What You Do Is Not Who You Are with Justin Pohlmann

0:02 Welcome to the Catching Up with Casey show. If you are tired of chasing buy in, frustrated with teams who can't seem to get on the same page, or over the constant struggle of holding people accountable without micromanaging, this is the show for you. I'm Casey Watts, speaker, author and the creator of the Clarity Cycle Framework. I help leaders just like you take teams from frustration to alignment, so teams can work collectively toward a common purpose in a committed way instead of against each other as though they are functioning in different organizations. And we do it all through the craft of clarity. Whether you lead from the middle or you are the front facing leader of your organization.

0:45 On this show, we bring clarity to the seemingly small things in leadership that make the biggest difference because clarity precedes capacity. Now with all of that said, let's dive into today's episode. Hey everybody, welcome to another episode. What's really cool is I've got almost back-to-back episodes this week and I love when that happens because it just energizes me so much. So tonight I am joined with Justin Pullman.

1:29 We're going to be bringing clarity to kind of like what I'm going to say say is transitions in your life and really the focus is or the the title of the episode is what you do is not who you are. So Justin, welcome to the show. Super excited to have you here. Tell everyone a little bit about who you are and the work that you do. Awesome. Well, thank you for having me here. And also that really, the intro video was awesome, by the way. I love that. But no, it's yeah, like I said, I'm Justin. And So what I do is I do two things. So by day, I'm a recruiter. And so I spend, you know, my my Monday through Friday, you know, helping find people jobs at our organization that I work with. And then on the side, I'm also a career coach. And not just like a helping people find their next job, but really helping them find the work that they're wired to do. And so yeah, that's what I've been working on. Yeah, and this topic is super relevant because no, stop. I'm going to stop there because I could dive into it really quickly and I know we're going to get to it. So I'm not going to jump the gun. OK?

2:35 Justin, you and I go way back, like years and years back. I'm going to say back to college years. Like you were still in college. I mean, this was like harvest point days. It was. It was way back there. It was way back and that we, I mean, have kind of kept touch over social media over the years, but we found each other on LinkedIn and you started posting a lot of things about the coaching that you're doing. And I was like, Oh my gosh, this ties in so well, especially this time of year for so many of the people who are listening to this podcast, because everyone starts to think around October, November, December, like, what are my plans moving forward?

3:17 Am I going to have to start getting a resume ready? Like, and I think what we're going to talk about today is going to highlight some of that so much. I'm really excited to really pull apart or peel back the layers of attaching yourself to your title. So fun fact, everybody, and I know Justin, you're going to talk about this a little bit, but we we're part of a like I sang and you played drums in were we at harvest point when we did? That we were that wasn't harvest point. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That was a lot of fun. That's that's where we met. We were, we were being a worship band on on Sunday mornings in a small East Texas church and so. Yeah.

4:02 It was so much fun. Yeah. So with that in mind, and you could tell a little bit about that or you could tell about something else, we, I always like to ask my guests like what's just something average, ordinary about you that people can relate to? I love that question. I think actually two things that probably most people can relate to 1, I, I drink probably an unhealthy amount of coffee both in the morning and throughout the day. And then as much as I would love to say that we are super adventurous people, you know, after we get the kids to bed and it's just my wife and I, we finally get to unplug and watch ATV show that we get to watch. We really just cycle through like the same 4 shows over and over again. We don't, we don't ever watch anything new. OK.

4:45 What are your shows? So friends, you know what? When we were first married, that was all we had. Like we never had. Like we were too poor to afford cable. We, we was PO. Like I was so like, we couldn't even afford to be poor. We was PO and so we had DVDs of friends. That was it. So we have a friend's quote for everything at our house, but friends How I Met Your mother and then like Scrubs or there's like there's some variety on the like the last three, but like Scrubs or community have been like the go to lately. That's so funny. So we are the same but with for me friends for sure, but Cliff doesn't really my husband Cliff for listeners who aren't familiar with who Cliff is, but he he enjoys friends, but he does. He can't quote it like I can, but you know, Jules Brooks. Right, OK.

5:34 So she can quote Friends like in every conversation in any way possible. And I'm not quite to that extent, but I'm pretty pretty much a big fan of Friends. But my show, our show, like Cliff and I quote The Office all the time. It's almost annoying to other people. But not I'm actually kind of embarrassed that I didn't mention the office in our list that I do love the office. So much how dare. How dare that not make the very top of your list. I know it was, it was, it's it's live. It's it's nerd. It's OK. I forgive you. So, yeah. All right, this is awesome. I love that unique thing because, man, it is so ordinary. And I'm the same way.

6:20 I want us to dive into tonight's topic and I want you to start. Let me, let me start just by setting the stage for those of you that are listening and you are in, especially if you were an educator. We get to, like I said, October, November. And we start thinking like you're just especially if you're someone like me, it's you're always thinking about what's next for me. What, what is the my next goal? What's the challenge that I want to take on? And you start to think about positions. And it's interesting. I felt, and I'm so curious to know if you felt this way too, Justin, but I felt as an educator who moved into owning a business, that was the hardest transition to feel like it was OK to say I am a business owner because I identified so much with. I am an educator.

7:16 And once you put yourself in that box, man, it's really tricky to break outside of that box and feel comfortable with this. So I, I want to know just in about a time that you lacked clarity around like who you were and got so involved in what it was that you were doing that it became you. Absolutely. So for me, that was definitely music. So yeah, we met when we were still playing at church and, and, you know, having aspirations of, of making a living playing music. And thankfully I had an opportunity just through a lot of a lot of work to actually make a living playing music for a while. I got the tour full time. I was teaching drum lessons, all of those things. You know, the dream of anybody that picks up an instrument, right, Like I did it.

7:57 My job is hitting things with sticks I've made. I've arrived, but the sad reality is that tours and babies is a terrible combo. And so life on the road plus life as a dad was just two things for us, that we're not compatible. And so I knew I had to get off of the road, but so I I took a job because I realized at that point in my life, I had two marketable skills. I could hit things with sticks and I could talk to people. And apparently only one of those counted in the real world. So I landed at a car dealership, which I thought was going to be fine. I was like, yeah, it's fine. But it wasn't until the drumming went away that I realized I had everything about who I was wrapped up into that, you know, I wanted. And I really looking back on it now, I was, I was probably just as annoying as like CrossFit people. Like everybody that I met was like, hey, I'm, I'm a drummer. Hey, I think I have some way to work it into a conversation. That was awful.

8:47 And so, but when I landed at the different job and the drumming went away, I was like, I don't know who I am. I don't know how I fit into the adult world. I'm like, I'm AI hit things with sticks. That's who I was like, what do I do next? So that was that was the moment where I was like, oh, I've got everything that I am wrapped up into this. And so Fast forward for a few years, because the IT, it took me, it literally took me about three years to kind of figure it out. I just kind of went through the motions. I was numbed everything for a little while, like just gonna go, I don't know what's going on. And so, yeah, it took, took me a lot to work all of that out. But once I did, it was actually through another bad job. And sometimes the best way to learn what you're supposed to do is take the job that you're not supposed to do. But I, I went into a sales role because like all of the online personality tasks were like, you should be in sales. I'm like, I don't want to be in sales. I'm a horrible salesperson.

9:41 I didn't like selling cars. Why would I like selling something else? But I'm also a slow learner. And so I was like, yeah, sure, I'll, I'll try a sales job. And so I was doing the sales job thing and something came across in the training that I realized that I was on the wrong side of the conversation. And so it was like a role play exercise where like as a salesperson, I was selling something to an HR department and we were talking about their problems. And I was like, those problems sound way more interesting than what I'm doing right now. And then the sales trainer mentioned this phrase that I love is like, no problem, no sale and meaning like if you can't uncover your client's problems, you can't pitch a solution to it and all of that. But what it did for me was it gave me an Ave. to reverse engineer my career.

10:22 And so I was like, OK, well, what are the problems that I see in my professional life that I wish I could fix? And so for me, like everything LED towards HR, like the onboarding, the, the job searching, job searching sucks. And so I'm like, if I could help people with that, that would be way better. You know, what brings somebody from like a, a stranger to a colleague? I'm like, I can help with that. And everything just led to HR for, for me. And I was like, Oh, that's what I'm supposed to be doing. And then that's what started my journey to where Ledger recruiting and and career coaching, everything where I'm at now. And what's your very favorite thing about what you do right now, both as a recruiter but also as a coach, because you coach as well? Yes. So on the recruiting side, my absolute favorite thing is when I can help somebody that is clear on what they want to do connect to a job that's bigger than themselves.

11:11 So that's always super rewarding when you've got something that's really clear on what they want and you get that kind of help be that bridge to the position that they want. That's so, so, so rewarding. On the coaching side, it's kind of getting them to that point to where they're so clear on what they want, helping them work through the lost identity, helping them understand that their identity, their purpose, all of those things have nothing to do with their job. And then working through that because that's a, that's a bold thing to say. And a lot especially like in the, in the world of like social media where everything's about finding your purpose and your passion and all of those things. And it's like, OK cool, but they have nothing to do with your job. Yeah, wow. So can you say more about that? I want you to unpack that a little bit more because you're right, you hear so many people really push for people to to figure out what the purpose is or calling all of that. Just unpack like what else is on your mind about that? Yeah, absolutely.

12:10 So I think it starts with identity. So I think understanding who you are is separate from what you do, Yes, what you do and like all the other things kind of play into who you are. But it your job is not your personality, right? Like, so getting clear on your core values, what your core beliefs are and anchoring your identity in that. So that's always Step 1 is just making sure you're really clear on your values and, and what you believe in. And then for the purpose piece, the purpose piece is like, OK, that's the big question, right? What am I supposed to do with my life? What am I here for? And so for me, like the, the route I always go with at first is, you know, you know me like we're you and I believe very similarly.

12:51 And so as a man of faith, I'm like, look, God gave us our purpose. It's to go love others, spread the gospel, make disciples, end of list. Has nothing to do with the job. Not for those that don't believe that. Totally fine, but your purpose is always going to be something bigger and it's always going to be focused around other people. And so it's finding those people that you want to serve. Again, that's still not a job. It's still it's focused around serving other people. Yeah. And then then I like to drill down to like, OK, well, what about like a calling or, or a mission or passions, like those kind of three things that kind of separate them out a little bit. And so your passion or your calling is the people that you want to serve. Like I think those those people that you because I think when anybody stops to really think about the problems that they see, there's certain areas that kind of stick out to them more. Like certain people are more, you know, they care about more things than others.

13:39 A joke about it, like in the church settings, like the people that get upset about the things at church, it's probably where they're being called to serve. And, and super like even like to say to expand on that part just a second is, you know, like people like, well, they're angry because the color of the carpets wrong. You know, it's like they care about that and they're upset about that. And like, but when you start drilling down, they care about the the color of the carpet because they want to make people feel welcomed. And so they want to create like an environment where people feel welcomed. And so that's really what's bothering. It has really nothing to do with the carpet. That's just the easy thing to blame. And so like they care about people feeling welcomed. That's their people. And then you think, OK, well, who are the people I want to solve or, or who are the people I want to help? What is the problem that they have? And then how can I solve it?

14:20 And that's your, your, your calling. Who are the people that you want to help? What problem do they have? That's your mission. And then what solutions can you bring? That's the that's the work that gets you excited. That's where your passion lies. And so all of those things have nothing to do with a specific job. All of those are things that you get to bring with you to whatever job that you have. Yeah, yeah, absolutely. And not only that, but if you can separate yourself from the title of a job and you focus on those things, it opens up the opportunities for so many different things. So I am not like I'm not drilled down to just this one thing.

15:01 Like for our listeners, it's not just a classroom teacher, it's not just an instructional leader, it's not just a business. Like you can expand that and see yourself in so many different positions. Yeah, and I know you because I've heard you mentioned on some previous episodes, I know like the working Genius was really instrumental in helping me kind of connect some of those dots as well because it gave it a really simple vocabulary because that's where like when people like searching for, like when I start working, looking through job searching advice, I'm like, OK, start with tasks. Start with the things that you enjoy doing. Like if you know a job's going to keep you somewhere for 6 to 8 hours a day, what are some tasks that you could spend 6 to 8 hours a day and not be completely miserable? Like don't worry about industry, don't worry about anything else. If I sat you down, it's like, hey, I need you to do this for six hours.

15:50 What could you do? And so start there and then go from build up on it. Yeah. And this is again, I don't know said this before listeners, but this is a really good time of year to start doing that. I mean, so many of you are going to be thinking about goals for next year anyway. Why not really start thinking about your core values and the things that Justin mentioned? I'm going to have you mention them again here in just a little bit, but, and I probably will include that in the show notes too, just so we have a reference for it. But now is a great time to start thinking about that. It could be in addition to the goals that you're sitting or it could be in lieu of. So earlier you said we've got your, I'm going to, I'm going to, I'm not remembering the very first thing, but it's this and then the three things underneath it. So we got identity first, the identity center, Yeah, identity 1st.

16:46 And then then your overall purpose is just serve other people. And then you're you're calling your missions and your passions. Yeah. That's great. I always think that order is like super important because I think what happens most of the time is we all start with our passions. And so like these are things to get really excited about and there's lots of reasons that doesn't work. You know, for for one, I think some of the things that we're really passionate about or like that we're interested in that we think that our passions, like those aren't, those aren't your jobs. Like, you know, I'm passionate about lots of things. Like I'm passionate about tacos. I don't need to make that my job. Like now if I can get paid to eat tacos, that's a different conversation. We can have that later, but. That's. Not my job and SO. It's really cool to hear you say this is super affirming for me in many ways, but I have a reflective leaders Institute that I I love to take groups of people through it.

17:37 But a few years ago, I was working with a district in, well, it was Columbus City Schools and they had like 100 instructional coaches and they had this instructional coaching program for their district. Well, they knew that the program was getting cut. So you take all of these 100 instructional coaches and now they know, and this was at the beginning of the year, they know that next year they, their positions were being cut. So they would be put into different positions or they would choose to go to, you know, another district. So we're going through this Reflective Leaders Institute and the very first thing we're talking about is identity. And one of the questions was that we really poured into is what is your why?

18:21 And it was so interesting for us to try to get down to beyond what are your position is and what your position tells you your why needs to be because so many of them were saying, well, my passion is to my why is to help students learn. And you heard it over and over again. And I was like, OK, and that's great. But if you step outside of that then and you're no longer working in the school district, let's for whatever reason is your passion still help students learn. Is that still your why? Like, how does this apply to your family? How does it apply to the people at the grocery store that you interact with?

19:02 How does it apply to the people that you are interacting with at your church? Like let's go beyond that. And it was such great work because even Jules, we, Jules and I went through this work together and she said I just, I can't see beyond teaching. But what she ended up coming around was I want people to have fun learning, which applies to anyone, anyone and really any, any position that she decides to take on in the future. Absolutely, because she can take that like then you have to be in an education role. She can still find ways to have fun or help making learning fun for everybody around. So yeah, once you kind of get clear on that, it's so free because it takes all of this expectation that we put on our jobs, it takes it off of that.

19:51 And so all of a sudden this job just becomes a thing that cool. I get to exchange time for money and get rewarded because of the output, the outcomes that I get to help achieve. And it takes all of the expectations like this job's got to fulfill me and give me all of these things that a job can never really give us anyway. Absolutely. So that kind of leads to my next question. Because you were a touring drummer, how did you figure out that that was like, how did you know that that was coming to an end? Like it was, it was time. There's a couple of factors in that, like I told you, like tours and babies. Terrible combo. And so I was touring right after we had our second son or a second kid and the, there's a couple parts of that.

20:34 It was like the, I just wasn't enjoying the time away. Our schedules were like completely bipolar like, so I was doing like Texas touring. So it's like every Thursday, Friday, Saturday, you're out on the road, come home. Sunday, Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, you're home. And so the schedules of those two things, you know, with two small kids under 2 at home, you know, kids are in bed by like 839 o'clock and then we're to bed and wake up, do the next thing. And then on the road shows don't start until ten 11:00 at night. And it's, you know, staying up like 3 in the morning after everything's all set and done. And so that was was really weird, like whiplash of a schedule. But I think one of the things that really broke me is like we were sitting down doing end of the year stuff and the band that I was playing with was based out of Dallas. And so you know, I was in Nacogdoches. So I was driving like 3 hours one way just to get to the band. And I realized if you locked me in my car February 1st and let me out March 1st, that's how much time I spent. Just driving back and forth to the band doesn't count all the time like on the road, all to the shows and stuff like that. I was like literally a month of my life is spent behind the wheel of the car getting to the band, not even playing the shows, just getting there.

21:41 So I was like. Nope. I'm out. Just not worth it at all. Cuz I think music is one of those really weird things. Like you have such a like grandiose picture of what it's going to look like. And then once you're on the road and doing it, you realize like, this is not the, the, the dream that I thought it was. Yeah. And I think that can happen with any position too, though, like what what you envision in your mind because you were putting so much stock into the actual title of the position and that that becomes who you are instead of who you really are. It doesn't it never is going to live up to the expectation that you've created in your head. What what about for someone who is just feeling stuck? Because I know, I mean, I've been there, you've been there. What if they're feeling stuck or they're just unsure about the direction to take?

22:36 What would you say to them? What would you say to someone? So if someone's feeling stuck, I would probably spend a little bit of time just kind of drilling down into what makes what's making them feel stuck and like how they're stuck. Because I think there's lots of different ways that someone can be stuck in their career. You know, it's if, if it's like professionally where they're like, I want to go to other levels and this position is not giving me the opportunities to that that's stuck. It's stuck in, I'm doing this thing, but it's not really what I want to be doing that kind of stuck into this stuck in that zone or you're stuck in a job where it's just you're not working in the right areas. Like they're not working in the genius. And so they're bored. And so stuck as the default like, well, I'm just, I'm not being challenged. I'm not not connected to the work, the outcomes that are that are coming from what I'm doing. So I'm just bored and stuck.

23:20 So I would drill down. I would spend a little bit time really kind of clarifying how you're stuck and then because it makes it a lot easier to move forward once you know what you're coming from. You know, I think it's really hard to move towards something if you're not clear what you're moving away from or why you're moving from it. Yeah. Absolutely. Can I pause you there because it's what you're saying is so great. Please, if you're listening to this and you are feeling like burnt, burned out is a word that I hear a lot or stuck or whatever the word is really target How and why? Because making a move isn't always necessarily the best next thing. Because you could find yourself in exactly the same situation, OK? I call, I call that the country band effect. So again, I told you I'm a slow learner. And so as a drummer, like country music is wonderful. I had got to play it for a year and a half and it was great. But that's not my go to.

24:13 Like that's not what I that's not my, my particular favorite style of music. But I talked myself into playing for so many different country bands because they they paid and I was like, this game's not this bar band's not great. I'll try the next one because surely that'll be different. And like, I talked myself into so many bad gigging situations because I'm not that bright. And I was just like, I'm just gonna make these stupid moves and keep talking myself into the same thing because I was never clear on what it was that I really wanted. I just knew I wanted to play drums. That's at that point was like, I just want to play drums. And so I'll just anybody that'll pay me to play drums, I'll go play. But there was so many gigs, you know, I'd sit sitting there like, why am I here? This is not enjoyable at all. And I was just talking myself into situation after situation.

24:55 That wasn't right. And so, yeah, I would say getting super clear on what you want is is really, really important or not. You're just going to hop from country band to country band, so to speak. Yeah, absolutely. That reminds me as often I talk with people about, you know, where we have people who are position chasers, like high achieving people. I am, I am honestly one of those people. But I just got to a point where it's why am I climbing the ladder? Like what, what is the purpose in climbing the ladder and getting to that next position in that next position in the next position? And we, I'm afraid that we, we fear lateral moves instead of, instead of climbing up the ladder.

25:39 But those lateral moves can be really, really powerful because you're learning and growing no matter where you are on the rungs of the ladder, whether you're, you're climbing up the ladder or you're going across the ladder. So, So what? That reminds me of two. Yeah, no, because I tell people all that all the time, because as a recruiter, a lot of people ask about growth opportunities, right? That's something that everyone's always wanting about. So what does growth look like? And I tell people all the time, there's there's two kinds of growth you need to look at. There's vertical growth and there's horizontal. Vertical growth is climbing up the ladder, getting them more responsibilities, those kinds of things. And there's horizontal growth where you're broadening your skill set and deepening your knowledge base equally equally important. And so finding a place that you have room for both because sometimes what you think is that that vertical move that you want to take is really like horizontal move.

26:26 Or, you know, you find that right ladder. Once you start moving horizontally, like, Oh, this is, you know, you're learning more things like, Oh, this is really where I want to be. You know, that's that's really how I fell into recruiting. I thought HR was like, I want all of the things HRI want. I want all of the HR stuff. And then the more I touched all of the other pieces of HR, I'm like, I want recruiting, like that's where I want to be. And so. But if I never had the chances to grow horizontally, I would have never known that. Yeah. Hey, Before the show you and I were talking about, and I want to bring this up again because I think it's really interesting to talk about, especially based on what we've already discussed. You said maybe I asked you, maybe I asked you in the episode, but no, I didn't.

27:11 This was before the show. We talked about how you, when you're coaching people, you get a high from it, almost like you did when you were on stage. Can you tell more about that? Sure, absolutely. So I think that comes from really being connected or being able to be a part of an, an outcome that matters to me. And so, you know, be like the hive being on stage is, is, is really unique because you know, there's the, the thrill of the lights, the sound, whatever it is, you know, there's people get different excitements for different reasons for it, but there's something really satisfying about that. Like I got to be a part of something bigger, but I got to be a part of a show where people danced, people had a really good time and like I got to be a part of that. That's really, really energizing. And so there was times like there's times when I'm coaching people that like, we, we get off the call and like, I got to be part of something bigger than myself. Like I got to make, we got to be a part of something like, you know, they were mentally dancing because they made a connection or something like that.

28:11 And it was very, very similar. And I realized for, for myself, like it's like, oh, because when we hung up and I realized like that, that feeling was the same. It's like, this is definitely what I'm supposed to be doing, which ties into everything that we're talking about. Like when you're, when you're chasing outcomes that are important to you and that you care about doesn't matter what the industry is, that you get that excited, you know, and I know that for like educators and being really connected to the, the bigger purpose is it feels like that's what I'm all about. But really drilling down into the outcome, specifically into what you're doing that gives you the, all of that, all the good feelings. That's that's where the that's where the fun stuff is. Yeah, it's I have similar, I mean, we talked about this too.

28:52 I have similar experiences because you, as you know, I have always enjoyed being on a stage and it's not about being on stage And, and for lack of a better word, this is terrible word, but it's not about showing off. It's not about me. It is totally about the audience. It's totally about the people who are in the room and the energy that you get from them. And I love that feeling so much. And I chased that feeling and that's what I did when I was singing or performing piano or what, whatever it might be. It's a feeling that I chase, but it's so much more about, Oh my gosh, we had moments together and they were powerful moments. And I think I had that in in teaching too. You know, like, man, you just have those moments and you walk away and you just feel on fire.

29:46 Like if every and it, it fuels you for all of the days moving forward, for all of those tough days, for all this hard days that you think you're not going to get through, you are waiting, or those moments that set you on fire. And I think the the fun part about that too. And that like that relates really well to being in a band or being on stage. It's like those moments that it's, it's never about just like for you either. It's always about those moments of connection. Like, you know, if like you're on stage with like a bandmate and you just, you both hit the right thing and it makes you both go like something smells. Something smells really bad when you just make the stinky face, you know, things are really good. But also like when you have those moments with the audience and stuff like that, where there's that connection was like to whom? Like we're all on that same page for that moment.

30:28 You know, those those kind of moments can follow you like no matter what your professional, your profession is. Like I've got those moments when a hiring manager like really lights up about a candidate that was able to provide them. I've got those moments when I'm talking to a candidate and getting to explain the role a little bit more. And you can just hear like their excitement, like just bubble up, you know, or when I'm talking to somebody and they start talking about something they're excited about, they start talking really fast, like I am now and moving their hands really crazy. Like I do, you know, it's the, it's, it's always so much fun. But it's it's those moments that are with other people that you get to make those connections that make it all even better. Yeah, it's no surprise. My favorite moments are when people you see the light bulbs and they're like, I just, I have clarity now and I'm like, that's what we're going for.

31:15 I love those moments so much. And that's when I know this is the work for me. Absolutely, man. This has been such a good conversation. And I want people to be able to connect with you. So how? How can they do that? Yes, so I'm on LinkedIn. There's not a lot of Justin Pullman's floating around, so and very few of them that have a big grey beard at this point. So yeah, you find me on LinkedIn. That's really the only socials that I use because I'm not cool enough for the other ones. And then or you can just go to Resound Coaching. That's my website. And so, yeah, Resound coaching.com is where they can find me as well. But yeah, they want to just hang out. Linkedin's the is the spot. Yeah, and that will all be in the show notes. And I too, I am only I'm primarily on LinkedIn and I'm kind of cool enough for Instagram. And the only reason I'm on Facebook is because Instagram connects to Facebook.

32:03 So there you have it. I got, I got rid of some of that a long time ago and I was like, I don't understand this anymore and I think I'm out. So yeah, yeah, yeah. There you go. Hey, isn't that a fun card to play sometimes? All right, well, this has been awesome. Justin, thank you so much for coming on. Of course, thanks for having me, this is great. All right everybody, we will catch you in the next episode, which is actually this week. So remember 3 episodes in a row, it's going to be awesome. All right, check you guys later. Bye. Hey listener, I am so honored that you listen to today's episode and I hope you gained something valuable from it.

32:45 I'd also be honored if you did ME3 solid favors. First, subscribe to this show. I've got a lot of great content coming up, and I don't want you to miss any of it. Second, be sure you're following me on social media platforms. You can find me at. Catch up with Casey on LinkedIn or Instagram. And finally, if you were looking to book a dynamic and relatable speaker for your next event, conference, or retreat, I would love to bring a message about how the craft of clarity makes a significant impact on both leadership and life. Until next time, always remember clarity increase capacity.