I'm learning, but it's working. Yeah, right.

20:22 And that's an important piece of this is the learning part of it. There take it takes quite a bit of intentionality in the beginning. And I think to like there, I think there could be some processes that you put in place where it signals to you that, Oh yeah, this is something that I I'm trying to do everyday or I'm trying to stack this habit. So I'm just kind of thinking about like back to laundry. I might actually need to put a sticky note on the dog food bowl for myself. Like don't forget you're doing laundry before you get coffee, just until it becomes something that you're aware of. And even then sometimes I might be aware of it and and say to myself I don't really want to do that though. Put your coffee mug like on the washer. Yeah, Yeah.

21:07 There you go. It's empty and you put it in the inside the washing machine like you're going to have to open the washing machine in order to get. Your coffee? Yeah. That's so funny. OK, so something that I was thinking about because I was really trying to think back to my time in schools and this is not something that I did well. And I, I want to say I want, I wonder if this is you too. Maybe we've talked about this before, but I sucked at turning in attendance. Oh my gosh. Every day somebody would call the classroom or come over the intercom to, it doesn't matter what school I was in. What?

21:49 However, they got in touch with you, they were getting in touch with me and they were like, hey, you need to send somebody down with your attendance. I was like, Oh my gosh, OK. Can I ask a question about that? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Is it because it's probably a leading question because attendance didn't really matter that much to you one? 100% and because of that, I would send it down and it wasn't accurate. So because I was like oh OK, I'll send down attendance. So I'm just going to sign it and send it. But yeah, it was a problem. And you're right. I was like, this is a such a menial piece of my day that I want to get it done and move on or I don't want to get it done at all.

22:30 I don't really care about it. But I was thinking this morning, like if you're developing the habit of of turning in attendance, but also you're trying to eat healthier, it could be that your treat for turning in attendance on time so you have a set time every day. I know that I want to have a healthy snack that I'm looking forward to every day at 9:00 when I turn in attendance, then I can have this snack or something to that effect. Like it could be, you know, I'm pre packaging some almonds or whatever healthy food snack you're wanting to eat that day. And maybe it's I know every day I go to the copy room to check my inbox.

23:20 So I'm going to maybe when I get to work, I'm going to put my bag of almonds in my box and then when I come back to it later, I've got my almond sitting there and I can eat those all the way back to the classroom. So just small things like that be habits that you stack. Yeah, I feel though, even though I know what the research says, I do feel like some social persuasion or pure influence would be helpful because I'm trying to think like what would have motivated me to get my attendance in. And I think I would have appreciated maybe if it was kind of almost like a joke where if I'd told everybody in the school, listen, this month I'm going to get my attendance in. And then when people saw me, they'd be like, Lindsay, did you get the attendance?

24:04 You know, like, and then if I said yes, they'd be like, go you, you know what I'm saying? Like, because I think it would have been funny because I'm trying to think what would have truly moded me, motivated me. You can't you can't say like I'm going to make more money or even that I'm going to feel my life is, you know, more rewarding from turning in attendance. So I think you're bringing up an important point of like, there are a lot of really small, especially when your teacher, there's so many stupid little things that you have to do that are just compliance driven. And we have so many important things to do. Like how do you unlock getting those done without having it be obnoxious I suppose.

24:45 Yes. Too bad we didn't. Yeah, too bad we didn't have ChatGPT back then, because you talked about how encouraging ChatGPT was to you when you were using it. Well, I use Claude now, but AI in general, yeah. So actually even this first thing this morning, I'm like excited to sit down at my laptop Monday mornings because what I usually prompt is gamify my weekly To Do List. I mean, I've started doing that probably about a year ago. Just gamify my weekly To Do List. And then I put in Monday, here's my tasks, Tuesday, here's my tasks. Or sometimes I don't even say like what day. And then it will assign like tailored, customized rewards that it because I'm a heavy AI user.

25:27 It it knows what I want and I find that it's extremely motivating. I'm also somebody who played a lot of video games. I'm like a I'm like a game sort of psychologically motivated person, but it will categorize things like, oh, this is your big picture strategic work. This is these are all of your coaching tasks or relationship driven. These are sort of like your day-to-day business tasks. And that really strangely motivates me. But I do feel like quad just using AI as like unlocking a secret habit in my mind, because if I'd done it once or twice and I didn't like it, I would have ditched it. But it is. It's like Monday morning, Let's go show.

26:09 And it makes it pretty. It makes it colorful. Yeah, yeah. I haven't started doing that just yet. I probably need to try it out. I'm not much of AI, don't love to do lists and I'm not I don't check. I mean I do check things off but it's I'm just not A to do list creator. Then maybe you won't like it because I live and die by it. Actually, yeah, yeah, I might not, but it's something that you have to know yourself. Yeah, that's true. But maybe AI could acclimate to my preferences, you know? So maybe I'm not a checklist person, but I'm a big picture thinker and I still could gamify that.

26:54 And I do still enjoy rewarding myself. So at the end of this week, I will reward myself for whatever I've accomplished that week. In some way, yeah. Yeah. OK, so I just want to pull up. Doctor Amy Perez is in the chat on LinkedIn. Thanks for joining us today, Amy. She said choose your hard creating new habits or Breaking Bad ones. See. I think the way to break bad habits is to replace it with a new one. I think it's, I think they go together, right. Yeah, OK. Can we let's be really vulnerable? What? Well, actually, I think we could be vulnerable about this. You've already talked about this, but there's what you feel like is a bad habit that you've replaced with a new one, which is your alarm clock, right?

27:40 Screen screen time in general, I and I try to be so mindful. I taught mindfulness, I was a mindfulness teacher. I still spend a lot of time on my phone playing around So and I think the way that how habit forming devices are that it's only going to get worse and worse and worse every year that we move forward. And so I'm really trying to disrupt that bad habit as much as possible. I'm not trying to just quit devices, just reduce by replacing it with other things. Yeah, yeah, that's a good point. I mean, I have the same. I'm not like I don't use social media a lot, but what I am looking at on my phone are my e-mail notifications. I'm really and I've always been bad about that Even so. I mean for as long as I can remember, I check my e-mail like probably every 5 minutes.

28:40 It's really kind of it's weird. I don't know what it is about me that causes me to do that, but so for my phone, I've just started intentionally either putting it on or I'll leave it in a different room. But putting it on Do Not Disturb has been really helpful because if you put it on Do Not Disturb, you're not getting any notifications. And if I don't see a red dot, I'm not going to pick it up and start like checking things out. So that's been helpful. For me too, well, that is also why I plug my phone in is because I'm using Dan Pink's strategy phone in the foyer, I believe is what it's called. It's just like the idea that, like, you plug your phone in into a place that, like, you know, where you can find it, but it needs to be plugged in and not in your immediate vicinity. Because the idea is like, I could still plug my phone in and turn it off or have it in the bedroom, but I am plugging it in in the kitchen, but in the foyer. You know, phone in the foyer is his strategy. So I'm kind of taking that strategy and applying it to my goal of reducing screen time.

29:44 Yeah. That's awesome. OK. Any other habits that you're thinking of? Oh man, You know, I'm always trying new things, reducing others. I don't think there's anything specific that I'm doing right now because I think also when you try to implement too many habits that's overwhelming. It's easy to forget. And so again, about being really intentional is like focusing on one thing and then once it becomes automated in your life, then you can layer on something else. And I feel like I read somewhere it's like, oh, it takes 21 days to do a habit. Oh, it takes 210 days.

30:25 It like, I don't know that there's like one specific number to implement a habit. I think it's when it becomes automated and you kind of go, oh, I'm just doing that now. Right. Yeah, right, right. This is what I do. This is a part of my regular team. Yeah. OK. Yeah, I think we each shared 3. Again, if you're listening to this, keep in mind that this could give you ideas about other ways that you personally could have it stacked both in your personal life and in your work life or in both because they really can't. They really do overlap. You know, I, we hear so much about work life, but they're what's the new, the newest way to think about that is I've heard people talk about work life harmony. So there's a harmony between the two instead of a balance because I think sometimes, like for me, it's hard to shut work off that my brain just doesn't work that way and don't do well compartmentalizing and never believe one is bleeding into the other.

31:31 But it doesn't affect me negatively. So, yeah. So just think about how these habits help you to brainstorm what that could look like in your own life. We would love to hear about these habits. If you are willing to drop us a comment, send us an e-mail. We would love to hear about these habits that you that you utilize or how the what we've talked about would be beneficial in your own life. What are some final thoughts that you have, Lindsay, about habit stacking or habits in general? You know, when I am coaching new teachers especially, the number one thing I always try to work with them on is establishing habits because there's so much to do.

32:15 So I think habits just make our lives easier if as long as they're productive, good habits, right? But I feel like really having a clear sense of what habits and routines make your life easier is really important. And why not sit down at the dinner table and like, talk with your family about it as well? Because I think it's always good to have a conversation just like we are right now. It just makes you more reflective about your habits. Yeah, which you have just caused me to think about. What am I going to talk about with my family at dinner tonight? And my kids are in their teenage years, so now is the time to start really developing some positive. Habits.

32:57 So yeah, I I feel. Like it's so funny. We could, I could just keep talking about like we could keep going. We're going to close and tell our listeners where they can find you. They can find me on LinkedIn, Lindsay Deakin, but you can also find us at our website, which is www.edgeofcoachsurvivalguide.com. OK, and that will be in the show notes so you guys can reach out and learn more about Lindsay, connect with Lindsay and the work that they are doing. OK, So I think one thing that I might do, Lindsay and you can help me brainstorm this is I might just create like A1 pager and put it in the show notes as well about just think about when you're habit stacking.

33:42 Yeah, I like it. OK, cool. OK. Well, thanks for joining me today. Thank you for having me. All right, guys, we will catch you in the next episode. Bye, everybody. Hey listener, I am so honored that you listen to today's episode and I hope you gained something valuable from it. I'd also be honored if you did ME3 solid favors. First, subscribe to this show. I've got a lot of great content coming up, and I don't want you to miss any of it. Second, be sure you're following me on social media platforms. You can find me at. Catch up with Casey on LinkedIn or Instagram. And finally, if you were looking to book a dynamic and relatable speaker for your next event, conference, or retreat, I would love to bring a message about how the crash of clarity makes a significant impact on both leadership and life.

34:32 Until next time, always remember clarity precedes capacity.